Overwatch with Rapid fire weapons

[krispy]

I was thinking about this and wanted to hear some comments from you guys

as we all know when a charge is declared and you get to fire overwatch

can you fire 2 shots with each (rapid fire weapon) bolter or just one?

it says elsewhere that IF you fire a rapid fire weapon then you cannot charge... this is what im confused with (as a marine player), because you arent asssaulting you should be able to fire rapid fire as long as the enemy is withing 12 inches... so can you only fire one shot(with your bolt pistol) or can you rapid fire your bolters at charging enemies?

thanks for any answers!

[Demonus]

If someone charges you, and they are in rapid fire range for any of your models, those models get to fire 2 snap shots. As you are not "assaulting" anyone, it doesnt factor in to you fighting in the upcoming close combat phase.

[Wolfshade]

As Demonus says:

If you are being charged, you may fire 2 snap shots. Similiarly, any heavy weapons in your squad may be able to fire as long as they can fire snap shots.

[krittoris]

dont look to much into the rule. its just a shooting phase for the unit at BS1.

shoot as you normally would only difference is it is at BS1. so yes you may rapid fire.

exceptions: you may not fire weapons that use blast markers and flamer template weapons cause d3 hits.

wounding is as normal.

[Necron_Lord]

I was thinking about this as well. Is rapid fire range determined when the charge is declared? I'm thinking "yes". But in the Wall of Death section in the BRB (p. 52) it says don't worry about comparing the length of the template with the distance to the enemy. This can make a big difference for the number of overwatch shots a unit can make for large units like Guardsmen blobs and larger Necron Warrior units. Do you measure Rapid Fire range at the Overwatch portion of the charge sub-phase to determine the number of double fire overwatch shots for models with rapid fire weapons?

[mathhammer]

I was thinking about this as well. Is rapid fire range determined when the charge is declared? I'm thinking "yes". But in the Wall of Death section in the BRB (p. 52) it says don't worry about comparing the length of the template with the distance to the enemy. This can make a big difference for the number of overwatch shots a unit can make for large units like Guardsmen blobs and larger Necron Warrior units. Do you measure Rapid Fire range at the Overwatch portion of the charge sub-phase to determine the number of double fire overwatch shots for models with rapid fire weapons?

template weapons are the exception,

for other weapons range, visibility to the target, targets cover save is all determined when the overwatch occurs. In fact the charging unit can choose to go to ground to avoid the overwatch shots.

[pgarfunkle]

I would have thought in most cases charges would be in rapid fire range for a boltgun as the max you can roll on 2d6 is 12, I can't remember right now if anything gets to charge using more than 2d6.

[mathhammer]

you could have 3 members inside the 12" range while the rest is out, a difference of say 7 shots or so.
To a tyranid that is even more dead gaunts.

[Mr Mystery]

Measure when they declare the charge. Anyone in rapid fire range can do so.

Remember, you over watch regardless of whether they complete the charge or not.

[krispy]

Hi all

thanks for the replies, i now realize that i have missed out on some shooting, as i could / should have been rapid firing instead of single shooting with the bolters :(

thanks for helping out with my question

/k

[henrythesecond]

...and they are in rapid fire range for any of your models, those models get to fire 2 snap shots...

I'm a pedant. I can't help it. So here goes... there's no such thing as 'rapid fire range'. Rapid Fire is a weapon type that has specific abilities, which include firing multiple shots at half range or less. But firing those multiple shots isn't 'rapid firing'.

I guess you could say whenever you shoot a Rapid Fire weapon you are are within 'rapid fire range' of the particular weapon you're 'rapid firing', but it's incorrect to restrict it to shots under half range specifically.

It's not just Demonus I'm singling out here btw, it happens A LOT on 40k forums.

Again, I apologise for my pedantic nature, please feel free to give me a stiff ignoring.

Peace.

[Nabterayl]

The same thing bothers me, actually. I would prefer it if people said "half range," but at least the convention is widespread enough that its clear what people mean.

[Demonus]

Sorry. We say Rapid Fire range, and know what is meant by it. You can change it to half range if it makes you feel better :)

[Mr Mystery]

Rapid Fire Range means to be within half your weapons maximum range. Therefore, it is absolutely accurate in 6th Edition.

Now, 3rd, 4th and 5th, yes you'd have an issue!

[Magpie]

If shooting 2 shots rather than 1 isn't rapid firing then what is it?

Rapid fire is firing rapidly and the range at which you can accurately fire rapidly is the Rapid Fire range?

[White Tiger88]

If shooting 2 shots rather than 1 isn't rapid firing then what is it?

Rapid fire is firing rapidly and the range at which you can accurately fire rapidly is the Rapid Fire range?

Well to put things simply....

12" range fire twice.

[Magpie]

Well to put things simply....

12" range fire twice.

Or simpler still, "Rapid Fire Range fire twice" because it isn't 12" any more. Hotshot Lasgun is 9 and Tau Pulse Rifle is 15"

[Shotgun Justice]

I know that all of the regular shooting rules apply (with exceptions such as wall of death) when firing overwatch but if a model with a flamer is at the rear of its' unit, with its' own models covering all angles of flamer template positioning, when the unit is assaulted from the front, can you fire wall of death?

[Nabterayl]

I know that all of the regular shooting rules apply (with exceptions such as wall of death) when firing overwatch but if a model with a flamer is at the rear of its' unit, with its' own models covering all angles of flamer template positioning, when the unit is assaulted from the front, can you fire wall of death?
It appears so to me. The restriction on flamers firing from the rear is just a consequence of the template placement rules, and Wall of Death seems to tell us not to place the template at all. Perhaps in the increased confusion that 6th edition is convinced precedes close combat the flamer-armed models find small gaps in the ranks to fire through.

[Shotgun Justice]

That would be my inclination too, since the template is not used.

[jgebi]

well I would go with more. "The crazy pyromaniac with the flamer charges through his own ranks to bring his holy flamer to the front of the rank and shield his battle brothers from the on coming assault" just sounds like something one would do

[Daemonette666]

template weapons are the exception,

for other weapons range, visibility to the target, targets cover save is all determined when the overwatch occurs. In fact the charging unit can choose to go to ground to avoid the overwatch shots.

It would be silly to go to ground to get the save form the overwatch fire, unless you were just using a cheap unit to absorb sed overwatch fire, just to allow another unit to assault in. Any unit going to ground when declaring a charge, automatically fails the charge.

[Shotgun Justice]

It would be silly to go to ground to get the save form the overwatch fire, unless you were just using a cheap unit to absorb sed overwatch fire, just to allow another unit to assault in. Any unit going to ground when declaring a charge, automatically fails the charge.

It's very useful to absorb overwatch as you've described but when a IG command squad manages 4 AP2 wounds against your terminators hugging the dirt becomes very appealing.

[Magpie]

It would be silly to go to ground to get the save form the overwatch fire, unless you were just using a cheap unit to absorb sed overwatch fire, just to allow another unit to assault in. Any unit going to ground when declaring a charge, automatically fails the charge.

It's actually a very good idea.

I use an Assassin with Stealth to charge, attract the overwatch then hit the dirt for a 2+ cover save (GtG and Stealth) if you're in a ruin. Then a squad can just attack without any worries !