Baron Sathonyx and 'Master of the Skies' rule when in a non-Hellion Squad

[Baron.roboto]

Hi folks,
Quick question for the DE Codex - I've seen many people on the forum touting the benefits of the Baron as he confers the hit and run rule to any unit he joins, but also they talk about them getting the benefit of re-rolling initiative for Hit and Run and the distance moved...

I've taken this as a given, but reading the entry it sounds like these abilities only apply if the Baron is in a unit of Hellions... whats the consensus on this? I've got a Wraithguard squad with the Baron in it, so I don't want to be inadvertently screwing my opponents over, since it's a very useful ability...

[metal_ead]

It is only Hellion squads that benefit it is pretty obvious. Don't know how you would think otherwise unless english is new to you or something.

[bfmusashi]

You might be able to apply the benefits if the unit joined had Hit and Run, but it does not work with wraithguard.

[Baron.roboto]

Thanks, but English is my first language. As I stated above, I'm seeing several people talk about this ability being conferred on their X unit; being the internet, if you get something wrong there are usually plently of people eagre to hop on the thread and correct you - but no one has so far that I see.

I agree that the rule looks to only apply to Hellions, so I want to make sure that the consensus is that I'm correct/no amendments have been made in FAQs etc. before I go off correcting people myself...

[Baron.roboto]

You might be able to apply the benefits if the unit joined had Hit and Run, but it does not work with wraithguard.

Edit: misread your post :/

[Archon Charybdis]

Just as a fact of 6th ed rules he gives any unit he joins Hit and Run by virtue of having it himself. As far as whether or not they're eligible for re-rolling the I test and movement distance, you could maybe make an argument along the lines that the Baron himself can do those things even if the rest of the squad can't, and especially in the case of the I test being done on his I, that wouldn't seem unreasonable to me.

[metal_ead]

Master Of The Skies however specifically says Hellions benifit. That is all.

[Archon Charybdis]

Master Of The Skies however specifically says Hellions benifit. That is all.

Not quite, it says "Sathonyx and any unit of Hellions he joins" benefit. The Baron still benefits regardless of whether he's joined to Hellions. Considering he's the only model in this theoretical Wraithguard unit that actually has Hit and Run-- and he benefits from Master of the Skies-- it's not unreasonable to assume the rest of the squad indirectly benefits too. I'm not saying it's an airtight argument, but the situation isn't exactly clear, could probably use an FAQ.

[Nabterayl]

I think that what people are talking about would work. Sathonyx unquestionably allows any unit he joins to benefit from Hit & Run. Sathonyx himself has Hit & Run listed in his special rules. As Hit & Run says, "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule that is locked in combat can choose to leave close combat at the end of any Assault phase. If the unit wishes to do so, it must take an Initiative test." It is no longer necessary that every model in the unit have Hit & Run; one is enough.

The thornier question is whether Sathonyx confers his re-roll. Master of the Skies says, "Sathonyx and any unit of Hellions he joins ... when using their Hit and Run rule, they can re-roll both the Initiative test and the dice to determine how far they move." So, are we to read "their Hit and Run rule" and "they can re-roll" as restricting those benefits to "Sathonyx and any unit of Hellions he joins," as a collective noun?

I think we must say no. To say yes would be to assert that Baron Sathonyx, on his own, cannot re-roll the Initiative test or the dice to determine how far he moves. I think we all agree that Sathonyx by himself can do that. But in order to agree about that, we must also agree that "Sathonyx and any unit of Hellions he joins" is not a collective noun but a regular compound subject - which is the default reading anyway. So the codex says that Sathonyx, when using his Hit & Run rule, can re-roll the Initiative test and the distance dice, as can Sathonyx plus a unit of Hellions he has joined. The first is enough, though. In 6th edition, Sathonyx and any unit he has joined can benefit from Hit & Run, can re-roll the Hit & Run Initiative test, and can re-roll the Hit & Run distance dice.

[Baron.roboto]

That's a good point Nabterayl, I can see the logic in there. Are there any other rules where we can use as an example of applying a model-only ability for a unit? Hit and Run will clearly apply to the unit, but while you would use the Baron's initiative for the initiate test, can you also use his model-specific rules on behalf of the unit? I'm struggling to think of any precisent that's previously been set...