Daemon's Warp Storm table & Flyers

[JMichael]

Is there any reason why a result on the Warp Storm table can't hit a Flyer?
Some of them use a blast templates, and it seems obvious that they can't hit Flyers.
But what about the results that 'auto hit'.
Several state that 'unit suffers D6 Str6 hits. Vehicles are hit on their side armor.

Btw, here is the quote from the most recent rulebook FAQ (note that it states 'weapons' that auto hit)

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any
weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically –
interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous
Creatures? (p13)

A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas.

[modelguyicmt]

I'm not much of a grognard, but it reads pretty clearly, if it doesn't need a to-hit, it can't hit flyers. And even if it does, it only hits if it's a Snap Shot.

[JMichael]

It does specify weapon and psychic powers, whereas Warp Storm is an effect.

[modelguyicmt]

"Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit, cannot target them."

Like I said, it's stated quite clearly.

[Nabterayl]

It does specify weapon and psychic powers, whereas Warp Storm is an effect.
The question does, but the answer specifies "attacks." The question is, are the effects in question attacks? If so, they're affected by that FAQ.

The term "attack" is never defined, but I think the FAQ indicates, by saying that attacks "includes" weapons and psychic powers, that the term is broader than weapons and psychic powers. I'd be inclined to say that it does damage, and therefore is an attack, and therefore does not affect Zooming flyers.

[Sly]

The attacks are, well, attacks. Attacks include weapons and psychic powers, but could also include Ramming and any other action where one unit is doing damage to another unit.
The FAQ clearly says that all attacks that auto-hit will not hit Flyers or FMCs. In addition to weapons and psychic attacks, this should include other effects such as:
The Warp Storm Table
The Lord of Lightning
Explosions
Special explosions such as the Tzeentch concussive Staff
The Black Mace

[Lord Krungharr]

While I think it probably would be FAQd that the Warp Storm would not effect Zooming nor Swooping models, as written I would say that it does affect them. Attack implies a deliberate attempt to do damage by one player upon another. The Warp Storm table is just something that occurs beyond the control of any player.

So we do indeed need a GW ruling on that one, and on what 'attack' means.

From a fluffy perspective, which may or may not influence how one might write rules, Warp lightning and powers would not care about at what altitude or speed something is moving. It keys in on the minds of the models....and therefore Tau and Necrons should be less apt to be damaged by it as they have little to no psychic presence in the Warp.

[Caitsidhe]

I suspect they will get around to doing a Faq/Errata about the Warpstorm allowing it to hit Flyers, but for now via RAW it cannot.

[Xaric]

Ok my take on this it does not need a FAQ and I will explain why.

Reason number one the Faq for another units ability does not affect another units ability based on a comparisons due to the FAQ is for the unit that is in question so I see people saying "but the stormlord has the same ruling" does not apply...

Reason number two you roll on the warpstorm per shooting phase to see what effect it does then you roll 6 to see if it hits there for it is not a auto hit. Auto hit would imply it does not need a BS roll(warpstorm may not have a BS roll because its rolling from a table but still needs to roll to hit) to hit the target so for example beam weapons, blast weapons (scatter only ever uses bs to redirect and can be ignore if you roll the target) this means the two results that can hit flying units are 6 and 8 due to they are single target wounds and not blast templates.

Regarding blast templates on flyers you still place and scatter on the models location but these can't hit flyers.

Roll 11 not sure what it does to grey knights Vehicles due to they are psykers i am assuming it just takes the person controling the vehicle and possessis them.

Before people correct me in what the big rule book said please remeber rules in the codex if it conflicts with a rule in the big rule book the rules in the codex take precidence unless FAQ or otherwise.

[Asuryan]

First BRB FAQ:

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically
when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.


you roll on the warpstorm per shooting phase to see what effect it does then you roll 6 to see if it hits there for it is not a auto hit. Auto hit would imply it does not need a BS roll(warpstorm may not have a BS roll because its rolling from a table but still needs to roll to hit)

Second you don't roll to hit for the warpstorm you roll to see which units are effected, and in regards with the OP's faq you wouldn't be able to target the FMC or Flyers but the warpstorm doesn't target so it would effect and auto hit said flyers and FMC's.

[Gleipnir]

What Asuryan is saying is correct the FAQ the original poster is referencing is about psychic shooting attacks and how they would effect a flyer as Snap shots, not how would automatically generated effects impact a hard to hit flyer.

The Blast Template of a Warp Storm is not generated as a shooting attack(unlike psychic attacks) thus the Zooming/Swooping Flyer does not gain Hard to Hit versus those attacks meaning they are not treated as Snap Shots additionally the Warp Storm like many environmental effect tables are not a weapon using a template, or blast marker so are additionally not excluded as such, meaning templates and Blast markers behave normally, a flyer that falls under the template is impacted as any other model. FYI a turn after roll for a scattering persistent Vortex effect would also be treated the same way, though not the turn it is fired(scatters at the start of a next player turn, thus not resolved as a shooting attack)

Basically Zooming/Swooping immune to assaults, and shooting attacks without Skyfire are treated as Snap Shots, the rules for Snap Shots prevent Blast, Template or Beam style auto hit attacks from being available as Snap Shots. Additionally weapons with the Blast and Template in their profile cannot hit Swooping or Zooming. If its not a weapon and its not a shooting attack, its fair game.

[Urtyfang]

The attacks are, well, attacks. Attacks include weapons and psychic powers, but could also include Ramming and any other action where one unit is doing damage to another unit.
The FAQ clearly says that all attacks that auto-hit will not hit Flyers or FMCs. In addition to weapons and psychic attacks, this should include other effects such as:
The Warp Storm Table
The Lord of Lightning
Explosions
Special explosions such as the Tzeentch concussive Staff
The Black Mace

but the lord of the storm got a faq to say it does it fliers.

[Asuryan]

The Warp Storm Table
The Lord of Lightning
Explosions
Special explosions such as the Tzeentch concussive Staff
The Black Mace

Not 100% sure on what the tzeentch concussive staff rules are, but for all the others they effect the surroundings and do not target the units so they are not subject to the ruling of the OP's faq but are subjected to my first post's faq. so all of those auto hit and auto hit with snap shots.