WFB 9th Edition Rumor Roundup

[Erik Setzer]

Just makes sense, really.

Though I imagine they're still going to seriously change the world and factions.

[Mr Mystery]

Don't see why they would.

If you're rebooting, as well as going after new blood, you're looking to tempt back old blood. Scrapping armies is not how you go about that.

[Erik Setzer]

Not saying they'd scrap armies. But changing the map so it's not "Fantasy Earth" and changing some of the factions' aesthetic makes sense. Dark Elves and High Elves can be merged without much loss, and then they don't have to produce and sell two units of Elf Spearmen, Elf double-handed swordsmen, Elf halberd guards, etc. But just because they switch to only selling one type of Elf [whatever] unit doesn't mean you can't keep using the models for the other type.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I do imagine there's going to be some form of shakeup. Not "scrapping" things (at least, not without replacement!) but reconfiguring the world and the factions seems likely.

[grimmas]

I'd say we are looking at streamlining rather than scraping we could definitely see some units vanish but not necessarily whole faction. We can't ignore that the combining of factions in the End times lists could well be harbinger of things to come. A thought did occur to me they could probably release combined factions sets with for example a sprue of each flavour of elf spear wielder. Although I haven't bought the new Eternal guard/wildwood Rangers they may not be cut to allow that ( not a rumour just something that popped into my mind). In my mind the combining of factions seems most plausible of all the rumours

GW has always worked on the premise that the majority its customer base changes every 5 years, it might be less about tempting old custom back or even keeping current custom ( there always a glut of rage quitters every new edition) but more about get a whole new set of people playing sorry collecting WFB. The rumours of an integral skirmish game do seem to point to getting new people in by providing an easy to achieve entry point.

[Wildeybeast]

Not saying they'd scrap armies. But changing the map so it's not "Fantasy Earth" and changing some of the factions' aesthetic makes sense. Dark Elves and High Elves can be merged without much loss, and then they don't have to produce and sell two units of Elf Spearmen, Elf double-handed swordsmen, Elf halberd guards, etc. But just because they switch to only selling one type of Elf [whatever] unit doesn't mean you can't keep using the models for the other type.

If you are GW, why would you do that? They already have the mould, it isn't really costing anything to keep that now and why sell one kit when you can sell two different ones? I can see the background getting a shake up (End Times has already proved that is happening) and a separate skirmish game, but I honestly cannot see any sensible business reason for getting rid of races or scrapping existing plastic models.

[Kirsten]

pretty much yeah, the cost has already been incurred to make them. I could definitely see a lot of it going direct only, save a lot of shelf space in stores. When I was at Uni and friends with a store manager he was telling me the stores had a lot of excess stock recalled, and their stock levels changed. no point stocking four bloodthirsters at a time for example, send three back, keep one in at any given time, save the space for core stuff people bought a lot of. that shake up was what funded the apocalypse kits like the baneblade and stompa.

doing the same again with fantasy could make them more money in stores by stocking what people want most.

[Erik Setzer]

If you are GW, why would you do that? They already have the mould, it isn't really costing anything to keep that now and why sell one kit when you can sell two different ones? I can see the background getting a shake up (End Times has already proved that is happening) and a separate skirmish game, but I honestly cannot see any sensible business reason for getting rid of races or scrapping existing plastic models.

Well, skipping that GW doesn't do things that make business sense, it *could* make sense to remove duplicate units. Yeah, the cost of the mold has already been incurred. But then it becomes a question of whether they've gotten that back, and if they have, what's the end profit when you're taking into account that you have to have warehouse space at least taken up by units that are duplicated within the same force? We also don't know sales figures, one of the two versions of the unit might not be selling as well. Right now, you have Swordmasters and Executioners, much the same unit. Swordmasters are still rocking an old cast and are resin. Why not drop that, save those costs, and just roll with the Executions for the two-handed-sword Elves? There's a lot of factors involved. If the sales numbers don't justify the duplication, then the cost of keeping stock in a warehouse would be more justification to drop the one that isn't selling as well or doesn't have as high a profit margin.

That's all speculation, of course. No clue if they're really merging the Elves. Just saying that if they did, it'd make sense to drop some duplicated stuff.

[Wildeybeast]

Well, if they were merging Elves, then possibly it could make sense to drop certain duplicate units. Equally, it could make as much sense to keep them and give people choice, especially if they give them different stat lines and rules. Like you said it depends on what they do with the rules and races and what they underlying figures are.

[Trojan66]

Guys I am off . I thought this was an open forum with participants interested in what our game will be looking like in the future, just remember to look back at my posts when it lands will you and then re read Mr mystery s liar post...just do that and then see who was right. Have fun guys...I am sure most of you are cool hobbyists...

[Trojan66]

This is what grates my gears...
Imagine we are all sat in bugmans drinking beer and having this conversation.
The group has started to take camps around those who think massive change is a foot (bold visionaries all) and those who think a more moderate tinkering to the system is likely (the flat earth brigade).
It's all going swimmingly when Mr Mystery slams down his fruit shoot, clambers onto the bench to look me in the eye and delivers his liar liar your pants are on fire speech. Stunned silence, a chuckle into a beer glass, sidewise glances , perhaps a slap to the forehead. Chaps, it wouldn't happen in real life because we have manners and a general fear of looking a **** and getting a bloody nose ! So don't behave like it on a forum. It's rude.
RUDE

[daboarder]

This is what grates my gears...
Imagine we are all sat in bugmans drinking beer and having this conversation.
The group has started to take camps around those who think massive change is a foot (bold visionaries all) and those who think a more moderate tinkering to the system is likely (the flat earth brigade).
It's all going swimmingly when Mr Mystery slams down his fruit shoot, clambers onto the bench to look me in the eye and delivers his liar liar your pants are on fire speech. Stunned silence, a chuckle into a beer glass, sidewise glances , perhaps a slap to the forehead. Chaps, it wouldn't happen in real life because we have manners and a general fear of looking a **** and getting a bloody nose ! So don't behave like it on a forum. It's rude.
RUDE

Trojan, I wouldn't let him bother yout, rest assured that most forumites make their own decisions

[grimmas]

This is what grates my gears...
Imagine we are all sat in bugmans drinking beer and having this conversation.
The group has started to take camps around those who think massive change is a foot (bold visionaries all) and those who think a more moderate tinkering to the system is likely (the flat earth brigade).
It's all going swimmingly when Mr Mystery slams down his fruit shoot, clambers onto the bench to look me in the eye and delivers his liar liar your pants are on fire speech. Stunned silence, a chuckle into a beer glass, sidewise glances , perhaps a slap to the forehead. Chaps, it wouldn't happen in real life because we have manners and a general fear of looking a **** and getting a bloody nose ! So don't behave like it on a forum. It's rude.
RUDE

Yeah seems to be a bit of an issue for a small number of vocal posters, they claim to want discussion but seem to think that means tell you what they think and then trying to discredit you rather than having an exchange of ideas. Don't let the b*****ds grind you down.

[Kirsten]

I like the fact that people who are being cautious are somehow 'flat earthers' rather than, you know, sensible people for waiting to see what happens rather than leaping all over scraps thrown out by somebody with no history.

[daboarder]

I like the fact that people who are being cautious are somehow 'flat earthers' rather than, you know, sensible people for waiting to see what happens rather than leaping all over scraps thrown out by somebody with no history.

No kirsten we arent going to let you twist this one.

Trojan released a rumour. The community is smart enough to judge said rumour on each persons choice.
I dont exactly believe him myself. (Sorry trojan) but im not going to go on a frothing rant attacking him let alone his post just because he has no history. Ill leave that to your persuasion.

Oh and the only people losing their cool or acting on his post are those that attacked him for it so yeah whose over reacting about a forum post again?

Edit: has anyone else found it odd that certain people post loudly and constantly about how they cant stand people discussing rumours.....in a rumour thread....about rumours...under discussion?

Edit2: of course if this is proved false and he tries again then im all for shredding him

[Erik Setzer]

I do have to admit, I'm not keen on the claims that those who assume the system is going to have a massive overhaul are "bold visionaries" and those who think it'd just be enough of a change to make it more viable for small scale games are "flat earthers" (i.e. people who don't believe in new data even when it's undeniably right because they're afraid of change).

While I'm somewhat in the middle, so don't really get either label, it's not right to label people in a manner that is offensive (and meant to be so) just to claim you're on the right side of things.

These are all rumors. No one knows what's going to happen. Those who believe a certain type of rumor aren't better than others who believe a different type of rumor. You are not a "bold visionary" because you think a game is going to be changed a lot. You are also not an ostrich if you're realistic in believing a game wouldn't completely throw 30 years of development out the window.

[Cutter]

This is what grates my gears...
Imagine we are all sat in bugmans drinking beer and having this conversation.
The group has started to take camps around those who think massive change is a foot (bold visionaries all) and those who think a more moderate tinkering to the system is likely (the flat earth brigade).
It's all going swimmingly when Mr Mystery slams down his fruit shoot, clambers onto the bench to look me in the eye and delivers his liar liar your pants are on fire speech. Stunned silence, a chuckle into a beer glass, sidewise glances , perhaps a slap to the forehead. Chaps, it wouldn't happen in real life because we have manners and a general fear of looking a **** and getting a bloody nose ! So don't behave like it on a forum. It's rude.
RUDE

Yes yes Trojo, but are your pants actually on fire...?

[silashand]

It's the internet? Who cares what anyone else thinks? It's all he said/she said until the book comes out.

[Wildeybeast]

I do have to admit, I'm not keen on the claims that those who assume the system is going to have a massive overhaul are "bold visionaries" and those who think it'd just be enough of a change to make it more viable for small scale games are "flat earthers" (i.e. people who don't believe in new data even when it's undeniably right because they're afraid of change).

While I'm somewhat in the middle, so don't really get either label, it's not right to label people in a manner that is offensive (and meant to be so) just to claim you're on the right side of things.

These are all rumors. No one knows what's going to happen. Those who believe a certain type of rumor aren't better than others who believe a different type of rumor. You are not a "bold visionary" because you think a game is going to be changed a lot. You are also not an ostrich if you're realistic in believing a game wouldn't completely throw 30 years of development out the window.

Seconded. The idea that people who choose to believe some of the more wild rumours flying about are somehow the enlightened minds amongst us is frankly laughable. In the absence of anything resembling evidence, everything posted on here is a rumour, nothing more, nothing less. Believe whatever you want about them. When we have facts, the time for belief will be done, but until then, all positions are valid.

[Mr Mystery]

For the record, in case anyone is interested, I do call people liar to their face, and have done so on many, many occasions.

Why? Because pointless lies like yours are designed to sell aggrandise at the expense of playing others for fools.

I like a shaggy dog story as much as the next person. I like speculation. But yeah, I draw the line at people claiming insider knowledge who can even keep their story straight.

[bfmusashi]

Edit: has anyone else found it odd that certain people post loudly and constantly about how they cant stand people discussing rumours.....in a rumour thread....about rumours...under discussion?



He should just use rolling eye emojis and an ironic signature to hide his mental deficiency.

[Mr Mystery]

Again, rumours are cool. Rumours are fun.

People knowingly posting lies, then denying - not so much.

Try to keep up dears.

[daner0023]

The way to attract new players and still keep veterans involved is formatting.

You set up a 2-3 year campaign with Characters in a specific storyline arc. This is your Standard format for casual play, skirmish, and tournaments.

Then, you include everything ever made into a Legacy format. So when a Standard story arc ends, then those Characters can join the Legacy format. That way your models are still usable, but you buy new ones if you choose to continue to play Standard.

The core units would largely remain the same and you could perpetuate the overall story arc with DemiGods that have the ability to transcend time, space, and dimensions.

[daner0023]

GW has a lot of competition in this genre, namely Warmahordes and Malifaux.

I have played Warmahordes pretty loyally for 11 years and it's a great game. The learning curve is steep and can be discouraging. The game can end very quickly with an assassination.

I have played WHFB over the years and I like that it's pretty beer & pretzels. It involves strategy, but nowhere near the intense, frantic strategy of Warmahordes.

So, same genre, basically, but two very different games.

Does WHFB have any gas left in its tank with all of this competition and with the utterly stupid way GW treats its fans and retailers?

Do people want to paint upwards of 300 minis to play a 2500 point game with little to no play testing by the manufacturer?

Do people want to spend $1000's of dollars to build an army? Will that army be competitive when the next Codex comes out?

The answer to all of these questions depends on GW. They have the fans, the overall system is pretty good, they make great models(except for Finecrap), and they have a niche in the market.

The question is, how do they market, play test, develop, and perpetuate WHFB in the future?

If I were them, I would base it off of game system models that work, namely Magic the Gathering.

They could introduce a Core Book with the rules and all of the base units for each army, kinda like PP does in Prime and Primal.

Then they could introduce a Campaign Setting Book with terrain guidelines, fluff about the pocket dimension, new Characters for each army, and Avatars. They could add to this world through Compendiums that further the fluff, introduce new characters, and expand playable missions. They can also use these to rebalance the armies. After two-three years of fighting in this pocket dimension, they could draw a close on that storyline and move onto another one, thus ending the block.

In the next storyline, your old characters are defunct. Avatar characters could advance because they should be able to transcend time, space, and dimension, much like Planeswalkers in MtG.

The newly defunct Characters can join the Olde World Characters in a Legacy type setting, so will still be playable, just not in the new pocket dimension.

Your Core Units and Kits would always be valid and could be updated with bits to fit the aesthetic of the New Campaign Setting, as an option.

This would make old players happy, bring in new players, balance the game, and let GW sell a ton of minis, but that's just my two cents.

[flipchuck]

So.....anymore actual new rumors yet?

[Mr Mystery]

Not yet, no.

I was kind of expecting the boxed game or such to be this week coming or the one after, as staff have been unable to book annual leave.

But it would appear this week coming at least is an Assassins boxed game for 40k.

[Erik Setzer]

Not yet, no.

I was kind of expecting the boxed game or such to be this week coming or the one after, as staff have been unable to book annual leave.

But it would appear this week coming at least is an Assassins boxed game for 40k.

And that's just going to be so hot and fly off the shelves so much, you know they can't risk letting people take time off!

[Mr Mystery]

I'd buy it.

[Erik Setzer]

I'll probably buy it, but given that even Space Hulk didn't sell out and is still available in solid numbers, I don't like the idea of them blocking guys from taking vacation over it. For a new edition of WFB or 40K, or a major expansion for one of those games, or an actual new game in the permanent lineup, I could understand it.

[Path Walker]

Businesses should let customers take time off from buying things? Genius idea that.

[daboarder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4

[Bigred]

via DVeight (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407604-Warhammer-9th-Edition-Roundup-Discussion-(Reloaded)&p=7431358&viewfull=1#post7431358) 4-22-2015

Warhammer 9th Timing

The source is a GW employee in a senior position. Not design team. Very good friend of mine that has for years been trying to get me to play Warhammer and 40K which I started year ago. He let the cat out of the bag when we discussed teeing up a social game. His words were "Let's organise a game soon and also some time get together with the other guys for a last game of 8th edition triumph and treachery. 9th Edition is locked in for release on 11th July."

via Harry (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407604-Warhammer-9th-Edition-Roundup-Discussion-(Reloaded)&p=7431914&viewfull=1#post7431914) 4-22-2015
Regarding the initial 9th "Starter Set"


via jtrowell

If it exists at all, for now the only thing that I consider confirmed is that there should be a box with Chaos against "Humans" (thanks Harry ), but it might well be just a normal starter box released in fall like for the previous editions, and not a separate skirmish game at all.

via Harry

You are most welcome.
I have posted about this. It is not a 'normal' Fantasy box set. It is more like the recent 40K Box sets. The rules "book" is tiny... barely a booklet even a pamphlet is being over generous ... more of a leaflet ... well I say leaflet, it's closer to a 'post it note'. There is not enough paper in this to wipe your own @rse ... never mind space for enough rules to call it a skirmish game. If Fischer Price made wargames this would be Fischer Price my first wargame. It's good but it's not quite Carling.

(I may be overstating just how small the rulebook is for comedy effect. )

via Arthurius11

I can agree with Harry's last post as this is the information I have also. ~and also confirms round bases for the models.

[daboarder]

Oh what was that about GW would NEVER do round bases.

So long far well fantasy

[DrBored]

Just had a conversation with a guy that says he's seen the rulebook for 9th in his work with another certain game company.

Here's what I got, though some of this may be rumor reverb or it may supplement some rumors that have already come out:

Humans (referred to as Order of Light):
-Empire, Dwarves, Brettonia all wrapped up into one.

Ogres:
-Mercenaries. Hinted that they may work with Humans more often than not.

Chaos:
-Warriors, Daemons, Beastmen, and SKAVEN all wrapped up into Chaos.

All finecast models are OUT. Even some plastic models are gone.
Lizardmen heavily neutered. No Slann, obviously, but interestingly, all Skink Priests can be Lv 4 Wizards. No more Carnosaur or those pterodactyl fliers either, even though they were plastic. Engines of the Gods still in and playable.
Skaven and Beastmen also lost a lot of models, mostly centered around whatever was still finecast.
Vampire Counts also lost a lot of models, again, mostly finecast stuff.
Most End Times models are limited run. When whatever is available is gone, it's gone for good, including models like Nagash.

Fantasy will do campaign books with boxes that have one-off special characters/models that will be limited-run. Once they're gone, they're gone.

[40kGamer]

Just had a conversation with a guy that says he's seen the rulebook for 9th in his work with another certain game company.

Here's what I got, though some of this may be rumor reverb or it may supplement some rumors that have already come out:

Humans (referred to as Order of Light):
-Empire, Dwarves, Brettonia all wrapped up into one.

Ogres:
-Mercenaries. Hinted that they may work with Humans more often than not.

Chaos:
-Warriors, Daemons, Beastmen, and SKAVEN all wrapped up into Chaos.

All finecast models are OUT. Even some plastic models are gone.
Lizardmen heavily neutered. No Slann, obviously, but interestingly, all Skink Priests can be Lv 4 Wizards. No more Carnosaur or those pterodactyl fliers either, even though they were plastic. Engines of the Gods still in and playable.
Skaven and Beastmen also lost a lot of models, mostly centered around whatever was still finecast.
Vampire Counts also lost a lot of models, again, mostly finecast stuff.
Most End Times models are limited run. When whatever is available is gone, it's gone for good, including models like Nagash.

Fantasy will do campaign books with boxes that have one-off special characters/models that will be limited-run. Once they're gone, they're gone.

Well... Other than finecast going the way of the dodo this is not how I imagined they would play things out.

[Mr Mystery]

Still hugely sceptical.

With the moulds already existent, why ditch any plastic units, let alone popular ones?

[Wildeybeast]

Why on earth would GW be showing their rule book to other games companies? That alone makes me think this is some seriously smelly chat. That and fact there are no elves on that list and the suggestion they are getting rid of pretty new and popular kits like the carnosaur. I can see them sending more stuff to direct only to free up shelf space (there are already a few direct only plastic kits), but there are no other sensible reasons for getting rid of plastic units.

[Kirsten]

Yeah i don't believe plastic kits will be ditched

[Mr Mystery]

Could be some level of confusion.

Harry has suggested there may be a new skirmish game as an addition.

In that sense, not having big stuff in it makes some sense, as they would be restricted to Properhammer.

[Kirsten]

So many rumours, will be fascinating to see what actually happens.

[Mr Mystery]

My bet?

Not an awful lot.

As discussed before, Bubblehammer appears to be misconstrued from events in Thanquol, and none of the other rumour mongers have said anything Harry hasn't already supported or scotched.

[Kirsten]

We shall find out this year

[Erik Setzer]

Lack of Carnosaur is odd, since it can make multiple stuff. And if Engine of the Gods is left, why take away the Carnosaur?

It also still makes no sense to switch to round bases but keep ranked combat in the game. It's a mess to rank up round models (even buying multiple special bases that can't really be arranged into any unit formation you want). Mordheim was a skirmish game and it had square bases. Either they're ditching ranks, or someone isn't thinking this through well at all.

- - - Updated - - -

I have to agree, too, that them showing the book to another company makes no sense. Maybe showing some fluff to someone doing new work with the changed IP (but that's iffy, since they've already got multiple games lined up to come out with the former Warhammer world), but certainly no showing off rules, talking about plans for the models, etc. This is a company who is so paranoid about competitors that they won't tell their own employees what's coming in the near future, why would they show another company this stuff?

[DrBored]

Lack of Carnosaur is odd, since it can make multiple stuff. And if Engine of the Gods is left, why take away the Carnosaur?

It also still makes no sense to switch to round bases but keep ranked combat in the game. It's a mess to rank up round models (even buying multiple special bases that can't really be arranged into any unit formation you want). Mordheim was a skirmish game and it had square bases. Either they're ditching ranks, or someone isn't thinking this through well at all.

- - - Updated - - -

I have to agree, too, that them showing the book to another company makes no sense. Maybe showing some fluff to someone doing new work with the changed IP (but that's iffy, since they've already got multiple games lined up to come out with the former Warhammer world), but certainly no showing off rules, talking about plans for the models, etc. This is a company who is so paranoid about competitors that they won't tell their own employees what's coming in the near future, why would they show another company this stuff?

Unless the company is a video game company ;3

[Erik Setzer]

Unless the company is a video game company ;3

The setting, yes. The rules? Not so much. Ditto for plans for models.

[Mr Mystery]

Yerp.

Your mate might be pulling your leg.

[Wildeybeast]

The setting, yes. The rules? Not so much. Ditto for plans for models.

Yep. Like you said, all the forthcoming computer games are set in the old universe, so it's unlikely any video games company has seen anything. It is also something that makes me think there won't be massive changes to the background, more just a reboot.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm shivering with antici.....................pation.

Just hurry up and release it already!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Right. Too much longer and I might explode.

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah, me too. I'm thinking either end of May or August.

[artisturn]

At my last trip to the local independent game store , I was trying to get some info about 9th.

All I got was May 15th or later.

[Wildeybeast]

I doubt very much that independent stores have any solid info, given how closely GW guard their secrets. 15th May or later is something we could all work out.

[Kirsten]

from the front page:

"via Games Workshop Lille on Facebook

The sun goes down, teintant the sky of rubis and blood…
The elected will get together in the heart of the sanctuary, bringing with them the hopes of their people…
They will fight for the glory, for the honor, at the edge of the abyss…
Will the lowest in the abyss while the strongest will be brought to the naked…
Then they will fall in turn, victims of their pride until it is more than a glorified, glory, lying in the blood of his own nation, deaf to the supplications dying while he will recover this rightful Right, Sacred Eternal Champion in the heart of the Night, Supreme Lord in the land Devastated, King Nocturne acclaimed by the ghosts of his enemies… Until dawn…
That the forges revolve nights and days, that the prophets look through the future, that your armies are amassing around your banner. Prepare yourself mortals!
Because I am khorne! The Lord of the blood! The archi-commander! The forge-war!
You are my guests… Enter in my arena. The rules have changed, prepare yourself!!
Information directly in store!! You do not want to miss this, believe me on floor

via Darkpignouf on Warseer
Just coming back from my local store following some strange message on facebook and inviting us to pass by .
9th edition will be released on saturday the 13th of june .
My local store is organising on friday the 12th a warhammer tournament beginning at 8.00pm for thoses who will have reserved their 9th edition rule book ( If I correctly understand there will be 2 weeks of preorder )
At 0.00 , He will give to players their books.
It will be a 8th edition tournament but the local manager will release a summary of the changes if they are not to numerous in order to play in 9th edition . If it changes too much , he says that it will be a 8th edition one "

sounds cool.

[Erik Setzer]

Someone did a better translation of the Facebook post. It's basically a "fluffy" way of announcing an End Times event at the store, nothing to do with 9th edition.

The release sounds nice, but I'd honestly be very surprised if they actually informed store managers five weeks before release. I don't think they even got that kind of notice with 40K 7th edition. But I guess we'll see soon. If it's really scheduled for 6/13, we should soon see hints in WD and posters showing up in stores.

[Wildeybeast]

From speaking to guys in my local store recently, they know nothing until a few days before the release. I'd be amazed if they suddenly changed policy, especially for a major release like 9th.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

These days your GW manager finds out AFTER BOLS news feed.
But they do have a list of "Red Dates" like the stockists.
Doubt they're allowed to share them though.

[Bigred]

via one of Gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/6kBkWF_CWGA/a-new-army-book-for-fantasy-warriors-of.html) 5-9-2015

"Warriors of Order" - New Faction for WFB 9th


WFB - I'm in Nottingham for the week to visit friends, and one who has seen a new army book for Fantasy, says that the Warriors of Order are really cool, Core - Hammers of The Edge - like chaos warriors but with more straight edges

[Path Walker]

via one of Gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/6kBkWF_CWGA/a-new-army-book-for-fantasy-warriors-of.html) 5-9-2015

"Warriors of Order" - New Faction for WFB 9th

This isn't true at all.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmmm.

Suspicious.

[Path Walker]

I made it up to see if Natfka would post it, it contains a few in jokes

[Kirsten]

dear oh dear

[Wildeybeast]

Ah the joys of the rumour mill. Half truths, speculation and rampant lies, mixed with the occasional glimpse of fact.

[Bigred]

Via El Taller De Yila (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-admin/%C2%A0http://eltallerdeyila.blogspot.com/2015/05/rumores-de-warhammer-fantasy-no-tener.html) 5-11-2015


MarcusBeli translated a number of entries removed from the Pacific Ocean:

Basically, it says that it is a rumor, we did not believe it. More or less, a translation.


9th edition rules will not be the big leap was the passage of 7th-8th.
There will be 3 versions of warhammer. The era of Sigmar , recommended to play 500-1500 points and will be a skirmish style game. The era of steel , will be warhammer as we played the last five years. The end of time , magic and 50% to sack commanders and heroes (and know of undeath).
Power dice are based 2d6 (4d6 ET) to 2000 points and another die for every 1000 points, so that playing at 4000 points 4d6 winds of magic would throw (6d6 ET)
Many new spells, although all # 6 allow special salvations
New magical items. Some leave, new ones arrive.
The measure of 8th remain
Regeneration works like a hydra of war. Minis dead back with a single wound to 4+ (I think that carriers just won Warhammer)
Lances make impact hits
+1 Strength spears against mounted units
Always attack first change. Charging units obtained ASP against the charging unit.
Fear as now, but checks are ld -1, -2 terror is ld (battle standards remain unbalanced)
Lethal blow does 1d3 wounds
Death Strike continues heroic killing all
Characters riding monsters have combined profile (which I assume is because the guns were still yelling at them "10 um in the back!")
Impassivity can be lost with a single row of 5 on the sidewall. Units can not be unmoved against anything that might make thunderous slam.
2d6 scenarios and a table of far greater land
The minis lose half its load roll away if they pass spot (I think it is a simplification of the rules of land 7th) but dangerous ground remains in effect (1s to hurt the minis that make checking)
Building new rules, although still look bad
Combat resolution - numerical superiority again
Table quadrants have also returns.
We'll have to wait to see if the rumors are verified at the moment I do not excite me much !!!

Last and not least I have a friend in Nottingham who left rods with no man .... no, this is serious. I said my confidence shopkeeper had informed him from the official store of GW Valencia will have two weekends red coming week.

Recall that for the purposes of red GW week is the usual way to warn shopkeepers GW of which will have a weekend with many sales due to a special event such as the launch of a special product.

Thus dependent they not know what is coming but if they have to prepare for that something big is about to arrive. Well, so red are scheduled one week for the month of May and another for June.

[Wildeybeast]

Well, I don't know how true they are, but I like the sound of a lot of those changes. The three different game types seems like a good way to please everyone, I can see that happening.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

So we have, consistently for a while now, had two distinct sets of rumours.

One of which posits a complete change, involving round bases, an all-new setting, rules so simple you could sneeze them out, etc.

The other set, like the above, suggests revisions to the core Warhammer game in a very familiar fashion. Some things change but it's still recognizably Warhammer.

My personal take is that we're getting two things. A new game, which takes the place of the Hobbit/Lord of the Rings products set in a Warhammer: The Next Generation setting. But also, a new ruleset for Warhammer Fanatsy Battle, the game we're all familiar with, which is going to continue to be supported, receive new models and content. Nobody will need to re-base anything; new products will probably be cross-compatible to some degree.

That's the hat I'm throwing into the ring. Maybe I'm wrong. I have no information save what other people have been saying.

[Bigred]

via warseer's silveralen (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407604-Warhammer-9th-Edition-Rumor-Discussion&p=7446344&viewfull=1#post7446344) 5-14-2015


I have more stuff about factions. Usual disclaimer, this is second hand stuff take with a grain of salt etc.

1. Empire Remmanents: Mainly humans, with some dwarfs, ogres, and vampires. Humans units tend towards elite holy warriors (focus on priests, Knights, and witch hunters). The dwarves are mainly steampunk flavored, some of which bleeds into the rest of the faction. Vampires tend towards the human aesthetic, ogres have elements of both.

2. Chaos: all three chaos armies mixed together.

The warriors/humans have the same general design as now, except more obvious demonic gifts. Winged units of warriors was mentioned as an example.

Beastmen will come in more flavors, for example reptilian and avian variations. Also a variety of more animalistic units.

3. Orks/Goblins: More or less the same. They get ogres as per end times.

Also, possible mention of dwarf slaves either as units or as justifcation for some steampunk elements in the army. So possibly a bit more 40kification of the army overall, including more squigs.

4. Skaven: two major changes. First, more warptech, notably more apparent in modeling if not in rules.

Second, lizardmen slaves apparently bound using magic/warptech and mutated.

5. Undead: End times undead. More feral in feel. Beyond that, nothing.

6. Elves: End times elves, slightly more unified in appearence, takes cues from all 3 armies. Nothing much else known.

The last two are possibly due to ignorance rather than an actual lack of changes.

I don't know if any of this is really new besides a couple orc and skaven bits, some of it I read in the round up already but I just put it all down.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmmm.

Salty indeed.

[Wildeybeast]

Yep, very salty. I really don't think we are going to see mergers of armies. At least not proper ones, I think each army will still retain its own book and 'flavour'. There may be an option to combine them, as End Times currently offers, but I don't see it being a forced merger.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Sure is a mixture of round and square bases on display at Warhams World!

For example:

https://twitter.com/BadDice_Podcast/status/599576105520095232

https://twitter.com/BadDice_Podcast/status/599575947101151232

Doesn't seem to be much of a pattern to what's on square and what's on round, but the important thing is that there's displays where it's 90% square, some where it's 90% round, and some where it's a mix. All that "oh you have to rebase your whole army" is probably guff.

[Kirsten]

first things that spring to mind seeing that, warp lightning canon makes sense, my warmachines are already on round bases for pivoting on the spot. daemons make sense as well, you can use them in both systems.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

Interesting pics, certainly, and I totally agree the 're base whole army ' is bunkum looking at those.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Also note that armies which we were told face an uncertain future are still there in full effect, ie. Lizardmen.

Most of the "sky is falling" rumours and suspicions are not going to be true, guys.

[40kGamer]

I'm still thinking/hoping that we get 2 ways to play. I sure do not want to see mixed bases in tabletop armies again. They made for ugly armies the last time we had them in 40k and mixed bases are still flat out ugly today.

[Erik Setzer]

Well, the sky actually *did* fall on the Lizardmen...

(Too soon?)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Never too soon~

[Bigred]

via Bird in the Trees 5-22-2015


- WFB 9th is simply called "Warhammer'

- New rules provide for two games in one:

a) A small scale game with few models

b) A full scale game like the previous WFB

- The small scale game has heavy limitations on models that can be used such as exotic units and units that would be unbalancing at a small scale.

- Triple book format with rules and history split up ~Editor, this sounds like the current 40K format

- Round bases

- June 20th

- 6 Factions

- Game picks up after the End Times series, taking it into account.

[hirvaan]

about round bases: obvious hint hidden in a plane sight:


.
..
...
WFB 9th Edition Rumor ROUNDup. COINCIDENCE? I DON'T THINK SO.


I'm terribly sorry everybody i just had to... ;<

but really about bases: everything great, but I still don't get why Temple Guard has rounds, and skinks squares ;/

[Erik Setzer]

but really about bases: everything great, but I still don't get why Temple Guard has rounds, and skinks squares ;/

My guess is that they had some models already painted up and didn't feel like spending money to pull new models out of the stock and pay someone to paint them. Alternately, they might not have had the replacement models done in time for the Warhammer World opening. Or the Skinks might not be in Warhammer any more. Or they could just be showing off the progression of Warhammer from blocks on infantry on square bases to the round based skirmish style units they'll have in New Warhammer.

Actually, given that there's some Skinks on round, some not, I'm thinking it's very likely they just didn't get enough replacement models done in time.

[hirvaan]

maaaaybe. i was thinking that maybe models that can "skirmish" get round ones, and "infantryblocks" stay on squares, so temple guard (obvious infantryblock) on rounds seems just wrong... i don't think that it's the best way to present the "progression". but i just came up with idea: maybe skinks on squares were "fillers" for replacements like you suggest, or maybe (i haven't seen skinks on round, where have you seen them?) on squares were "fighting" skinks (skink cohort? those with Hw/S that can take Kroxigors) on round were skirmish skinks (with javelins, blowpipes). But about Temple Guard: maybe (just maybe) on squares stay more disciplined soldiers (chaos warriors, empire state troops, dwarf warriors) that are trained in fighting in units, so they can benefit from having front, flanks, and rows (for the purpose of forming a shieldwall, for example) while other soldiers, fighting in more undisciplined and savage way got rounds to form a hord-ish units? they don't keep formation, so they don't benefit from shieldwall, but they can move faster (Temple guard, gors if they are still in WFB, every kind of berserkers)? maybe we will have "disciplined" units and "barbaric" units? it wouldn't be that stupid, i think.

[Erik Setzer]

This image right here:

14225
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GWzcwhOnpoE/VVe2pP6mMdI/AAAAAAAAzyw/XEWxYMac_PA/s1600/17693_959109844121609_4799976726510650331_n.jpg)

There's Skinks on round bases behind the Saurus Warriors. Even more curious, it seems to be the same type of Skinks that are on square bases in the front of the display. I'm not sure, there might be a difference in gear... Maybe the rear ones have blowpipes, but the front are javelin and shield?

[Mr Mystery]

Simplest answer?

Round bases are coming in, but square bases aren't going anywhere.

If there's anything to the above rumour, strikes me the round bases are for the smaller scale games.

[Erik Setzer]

Eh... Different base styles for different types of games is stupid. Some idiot in the money-making branch of GW might think, "Well, they'll want to buy multiple units, so they can play both styles!" But anyone who games knows that at that point, people will just go with the square bases, because it fits the style of their current armies and would work in both. I'm not sold on them making such a mistake. Going to round bases is bad enough, but trying to do two base styles in the same game is just silly.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm with Mystery - Okkams Razor. There are obviously round bases coming but can we really see GW being so stupid as to force everyone to re-base all their square models? No. So logical and simple answer is skirmish is on round and main on square.

[Houghten]

It's not even necessarily obvious that round bases are coming out. What if all these rumourmongers just saw the displays being prepared for the Warhammer World re-opening and got hold of the wrong end of the stick? What if they just looked better that way on a display that's never going to be used for gaming?

[Auticus]

Its more fun to generate half baked hate rumors since the community as a whole seems much more receptive to taking that and running with it.

Until the books come out - who knows?

I'm still not rebasing anything. If the skirmish game is for the round bases, I'll still play it with squares the same as I do in 40k when I field my square based demons and have for over a decade now.

[Erik Setzer]

I'm with Mystery - Okkams Razor. There are obviously round bases coming but can we really see GW being so stupid as to force everyone to re-base all their square models? No. So logical and simple answer is skirmish is on round and main on square.

That's not really the "simple" answer unless you're looking at it from the "sales" view that thinks you can double sales that way.

And if you want to go the route of "GW wouldn't be so stupid as to make everyone rebase," well... Either we're not supposed to use our current models in skirmish, or we have to rebase if we want to play smaller games. So yeah, guess they are that stupid.

[Wildeybeast]

I'll admit I can't really think of a good reason for moving the skirmish game to round bases since it doesn't particularly matter what sort of base you have. But then I can think of even fewer reasons for making everyone re-base their army. Technically, the simplest thing would not to be changing bases at all, but that seems unlikely given the appearance of round based models.

[Bigred]

A couple of notes on the Square vs Round debate.

Harry chimed in on Warseer saying both bases would work and it would be OK, and not to panic.

Another Warseer rumormonger (I forgot who) let slip that in those pics above, there may have been a time issue with the Studio painters getting prepped for the Warhammer World re-opening and they may have prioritized the rebasing of the lizardmen starting with the kits that will make it into 9th, and put off the ones that will become unavailable.

There has been a general description of 9th that goes something like this:

1) All the existing army books and units are legal (so every mini you have can be used)
2) The existing 15+ armybooks get combined into 6 factions (End Times style basically)
3) GW however, will only produce a smaller subset of minis for WFB moving forward, so lots of "minor/fringe" units will not be getting new production runs ever, what's out there is it.
4) GW will update, and release new minis/army books for the "new mega factions" moving forward.
5)The game will move to round bases for all new production, but the rules allow square bases with no penalty for existing collections.

This is coming from collating what the reliable people have been saying for a while.

[Mr Mystery]

3) just sounds like nonsense.

Not replace the kits? That's one thing.

But cease production when the cost of the mould has already been paid? Why? Even if they sell relatively slowly, the cost of keeping them available is pretty minimal. Indeed, if you pay £X to get it on the shelf from the ground up, if you withdraw it (and apparently en masse kits wise) before it's made £X in profit, you've just taken a loss for absolutely no good reason

[Kirsten]

yeah I still don't buy that bit, especially given that the rumours of what is staying and what is going are inconsistent. what was it, something like the carnosaur going but the stegadon staying? makes no sense at all.

[Trojan66]

Another week goes by without GW even acknowledging that warhammer exists. It's a poor way to manage change in anyone's books.

[Wildeybeast]

What I'm basically getting is a whole bunch of contradictory rumours which basically means no one has a bloody clue what GW is doing with 9th. Which I suspect is exactly the way GW wants things to be. Let the rumour mill whip up a frenzy and leave people desperate to find out and more than willing to fling money at the new rules when they do release them.

[Trojan66]

I still say think inclusion rather than restrictions for the new launch. GW are about trying to sell more figures and will be doing this by making restrictions a thing of the past...pick your fav figures and that's your army ! Look at archaon rules for pointers ! Just wish they would get the hell on with it, they can't be selling anything at the mo !

[Kirsten]

yeah I do think this mega faction things might be real purely for that reason, if Warhammer needs a sales boost, allow people to take armies made of up whatever they want. would certainly tempt me to do a combined Empire, Dwarf, and Bretonnia army

[Trojan66]

it is a bit daft when you think about it, a kid walks into GW and says he wants to collect a warhammer army...and the first thing the staff do is make him choose which race, which immediately rules out 90% of what's on the shelf. He is then advised not to get that cool rare choice monster, or special choice cavalry but to go for a box of rather boring core troops...it does make much more sense to be able to take what you want...see the staff turn up with blood thirster armies !

[eosgreen]

i for one am thrilled with "combined" armys but it does take away from your "special snowflake" syndrom people can have. i like using niche models but i would give up anything warhammer related to be done with finecast... thats what the new stuff will be, plastic and high quality like end times.

- dont even have to tell anyone else how useless large monsters are like dragons in the current game (cannons anyone?) so im even more excited to field a non gimicy dragon type and not assume its going to be 1hit and a giant waste

looking forward to it

[Mr Mystery]

I've never been that bothers by Cannons shooting my big Monsters. They've always been effective in that way, yet (not yourself) the way some go on, you'd think it was a recent phenomena. It's far from guaranteed a single cannon shot will hit the Dragon, let alone slay it outright. Spesh as given End Times, the flappygribbly now benefits from any invulnerable save its rider might have.

I'm still far from convinced anything is getting dropped, but I do see the wide groupings introduced in End Times sticking around as an additional way to field stuff. But dropping stuff with existing models? What's the point in that?

[Kirsten]

I don't like the combined profile from the end times. I can see the advantages, but it means for example that Deathclaw's attacks benefit from Ghal Maraz' special rules...

[Mr Mystery]

I think I prefer it overall. The rider/monster thing just meant you had to buy the rider really good armour, because otherwise they became a liability.

Benefits to both of course, and drawbacks and all. But on balance, combined profile is my preference.

[Kirsten]

assuming that combined profiles are now what will happen going forward, rather than an End Times badass thing

[Mr Mystery]

True that.

Could stay as End Times only concepts, if only because it would be weird with variances between armies as the books get updated.

[eosgreen]

I don't like the combined profile from the end times. I can see the advantages, but it means for example that Deathclaw's attacks benefit from Ghal Maraz' special rules...

its your perception of how its working that imo is wrong. it isnt that deathclaw is doing 6 attacks that are ghal maraz enhanced but that the entire model is worth x amount of attacks. its easier to balance/less clunky. rules are a representation of a models strength and isnt that much easier to balance?

[Kirsten]

no, I know what it is. it is Franz' attacks and Deathclaw's attacks combined, along with wounds, toughness, and everything else. I just don't like the fact that the monster in each instance gets the benefit of the rider's magic weapon.

[eosgreen]

no, I know what it is. it is Franz' attacks and Deathclaw's attacks combined, along with wounds, toughness, and everything else. I just don't like the fact that the monster in each instance gets the benefit of the rider's magic weapon.

just think of it as combat power.... a model together has x power. i doubt fluff wise (thats the problem right?) its that deathclaw is uses the weapon... how nitpicky can you be lol

the rider/mount mechanic is really really dumb

[Erik Setzer]

The combined profile helped simplify the game, which is one issue people had, and also makes monstrous mounts seem more like a useful option to people, as you don't have to worry about the monster being shot out from under the rider, or vice versa. Neither becomes a liability at that point. And you can have monster-riding lieutenants like the Mortarchs that are more powerful because of it, especially spellcasters like Arkhan, whose combat ability is otherwise laughable.

[Trojan66]

The thing is End Times was never supposed to be a stand alone event, it's was set out as an evolution of warhammer. With this in mind is does make predicting what's coming next a little more straight forward.
In terms of figure ranges, I feel sure some will go...the elves for example are a very different race now so the range will have to reflect this at some point, I have already seen evidence of dark elf corsairs being reduced to clear in ID stockists, as an example .

[Mr Mystery]

Or they're being reboxed to include round bases alongside the square ones.

Or reboxed to come in units of 20.

[Trojan66]

I don't think it's that. All the kits will have round base at some point but the only ones being sold off through the stockists in my area are dark elms, liars and ogres. Knowing what we do about the fluff I think it's too big a coincidence.
Also, it's not just about making profit on moulds already made, it's also about space in the stores and the cost of production v return on invested capital. I see boxs in my GW store that have been there for ever...faded buty the sun they are !
Who knows what's a foot, but I bet we see a figure range more reflective of post end times warhammer,

[40kGamer]

I don't think it's that. All the kits will have round base at some point but the only ones being sold off through the stockists in my area are dark elms, liars and ogres. Knowing what we do about the fluff I think it's too big a coincidence.
Also, it's not just about making profit on moulds already made, it's also about space in the stores and the cost of production v return on invested capital. I see boxs in my GW store that have been there for ever...faded buty the sun they are !
Who knows what's a foot, but I bet we see a figure range more reflective of post end times warhammer,

Making profit off existing plastic moulds is a valid thought but at some point even this can be irrelevant. What if you 'knew' that you would make 90%+ of a products lifecycle sales in the first production run? Why would you keep warehousing and allocating resources to it. If something changes in the future you can always do a reissue like they did with Space Hulk. It's not like the moulds go away if you simply shelf them.

[Trojan66]

I was clearly under the influence of strong ale when I wrote that last post ! Sorry,

[Bigred]

via Steve the Warboss 5-27-2015

WFB 9th Release Window Details

-6 Weeks of Releases
-Rulebook and Accessories
-Starter Set
-First Armybook (Empire)
-Released in quick succession
-"Sigmarites" are only another Knightly Order

[Kirsten]

empire armybook is rather different to the mega factions idea.

six weeks of quick releases does suggest some sort of big change that needs updates for.

[Erik Setzer]

At this point, I think the WFB rumors are just entertainment, and we won't have a clue about anything until White Dwarf is in our hands... or maybe even the WFB rulebook.

[Wildeybeast]

Yep, I've yet to see any two set of rumours that actually agree on things. There's probably some truth out there, and everyone has little fragments of it. About the only thing we know for certain is GW have started putting Warhammer models on round bases. Why, and what this means for square bases, is anyone's guess.

[40kGamer]

They may just be testing the water with 9th by allowing square or round before committing to a basing scheme in 10th. Or they may go the 40k route where literally anything goes for basing.

[Mr Mystery]

Harry's info, although now 'dated' seemed fairly sure different bases for different takes on the game.

I can see a Skirmish game working nicely. Warhammer has really, really nice models. Skirmish with wider factions than single force army books allows for a smaller, more eclectic collection to be fielded, without taking away the Warhammer existing players know and love, and there's many thousands of us.

There's room for multiple formats within the background. Indeed, many of the best Warhammer Novels involve the exploits of a small warband against the odds, and it is glorious. I'd wager that a series of novels where they're all massive battle would wear thing quickly. Not even Horus Heresy has done that!

Also interesting that the rumours are getting less and less insane....

[40kGamer]

Mordheim is actually a pretty brilliant skirmish game. Hopefully they build something off of that framework.

[Erik Setzer]

Harry's info, although now 'dated' seemed fairly sure different bases for different takes on the game.

I can see a Skirmish game working nicely. Warhammer has really, really nice models. Skirmish with wider factions than single force army books allows for a smaller, more eclectic collection to be fielded, without taking away the Warhammer existing players know and love, and there's many thousands of us.

There's room for multiple formats within the background. Indeed, many of the best Warhammer Novels involve the exploits of a small warband against the odds, and it is glorious. I'd wager that a series of novels where they're all massive battle would wear thing quickly. Not even Horus Heresy has done that!

Also interesting that the rumours are getting less and less insane....

Obviously multiple formats can work... as they did it in the past, with Warhammer Skirmish and Warbands. Both were nice, but, like when they chopped Kill Team and Combat Patrol out of 40K to try to sell separate (from an already $85 set of rules), they nixed those options and never put them into the core book or updated them for use with later editions. Basically, their own greed and being out of touch with the customer base caused that issue, and now they're finally rectifying it. But it's weird to see so many people who think it's a new or novel concept. The aforementioned Skirmish and Warbands were, at earliest, 6th edition, so people have to be pretty new to the game to not know of their existence. Are there really that few of the "old guard" left? And if most of the customer base, which is shrinking too fast, is under 10 years of time with the games, that's not exactly a promising long term situation.

Anyway... My biggest issue with those rules is the different bases for different play styles thing. You have to be seriously out of touch with players and have very little to no players on staff to think that'd work. I get that some suit-wearing guy might say, "Oh, those games like Warmachine and Malifaux use round bases, so our small game version of Warhammer should use round bases, even though the game normally uses square bases." But anyone who really thinks about it will know people will go with square bases, because no one's going to stop them using those at skirmish level (especially given how many of us already have those set up), and it makes it easier to use the same models in larger games. And if someone at GW is thinking "Hey, they'll buy more models because they'll have to base them different!", they're an idiot, because that makes it more difficult for someone to step from the small scale up to the big scale. You want the skirmish level to be a way to draw people in cheap and hook them before they get gently prodded to the larger scale games. If you're making it impossible for them to use their armies in the larger scale games, you're making it less likely they'll bother to get a larger army.

Basically, I can't see different bases working for different scales, because it would make absolutely no sense, unless someone was having a complete mental lapse. I wouldn't even call that "greed," I'd just call it sheer stupidity and a sign the people making the decisions don't know anything about the products they're trying to sell.

[Bigred]

via Warseer's Lord Dan (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409361-Warhammer-9th-Rumor-Discussion-Mk-III&p=7455096&viewfull=1#post7455096) 5-26-2015

Latest WFB 9th "Overview"


Originally Posted by Neo-birdy
Hey Dan, don´t want my name associated with rumours since I don´t know how much GW actually check stuff on forums, but anyway to make a long story short, a guy at GW HQ phoned me today & we had a long conversation since he wants me to become a GW retailer. I told him I was unsure due to recent warhammer fantasy rumours & GW not letting the public know anything, so after a while I got the following things confirmed:

9:th edition is coming out this summer.

Round bases is a go, you will be able to play with Square bases, but after 9:th edition hits, Everything will be sold with round bases.

Everything will be able to skirmish, but many units will be able to rank up as well, GW will releasemovement trays made for this

Unbound will exist, as will bound lists, basically what he told me is that it´s what the public wants, however to avoid powergaming there will be scenarios which require you to hold objectives etc etc & units in an unbound army can´t hold an objective as long as an enemy is within x inches, while bound armies can. He said something about getting bonus points for killing the enemy commander as well, something unbound armies couldn´t get. So they will encourage both styles but in different ways.

He only confirmed one new faction, which was humans, he said it will basically be Empire + Bretonnia & some new troops. He was very clear about no army being squatted though.

[Bigred]

via Atia (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409361-Warhammer-9th-Rumor-Discussion-Mk-III&p=7456436&viewfull=1#post7456436) 5-28-2015

Regarding the new "Age of Sigmar" product for WFB 9th:


ladys and gentlemen

i confirm the upcoming release of Age of Sigmar
14330

That image indicates a product page for "Age of Sigmar" exists on the GW website, but is currently not redirecting to another placeholder page until it is used.

[grimmas]

Obviously multiple formats can work... as they did it in the past, with Warhammer Skirmish and Warbands. Both were nice, but, like when they chopped Kill Team and Combat Patrol out of 40K to try to sell separate (from an already $85 set of rules), they nixed those options and never put them into the core book or updated them for use with later editions. Basically, their own greed and being out of touch with the customer base caused that issue, and now they're finally rectifying it. But it's weird to see so many people who think it's a new or novel concept. The aforementioned Skirmish and Warbands were, at earliest, 6th edition, so people have to be pretty new to the game to not know of their existence. Are there really that few of the "old guard" left? And if most of the customer base, which is shrinking too fast, is under 10 years of time with the games, that's not exactly a promising long term situation.

Anyway... My biggest issue with those rules is the different bases for different play styles thing. You have to be seriously out of touch with players and have very little to no players on staff to think that'd work. I get that some suit-wearing guy might say, "Oh, those games like Warmachine and Malifaux use round bases, so our small game version of Warhammer should use round bases, even though the game normally uses square bases." But anyone who really thinks about it will know people will go with square bases, because no one's going to stop them using those at skirmish level (especially given how many of us already have those set up), and it makes it easier to use the same models in larger games. And if someone at GW is thinking "Hey, they'll buy more models because they'll have to base them different!", they're an idiot, because that makes it more difficult for someone to step from the small scale up to the big scale. You want the skirmish level to be a way to draw people in cheap and hook them before they get gently prodded to the larger scale games. If you're making it impossible for them to use their armies in the larger scale games, you're making it less likely they'll bother to get a larger army.

Basically, I can't see different bases working for different scales, because it would make absolutely no sense, unless someone was having a complete mental lapse. I wouldn't even call that "greed," I'd just call it sheer stupidity and a sign the people making the decisions don't know anything about the products they're trying to sell.

I don't think we are going to see different types of bases, all will probably be that all new sets come with round bases. It's just going to be highly likely that it simply won't matter for the large scale game as its more than likely that units will be mounted on movement trays as they are now (correct movement trays are currently mandatory in the Warriors Code). From what we've heard it's shaping up that the 2 styles of play will look like LoTR and WoTR so round bases may be necessary for the skirmish (beginner?) game but either will be fine for the large scale game because the models will be on movement trays. This would allow the use of existing armies but I can't see them supplying both types. I'd be happy with this because the WoTR movement trays for round bases are much easier use.

[Houghten]

And how exactly do you take models on 25mm round bases and make them fit on the correct tray for 20mm square bases?

[Mr Mystery]

Erm....you don't? I guess.

Still needing to desalinate most of these rumours.

The one about the guy 'thinking of becoming a stockist'.....yeah. I'm not convinced (though I am known to be very cynical about rumours in general).

[Erik Setzer]

It all just feels so poorly thought-out. At best, if they release new stuff on round bases, it means all of us with existing armies then have to track down some square/rectangular bases, or some of our army doesn't look right with the rest. Smaller models on smaller bases right now don't really match well with the same models being on larger bases.

We don't have solid info, so can't say anything for certain. But right now, it feels like someone at GW who isn't a gamer and knows nothing of their customer bases mandated a change that is going to piss off a lot of people. But hey, at least Warhammer will finally be on the round bases of games like Warmachine and Malifaux, so it's worth it to make it a mess to update existing armies, right?

I'll probably just look for non-round bases for any of my existing armies when I expand them. I might be able to shift my Ogres to round bases, since I haven't started painting them, and they don't touch the base that much. But my Orcs, Empire, Elves, Skaven? Nope. Additions to those armies will be on square bases, even if I have to find a 3rd-party seller, and if someone doesn't want to play against that, they're free to find someone else to play against. I don't want my armies looking awful with a mix of bases.

[Dennis Harrison]

The base thing doesn't bother me too bad. I have daemons on squares which I probably should port over anyway, but I have a dwarf army and a high elf army mounted on standard sized square bases. But my plan isn't buying new bases as much as it is taking advantage of the tools I have available. My idea is popping over to a local spot with a laser cutter. You've seen all that laser cut terrain floating around, so I am just going to grab some thin stuff and burn out the correct sized bases. There is a little over hanging going square to round, so I'll be using my trusty clippers pop off a few corners. Thin wood or plastic is fairly cheap and the laser cutter can cut the exact disc every time. An alternate solution is find the right sized round washers and glue them together. I think having a slim metal washer under the models would be brilliant in terms of magnetic movement trays and add a little weight to some of these plastic models that feel very flimsy to pick up. Just make sure you have the correct outside diameter and you are good to go.

[grimmas]

And how exactly do you take models on 25mm round bases and make them fit on the correct tray for 20mm square bases?

Probably not going to happen the issue would probably be the other way round because if all infantry is going to be on 25mm round bases you'll need to put the 20mm squares on the round base trays to have correct spacing and they'd fit . That said one could quite easily add spacers to existing trays and leave a larger hole for adding a round based character.

It may or may not happen I just don't see any problem that can't be dealt with pretty easily.

Erik you may be right and it will look off but I think everything will look fairly square when using movement trays, it never seemed to matter with WoTR large monsters.

Edit:
Or just use plain flat movement trays people already do to deal with adding different based sized character models to units already
And making less types of bases will reduce GWs costs (less production runs) and I reckon they'll be fair keen on that.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

If I ever see or hear the term "squatted" again it'll be too soon.

I wonder, incidentally, how long they've been considering moving to round bases. A bunch of newer models aren't well suited for ranking up (Witch Elves come to mind) and will look much better in round-base units.

[Erik Setzer]

If I ever see or hear the term "squatted" again it'll be too soon.

I wonder, incidentally, how long they've been considering moving to round bases. A bunch of newer models aren't well suited for ranking up (Witch Elves come to mind) and will look much better in round-base units.

It's not a new phenomenon. I have the older plastic Clanrats, and I'm about to cut some freaking tails off in order to make them rank up better. The tails stick out behind them, their arms and heads also stick out a bit.

Reminds me of another issue with some of my existing armies, especially ones with larger units (i.e. Clanrats, Skeletons, Zombies): I have quite a few models set up on the old four-wide bases, which means they can't be used outside of a ranked up unit. Meh.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

No, it's always been a problem, certainly.

[Bigred]

On the other hand, the designers sometimes pull off insane interlocking poses that look dynamic individually yet somehow rank up.

I'm talking Dark Elves Corsairs here. I'm thinking the CAD sculptors voodoo sacrificed quite a few chickens to make that all work out.

[Bigred]

via one of gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/V9bMIM9c3Go/age-of-sigmar-and-9th-edition-fantasy.html) 5-29-2015


Age of Sigmar will be not the first part of a Three-Part Ruleset in the 9.Edition, it will be the Name of the first Starter Set. The Set includes Simplyfied Fantasy Rules, based on the new Edition with Skimisher Rules. Age of Sigmar will be an easy and "cheap" introduction for new People and the first Release of the new Edition. Soon after the Set GW will release the Full Rulebook with full skimisher and standard Rules. Later in this Year, there will be a classic Starter Set like the previous with two Armies and a Full Mini-Rulebook.

[Kirsten]

On the other hand, the designers sometimes pull off insane interlocking poses that look dynamic individually yet somehow rank up.

I'm talking Dark Elves Corsairs here. I'm thinking the CAD sculptors voodoo sacrificed quite a few chickens to make that all work out.

often doesn't work though. chaos knights? absolutely no chance of ranking them up. same with chaos warriors.

[Mr Mystery]

It's all in the movement trays. The modular ones have a little extra space, allowing stuff to rank up.

Me, I'm still expecting two different takes - round base exclusive skirmish (possibly using the really rather ace LotR rules), and good ol' square bashing.

[Kirsten]

chaos models still don't fit even a little bit

[grimmas]

Yeah the ranking issue comes from using a rule set that was designed for set posed metal minatures that were 2/3 the size. My circa 3rd ed woodelves rank up beautiful, the multi pose new plastic ones need a bit of careful thinking in the construction phase.

That's why I'm hoping the round base rumour is moving towards the WoTR style of unit. It'll make things much easier to deal with and allow the plastic kits to really come into their own.

I can't see the two levels of game having different bases because that would effectively make them 2 different systems and two different set of models, which on paper may seem like a good idea, but it would simply mean the larger scale game still just posessed the same issues as WFB does now. Also GW does seem to like to keep the number of system low I suspect because it keeps their overheads lower and means more money for them.

[Mr Mystery]

Unless the 'main game' allows any unit to be fielded as skirmish on the round bases, with different perks compared to ranked units.

[grimmas]

Unless the 'main game' allows any unit to be fielded as skirmish on the round bases, with different perks compared to ranked units.

May be but what is your reasoning for 2 different styles of bases in the same system, I can't see them putting 2 different types of bases in each set and producing packs of extra bases that people don't need to buy is only going to increase GW's costs. I can't see GW doing something that's going to make their lives harder/less profitable

[Houghten]

And yet it's literally already happening, unless you think those photos of the Grey Seer and Gutrot Spume were faked or random flukes

[Mr Mystery]

May be but what is your reasoning for 2 different styles of bases in the same system, I can't see them putting 2 different types of bases in each set and producing packs of extra bases that people don't need to buy is only going to increase GW's costs. I can't see GW doing something that's going to make their lives harder/less profitable

Daemons have had just that for some time.

Bases cost nowt to produce, because they're a pretty simple mould, and see wide use.

[grimmas]

Expect of course that bases will cost something to make, the machines will cost to run and it will cost employee time as well, for a company that is doing some serious cost cutting it seem highly believable that they'd do the same with their manufacturing and I'd not be suprised if bases are in fact the single most produced product.

Yes daemons do currently have both but they are an example of what I'm talking about. They didn't stop making separate 40k and WFB daemons because it fitted the background or made it easier for customers they did it because they saved money on having only one type of box not two.

Now I don't think it'll happen over night they'll let us keep using the square bases and may even continue to sell old stock with them but eventually I can see square bases being a thing of the past.

Of course it is just a rumour but it is one the more believable ones

[40kGamer]

From everything we've seen so far I think square bases may get Squatted. They aren't free to make and cost accountants track every fraction of a penny!

[Mr Mystery]

Except they run the risk of those happy with square bashing leaving the game.

Considering they have a perfectly good rule set at present, there's no need to take said risk.

[Erik Setzer]

Except they run the risk of those happy with square bashing leaving the game.

Considering they have a perfectly good rule set at present, there's no need to take said risk.

Same could have been said about plenty of decisions over the years, such as replacing the 40K rules in less than 2 years, or removing entire armies from the game. Doesn't stop them.

Ditto also for the complete shutdown of Specialist Games, which looks even more like a bad idea now with all the successful skirmish games, starship games, desire for massive battles without paying thousands of dollars, etc.

[Mr Mystery]

Specialist Games - weren't selling. I'm a massive fan of Necromunda, Mordheim and BFG. The last time I bought stuff for said games? BFG, picked up a Grand Cruiser during the final sell off. Other than that? If I'm honest - probably when they rejigged Necromunda, which I think was around 2003ish?

Removing entire armies? You mean Squats? Or more specifically, you mean Squats when 2nd Ed 40k came out yeah? Because that's an awfully long time ago.

You know, I get it. You have an axe to grind, and are determined to paint GW as some incompetent moron - despite all evidence to the contrary (and no, you not agreeing with decision A does not make decision A a bad idea).

But all we have are rumours. Rumours which still prove largely contradictory.

The whole 'no more square base evar' comes from 'Bird in the Trees' - a monicker we know has ropey information at best, and at worst a track record of just making stuff up. And that's about an alleged forthcoming 40k Tzeentch Daemonkin Codex - something that nobody else has rumoured.

To date, Harry's rumours remain the most reliable, and consistent. He's gone back and added clarifications. And what he understands is that both square and round bases will remain in the game. He's said the current army books will remain valid for whatever comes next - so that means square bases will be around.

The rest is just speculation. When the more reliable rumours and good old fashioned common sense suggest the core game we know isn't really going anywhere - that's kind of hard to overcome as a combo.

But of course, it's fashionable for those with no experience of running a business and no access to any GW facts and figures beyond that which appear on their annual reports to claim that a successful, profit making company which owns a massive slice of it's market is somehow piloted by idiots.

[Erik Setzer]

I have no "axe to grind," and there isn't "all evidence to the contrary" on them making some daft decisions that are out of touch with people.

Specialist Games sold when they actually bothered advertising for them and didn't make it hard to get them. The thing is, they don't sell as much to individual people as 40K and WFB do. You only need to spend $100-$200 to have a solid army/fleet. That doesn't seem as promising when you feel like you can sell a "web bundle" of over $800 to people. And yet, there are companies who are able to make profit just with games like that. I see so many people getting into Armada who say they'd buy BFG if it was available, but instead they'll give their money to FFG, or Sparta Games for the upcoming Halo fleet battles. Mordheim didn't even need new models made, really, it could have served as a way to get people started on a WFB collection, and even after GW wasn't doing much with it besides offering the rules for download, we still had people running leagues. The local GW store did a Blood Bowl league that got a lot of interest, with people converting teams (and they looked really cool). The games can sell. Yeah, they don't require $800 or more to get into... but that's also what helps them pull people in.

As for armies being axed, I'm not just talking the Squats or Genestealer Cults.

Dogs of War has a list for 6th edition WFB... they got killed off. Middenheim for Empire had a bunch of specialized stuff... killed. Kislev and Dwarf Slayers? Also killed off. They were at least around for 6th edition WFB, heck, they were created for 6th edition! (And if you want to argue the Slayers weren't a new army, consider the models that can no longer be used, and try using a Slayer army with the Dwarf codex without going "unbound.") Now we have rumors of nixing Bretonnians and Lizardmen, both of whom were introduced as full armies in 5th edition, as well as Ogres, who are relatively new. While they're just rumors, the seeds were sewn in End Times.

So yeah. I can see them killing off armies. I can see them not wanting to spend money to include square bases even if it'll upset people. And you really think it's not going to cause issues when people using 25mm at minimum round bases try to line up against regiments with 20mm bases? Or those of us who lined up models four-wide?

You're claiming that people can't say anything based on lack of knowledge. So maybe you should hold to what you're saying for others and stop telling people not to worry because one person says things *might* be okay in their rumors... especially when said rumors still open up issues for existing armies and using them against newer armies.

- - - Updated - - -

But of course, it's fashionable for those who can drop money on every new army to defend a company making their games too expensive to keep up with, making the rules an utter mess, making more and more business decisions to give a big "up yours!" to FLGS's, and cut out the more affordable games.

[40kGamer]

Except they run the risk of those happy with square bashing leaving the game.

Considering they have a perfectly good rule set at present, there's no need to take said risk.

True. But all the base shaking they are doing in 40k doesn't seem to be causing any customer casualties. I actually don't know what I would find more annoying, two different basing schemes for the same figures or just handing out round bases to everyone. They'll always 'allow' whatever basing you want. Every now and again someone still shows up with square bases for selected 40k figures. That's always good for a trip down memory lane. .. Remember when the only round bases were the standard ones and everything else was on a square base? :)

Plus there are currently zero basing restrictions in 7th 40k at all. It's the wild west!

[40kGamer]

But of course, it's fashionable for those who can drop money on every new army to defend a company making their games too expensive to keep up with, making the rules an utter mess, making more and more business decisions to give a big "up yours!" to FLGS's, and cut out the more affordable games.

Some of us are just not that fashionable... we still find said company to exhibit curious and oft times stupid behavior. IMO the game and figure market has really opened up and GW is playing catch up. It's obvious from their numbers that while they continue to be profitable they are moving less product every year. Now they apparently feel the need to do something dramatic to keep WFB viable.

[Erik Setzer]

Some of us are just not that fashionable... we still find said company to exhibit curious and oft times stupid behavior. IMO the game and figure market has really opened up and GW is playing catch up. It's obvious from their numbers that while they continue to be profitable they are moving less product every year. Now they apparently feel the need to do something dramatic to keep WFB viable.

I think they could have made WFB more viable with some simple steps:

1. Reintroduce Skirmish and Warbands in the core rulebook.
2. Sell a core rulebook capped at $50 MAX.
3. Reduce cost of army books.
4. Normalize prices on products (i.e. keep infantry units at $40/10 max, unless large-sized; no sticker-shock prices on units like Blood Knights, etc.).

WFB didn't have an option for playing smaller games any more, so you had to build a large army of expensive models after dropping $135 just for the core rules and your army's rules. When you look at other games and see that people can have a whole force for $135 (or less), it becomes apparently what the issue is. I wouldn't recommend cutting costs too far, but bringing them more in line with the competition makes more sense.

And, you know, not pissing on the FLGS's, who some day might decide they don't need GW games to survive. Bad enough the things they do that hurt their own stores...

[Bigred]

via Hostingpics (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=4090581419.jpg) 6-2-2015


Age of Sigmar
Pre-order July 4th
Streetdate: July 11th
14422

[Mr Mystery]

Intrigued....

[Wildeybeast]

As am I. Not sure why, but something feels a bit 'off' about that photo. Maybe it's the radical design change of the logo.

[James243]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11017196_820331418016319_7230565659931484086_n.jpg ?oh=afdbda6d4d356b244bd16ca3cefa14d5&oe=5605D3EE

There's the back cover.

[Bigred]

Mr. Mystery if that had you intrigued - just read THIS:

via Mengel Miniatures (https://www.facebook.com/mengelminiatures) (facebook) 6-2-2015

Age of Sigmar
1442814429

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah. Really sounds like no more Lizzies :p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Oh you got there before me. Well hell.

Colour me interested.

[Mr Mystery]

Starting to feel the excite now.

[Austin Becht]

Yeah. Really sounds like no more Lizzies :p

Not necessarily. It says the Lizardmen escaped destruction, and asks if anyone else did as well. Not so sure that means they are gone. In fact, it almost confirms they aren't gone, because they are the only race confirmed to not be entirely wiped out (bar Daemons). Total destruction, AKA "squatting", is entirely possible with any of the other races (again, bar Daemons) as we do not know their fates. Lizardmen, however, we definitely know aren't dead, so it would be odd to " squat" them.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

He's being sarcastic. A lot of chat recently was about them being "sq**tt*d"; but there they are, front and centre in the latest text.

[Austin Becht]

He's being sarcastic. A lot of chat recently was about them being "sq**tt*d"; but there they are, front and centre in the latest text.

Oops...smiley didn't appear on my phone when I replied to him. Now that I see it, yes, it is apparent that he is sarcastic. Still, what I said stands; we now definitely know Lizzie's won't be squatted. Now its just a question of who might be squatted, if any, from the factions that remain.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I don't think anyone's getting sq**tt*d.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh dear.

I feel a cash flow crisis coming on....

Already pre-ordered a PS4 with Arkham Knight, which should be paid for on my payday....

I could stretch to both, but I'm paying my Bro back £200 as well....

Yes, I know, first world problems and its a hard life but this really is dashed inconvenient!

[Kirsten]

it does all look rather interesting

[Mr Mystery]

Sod it.

Cancelling PS4 order, and putting cashmonies aside for this. Because I know my priorities.

Besides, I get me performance bonus in July, so will get PS4 then, innit.

[Kirsten]

how many times now have you changed your mind about buying a console? you never will get one.

[Bigred]

via Atia on B&C (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com) 6-3-2015

Age of Sigmar

- new start for warhammer fantasy, some big changes are coming
- round bases - yes
- if you want something important - you should buy it now - starting with saturday, some products will vanish

A couple of points here:
1) Atia is now the 5th rumormonger who is saying round bases - for those keeping tabs...
2) It's that last line that is the big one. We've already prevously heard that a large chunk of the existing WFB line is going to be going away forever. Mainly the fringe low volume selling items, to make room for the new WFB 9th kits and new faction expansions. This is the first word on the timing of the start of that process.

[40kGamer]

via Atia on B&C (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com) 6-3-2015

Age of Sigmar


A couple of points here:
1) Atia is now the 5th rumormonger who is saying round bases - for those keeping tabs...
2) It's that last line that is the big one. We've already prevously heard that a large chunk of the existing WFB line is going to be going away forever. Mainly the fringe low volume selling items, to make room for the new WFB 9th kits and new faction expansions. This is the first word on the timing of the start of that process.


Not looking forward to the Ebay feeding frenzy if 2 is true.

[Mr Mystery]

Still not buying 'stuff going away' rumours.

[40kGamer]

Still not buying 'stuff going away' rumours.

I really hope nothing goes away. I eventually get around to picking up a lot of odds and ends kits and I would hate for things to become rare. It's bad enough to track down the Specialist Games. Still, I can understand that some things may not be worth stocking if they need the shelf space.

[Erik Setzer]

Still not buying 'stuff going away' rumours.

I'd buy 'em.

We saw the entire world get blown up. Would removing some of the products from the game seem that shocking? Heck no. Especially if it's getting replaced with other stuff.

Like when Orks went from 2nd to 3rd edition and pretty much their entire line was replaced, and we've not since seen Madboyz, Boarboyz, two-seater Nob Bikes, Squig Catapults, (smaller) Pulsa Rokkits, Nazdreg, etc. Some stuff got replaced with new versions of the units (or characters), but quite a lot was gone for good.

[Mr Mystery]

And that's about...oooh....let's see...1998....erm....17 years ago.

But this is 2015 you know.

And with a quick think, since 1998 it's really only Pariahs that were dropped, and even then they became Lychguard/Triarch Praetorians. As with all proxies, let alone 'hey, I can represent this new unit with my old models' if anyone objects, they're almost certainly not someone you really want to playing against anyway, on account they're clearly a self important phallus

As I've covered before - the kits exist. The bulk of their cost to GW has been shouldered. There's absolutely no good financial reason to not keep them in production.

Now, these rumours can easily be from simple confusion. Already GW have streamlined the stock held in stores, and I understand the same is true of what a FLG can order for their shelves (possibly order at all, I'm not 100% on that bit). So rather than units coming out of the game, it's much more likely that said units are going direct only, to free up space for new stuff coming out on the shelves.

And with no armies being dropped (because Lizzies aren't, we can relatively safely conclude all similar rumours were bollocks), that means the army books will still be available (and as rumoured by reliable Harry, current books remain compatible with whatever it is that's coming) you'd just be punching holes in your range for no discernible reason.

Add in that GW have been making a concerted effort to piss on the chips of shonky rip off parasite merchants such as Crappyhouse, none of this adds up.

[Wildeybeast]

The only reason for getting rid of kits is if they are removing units from the books. Or because they are being replaced with shiny new kits (possibly on round bases).

[Erik Setzer]

New game, new books. There's no specific list of units. Could be just stuff like Orc Warboss on Wyvern or Vampire Counts Blood Knights, two expensive boxed sets that sit perpetually on the shelf (and the only person to buy one locally was the GW manager with his discount), using "Finecast" rather than plastic. Stuff like that being taken out of the line? Totally makes sense.

Other stuff might be replaced with newer versions, like how pretty much the entire Dark Eldar line was replaced (do you want to tell me how that was two hundred years ago so it doesn't count?). So if someone wants the current kit, they should buy it now.

And sure, GW could just be spreading rumors to drive up impulse sales for their financials, too.

[Tomgar]

Harry's actually just strongly hinted that all current army books are being withdrawn. So yeah, old army books are worthless, essentially.

Also, Atia's about as reliable as they come so if she says products are going, products are going.

[Erik Setzer]

I want to note that I'm not saying I'm 100% buying "X army will be gone for good," just that I completely understand the idea of some of the product line being phased out, especially as it moves in a new direction.

[Bigred]

WFB Age of Sigmar - MAJOR PRODUCT CHANGES Coming:

via Harry (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409361-Warhammer-9th-Rumor-Discussion-Mk-III/page23) on Warseer 6-3-2015

yeah .... about the army books .... there is some good news and some bad news. The good news is ..... OK .... actually ... there is no good news.
...I have been trying to describe a "full on reboot" for months ... or is it years now.
...You are still assuming there will be army books as you know them.
...I would not be surprised if it was one book ... or two books one for the good guys and one for the bad guys or one for the good guys one for the bad guys and some sort of additional book for the four factions.


via RaffazzaTime (http://raffazza.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/times-changin-get-ready-for-age-of.html) 6-3-2015


The first big date: June 6th

What's happening:
Stores have been told to remove the following from their shelves:

Island of Blood
Warhammer Rulebook
All WFB Army Books
All WFB End Times Books
All WFB Campaign Books/Boxes
All magic cards
Movement trays
Templates
Deathknell watch

No models or Black Library novels will be affected

Age of Sigmar preorders: 4th July
Age of Sigmar release: 11th July

[Kirsten]

no models will be affected.

[Mr Mystery]

Well......blimey.

Though this may help sort my storage issues....I'm running out of room in the tiny flat of tininess at a great rate of knots.

Will probs still keep them though. I like those books.

What's the betting we get good/bad for starters, with additional race/nation specific books after?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Models are all i care about as I still want to buy more of the tomb kings sphinx and snake models and the recent spirit host kit, couldn't care less about anything else though.

Really curious to see what new WHF models are like and if there is a new style or visual chance to them (I am hoping so)

[Erik Setzer]

Hope I can find some of the army books on the second-hand market (probably more likely once they're no longer used in the game). I'd like to have them all on my shelf, but can't drop the money needed to get the ones I don't already have right now, especially if I get the new Space Marine book.

Not sure I like the idea of a "full reboot" that also sees movement trays disappearing. And I think "templates" might mean the WFB counters/etc. set? WFB uses the same templates as 40K, so no need to yank those, and I doubt they'll change that.

[The Madman]

Got back from my local GW and the black shirt informed me about an announcement concerning Warhammer Fantasy coming this Saturday (6th June). Also he was told to confirm that no models are to be removed from the fantasy line when 9th edition hits, despite rumours about shedding some of the older kits and units.

Take it with a grain of salt but I believe him over most of the rumours here.


EDIT: on a separate note he has also been asked to send back all his Leadbelcher paint so starting Monday, there will be no Leadbelcher

[Mr Mystery]

Spray or pots?

[PointyEaredUngor]

Spray or pots?

It would be the pots. Kind of like how Abaddon Black used to be Chaos Black before the added the spray can. They're just going to rename leadbelcher.

[The Madman]

Both, he ran out of sprays and wanted more and was told that not only is he not getting any but to send back his pots as well.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm....odd, given its an important colour.

Could be a dodgy batch being returned?

[grimmas]

Name change? May be for IP reasons, could Leadbelchers be first for the chop? No way they're getting rid of what is essentially boltgun metal, I mean what will Necron players do?

As an aside anyone else getting really excited about the rumoured revamp, honestly I think I'm going to be more upset if there isn't a mass overhaul, I just hope GW has the minerals it's about bleeding time (I've been playing since third)

[Erik Setzer]

Leadbelcher would be an odd color to remove...

Not "excited" at the moment, but mainly because I'm likely going to have to hunt down bases for some of my armies to keep using them, at least for larger stuff (I think I have enough smaller square bases for now). I don't know what they're going to do with the game, so I can't see myself being "excited" until I do. Taking a classic game that's 30 years old and turning it into a completely different style of game just because of a few issues they could have easily resolved isn't something that makes me giddy. It smacks of Blizzard's whole issue with swinging a pendulum too far in making a change... in this case they swung the pendulum so far it broke.

Might be a fun game, don't know yet. But there's too much uncertainty currently. I just hope we don't get a Warhammer world version of WarmaHordes or Malifaux.

[grimmas]

That last sentence is my only fear about the situation but I'm a glass half full kind of bloke so I'm suppressing in deep deep down at the moment 😳

[Mr Mystery]

We won't.

There's no reason to do put that sort of mechanics based limitation on the game.

[Erik Setzer]

We won't.

There's no reason to do put that sort of mechanics based limitation on the game.

I like both those games, so I'm not knocking them, and they're fun to play. But if - and this is just "if" because we keep getting conflicting rumors so I'm taking it as we don't know what's going to happen - IF GW tried to copy the success of games like that with Warhammer by changing to that style game, it'll feel like such a huge change that it'll be hard to think of it as Warhammer any more. Heck, just moving to round bases, which doesn't really make sense, especially if there's rules to rank models, which isn't easy to do with round bases... and sure, you could say they sell ranking bases, which then lets the cynics note that it's a way for them to make more money, but let's skip the greed aspect and move right to how it creates potential balance issues in-game when you have current units on 20mm bases meaning more of them could get into combat, and then also how would you determine who's in combat when it gets to be a close call and you don't have base corners to check?

I'm not trying to go all negative, just saying that I can't be "excited" when I have no idea what's going to happen and whether my existing collection from over 20 years of collecting (personally) will work smoothly with the rules or I'll be having to replace everything.

I'm not good at jumping on hype trains of any sort. :-P

[Mr Mystery]

Warhammer just needs to replicate its previous success.

Malifamahordes barely touches the sides in the UK. There most certainly are those who play it, but they're relatively few and far between. Ditto Infinity.

Can't speak for the U.S., but in my experience it's very rare to find a gamer of any stripe who hasn't played Warhammer at some point.

[40kGamer]

They need to do something splashy to get customers to return or attract new players. Given the mess 40k is at the moment I don't have a lot of hope that the WFB reboot will be all that special.

[Erik Setzer]

Warhammer just needs to replicate its previous success.

Malifamahordes barely touches the sides in the UK. There most certainly are those who play it, but they're relatively few and far between. Ditto Infinity.

Can't speak for the U.S., but in my experience it's very rare to find a gamer of any stripe who hasn't played Warhammer at some point.

Well, GW used a lot of wonderful tactics like working with FLGS's, running sales, having bundles with discounts, a useful magazine full of cool articles, and generally loving what they do to build themselves up to the top... which attracted some folks who thought it was a good cash cow (ha) who've since reversed a lot of that.

Its rise to the top muscled out a lot of other games and left a lot of people having armies for GW games. And that's why a lot of people still play, because they already spent hundreds or thousands on GW products, so might as well just keep on going, right?

New games need players to build a base. But people take this attitude of "I won't play if there's not people to play with." Only, see, if people don't start playing, there's no one to play with. The same goes for stores stocking it. "We'll stock it if people will play it." "We'll play it if we can buy it from the local store." This creates a silly cycle where it's hard to get people to start on a game, because some folks have to be willing to take the risk and take money from their FLGS (or try to put in a special order) to get armies, and you usually have to have more than one, so you can demo the game for other people.

And for some reason, people stopped being willing to take a leap of faith. (Probably around the same time tournaments stopped being a place to have fun, show off a painted and converted army, and try to beat people with an army that encompassed the fluff.)

One of the local FLGS's (well, the one actually called "FLGS") just got in the Bolt Action rulebooks last week, and some starter sets this week. I felt kind of bad buying the rulebooks a couple weeks ago (didn't know he was going to get them in) on Amazon, even though the Kindle versions were silly cheap... less than $35 for the rulebook, British army book, and German army book (my friend wants to play Germans). But now he's got models in, so I can start buying there, and hopefully things will pick up. Meanwhile, people are getting into the Star Wars games, because you can even get them at some of the chain bookstores (like Barnes & Noble) as well as pretty much every game store.

GW's banking on their being the "top dog" and people being afraid to invest in other games, but I don't think that's going to last, and I think that's part of what hurt WFB and will start eating into 40K. People like games they can get into and play an interesting match with options for less than $200. Meanwhile, GW's two remaining games are a $135 buy-in just for the rules, and $65 won't get you a usable army, especially as they tried to strip all the small game rules out of the rulebooks to encourage people to spend more (oops, that backfired).

All WFB really needed was to add the Skirmish and Warbands rules back into the game, make them part of the rulebook, make the rules cheaper, fix some of the worse prices (they could probably get away with a lot, but not stuff like Witch Elves or Blood Knights), and a little clean-up. No need to swap to round bases and all that.

But eh... I'm willing to be a pioneer. They've already convinced me to drag most of my money away and put it into other games, and I'm willing to get multiple armies for various systems in order to build them up. Heck, I can still get into three, maybe four, systems with two forces and the rules for what one GW army cost me.

[Mr Mystery]

And we still don't know that a (for want of a better term) multiple scaled game isn't whet we're about to get, and I'd say the recent rumours point to the game not being made small scale skirmish....

Withno kits being withdrawn, it's bloody hard to see how something such as Malekith could fit into a small scale game when it's a bloody expensive single model. Malekith The Eternity King just ups those points.

Now, introduction of smaller scale rules which sit alongside large battle rules do help to explain why some said whole units are being dropped.....it's a misunderstanding between 'not in the skirmish rules' and 'no longer available in the game at all at all'

But we shall have to wait and see.

[Mr Mystery]

Just thinking a bit further....

How many of the products being allegedly withdrawn (always allegedly until it's done!) are due to repackaging? Templates are nice, but look dated in terms of packaging.

Wouldn't be the first time! Ditto movement trays.

[Wildeybeast]

Riddle me this; why would you pull all the Warhammer stuff from sale five weeks before offering anything else? Surely you'd want to run your old stock down as much as possible. Indeed, I cant recall GW ever pulling rules for sale before a new edition. Secondly, why have models still for sale but no rules? You aren't going to attract any new buyers and existing players are very unlikely to buy models when they have no army book as they will be suspicious about whether said shiny new model will still exist. Either GW have lost all business sense (not to mention going against their previous behaviour) or something about these rumours doesn't add up.

[Mr Mystery]

Some stuff has been in the past.

Guess it depends how radical the new edition is. My bet? Not as radical as we might think.

[Erik Setzer]

Just thinking a bit further....

How many of the products being allegedly withdrawn (always allegedly until it's done!) are due to repackaging? Templates are nice, but look dated in terms of packaging.

Wouldn't be the first time! Ditto movement trays.

Movement trays are moot if the game moves to round bases, as they're made for square bases. And by "templates" I think they might mean the set of WFB goodies that includes, among other things, a unit turning template, which isn't that useful when the default isn't ranked units. So it makes sense to drop those rather than continue making them. They might get replaced by something else.

They could easily do a scaling game without going the round base route. The bases are what bother me, really, especially as - unless you do like I'm going to and seek out square bases for new models - new additions to an existing army won't look right. And you can't really do traditional WFB with round bases, it has to have some kind of fundamental change at the core.

[Mr Mystery]

If I'm right in recalling, only 'Birds In The Trees' has said there's a solitary model apparently coming with only round(ed, oval to be precise :p) base....and that's so not a reliable source!

[Erik Setzer]

I thought I'd seen more of that popping up?

It's part of the problem I have with GW right now... You have no idea what's coming down the pipeline. They're paranoid about everything and don't even prepare their own store managers properly. This is a huge shakeup of one of their major product lines, but they won't even officially announce that's happening, or what's happening with it.

As contrast, not only do other companies give people advance notice, but a lot of times will give people an idea of what's changing, and sometimes will take feedback from the customers. When D&D needed a new edition to erase the mistake of 4th edition, they did a lot of playtesting with people around the world while building the new rule set, and, as a result, followed up the hot mess of 4th edition D&D with a new edition so popular the Player's Handbook is tricky to track down in stock.

So here we are, 50% of GW's games on the line, and we're stuck relying on conflicting rumors and grasping at anything we get. Because somehow GW's even worse at how it treats its customers than EA is.

[Path Walker]

Whatever Age of Sigmar means is going to be pretty cool, the last few years have been the best time for the hobby I've ever know in my 21 years of being in it. Even if they utterly change Fantasy, its better than just letting it die a slow death, they've recognised that people are playing it less and less and have addressed that issue.

I'd also point out that there was nothing at all wrong with 4th edition D&D, its a perfect example of how internet forums can get out of hand and ruin a product, it was a great game, the tactical combat aspect of it more balanced and easy to run than ever, as much as I've enjoyed 5th Edition so far, its still a fair bit behind in the combat model compared with 4th, its looser and allows for more interpretation and play styles, which I enjoy, but its still a lot more fiddly. 4th suffered from a bad review saying it was like World of Warcraft (in that it has power cool downs) and that opinion spread. People who never played it still pan it as a mistake, when really it was just an edition that expected (correctly) that most people had access to a computer while playing and offered to organise that online.

[Kirsten]

I am hoping the rumours of a skirmish game is true, I'd get in to that.

[Path Walker]

Anything that means I don't have to buy 3 boxes to make 1 viable unit would be good, either more skirmish rules or limits to unit size, call me old fashioned, but I miss the days when 30 Orcs was a massive unit!

[40kGamer]

I'm really hoping the 3 scale game proves true. From Mordheim style to the current Apocalypse like games with something in between.

[Erik Setzer]

I am hoping the rumours of a skirmish game is true, I'd get in to that.

I hope the idea of both (all?) scales is true. It'd be great to choose (once again, finally) whether you want to go big or go small. Keeping the big games in would be good for people with existing collections or who build up new collections, but skirmish would be good to do (somewhat) quicker games and get more people in at a lower entry cost.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm really hoping the 3 scale game proves true. From Mordheim style to the current Apocalypse like games with something in between.

This.

Skirmish is fun - Mordheim proved that yonks ago, and dare I say it, it even improved on Necromunda by having henchmen groups who never got that ridiculously hard.

This time around? I'd like to see a skirmish scaled game with wider choices, but only really needing four or five kits to get on the board.

[Erik Setzer]

If they can figure out a way to make it work with, say, a character and two infantry boxes, with some variety in the infantry, that'd be cool. Sucker someone in with "Hey, just buy this wizard and this box of swordsmen and this box of archers," and then as they get excited, you slowly push them to expand, until they've got enough for bigger games and also more options for the skirmish games. Alternately, someone could just pick up multiple small forces.

If the rules work for it, I might have a reason to finally get down the Dwarf army in my closet and work on them. It's about 3000 points of Dwarfs, but in kind of odd combinations, because it was an early 6th boxed army at its core IIRC, and some stuff from a couple of WFB starter boxes, plus some assorted kits on the side tossed in. But at skirmish level, it's okay to only have ten Ironbreakers or ten Slayers, that's all you need. Might even be able to use my Beastmen, who are missing their Core Units (but maybe they can just be mixed in with Chaos from the start again).

I want to be excited, but I don't want myself to get hyped and then find out it's not as good as I expected. Better to expect less, so if it's more, that feels like a "bonus." And if I get what I'm expecting, well, I can't really be disappointed, because I expected it.

[grimmas]

Well Erik that was the idea with LOTR and WOTR, it didn't quite work as planned because the people "suckered in" usually went on to WFB but the idea is sound.

It's very much what I'm hoping for because I'm very keen on anything that get more people playing WFB

Mystery I'd wager we'll see a LOTR size skirmish game rather than Mordhiem size, with about 3 boxes/characters being the minimum rather than the one a Mordhiem scale game would need. GW do like to keep sales ticking over. I wouldn't be disappointed to see the return of a Mordhiem style game but I seem to remember them only being money spinners for a short time with things dropping off dramatically after the initial splash.

[Erik Setzer]

I was able to play LOTR with just 22 models at 500 points, two boxes and a pair of characters. Maybe twice the size of a Mordheim warband, yeah, but still not that big.

Granted, I was playing Legolas, Tauriel, and Mirkwood Rangers. Not the cheapest foot models in the game, but they were worth the price.

LOTR was fun, but it might be nice to have the smaller games of Warhammer have a bit more detailed rules. LOTR games went by fast, maybe too fast for Warhammer players.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh, and whilst they're at it....

Warhammer Quest!

If the rumours are accurate, and we'll be seeing homogenised lists and a way to play smaller scale games, now is the perfect time to reintroduce what was frankly the greatest dungeoneering game I have ever played.

Enlarge the collection with a box here....box there....oh, and a big bad....well spank my buns, spin my nipple nuts and slap yer Mam, I've pretty much got enough for a small army!.

I can dream :)

[Erik Setzer]

If they were smart, they'd be all over re-introducing Warhammer Quest. Or at least license it to someone else. Ditto Blood Bowl. WHQ has done pretty good on the computer, and a lot of people would snatch up a physical version in a heartbeat. I'm one of those folks.

If they don't want to put resources into it, let FFG deal with it. FFG's done well by GW IP so far, and specialize in that kind of thing.

[Tomgar]

Far as round bases go, I believe Atia, Harry and Darnok have all stated that they're coming. Let's just say I'm not putting much salt on that rumour, if any.

On the plus side of all this talk about Fantasy skirmishing, I think I'll start me a wee Hobbit army! All the staff guys at my local GW seem pretty into it and it's got a nice low model count so why not? :D

[Brakkart]

How many of the products being allegedly withdrawn (always allegedly until it's done!) are due to repackaging?

No longer allegedly as I can confirm this to be true. I helped my local GW Store manager take a load of product off the shelves today, including the Isle of Blood box, Warhammer rule book, all Warhammer supplements (inc the End Times books) and army books, all Warhammer templates, cards and even the Modular Movement Trays. Deathknell Watch went too and the Garden of Morr would have gone if the store had any left in stock. He is going to be contacting GW to see what to do about the couple Witchfate Tor sets he still has in stock as they weren't mentioned in the instructions he got sent.

[Mr Mystery]

Fair enough :)

Curious, the web store is still selling the End Times, Army Books (well, Lizardmen one, haven't checked them all :p), modular movement trays and template set?

[Wildeybeast]

And all the army books and the rule books.

[Tomgar]

Fair enough :)

Curious, the web store is still selling the End Times, Army Books (well, Lizardmen one, haven't checked them all :p), modular movement trays and template set?

I reckon you might be right about a repack tbh. If the game still allows for round AND square bases, we'll still movement trays so they're probably just getting rebranded as "Age of Sigmar." Just my guess anyway! Bit disturbed at some of the rumourmongers talking about a lot of character models getting the chop though.

[Erik Setzer]

Fair enough :)

Curious, the web store is still selling the End Times, Army Books (well, Lizardmen one, haven't checked them all :p), modular movement trays and template set?

Why stop selling them? They've sold army books and supplements right up to the day the new one came out, knowing that in a few days it'd be outdated and anyone buying one would have to buy the replacement. Since the stuff's already in the warehouse, might as well try to sell it and make some money on last-minute panic sales. With the retail stores, they likely need the space for other stuff, and are possibly prepping for a new setup for their Warhammer products in-store. Or they just figure it's easier to consolidate everything at a central location, especially if they want to be ready to sell it to someone or just mark it off as a loss all at once. Or it could be a combination of the above.

[Trojan66]

The difference this time is that army books will no longer feature rather than just getting up dated.
Rules will come in the box and army restrictions a thing of the past. As consistently predicted for months...

[Mr Mystery]

And all the army books and the rule books.

My local GW still had the books out when I drove past?

- - - Updated - - -


Why stop selling them? They've sold army books and supplements right up to the day the new one came out, knowing that in a few days it'd be outdated and anyone buying one would have to buy the replacement. Since the stuff's already in the warehouse, might as well try to sell it and make some money on last-minute panic sales. With the retail stores, they likely need the space for other stuff, and are possibly prepping for a new setup for their Warhammer products in-store. Or they just figure it's easier to consolidate everything at a central location, especially if they want to be ready to sell it to someone or just mark it off as a loss all at once. Or it could be a combination of the above.

Point is it its curious stores are returning stock, but it's still available online. You'd think it'd be both one way or the other.

[Wildeybeast]

Sorry, I meant they were all still available online.

[daboarder]

Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha.


Oh you apologists crack me up


Hahaha hahaha

[Tomgar]

Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha.


Oh you apologists crack me up


Hahaha hahaha

I don't consider myself an apologist for GW by any means. I'm very critical of them (because they're a multi-million quid corporation and not my friend) and I'm actually quitting Fantasy due to the direction they've taken it. I just reckon repacks make sense, especially with GW's weird fetish for making sure every item must have 100% accurate branding, even if it doesn't actually get changed.

[Denken]

I went to my GW store today and they still sell all the books, Island of Blood and the rest but the just removed them from display to annouce Age of Sigmar.

[Erik Setzer]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the idea that they'll go back on the shelf once AoS comes out. I think they'll keep selling them until the new edition is officially on shelves. But if they weren't being removed, there's no reason to take the books, movement trays, and counters off the shelves, and put up that many AoS flyers (and they did the same at the local GW). You can easily advertise AoS with the enormous posters they sent to put up all over the store, without making it difficult for people to buy stuff that will still be viable.

There's no way you can convince me that it's true that the books, counters, cards, and movement trays will still be used in AoS. There's no logical explanation for removing them from the shelves. At best, the attempts to say "Well, I can buy them if I ask" is just telling me that they're willing to sell the stock right up until it's outdated, in order to make money off of something that will otherwise be marked as a loss and destroyed. (I'd believe the idea of local stores doing that, too, since I've seen books that are pulled off the shelf end up in the dumpster with the covers torn off, meaning the books will literally be a loss if they can't move that product.)

But claiming GW took stuff of the shelves to advertise for a new edition in which it'd all be useful, making it hard for people to buy stuff they can still use? Nope. Only way that happens is if the management is even dumber than I already feel it is.

[daboarder]

I don't consider myself an apologist for GW by any means. I'm very critical of them (because they're a multi-million quid corporation and not my friend) and I'm actually quitting Fantasy due to the direction they've taken it. I just reckon repacks make sense, especially with GW's weird fetish for making sure every item must have 100% accurate branding, even if it doesn't actually get changed.

I highly doubt its just a repack. Harry has never been that far off the mark. EVER!

but that aside i wasnt talking about you tomgar so no stress man

[Solution9]

Hate to say it but there has been mistakes made in the past. Not necessarily huge mistakes but there were. For example. It was reported that Bretonians were on the horizon. Well we all know where that went. Another thing, the End Times was supposedly 1 book then the 5 its now and the order was completely mixed up. There have been other little things but to say on the mark? I don't think so . On the whole however, quite accurate. However, with all that said I choose to remain dubious till the next iteration of Warhammer is available.

[Tomgar]

I highly doubt its just a repack. Harry has never been that far off the mark. EVER!

but that aside i wasnt talking about you tomgar so no stress man


Fair dos :)

[daboarder]

Hate to say it but there has been mistakes made in the past. Not necessarily huge mistakes but there were. For example. It was reported that Bretonians were on the horizon. Well we all know where that went. Another thing, the End Times was supposedly 1 book then the 5 its now and the order was completely mixed up. There have been other little things but to say on the mark? I don't think so . On the whole however, quite accurate. However, with all that said I choose to remain dubious till the next iteration of Warhammer is available.

Not by harry though and rhat is the point

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/448304.page

[Vaseline]

Some of the rumours going around seem to still be scaremongering.

I can tell you for a fact lizardmen are going nowhere but will be getting a new army book.
Beastmen are not getting deleted but will as previously in the past be rolled into just a chaos book.

Movement trays are getting replaced but that's a given. Everyone knows the IoB set will be outdated when a new edition is released so that is not to worry over.

A new army is coming. Not a combo army.

The end times events are an alternate ending that would of played out but Sigmar intervenes, the new edition takes place during the events leading to the end times with the tide sifted towards order with the introduction of a new powerful army of order. This will be in basic terms a fantasy space marine army.

[Kirsten]

it is interesting that we are getting a month's notice for this, GW are obviously looking to build excitement.

[Erik Setzer]

Not a "repack." You can't "repack" books, and if they changed the logo, why not redo all the current boxes on the wall, too? They started changing the packaging for some stuff, but as they were doing it, they weren't pulling stuff from the shelves (some Daemons have gotten new white boxes... strangely, I think the local GW got sent another one with the old box style, meaning they still had some in the warehouse that weren't changed over).

I know people want to hope beyond hope that all the army books and stuff are still valid, but the likelihood is a completely new game. New bases, new rules, new army lists. The models might be valid for now, but even that might change over time.

[Mr Mystery]

https://booksend.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/bloomsbury-covers.jpg

http://booksend.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/bloomsbury-adult-covers.jpg

Yeah you can :)

All current books have 'Warhammer Armies' as their main title. New covers could be updated to be 'Age of Sigmar Armies' or what have you.

Movement trays - possibly replaced, possibly repackaged with the white labelling we've seen for End Times, which appears to be the shape of things to come.

End of the day, nobody really knows what's coming.

And for someone who apparently can't abide stupid, a certain poster might want to take into consideration that an 'apologist' cannot be such when we're talking about rumours instead of facts.

Indeed, said poster might want to look up the definition of the term....because it really doesn't apply.

Now, if they'd said something like 'omg look at these fools not lapping up every rumour as if it's cast iron fact, and instead adopting an entirely rational approach of waiting for the evidence' they might be on to something.

But of course, empty vessels make the most noise, and aren't terribly keen on accuracy when there's a nice juicy name you can call someone.

And it's precisely that they aren't pulling anything from the shelves models wise that has me intrigued. Given the books aren't on show now (gone from my local GW, contrary to my earlier approach - see 'certain poster', that's called having a fluid position), if square bases were offski entirely, you'd expect those boxes to be sent back and replaced with repacks including the round/oval bases as well/instead of. But they haven't.

Strange things are afoot in the Old World... Tried to get more out my local manager, but he remained tight lipped, but did mention he's got a meeting at Lenton the weekend before. Make of that what you will.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm also intrigued by the name - Age of Sigmar.

If Siggy is still kicking about, who else is surprisingly not-dead?

[Trojan66]

Books are gone lads, don't need them as the army structure has gone too...read your end times books lads...it's all there clear as glass. Oh and some of us do know what's coming up MM...and have had the decency to try and share with you all for months...but we get shouted down as a liar if we're not called Harry !

[Erik Setzer]

Ooooo... New printings of books can have different covers! YOWZERS!!! Of course, since 40K's changed the logo and look of books over time and didn't pull books to replace them, that throws out the concept GW would bother putting money into changing the cover of a book just because of a logo change. Further, I was talking about how you can't change an existing book's cover, which should be blatantly clear to anyone not being argumentative or confusing who he's responding to (I didn't use the term "apologists," that was someone else). And you can't do that. You'd have to find some way to deconstruct the book and rebuild it, which is not cheap. Given that this is a company that will throw away White Dwarf issues that are a week old rather than try to sell them because shelf space costs money, or will tear the covers off of books and toss them in a dumpster rather than recycle them once they're outdated, I don't see them trying to find some way to pay for taking books apart and remaking them. I don't even see them redoing the covers, unless it's a hardcore rebranding. But at that point, why not also redo all of the unit boxes? Why not pull them from the shelves?

Simple questions that you don't ask because it wrecks your idea.

Your local manager is tight-lipped because he doesn't know much of anything. He can't. They don't tell him anything.

And since you're not breaking up your responses or directing them by name, I'll assume they're directed to the same person, which will likely be me given the top part of the post. Before I go further, I want to thank you for demonstrating how someone can be wrong, continue to try to hold a firm stand on being wrong, show a laughable example of "look, this can happen!" that misses the point, all while being insulting. I wouldn't be insulting in return, but no, you deserve to be insulted if you make offensive comments that are also dead wrong.

My position's never been that they'll say in the books "You can't use square bases!" And if they aren't going to say that, why spend money to replace bases in existing boxes? You can just sell the round bases (like they do), and people will buy those if they want everything on round bases. Only thing I've ever said is I won't (can't, really) change my completed armies over to round bases, and anything new I buy for them will get square bases so they fit the visual of my army. If you want to take issue with how I choose to make my army look, you can "put your opinion in a place the sun doesn't shine," to put it as nicely as possible. You do your army as you want, I'll do what I want with mine.

But hey, thanks for touching on that point! If they're going to yank books for a rebranding, why not also yank the models to rebrand *and* pack appropriate bases?

You're scared that the rumors will be right that they're wiping out all the existing books and basically creating a new game, because then all the people who were seriously concerned would be shown to have had valid concerns, and it'll be hard to find some way to tell them all they're just being negative jerks and not realizing how awesome and gracious Games Workshop is for giving us this game to begin with.

Frankly, I don't care. I'm not wasting money on Warhammer right now, and I'll decide what to do when the new game comes out, if the rules are a reasonable cost. If they have an $85 or more rulebook, I'll download it online, or just skip the game entirely. I'm sick of overpriced books, overpriced models, and other sheer stupidity - we're not even getting into the business practices that increasingly take a steaming dump on local game stores in their attempt to build an ultra-niche market. I'm not going to buy into a new game if that's what they want to morph it into. I might wait a year to see if they really are going to try to phase out the existing stuff and replace it. If so, I'm done. There are other new games I can get into, and if I'm going to get into a new game, it'll be one with a reasonable cost by a company that isn't run by customer-unfriendly idiots.

For now, I'm waiting and seeing. Trying to remain optimistic, but it's hard to maintain a positive attitude when people say something wrong and then continue to try to back it in ways that are an insult to the intelligence of everyone reading this thread. (Again, in case it hasn't sank in yet: Future printings with a new cover, which GW's never done, are not the same as taking the cover off of an already printed book and replacing it. They are also not something GW's done.)

[Houghten]

Books are gone lads, don't need them as the army structure has gone too...read your end times books lads...it's all there clear as glass.
We'd still need at least one book with points costs in, 'cos they're not in the End Times books.

[Trojan66]

What makes you think there will still be points values. It's a brave new world amigo...

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You should stay positive man ! It will be very different, but that's a good thing.
still get to use all your figures but in a new way, no more massed painting sessions to get 1 unit done. Hurrah i say ! I agree not to get anything til they drop it, and it's way too long a wait, but it will be cool.

[Al Shut]

And since you're not breaking up your responses or directing them by name, I'll assume they're directed to the same person, which will likely be me given the top part of the post.

Nah, he's clearly talking about either daboarder or Lord Voldemort. It just sounds strange because he's given up on talking to him directly.



still get to use all your figures but in a new way

Yeah, as paper weight

[40kGamer]

What makes you think there will still be points values. It's a brave new world amigo...

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You should stay positive man ! It will be very different, but that's a good thing.
still get to use all your figures but in a new way, no more massed painting sessions to get 1 unit done. Hurrah i say ! I agree not to get anything til they drop it, and it's way too long a wait, but it will be cool.

If they are going to use a meaningless PV system like they have in 40k they may as well throw them out. They should just go with the purely scenario driven army selection method used by many if not most historical rule sets.

[Erik Setzer]

Nah, he's clearly talking about either daboarder or Lord Voldemort. It just sounds strange because he's given up on talking to him directly.

Breaking up responses is useful, and it sounds like there was confusion over who said what. I might have reacted stronger than I should, and I do feel kind of bad about that (contrary to popular belief, I do know *some* shame), but it felt like a combative post directed at me.

I'm not sure what other people might have said, I skip some folks and some parts of a conversation (where it starts going too far off the rails).

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What makes you think there will still be points values. It's a brave new world amigo...

Yeeeeeaaaahhh.... If they make a miniatures game without points values for people to build their own (theoretically) balanced armies, there's going to be a lot of people just up and dropping the game. If folks want to play make-believe battles without coherent rules, they can easily do that without spending hundreds or thousands of dollars (or at least use that money for a more interesting way of doing so).

[Trojan66]

I don't think it would be that bad . Most gamers play in a fairly small circle of friends and are unlikly to dick each other with uber armies, a few staff members might but they try anyway ! I for one would be happy to pension off the over worked calculator and try a different approach...but who knows !

[Erik Setzer]

It's nice to say "most gamers play with friends" but, well... that's not really how it works for "most" gamers, and certainly not for new gamers who walk into a store, see the games, and want to get involved, but don't know anyone there.

So let's assume it works for groups of friends. Locally, I'd guess probably 60-70% would then drop out. It would be next to impossible to add new people. So the game would rapidly become even less profitable. Yeah, sounds good.

If there's something like "You can take X and Y and Z if you're doing this," which is basically similar to points, then that's not so bad. "Take what you feel like," however, is a remarkably stupid idea for a game, and I could just buy a bag of army men and do make believe war at that point.

[Houghten]

What makes you think there will still be points values. It's a brave new world amigo...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnfDXznMf0E

[Trojan66]

Don't get too bent out of shape, I'm only spit balling, might not happen !
Love the Arnie tag...btw

[Kirsten]

yeah points costs aren't going anywhere.

[daboarder]

Nah, he's clearly talking about either daboarder or Lord Voldemort. It just sounds strange because he's given up on talking to him directly.
Yeah he's sad like that.....


But despite all his clambering about bad rumours the FACT, recorded and tracked on DAKKA is that Harry has historically over years been accurate roughly 90% of the time.

So mystery can cry whinge and apologise all he wants but his hot air is unsubstantiated opinion, Harry's is supported by his accurate history.

I know which one any intelligent person should be likely to believe.

[Paintingplasticcrack]

Yeah he's sad like that.....


But despite all his clambering about bad rumours the FACT, recorded and tracked on DAKKA is that Harry has historically over years been accurate over 90% of the time.

So mystery can cry whinge and apologise all he wants but his hot air is unsubstantiated opinion, Harry's is supported by his accurate history.

I know which one any intelligent person should be likely to believe.

I find the ignore function makes for a much more sensible thread and forum for that matter ;).
All the usual suspects are on mine and I'm enjoying BoLs so much more for using it.
Personally really intrigued with what's going to happen with WH, as I just can't get my kids into 40k. Fantasy on the other hand has models they really like. I will be all over the new starter set when it hits.

[daboarder]

I find the ignore function makes for a much more sensible thread and forum for that matter ;).
All the usual suspects are on mine and I'm enjoying BoLs so much more for using it.
Personally really intrigued with what's going to happen with WH, as I just can't get my kids into 40k. Fantasy on the other hand has models they really like. I will be all over the new starter set when it hits.

Oh sure, and I tried it for a bit, but even the worst occasionally post something well thought out and relevant and I hate to miss things like that.

Plus I was more pointing things out for others that may not be aware just HOW accurate Harry regularly is and may therefore be swayed by mystery's silly arguments.

Personally, I am seriously skeptical of the shakeup of fantasy, the games strongest point has ALWAYS been the IP and to piss that away on the breeze is just nonsensical to me. particularity when the major problems with the game (entry cost and balance) could be readily identified and addressed with a little market research (GW doesn't believe in that by the way)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I loved the Warhammer World as it was. I do think it had a tendency to be a bit static, but blowing it up and replacing it wouldn't have been my first inclination. That said, I thought the End Times was great fun; certainly the most ambitious GW's been in a long time (even if I don't agree with absolutely everything that happened, and some books were definitely stronger than others, I enjoyed the ride). I'm excited to see, finally, what we're getting next - I'm tentatively optimistic - and I hope the Old World lingers on in some form (as End Times, perhaps?).

On problems: to high entry cost and balance (I definitely agree with the former; agree a bit less strongly with the latter) could be added an initially daunting ruleset. It's not that hard when you get used to it, but for a new player it can look like a mammoth ****tonne of rules to learn, especially with the enormous rulebook. If all three of those points are being addressed in the new game/edition/whatever it is (the lack of solid information has been galling this past 9 months or so!) then Warhammer will be around for a good long time yet. If not, well, they already tried the nuclear option, as it were...

[40kGamer]

Oh sure, and I tried it for a bit, but even the worst occasionally post something well thought out and relevant and I hate to miss things like that.

Plus I was more pointing things out for others that may not be aware just HOW accurate Harry regularly is and may therefore be swayed by mystery's silly arguments.

Personally, I am seriously skeptical of the shakeup of fantasy, the games strongest point has ALWAYS been the IP and to piss that away on the breeze is just nonsensical to me. particularity when the major problems with the game (entry cost and balance) could be readily identified and addressed with a little market research (GW doesn't believe in that by the way)

I'm all about the blind squirrel finding that acorn every now and again. :)

Also thanks for the link... I didn't realize just how accurate Harry was until you popped it in. Regardless I'm still in disbelief that GW would blow everything up and start from scratch... unless the game was in such a bad place they felt there was nothing to lose, or maybe they believe it's an opportunity to build a new, more exclusive IP.

[daboarder]

I'm all about the blind squirrel finding that acorn every now and again. :)

Also thanks for the link... I didn't realize just how accurate Harry was until you popped it in. Regardless I'm still in disbelief that GW would blow everything up and start from scratch... unless the game was in such a bad place they felt there was nothing to lose, or maybe they believe it's an opportunity to build a new, more exclusive IP.

Sure, and historically Background rumours are the most likely to be wrong (due to different interpretations of what people are reading etc etc)

However, it seems likely that this is what GW has done this time.