Overpriced Units? What do you think?

[Lindargo]

Every codex has one, whether its IG Storm-troopers or SM Legion of the Damned.
So what do you think are the most overpriced units and why?
Lindargo,

[Lindargo]

Personally, and Possessed annoy me. Possessed would be awesome if they were a little cheaper, and the models are great.
Lindargo,
(sorry i forgot to say my opinion earlier)

[Lord Azaghul]

Stormtroopers: 16pts really? Shorter range, They still need a 5+ to wound almost anything. Only has 4+AS, I can take 10 of them or a Demolisher...let me think. I think if they were around 14 I'd take 'em.
Ogryn: 3 for the price of tank, and lower leadership? Nope!
HW Squads: I still love them, and take them every game, but 60pts base for 3 easy insta-kill models - they really should have been 50pts

[the one]

Ha-ha-ha-ha! I'm gonna take what everyone ussally says on these things and say: Arco-flaggelents, Penitant Engine and Necron Pariahs.

[Cryl]

Vanguard vets... by the time you take a decent sized unit and give them jump packs and anything useful (power weapons etc) they're pushing 400 to 500 points. So not worth it.

[Herald of Nurgle]

All the chaos units, except Plague Marines, and Obliterators.

[Chumbalaya]

Flash Gitz, Tankbustas, Burna Boyz, Deff Koptaz, Zzap Guns.

Dark Angels everything.

[mstingray]

I would agree with possessed but also I think Noise marines are expensive, especially after you give them anything decent (blastmasters/sonic blasters)

[Brosef Stalin]

Maybe Terminators? I dunno. Maybe I just stink at using them.

[Archon]

For me it is not a unit - it is a weapon: The Blastmaster!

Even improoved it is horrible expensive. Think about Havos - Lascannons are very expensiv if bought for Havocs. The BM is 5 Pts. above and you can buy only one per squad. A Rhino is cheaper.

And Chaos again: Spawns. I loved theese the new plastik spawn. But a unit the runs headlong into a cybot or dies because it it fearless? For what price? Argh! Make them 20 and they´ll be fun.

I also agree with the possessed - much to much points for the random goodies. A shame for the lovely plastic kit.

[imperialsavant]

:rolleyes: Grey Knights! By the Emperors Teeth they are really only Space Marines yet you pay through the nose for them. A close second would be Penitant Engines. way too weak for their points. :eek:

[Sam]

:rolleyes: Grey Knights! By the Emperors Teeth they are really only Space Marines yet you pay through the nose for them. A close second would be Penitant Engines. way too weak for their points. :eek:

They are not only Space Marines. They are Space Marines with WS5 S6 across the board, they ignore psychic powers used against them on a 5+, you have to roll to see them (average distance 30-33 inches, really cuts down on the amount of heavy weapon fire you take) and they all have storm bolters.

Edit: Right, I even forgot they were fearless.

[Sam]

Leman Russ Punisher. A Demolisher is cheaper and more versitile, an Executioner is slightly more expensive and why more effective at killing anything the Punisher can (yes, even horde infantry).

Lictor. Ridiculously fragile, has to deep strike into area terrain (yay dangerous terrain!), and only has 4 attacks on the charge (loses to any infantry, even IG). Oh, and it lacks fleet.

Possessed (though really my only issue with them is the lack of grenades).

[DarkLink]

All the chaos units, except Plague Marines, and Obliterators.

And basic CSM's, and Daemon Princes, they're both plenty cheap for what you get.





Basic Grey Knights are overpriced, since their special rules are worthless. I can't remember the last time my opponent failed a Shrouding test, Rites almost doesn't work on anything anymore, True Grit has been surpassed by everyone getting a bolter, bolt pistol and ccw. Grey Knights have become WS5, Str6 Fearless marines with storm bolters. Which is good, but not worth 25pts per model (especially compared to Plague Marines and the like).

[Sam]

And basic CSM's, and Daemon Princes, they're both plenty cheap for what you get.





Basic Grey Knights are overpriced, since their special rules are worthless. I can't remember the last time my opponent failed a Shrouding test, Rites almost doesn't work on anything anymore, True Grit has been surpassed by everyone getting a bolter, bolt pistol and ccw. Grey Knights have become WS5, Str6 Fearless marines with storm bolters. Which is good, but not worth 25pts per model (especially compared to Plague Marines and the like).

Is 6-7 points really that bad to gain +1 WS, +2S, Fearless and the Shrouding (yes, Shrouding is next to useless against short range fire, but that's not what it is for)?
(15-16 for standard marine, 3 to upgrade to storm bolter - 18-19 per model, so 6-7 points for all the other stuff)

There is a difference between being fragile and sucking.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

The Vanguard veteran cost is ridiculous. When you consider every other marine book has an equivalent with a lower cost it is pretty insane. In the space wolves codex I can field 10 Wolf Guard all with power weapons @ 260 points; For vanguard the same wargear loadout would cost 100 points more and is no different, except that Wolf Guard have BETTER special rules and can also carry other kit like Terminator armor.

The WGs have their own fault, though...25 pts/model for jump packs...ouch.

The entire marine HQ section is either undercosted or overcosted, none of them feels right at all. Khan is the cheapest and grants the ability for everything to outflank...Calgar is the most expensive and does...nothing, really. ???


Is 6-7 points really that bad to gain +1 WS, +2S, Fearless and the Shrouding (yes, Shrouding is next to useless against short range fire, but that's not what it is for)?
(15-16 for standard marine, 3 to upgrade to storm bolter - 18-19 per model, so 6-7 points for all the other stuff)

There is a difference between being fragile and sucking. Grey Knights should be neither fragile nor sucky. They should be god-like troops.

[MarshalAdamar]

Grey Knights should be neither fragile nor sucky. They should be god-like troops.

Then they should have god-like cost or they would be broken. And really they are better than any other MEQ basic troops choice AND if you make them fast attack they can deep strike!

WS:5 S:6 3+ armor with built in storm bolters that can deep strike

That’s pretty god like

[Kahoolin]

IG priests. I can't believe they dropped him to one wound and he still costs the same points.

[BuFFo]

Ogryns.... Pure crap. Its nice when 200+ point unit cannot even kill a single marine in combat reliably.

Scourges... 200 points for heavy weapons that cannot fire, on 5 models that are as weak as a rank and file IG trooper....

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Then they should have god-like cost or they would be broken. And really they are better than any other MEQ basic troops choice AND if you make them fast attack they can deep strike!

WS:5 S:6 3+ armor with built in storm bolters that can deep strike

That’s pretty god like Sorry, but as they are, they are at best an 18 point model.

They have less attacks than most other elite MEQs, they have no invuls, they have no transport options either. They are still initiative 4 so most MCs eat them (aren't these guys supposed to fight giant daemons?), the storm bolter is...still just a bolter, too. It is awesome to be able to move and shoot 24", but it is still no more damage than they'd be doing up at 12", and with their awesome CC weapons the idea that you are supposed to dance around the enemy with storm bolters the whole game and then CC his leftovers is foolish. They also can never get a bonus attack for charging -- the only models in the game with this restriction, due to old True Grit rules.

They have a complete lack of heavy weapons, and their standard weapon options are also overcosted (the psycannon that negates one save but gives all the others is WAY too expensive, that thing is at best 15 points).

The mighty Grey Knights, see how they mercilessly defeat implacable foes such as the lone Imperial Guard squad, or the mighty close combat masters, the Tau fire warriors!

These guys would be much better off if they were costed to fit 20 more GKs in every DH list out there, but as they are right now...they either need to get way better or way cheaper.

[slxiii]

Ogryns.... Pure crap. Its nice when 200+ point unit cannot even kill a single marine in combat reliably.

Scourges... 200 points for heavy weapons that cannot fire, on 5 models that are as weak as a rank and file IG trooper....

ogryns...wha?
5 ogryns have 21 attacks on the charge, hit marines on 4s and wound on 3s...... that's reliably killing something to me. If the marine charges, the ogryns hit back with 16 s5 hits, still very impressive

[Sam]

Sorry, but as they are, they are at best an 18 point model.

That would only cover the cost of a basic marine and a storm bolter. What about the WS and S improvements? Should they be disregarded when determining the point cost? How about fearless, is that worthless, too?

[Sam]

ogryns...wha?
5 ogryns have 21 attacks on the charge, hit marines on 4s and wound on 3s...... that's reliably killing something to me. If the marine charges, the ogryns hit back with 16 s5 hits, still very impressive

On the charge they wound on 2s, actually. Ogryns are overpriced, though, especially compared to the other units they are competing with for that elite slot.

[DarkLink]

Then they should have god-like cost or they would be broken. And really they are better than any other MEQ basic troops choice AND if you make them fast attack they can deep strike!

WS:5 S:6 3+ armor with built in storm bolters that can deep strike

That’s pretty god like

But if you make them fast attack, they can't score. It simply isn't a viable option. Because of how expensive they are, you're lucky to get more than the minimum of two troops in any game at 1500pts or less.

Compared to Chaos Cult troops, Grey Knights are way overpriced. As it stands, if you gave them frag grenades and upgraded True Grit to allow charge bonuses, they'd be worth about 22pts each. They don't have frag grenades and no charge bonuses, though, and they're 25pts each.

There's a reason why Daemonhunters have been at the very bottom of the games power level ever since they came out. Necrons only just recently joined them.


I'd be willing to bet money that I could count the number of times I've ever had an opponent fail Shrouding on my fingers, for the entire time I've played Grey Knights (pretty much since 5th ed came out). I probably average about a game a week, maybe a little more.




Edit: Grey Knights aren't the most overpriced models in the game, but they are overpriced. Grey Knight Terminators, on the other hand, are just about right.
And Shrouding is worthless. It has been for a while. I can't remember the last time my opponent has failed a Shrouding test. Grey Knights fight at close range. We pay a lot of points for WS 5 and Str 6, enough that it is very hard for Grey Knights to make back their points by sitting back and shooting. This necessitates close quarters fighting, making Shrouding useless. 5th ed is fought at close quarters, either in CC or with Flamers and Meltas. Shrouding doesn't work in any of those cases.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

That would only cover the cost of a basic marine and a storm bolter. What about the WS and S improvements? Should they be disregarded when determining the point cost? How about fearless, is that worthless, too? Ah, my friend, you are living too deeply in the mindset of "worth = points."

A storm bolter, ultimately, can do nothing more for a game than a bolter does; it just does it from a further distance. Your idea that it is 'worth' 3 points has a few holes, as a result: namely, that it will only influence the game as much as any other 2-shot capable boltgun weapon. To me, it's benefit is negligible. It's cost, even if it has to have one, is also up for big debate. On most modern marines the storm bolter is 3 points; on a Rhino, one is free, and a second one is 10 points...it is literally NO better (can only move 6" and shoot 24") and yet costs 8 points more.

We can debate all day, but at the end of the day, the storm bolter ultimately is not any more beneficial than a bolter, it simply confers the benefit of being able to do mass bolter fire from further range. While this is a great asset, it is ultimately counter to the almost screamingly obvious attempt to make these guys CC beasts. Giving models contrary wargear is one of the worst things GW has done in many of its older codices (and some of it's newer ones...thanks Matt Ward), and this is a big no-no as far as viability goes. Your argument that they should cost more points for each of their "benefits" is inherently flawed because they do not have many of the positives that other MEQs have.

A basic marine at 16 points has a bolter, pistol, ATSKNF, Combat/Chapter Tactics, Frag and Krak Grenades, access to special and heavy weaponry. A Grey Knight has none of these.

A Grey Knight has WS5, Str6, a Storm Bolter, the Shrouding, and the Aegis. While that might all be worth an extra 10 points...my contention is that at base, relative to a marine, these guys are only worth about 8 points to start with. Hence my figure of 18 points.

The WS5 is debatable, too. Khorne Berserkers have WS5, PLUS furious charge, PLUS double or more the volume of attacks, and are 4 points cheaper. WS5 is also not as good as it was in 4th edition, when many crappy horde troops would have been hitting you on 5s. Now you have horde squads with 30-60 attacks that hit on 4's even if you were weapon skill 6 to their 3.

The Shrouding is nice but I feel, again, it is contrary to both the fluff and the feel of the GKs. There is nothing in that codex about stealth, FFS. This is the kind of rule Shrike should confer to an army, not for the giant most-super-of-the-super-soldiers GKs. Also, as mentioned, if you are at anything less than 24" range (which you have to be to shoot, typically), the Shrouding will almost always be no obstacle for your enemy. And for what it's worth, fearless is as much a liability as a benefit, especially with no invuls.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Sisters of Battle Repentia.......enough said.

[therealjohnny5]

A storm bolter, ultimately, can do nothing more for a game than a bolter does; it just does it from a further distance. Your idea that it is 'worth' 3 points has a few holes, as a result: namely, that it will only influence the game as much as any other 2-shot capable boltgun weapon. To me, it's benefit is negligible. It's cost, even if it has to have one, is also up for big debate. On most modern marines the storm bolter is 3 points; on a Rhino, one is free, and a second one is 10 points...it is literally NO better (can only move 6" and shoot 24") and yet costs 8 points more.

We can debate all day, but at the end of the day, the storm bolter ultimately is not any more beneficial than a bolter, it simply confers the benefit of being able to do mass bolter fire from further range. While this is a great asset, it is ultimately counter to the almost screamingly obvious attempt to make these guys CC beasts. Giving models contrary wargear is one of the worst things GW has done in many of its older codices (and some of it's newer ones...thanks Matt Ward), and this is a big no-no as far as viability goes. Your argument that they should cost more points for each of their "benefits" is inherently flawed because they do not have many of the positives that other MEQs have.

Honestly i have to say that the Storm bolter goes better with an assault based squad than a Bolter. SB's are assault 2, Bolters are RF. So if you fire your bolter you can't charge. A storm bolter gives that advantage of shot then charge with something other than a Bolt Pistol. Now i admit that's not an amazing difference but it's enough to warrant it being better. I wish my standard marines came with SB's, i hate having to choose between RF'ing or charging...cause sometimes you're so outnumbered that extra 8 or 9 shots can help whittle down the opposition before a charge.

As for overpriced, i'd have to go with most SM HQ's, Devastator squads - why can i take a Lascannon in a tac squad for a third of the price of a Dev squad when that's their specialty? and Tau Pathfinders...i mean yeah the devilfish transports are awesome, but to take pathfinders you have to take a 100+ pt transport? that's a bit steep...

[EmperorEternalXIX]

The Devastators!! I had forgotten about them. What a crock of total crap those guys are.

As for the SB debate...I find that most times giving the enemy more wounds before my charge will lead to me not being able to make contact for the assault, and often saves them from me.

[LemanRussCommander]

On the charge they wound on 2s, actually. Ogryns are overpriced, though, especially compared to the other units they are competing with for that elite slot.

Overpriced compared to Storm Troopers? hardly, but then im not gonna beat that dead horse anymore, lousy toy soldiers...:mad:

[Polonius]

In IG:
Stormtroopers: interesting abilities, and the twin melta, min sized deep striker isn't bad, but any other use is far too pricey for what you get. I shouldn't be paying aspect warrior prices for them. A classic example of design by committee. "Well, veterans are 7pts a peice. Adding deepstrike and all the other missions is worth 3 pts, the better gun is worth 3, carapace armor is worth 3pts. We'll give 'em ccw/pistol for free!" Seldom is an elites choice made nearly obsolete by a troops choice from the same codex....

Ogryn: Definitely not a bad unit, but way too limited for the cost. Used against Orks or anythign else squishy, Ogryn do fine. Against MEQs, the complete lack of power weapons and relatively low number of attacks mean they'll be losing combats. At LD7, even with stubborn, they'll be breaking. At I2, they'll be swept. They're a high cost, elite assault squad that can't reliably even compete with MEQ troops choices in combat.

Priest: Oh, and the best force multiplier for IG HtH, the priest, doesn't work with Ogry, the best HtH unit in the book. WTF. Priests are great, and I think we'd see a lot of them at 20pts.

(of course, the IG still have some of the most aggressively costed units in the game: veterans, chimeras, valks/vendettas, hydras, platoons, company command squads, and marbo).

In Eldar:
Swooping Hawks: I'm not sure how I'm supposed to use these, and I guess they're less over priced and more hurt by the diminished value of glancing hits, but these guys cost almost the same as assault marines for... I'm not exactly sure what. They're fragile beyond belief, they have nearly no offensive output in any phase of the game, and they're big trick is to be able to land a S4 ordnance template once a turn. This one goes back to the drawing board.

Marines:

Legion of the Damned: I'm really not sure how to use this unit. maybe it was meant to have 2 wounds? It's slightly more durable than basic marines, and has some neat rules, but 10 men end up costing roughly teh same as two ironclads in drop pods. So... yeah.

Venerable Dreadnoughts: When I got the codex, I kept trying to find out what I was missing about this guy. A 60pt upgrade for +1 WS/BS, and venerable. Wow. Venerable was arguably worth 20pts in the old book, and anything really worth shooting off a dread is twin linked (either naturally or thanks to Vulkan...).


On grey Knights: Gks are overcosted, but really not as much as some people think. Compare to Noise Marines, which is a unit many people love. If you buy sonic blasters, the NMs cost the same, have higher I, more attacks on the charge, but lose the +2 strength. They gain the doom siren, but lost psycannons. Grey Knights could benefit from Frag, the ability to take a cheap rhino, but they're probably only slightly over costed.

[Cryl]

Venerable Dreadnoughts: When I got the codex, I kept trying to find out what I was missing about this guy. A 60pt upgrade for +1 WS/BS, and venerable. Wow. Venerable was arguably worth 20pts in the old book, and anything really worth shooting off a dread is twin linked (either naturally or thanks to Vulkan...).


Venerable Dreads are amazing if you put them in drop pods, they're a lot harder to kill compared to a regular dread (that reroll can be worth considerably more than 60 points on its own if you can turn a 6 into a 1 or 2). Drop pod dreads are going to take a lot of fire and the venerable rule allows them to take a lot more.

[Polonius]

Overpriced compared to Storm Troopers? hardly, but then im not gonna beat that dead horse anymore, lousy toy soldiers...:mad:

Stormtroopers, bought as anything other than min sized suicide melta droppers, are probably the most overpriced unit in the IG book. The problem is that the 5 man melta squad provides pretty good value at a buck 'o five. If Stormtroopers went down to 12pts, the suicide squad is now only 85pts, but I'm still not sure any other build is remotely feasible.

Ogryn, while weaksauce against MEQs in combat, actually do well against Orks and the like in HtH, and with a high number of S6 attacks on the charge can threaten most vehicles.

So, in general, Ogryn are more useful and less over costed, but Storms have one pretty sweet use. I'd wager you'll see more STs than Ogryn in competitive IG armies, for example.

[Polonius]

Venerable Dreads are amazing if you put them in drop pods, they're a lot harder to kill compared to a regular dread (that reroll can be worth considerably more than 60 points on its own if you can turn a 6 into a 1 or 2). Drop pod dreads are going to take a lot of fire and the venerable rule allows them to take a lot more.

Really? I guess I don't see it. If you compare to the Iron Clad, it's less likely to take damage in the first place, has rules to help at close quarters, and isn't shut down by a stunned result (built in extra armor). Sure, venerable can turn a 6 into a 1, but that's far less useful against AP1 weapons, and you're still prevented from shooting. Even with WS5, it's not nearly optimized enough for HtH to succeed on that alone.

[Cryl]

Really? I guess I don't see it. If you compare to the Iron Clad, it's less likely to take damage in the first place, has rules to help at close quarters, and isn't shut down by a stunned result (built in extra armor). Sure, venerable can turn a 6 into a 1, but that's far less useful against AP1 weapons, and you're still prevented from shooting. Even with WS5, it's not nearly optimized enough for HtH to succeed on that alone.

Personally I've found that something that's going to open up a dread is typically going to do it regardless of AV12 or AV13. Of course YMMV but I've found that the reroll is worth more than the AV13. It does depend on what you expect the dread to do when it gets there, the ironclad is much more useful for hand to hand as you rightly say.

[mstingray]

Really? I guess I don't see it. If you compare to the Iron Clad, it's less likely to take damage in the first place, has rules to help at close quarters, and isn't shut down by a stunned result (built in extra armor). Sure, venerable can turn a 6 into a 1, but that's far less useful against AP1 weapons, and you're still prevented from shooting. Even with WS5, it's not nearly optimized enough for HtH to succeed on that alone.

There has been so many times that I have shot my friends venerable dreadnought with lascannons, and it has walked unscathed (apart from being unable to shoot) into my CSM squad and just butchered everything in its path

[snikrot]

Grey knights

[Subject Keyword]

Pariahs... All the way.
I've always found the 17 point cost of flamers of tzeench to be a bit excessive compared to the brutal cheapness of other Daemon troops. A flamer will get a casualty if it is really lucky, and a Bloodletter will **** **** up every time, and they are cheaper? They still squeeze a couple of slots out of everyone's armies, though. Daemons just HURT for some long range support.

[Fellend]

Whine about grey knights. My basic Templar marines with frags costs 17p, either have cc and bolt pistol or bolter.
You are getting nice boosts for just 2 points per marine.

lets face it without accept any challenge they'd be seriously overpriced

[Shas'O D'Narb]

Ethereals. Although only 50pts, they WILL die and when they do, they could very well end up taking 1/3rd of the army with them... making them incredibly expensive for what they do.

[Cyberscape7]

Necron Warriors. reason is simple. Things like pariahs are overpriced BUT they are not compulsory. You need at LEAST 2 warrior squads and at minimum size thats is easily 360 precious points.

[DarkLink]

Grey knights

:(


Whine about grey knights. My basic Templar marines with frags costs 17p, either have cc and bolt pistol or bolter.
You are getting nice boosts for just 2 points per marine.

lets face it without accept any challenge they'd be seriously overpriced

We can't even get Frag Grenades. And you're 1pt/model more than standard Tactical SMs. Grey Knights are 25pts each, and worth about 21, maybe 22.

[Melissia]

Repentia. Other units might be overpriced but worth it, but Repentia... they just suck.

Whine about grey knights. My basic Templar marines with frags costs 17p, either have cc and bolt pistol or bolter. A squad of 10 Grey Knights is 275 points without any upgrades. A squad of ten Crusaders is 160.

I think we're done here.

[MVBrandt]

The catch is to identify a unit that cannot even be MADE good through some kind of clever ploy. Now, I don't mean "can't be played better than it's worth." Anything can be done that to, but some units can't even be maneuvered into usefulness through some kind of clever combo. Example - Repentia can be outflanked via Creed. While not the best thing to do with Creed, it does provide you the ability to chuck eviscerators en masse at something from time to time, esp. w/ an Astropath. So, are Repentia overpriced? No ... they're just terribly conceived. Even then, you *can* do something that will give them a shot at earning their points back.

It's going to perennially come back to something like regular Grey Knights. With Justicars mandatory, only I4, and still just as fragile as any other marines, they're the easiest "overpriced" unit around.

I would also venture Horrors in the Demons dex. I'm sorry, but ... ugh. The entire demons codex is vastly overpriced, which is why it's sucky and noncompetitive.


Ill conceived = / = overpriced.

[archimbald]

necrons can come back tho....... its pretty handy/annoying esp now khorne ccw have no effect

[MVBrandt]

Necron Warriors are NOT overpriced. Weak in this edition by virtue of no reliable anti-tank? Yes. Screwed over hard core by changes to morale and combat res? Yes. Overpriced? No. When 18 points in a proper list gets you a unit that only has a 1/12 chance to be killed by a bolter WOUND ... you really, really aren't overpriced.

Pariahs, on the other hand ... quite. Nearly terminator points for a unit that actually accelerates you toward being tabled as soon as you take it (phase out), doesn't benefit from the army special rules that are inherently factored into the cost of the monoliths, rez orbs, etc. that they'll be fielded alongside, and that only has a 3+ armor save and no invulnerable save? Yeah, now that's an overpriced unit.

Sadly, they're actually pretty well conceived, in that they provide the answer the Necron need for a lot of situation with a rapid firing all save ignoring decently high strength monstrous creature hitting close combat weapon ... but then they screw the whole affair up with the aforementioned.

[Lerra]

Necron warriors are overpriced in the context of squad and army performance. The only way for warriors to have the 1/12 chance to die to a bolter wound that MVBrandt stated is with external support, and you are paying points for that external support. And all you need to do is wipe out the warrior squad and they are denied their WBB, regardless. Besides, it doesn't really matter how many bolter shots you can absorb if you fold like Tau in close combat.

Now, if they fixed warriors, they might well be worth 18 points each.

[MVBrandt]

Tau are not overpriced, yet they fold in close combat and can be wiped out by bolter fire and all kinds of other stuff. You find some competitiveness with them by combining certain Tau units with other support units and key "must take" units. I am not really getting what you are going for here.

Necron Warriors are mandatory choices, they're troops, they're almost immune to ranged weaponry if player and supported properly, and the "support" units required to make them good include what is effectively a T5 Comissar Yarick on crack, and what is still one of the best tanks in the game. While they need fixes, and options, and other sorts of things, it's hardly that they are overpriced. In fact, it flat out isn't.

[Melissia]

Even IF they outflank, Repentia are only slightly less fragile in close combat than they are in shooting. Even in a creed army, they are overpriced, and that only means that Repentia may possibly be useful allied in an Imperial Guard army that uses an expensive special character, if your enemy has no means to deal with them.

Yes, Repentia are overpriced, because by your same definition, Grey Knights aren't overpriced because they are great allied in to Guard armies, too. Better than Repentia anyway. And you say they are overpriced. Grey Knights are better than Repentia hands down.

[Lerra]

Fire warriors are a different boat - at 10 points each and with a minimum squad size of 6, you can easily afford to take several scoring units and give them support. At 18 points a model (and a minimum of 180 points a squad), Necron warriors shouldn't need expensive support to function, but they do. Necrons at low point values are extremely handicapped because of this.

Necrons are not as bad as most people say they are (especially at higher point values), but the rules for the warriors certainly don't help.

[Duke]

Im going to have to through in my lot with Gery Knights... I want to run an army of GK so bad, but the model range is so limited and the codex sucks, not a good combination!

Duke

[DarkLink]

Im going to have to through in my lot with Gery Knights... I want to run an army of GK so bad, but the model range is so limited and the codex sucks, not a good combination!

Duke

At least our Terminators are amazing. If we got 3+ invuln saves on our storm shields, we'd still be the best terminators in the game, and even now we're only outclassed by a bit of fancy wargear in the new codices.

Basic Grey Knights, though, pay a ton of points for a bunch of worthless special rules, and lack certain vital options like frag grenades (inquisitorial storm troopers have frags, but Grey Knights, the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite in the Imperium don't:confused:?).

[fuzbuckle]

I would also agree with GK's being a Daemonhunters player. I think that having some form of a Land Raider as their only transport option is what really hampers them effectively making it cost 455 points if you don't want to foot slog your 7 man GK squad w/incenerators across the board and still count as scoring. Fixing them, I think, would be quite easy. Drop the 25 pt increase for the mandatory Justicar (allowing for a NFW upgrade), give them frags and access to a rhino as a dedicated transport. Even without heavy weapons, this would still make them a quite flexible and deadly unit.

[PhatCat]

As an ork player, have to say that Flash Gitz top the list of overpriced, at least for our codex. I think basic warbikes are a bit pricey, given the small unit size and lack of true fearless. They are right on the cusp, which probably means they are OK. Tankbustas are probably overpriced, mostly thanks to the "Glory Hogs" rule that really nerfs them. Take that out and they would be ok.

Otherwise, no real complaints about the ork codex.

[Madjob]

As an ork player, have to say that Flash Gitz top the list of overpriced, at least for our codex. I think basic warbikes are a bit pricey, given the small unit size and lack of true fearless. They are right on the cusp, which probably means they are OK. Tankbustas are probably overpriced, mostly thanks to the "Glory Hogs" rule that really nerfs them. Take that out and they would be ok.

Otherwise, no real complaints about the ork codex.

I've said it before, but all Tankbustas need is twin-linked on their rokkits to be worth their points. Glory Hogs is fluffy and fun.