Valkyries & Space Marines

[Southzen]

Maybe this is covered somewhere and I missed it. I am new to gaming and I don't play often. I picked up a Valkyrie a while back just for the purpose of I thought it was a great model, but I have recently decided to put it together. Before I started I wanted to clarify, can a Valkyrie be used as a Space Marine transport and support vehicle? If so, what is the limit on the load out for Space Marines, can it transport Terminators, bikes, etc.

[Lord Azaghul]

Maybe this is covered somewhere and I missed it. I am new to gaming and I don't play often. I picked up a Valkyrie a while back just for the purpose of I thought it was a great model, but I have recently decided to put it together. Before I started I wanted to clarify, can a Valkyrie be used as a Space Marine transport and support vehicle? If so, what is the limit on the load out for Space Marines, can it transport Terminators, bikes, etc.

Absolutely Not! SM have no equivant vehicle, its like guard trying to use drop pods...don't really work.
The only way to get any sort of power armour critter in a valkrey is to take sisters of battle or the inquision as allies.

[Nabterayl]

The short answer to your question is no, the Valkyrie is not a space marine vehicle. The long answer is yes, but only under very specific circumstances.

The Valkyrie is an Imperial Guard (well, Imperial Navy) vehicle. It appears in two sets of rules. One is the Imperial Guard codex. The other is Imperial Armour Volume 2.

The Imperial Guard codex is the only source of rules that is likely to be accepted at every gaming venue you play at. As the name suggests, it provides the rules for playing an Imperial Guard army, and included in those rules are the rules for the Valkyrie. The IG codex has no provisions for taking allied space marines, so in a normal game of 40K (see below for two exceptions) there is no way to get space marines into a Valkyrie through the IG codex.

IA2 provides supplemental vehicle rules for space marine, daemonhunter, and witch hunter vehicles. The Valkyrie is included in IA2 as a dedicated transport for inquisitorial storm troopers in a daemonhunter or witch hunter army, and the DH and WH codices do include rules for taking allied space marines (or for using a space marine army with allied daemonhunters or witch hunters). Hence, as long as your gaming group is willing to allow the use of IA2, you could run a space marine army that included allied WH or DH storm troopers, and include the Valkyrie in your army list as a dedicated transport for the storm trooper squad. During the game, you could then have space marines embark on the Valkyrie, leaving the storm troopers to go it on foot.

How likely is your gaming group to allow the use of IA2? Only you can answer that question. Some players are of the opinion that the Imperial Armour books should not be used at all; others are of the opinion that they should not be used in competitive play. Usually these opinions are based on the perception that Imperial Armour rules are unfairly powerful (for their points cost, at least) compared to "regular" codex rules. I am not personally of that opinion, but of course, what matters is the opinion of your gaming group.

IA2 in conjunction with allied space marines or allied DH/WH storm troopers is the only way to get space marines into a Valkyrie in a "normal" game of 40K. There are, however, three others:

In normal games of 40K, players can agree on a maximum number of "detachments" per player. Ordinarily, this number is one, but players are free to agree to any number they wish. A "detachment" is essentially a self-contained army on the tabletop, and must obey all the rules of the Force Organization Chart (e.g., it must include at least one HQ and two Troops choices). If your group is willing to let you play with two detachments, and if your group is willing to let your two detachments interact with each other as if they were part of the same army, then you could take a detachment of space marines and a second, small detachment of Imperial Guard that included the minimum one HQ and two Troops choices, and a number of Valkyries. This is the first alternative option.

In Apocalypse, players can build their force from any codex or combination of codices, ignoring the restrictions of the Force Organization Chart. Thus, in an Apocalypse game, you could build a force that included space marines and Valkyries, even without any HQ or Troops choices from the Imperial Guard codex. This is the second alternative option.

The third alternative option is to ask your gaming group for permission to break the rules and let you take a Valkyrie in a space marine army. This is contradictory to the fluff* and to the rules, but you are always "allowed" to break the rules as long as all players agree. After all, it's your gaming time, they're your miniatures - as long as you're having fun, the GW rules police are not going to descend upon your game from their black helicopters and tell you how to play. This is, obviously, not a solution you should count on being able to use unless you're able to clear it with your fellow players ahead of time.

Assuming you find a way to get space marines and Valkyries into the same army, the Valkyrie obeys the normal rules for transports, meaning it can only transport a single unit of infantry up to its transport capacity, plus the added restriction (included in the Imperial Guard FAQ) that it cannot transport terminators.

Thus, the Valkyrie can transport twelve space marines in power armor, so long as they are all part of the same unit. It cannot transport terminators, according to the FAQ restriction. It cannot transport bikes, dreadnoughts, space marines with jump packs, or Thunderfire cannons, as none of those units are infantry.

* Fluff-wise, space marines rely on Thunderhawk Gunships and Thunderhawk Transporters to achieve air mobility for their infantry and vehicles, respectively. Models for the Thunderhawk (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/SPACE_MARINE_AIRCRAFT.html) are produced by GW's subsidiary, Forge World, and rules are found in the Apocalypse and Imperial Armour Apocalypse books, respectively. Thunderhawks are quite a bit larger than Valkyries and appreciably more capable, as well - so much so that most players will allow them only in Apocalypse (and for game balance purposes I would discourage you from trying to include them in non-Apocalypse games). Fluff-wise, a space marine commander would be highly unlikely to borrow Valkyries from the Imperial Navy, since the strike cruiser or battle barge that he arrived in would come with its own complement of Thunderhawks that already belong to his chapter and are already at his disposal.

[Southzen]

Thanks for the help and the explanation. It helps greatly.

[Capn Stoogey]

Besides, keep your eyes open, I have a feeling us Marines will be getting our own light flying transport from Forgeworld sometime (hopefully) in the not too distant future...

[Rapture]

Maybe this is covered somewhere and I missed it. I am new to gaming and I don't play often. I picked up a Valkyrie a while back just for the purpose of I thought it was a great model, but I have recently decided to put it together. Before I started I wanted to clarify, can a Valkyrie be used as a Space Marine transport and support vehicle? If so, what is the limit on the load out for Space Marines, can it transport Terminators, bikes, etc.

I think it is a great vehicle and would always be willing to play against one. However, the rules clearly say no.

I would talk to the people you game against and come up with a compromise. Adjust the point cost or only let five marines use it as a transport. i am not so sure about transporting terminators though. They are awfully large and heavy.

[Nabterayl]

Besides, keep your eyes open, I have a feeling us Marines will be getting our own flying transport from Forgeworld sometime (hopefully) in the not too distant future...

Uh, you mean other than these (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/SPACE_MARINE_AIRCRAFT.html)? 'Cause those have been the official and only space marine flying transports, fluff-wise, since, like, forever.

[L192837465]

Theres a simple way to do it, but it's with grey knights.

Take a Deamonhunters INQ and use guard as your ally. Take 1 unit (or more) of Grey knight marines, and 1 (or more) Valkyrie and voile!

Now heres the rub: Can in the example above, a unit of Grey Knight Terminators use a Valkyrie. Technically, it states no where they CANNOT, but it would be really funny.

[Lerra]

There is a GW FAQ somewhere that says that Terminators can't ride in a Valkyrie. I'll see if I can find it.

[Nabterayl]

That would be the Imperial Guard FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470041a_FAQ_ImperialGuard_2009.pdf), as I mentioned above.

[DarkLink]

Right, the IG FAQ disallows Terminators from riding in Valkries.

I doubt it's a weight issue. Even if each Terminator weights half a ton, a modern Blackhawk helicopter could carry a squad of 5 Terminators easily. The problem is getting them to fit.

Heck, even if each Terminator weighed 2000lbs (~900 kilos)*, a UH-60 Blackhawk could still probably carry 5, though that would be reaching the performance limits.

*I doubt Terminator armor weights nearly this much. A Space Marine probably weights about 300-350lbs (~145 kilos), and the Terminator armor would have to be made out of pure lead to make up the other 1700lbs.

Even if the Terminators weight more than that, Valkries probably have a much larger payload capacity than a Blackhawk helicopter. Technology in the 41st millennium is much more advanced than it is today, and its not like 40k follows the normal laws of physics anyways.

[Nabterayl]

Technology in the 41st millennium is much more advanced than it is today, and its not like 40k follows the normal laws of physics anyways.
This almost made me snarf my Jamba Juice. I know that you're right, in some cases, but I'm not sure Imperial suborbital vehicles are a very good example of 40K's high technology :p

Regardless, I agree with you about the fit.

[Capn Stoogey]

Uh, you mean other than these (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/SPACE_MARINE_AIRCRAFT.html)? 'Cause those have been the official and only space marine flying transports, fluff-wise, since, like, forever.

There were shots from a games day or similar event of an early FW prototype that looked like a heavy land speeder.

You'll notice I said "might be getting in the future", not "have had for ages".

So, Uh, yes, actually I did mean other than, like, those.