How to choose an Army

[skilgannan]

Hi all,

I am new to 40k and have ordered the box set. I am wondering what army I should choose to build up. Ideally I would like to pick either Dark angels or chaos space marines as they are in the box set. how do you find out about each army without the codex's as I don't want to buy both at the moment. Any advise would be appreciated.

Many Thanks

Tim

[Defenestratus]

Hi all,

I am new to 40k and have ordered the box set. I am wondering what army I should choose to build up. Ideally I would like to pick either Dark angels or chaos space marines as they are in the box set. how do you find out about each army without the codex's as I don't want to buy both at the moment. Any advise would be appreciated.

Many Thanks

Tim

Personally speaking, all I need to pick an army is available on GW's website. I care more about the models and aesthetic of an army and the models are my determining factor as to whether I'll start an army or not.

If you're looking for fluff-based background - then checking out the different 40k wiki's out there can help. Here's the popular one: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page#.UTYwPBxwpJk

Good luck! I remember when I first got into the hobby and was blown away by what was available, and that was 20 years ago! :P

[Nabterayl]

Your best bet is to ask other players, so ... here we are! I don't know how much reading you've done already, so are you looking for a general overview of both CSM and Dark Angels, or do you have more specific questions you prefer we focus on first? We're happy to help.

[Dalleron]

When picking an army, there are two general things to consider. The first being pick an army that has models you like. It will make painting them easier. The second is pick an army that can do what you want it to do. For example, if you want an assaulty army that gets up close and personal, don't pick Tau, pick BA. If you want to stand back and send bullets down range, then Tau or IG would be your best.

Space Marine armies are supposed to be jack of all trades, but some do certain things better than others.

[skilgannan]

Hiya,

I have done absolutley no reading what-so-ever so I have no idea about any of the armies. What am wondering is what sort of tactics do the armies use ie. does dark angels suit fast light units with the odd heavy support? If you can't tell I am a complete noob.

[Nabterayl]

Ah, ok. Well, here is my take on DA and CSM:

Firstly, space marines in general, since both DA and CSM are essentially flavors of space marine. Some people like to describe space marines as the jacks of all trades. I prefer to describe them as airborne troops: they don't have as much heavy support as some other armies, but their troops are high quality enough that they can do many things pretty well even beyond the unit's primary role. In addition, space marines have a lot of ways to get into position where you want them. Versatility, precision insertion, and having to do much with few models are the hallmarks of the space marine.

Chaos space marines are less like airborne and more like heavy infantry. They have less in the way of specialized insertion techniques, and they have fewer versatile units (though the basic Chaos space marine is a hugely versatile troop type, and in many ways more formidable than his loyalist counterpart. In exchange, CSM get access to more extremes of power - both high and low. Those cultists that come in the Dark Vengeance set are perfect for doing mundane things like holding relatively secure objectives that don't need to be held by a full-fledged space marine. That's an option loyalist marines just don't have. At the other extreme, CSM get access to some very powerful specialist units that are less versatile, but generally better at their given specialty, than their nearest loyalist counterpart.

Dark Angels are space marines who are particularly good at shooting, and especially shooting heavy infantry. That's not to say that they have no assault units (like all flavors of space marine, Dark Angels must do many tasks with a fairly small number of bodies), but as an army, they are somewhat better at blasting and somewhat less focused on assault. They also have the option to deploy very elite motorbike and/or terminator-armored (i.e., guys in big hulking specialist power armor) troops, either in support of the regular Dark Angels marines or even as their own army entirely.

If you are looking for small, fast, and elite with some heavier support, I think Dark Angels are going to suit you much better than Chaos marines. While Chaos armies can certainly be that, the Dark Angels codex is designed to do it, and so gives you more ways to fulfill that vision.

[skilgannan]

Hiya,


Thank you for the responses. I have certainly chosen. With what has been said here and what I read on Lexicanum just now and more importantly what I want to paint. I have chosen to go with Dark Angels.

Thank you very much for the advice.

Tim

[Nabterayl]

Excellent! I hope they bring you many hours of enjoyment!

[Power Klawz]

Specifically considering the two armies mentioned I think you'll find that Dark Angels have a lot more available "straight out the box."

In terms of model support at least. They use basic space marines as troops and those models are the most well supported in Game's Workshop's whole line. You will not want for plastic. Their recent model release basically shored up any discrepancies they might have had in terms of model support so that, basically, any unit you could feasibly want to field has a dedicated model (and hell, even some unfeasible units.)

Chaos Space Marines, on the other hand, suffer from a bit of a generation gap in their model line. (I am staring at you, basic chaos space marine box set, staring at you with all 8 terrible eyes of the damned.) You got some love in the form of a few recent releases (most of which are of dubious table-top utility except for the universally loved Helldrake) but your basic troopers and most of your elites are aging kits, and you wouldn't be hard pressed to find people who'd describe them as "janky as hell."

So for an ideal beginner army I don't think you could do much better than Dark Angels. They have a variety of great looking models and a brand new codex that doesn't have Matt Ward all over it. You get the product support most Xenos players would undergo Terminatus for and an appreciable level of "street cred" with a fairly well balanced army list. Dark Angels are certainly no one trick pony on the table and can just as easily be constructed to be an efficient and tactically challenging force as they can be LOLTERMYSPAM.

If you, on the other hand, would prefer an army that you'll have to build half out of twine and play-dough whilst suffering the slings and arrows of outrageously insufficient model support (WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE LIGHTNING CLAWS CHAOS TERMINATORS?!) then go for the Chaos Marines. In a lot of ways a model line that doesn't provide you with everything can lead to a lot of creativity. Finding the right image for your slavering space vikings involves a lot more work than the almost comical color coding of loyalist marines. You'll end up doing more work, but you'll probably end up with a much more personalized product.

In terms of playstyle I have limited experience with both armies. Dark Angels are first and foremost Space Marines. They've got boltguns, better armor than God and an unshakeable faith in the Emprah, which basically means when the bullets and severed torsos start flying they will stand their ground. Dark Angels are even more ridiculously steadfast than vanilla marines, generally speaking they'll keep plugging away at whatever it is that's rushing towards them come hell or high water, sometimes quite literally in the case of the former. Where DA differ significantly from the boys in blue is in their specialized elite units. They have access to two very potent options, the Deathwing and the Ravenwing.

Without going into too much fluff, the Deathwing are everything good about terminators multiplied by 2. Normal terminators are pretty horrific to begin with, start talking about fearless ones who twin link their shots after deep striking or can strike at strength 10 AT INITIATIVE and you've got the recipe for some beatdown gumbo.

The Ravenwing are what would happen if all those kids at the skate park riding BMX bikes were snatched up and turned into superhuman death machines. (Minus the ritalin, I guess.) They are very fast, very shooty and pretty handy in a scrap. Ravenwing Knights are the cool kids of the bunch who roll around with plasma guns sticking out of their spokes. The Ravenwing constitute a very fast, very reliable strike force that can engage the enemy quickly and work very well in support of the greenwing, and when used in concert with the Deathwing they can pull off some combos that you'd be hard pressed to beat in any list.

Chaos Marines are very much about ripping things that aren't chaos marines into bite size pieces. They are sooo mad that most of them probably can't even remember what exactly they are mad about, which only makes them madder. They have a lot of weird gribbly monsters and mutated freaks that basically mulch infantry of varying densities. Each of the chaos gods has it own particular vintage of mayhem.

Khorne is all about crashing into soft fleshy things in order to rip and tear. They are your standard power-armored berserker types who will drown your foes in an avalanche of blood and other less savory bodily fluids (or die trying.)

Tzeentch is kind of a mixed bag. In game terms, Tzeentch generally means sorcerous whatsits or nigh-indestructible infantry (due to sorverous whatsits). Sadly Tzeentch's psychic powers aren't all that amazing in their current iteration, but they do a fine job of making things explode into multi-colored warp confetti.

Slaanesh is the god of excess and over-indulgence. His troops are generally pretty quick (due to drugs, most likely) and have all sorts of esoteric methods of death delivery (most of which ignore cover saves, which is nice.)

Nurgle is the god of being disgusting. His troops are basically walking bags of filth and pestilence. Seeing as they're all already overcome by hyper-space-cancer not much else causes them discomfort. They are extremely tough and generally make their careers out of sitting on top of things that are strategically important and being impossible to move. (and even if you do manage to move them you're probably going to want to at least Febreeze the hell out of whatever it was that they were sitting on.)

Hope this info helps some.

[skilgannan]

Now I just need to find people in the area who also do 40k.

[OrksOrksOrks]

There are some Dark Angel books available as well that you might like, the ones set in the Horus Heresy, not sure if you know about that yet, are great for learning the formations of the Dark Angels and exactly what their terrible secret is, well worth hunting down, the rest of the Horus Heresy series is great too, check it out!

[skilgannan]

Thank you, very much appreciated and really enjoyed the read power klawz, Orks I will have to try the dark angel books.

Many Thanks

Tim

[Power Klawz]

Off the top of my head I can think of a few other great beginner armies to cut your teeth on. Talking about a beginner army I am mainly concerned with a few key components.

1. Model Count

To me, the ideal beginner army is one that can be easily fielded with a few boxes of toy soldiers. Let's not kid ourselves, this can be an expensive hobby. In WH40k terms this generally means an elite force, although that distinction is a bit of a moving target and those of us who have been around the hobby for some time have seen the definition of elite go through several iterations. (anyone else remember when a basic tactical marine was 30 points?) Ideally, you should be able to get your point count up with as few models as possible while still building a fun and competitive army. Space Marines of all sorts fall squarely in this category. Some rather beginner un-friendly armies I could think of are Imperial Guard and, in the sense of model count at least, orks. You will need so many guardsmen or ork boyz to field a worthwhile force that you can quickly become overwhelmed with painting and modeling, leading to the many legions of Black or even Gray Orks you see thronging table tops.

2. Tactical Forgiveness

Some armies out there (space elves and their cousins) are a surgeons scalpel. Precise and adroit at accomplishing their assigned duties under a master surgeon's steady hand, but in the grasp of a neophyte you wind up being the guy who brought an exacto knife to a Pylon fight. This isn't to say that more forgiving armies are bereft of tactical possibility or lack a certain amount of finesse, after all a ninja with a hammer is still a ninja, but having a hammer instead of a scalpel tends to simplify things and make getting a grasp on the mechanics that much easier. Again, Space Marines are a very forgiving army choice as their survivability and reliability are very high. While no one will mistake your bolter spam for Ursarkar E. Creed levels of tactical genius, at the end of the day when you mix it all up and ask "will it blend?" the answer is yes.

When you misjudge the distance between your tactical squad and that gaggle of ravenous beasties, chances are you'll still have a fighting chance at survival when they charge you. When you make a mistake in deployment or movement and find your marines out in the middle of no-man's land with a gang of Lootas taking aim, you'll probably walk away bruised but not beaten. All varieties of space marine are exceptionally sturdy and have access to better-than average mobility.

3. Tactical Simplicity

This is similar to the aforementioned forgiveness, but I felt it bore mentioning independently. This aspect mainly concerns the complexity level of the army.

How does the army do its job? How many moving parts are needed for it to do that job effectively? How coherent do your tactics need to be in terms of unit synergy and support?

A prime example (in my opinion) of a tactically complex army is Tyranids. In order to get all your wonderful little monsters dancing to the right tune you have to take into consideration numerous realities. Where are my synapse creatures? What will these things do without synapse control? How do I protect my synapse creatures while still getting my points out of them? How does my deployment and subsequent maneuvering affect my synapse coverage?

Now take a similar army in the form of Chaos daemons and, while synergistic combinations and tactics of course do exist, you pretty much know what your cavorting daemon hordes are going to do so long as they don't take a bolter round in their eye of terror.

Space Marines, oddly enough, can be very effective while maintaining tactical simplicity. Each squad is a bastion of super-human machismo unto itself. Your HQ units of course can do good things for your bolter toting troopers, but even without the stern gaze of a company commander or chaplain they will still perform at near peak levels. You never find yourself in a position where your troops will perform "less than good."

With those considerations you have the various flavors of Space Marine available. Vanilla, or Ultramarine clones are your basic gunline, power armored, emperor loving zealots. Their basic troopers have a great gun, special and heavy weapon access, great survivability and can take a tooled up sergeant to add a little extra punch in close combat. They do everything moderately well, and are great at holding objectives and tearing down light infantry with massed bolter fire. Vanilla marines have access to a unit type that will accomplish any battlefield role with efficiency, maybe not so much style. Decent and cheap troop transport, lots of deepstrike options, adequate heavy support and some very good harassment and close combat units.

Blood Angels and their successor chapters take the standard Space Marine package and slap a jump pack on it. They are the final word in fast, elite, power armored close combat troops. They have access to some unique character types that buff their troops and can basically deep strike everything forever. (Land Raiders are giant metal boxes that weigh several tons and carry entire squads of space marines along with enough heavy firepower to clear rush hour traffic in LA, they basically throw these things out the back of thunderhawk gunships.)

Dark Angels I have discussed previously. They are basically the monastic weirdos of an entire sub-species of monastic weirdos. Skull faced helmets and sonorous, Gregorian chanting not grimdark enough for you? Put a robe on it.

Space Wolves are crazy viking demigods who ride giant cybernetic wolves into battle. They are organized very differently from the majority of space marine chapters. You still get the basic package of survivability and "pretty good at everything" goodness, but then you get a bunch of in your face Conan The Barbarian In Power Armor stuff too. In a lot of ways Space Wolves are the opposite of Dark Angels. Where the Dark Angels are a bunch of cloistered nondescript battle functionaries who calmly chant psalms while they hack things apart, the Space Wolves are literally howling, bloodthirsty glory junkies who will headbutt a carnifex just to say they did it.

Gray Knights are what space marines would be if they tried harder. Every last one of them is a psycher of some ability. Take everything you love (or hate) about space marines and add some hot sauce to it. They can take terminators as troops for no reason, the most basic unit type they have would be the most elite of the elite in any other army. They have a bunch of crazy special rules that basically make them the best at everything. Sometimes they put on a giant robot suit and have a boxing match with greater daemons for the lulz.

Chaos Space Marines I have also previously discussed. Some people might take issue with them being mentioned along their loyalist cousins, but hey they all share a statline and the majority of their wargear options. Chaos Marines pretty much corner the market on meat-cleaver like brutality and being psychotic.

[Deadlift]

Now I just need to find people in the area who also do 40k.

Hi there Skilgannan, and welcome to the forum :)

Do you have a GAMESWORKSHOP store in your area, if you do this could be your first port of call in looking for other players and getting an intro game in. You may even have a local gaming store (LGS) which is independently run who also run 40k games. You could also try googling for gaming clubs in your area. Or do what I did and get your mates hooked and start your own club. I hope you have as many fun hours as I have had with the hobby, both painting and gaming. These forums are a great place to get questions answered too, don't be afraid to ask anything really, they are a helpful bunch...........most of the time.

[skilgannan]

Hi Deadlift,


There is a store not too far away. A 45 min train journey so will have to nip in there at some point. Thank you for the advice.

Tim

[skilgannan]

Hiya,

Thanks for the run through klawz really enjoyed reading it and it has confirmed my decision on collecting dark angels.

Deadlift I took your advice and popped into a games workshop on my way to work today and had a chat with the bloke there. He got me started on painting a marine and I enjoyed it so much I was 30 mins late for work. I am going back tomorrow when I finish work where I'll finish painting my marine and he is going to give me a intro game.


Thank you all for the brilliant responses and making me feel welcomed in your community

[pnkfld7892]

Sometimes they put on a giant robot suit and have a boxing match with greater daemons for the lulz

That is my vote for quote of the week. XD.

I haven't seen anyone put this out there yet. eBay can be a great place to find some models for less money and some that are very nicely painted, one of my gamer friends bought almost his entire DA army off of eBay. But beware you can run across some forged models or stuff that seems to good to be true. So use your interwebz caution when on there.

And as deadlift said, don't be afraid to ask questions here on the forum, it can help out a lot.

[HERO]

This is how I choose an army:

1. The idea, the theme, the background - whether or not you think it's "cool" or not.
2. The models - I refuse to play with models that I think are "bad" looking.
3. The rules - as much of a min-maxer tuner "spike", the rules actually come in third for me.

[skilgannan]

Thanks all. I have started my DA painting. They're not good quality painted but it's a start. When I've done the whole squad I'll post it on here.