Cover Save interveaning models

[mathhammer]

If I have a line of gaunts in front of a Tervigon does the Tervigon get a cover save.
a) The cover save section talks about intervening units granting a +5 cover save.
b) Then refers to the terrain cover save section (not clear where it says to refer to).
c) The possibility of the section saying 25% coverage needed.

I'm leaning towards yes since the rule says "partial" instead of "25%".

[Sly]

If the shots are going OVER the unit, then you don't automatically gain a cover save. The unit that is in between the shooting unit and the target needs to be at least 25% as tall as the target unit in order to provide cover (against a shooting unit at the same level... a Flyer may have a much better firing angle).

What the rule means is that you cannot fire BETWEEN models of a unit and claim that the open space between the models is treated as an open fire lane. A unit provides cover both directly with the physical presence of its models, and also with the area in between its models being considered as blocked off for purposes of providing cover. It's not true LOS-blocking because you are allowed to shoot through those spaces, but you must treat the area as if you're firing through cover.

So, basically, take the intervening unit, change it into a solid wall, and see if it covers 25% or more of the target unit.

[Nabterayl]

So, basically, take the intervening unit, change it into a solid wall, and see if it covers 25% or more of the target unit.
Absolutely correct.

[Anakzar]

There is nothing about having to be 25%. If the firing model is a short infantry model on the same level as the intervening models then thier target will get the +5 cover. If it is a taller model and far enough back or the intervening models are too far forwards its very likly that the firing model will be able to see all of the target without looking through the intervening models, and no +5 cover will be allowed.

Simularly if the firing models are higher and looking down then its more than likly they will be able to see all of the target.

The Key words are "partially hidden" No 25% is used anywhere in the intervening models rule.

[Nabterayl]

The question is what the rulebook means by "Note that this [the cover save for intervening models] does not apply if the shots go over the unit rather than through it" on page 18. If the target is 4" tall and the intervening units are all 1" tall, how are we to tell whether the shot goes over or through the intervening unit? What if the target model is 1.1" tall? What if it's 12" tall?

I can think of two reasonable ways to interpret this. One is to say that if the shot could go through an intervening unit, then it does. Thus, a target model that is 12" tall is obscured by an intervening unit of 1" tall models because it might. Two is to say that if at least 25% of the paths the shot could go take go through an intervening unit, then it does. Thus, a target model that is 12" tall is not obscured by an intervening unit of 1" tall models, but a target model 4" tall is.

Of the two, I favor the second. Page 18 seems to define "partially hidden" as "25% obscured" earlier in the page, so I see no reason to believe that the meaning changes without warning.

[mathhammer]

The question is what the rulebook means by "Note that this [the cover save for intervening models] does not apply if the shots go over the unit rather than through it" on page 18. If the target is 4" tall and the intervening units are all 1" tall, how are we to tell whether the shot goes over or through the intervening unit? What if the target model is 1.1" tall? What if it's 12" tall?


The general answer for this, which was the standard in 5th, is a wall is formed by the intervening models.
Then if the path from the eye's of the shooting model to any point on the target model passes through that wall then your shooting through an intervening squad. Usually this is simplified to lines from the shooting model's eyes to the front of the base of the target model.

[Nabterayl]

True, but in 5th edition the merest scintilla of the target had to be obscured. So long as the left pinkie toe of the target was obscured, it was entitled to a cover save. That's no longer the basic rule.