Tournament 1500 points, Space Marines with Imperial Guard allies

[SotonShades]

Space Marines

HQ

• Captain 160

o Power Armour
o Powersword
o Bolt Pistol
o Frag & Krak grenades
o Iron Halo
o Space Marine Bike
o Hellfire Rounds

Troops

• Bike Squad 280

o Sergeant with a Power Sword
o 7 Bikers
o Attack Bike with Multi-melta



• Tactical Squad 195

o Sergeant with Boltgun and Power Fist
o 7 Space Marines with Boltguns and Bolt Pistols
o Space Marine with a Flamer and Bolt Pistol
o Space Marine with a Heavy Bolter and Bolt Pistol



• Tactical Squad 138

o Sergeant with Boltgun and Bolt Pistol
o 7 Space Marines with Boltguns and Bolt Pistols


Heavy Support

• Vindicator 115


• Vindicator 115


• Mortis Pattern Contemptor Dreadnought 215

o Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon
o Carapace-mounted Cyclone Missile Launcher


Imperial Guard Allies
HQ

• Primaris Psyker 70


Troops

• Penal Legion 80


Fast Attack

• Vendetta 130
o Three Twin-linked Lascannon

4-6 Scoring units, more if playing Scouring or Big guns.

2 AA units with high S weapons. Both capable of engaging ground targets when Flyers are destroyed (Tournament also has a limit of 3 Flyers and 5 non-flyer models with Skyfire)

Several units that can deal effective damage to MCs and vehicles.

Biggest drawbacks; limited CC potential and not a huge amount of models.

What do you think? What suggestions would you have for changing the list? Note, the tournament has banned desperate allies and battle brothers are treated as allies of convenience so characters cant join allied units and psychic powers cant be cast on them.

[alshrive]

As i previously mentioned to you, drop the smaller marine unit in favour of a scout squad would be my leanings, maybe snipers and camo cloaks. can hold a home objective and snipe with impunity!

[Falconjab]

I agree with Alshrive. Sniper scouts instead of the small Tactical Squad. And I'd personally go with a normal Dread with 2x TL Autocannons over your Contemptor Dread, but I'm sure you've already got it modeled/painted or something. You could use the points elsewhere, like buying your sniper scouts an Aegis Defense Line with Quad-gun (which would give your Vindicators cover too). Something to think about.

[DrLove42]

And I'd personally go with a normal Dread with 2x TL Autocannons over your Contemptor Dread, but I'm sure you've already got it modeled/painted or something.

Why? Why would you want a AV12 BS4 4 TL S7 shots, when you can have a AV13, 5++ invuln, BS5 12 S6 Rending shots that are interceptor and skyfire.

Theres no point giving vindicators cover. They need to be pushing forward as they're the only real AT weapons. Thats your limt. Not CC. RANGE. Above 24" you have A missile shot and the flier who won't be on for at least a turn. Sure the bikes can close fast, but not fast enough. If its long ways table deployment, you're going to be outshot quickly.

Maybe consider the scout squad as Alshrive said. Give them a missile launcher? It'd DOUBLE your long range AT

[Falconjab]

Totally forgot the Contemptor had interceptor/skyfire. My bad. You're right.

And yea, all your firepower is medium to close range. Might want to throw in a couple elements (like the ML in the scouts unit) to lengthen your threat range.

[Deadlift]

Personally love the contemptor mortis dread, the only thing better is two ;)

I used to use mine with a very shooty, gunline list and those cannons and missile launcher pump out a good amount of shots.

[RGilbert26]

Im assuming this tournament is not for Throne of Skulls?

[SotonShades]

Yeh, not ToS. 10 Sniper scouts comes to exactly 140 points, so swaps out for the 138 point squad nicely. They wouldn't have Camo cloaks though.

I can only get 8, which comes to 138 points again. So which is better; 8 Marines with 3+ saves and WS and BS 4, or 8 scouts, 7 of which only have WS & BS 3, all of whom only have a 4+ sv, but +1 to their cover save with snipers?

[Falconjab]

I can only get 8, which comes to 138 points again. So which is better; 8 Marines with 3+ saves and WS and BS 4, or 8 scouts, 7 of which only have WS & BS 3, all of whom only have a 4+ sv, but +1 to their cover save with snipers?

Totally depends. You should be using them to snipe particular high-value targets, and for that they definitely out-class 8 normal marines. Throw them in 4+ cover save ruins, and they instantly get a 3+ cover save. The BS 3 is definitely a problem, but they can also Infiltrate and Move Through Cover. Set them up in cover spread out from your main force, with good lines of sight, and they can harass and do enough damage to demand some attention. If you can find the points for a Missile Launcher (drop the Power Fist in the first Tactical Squad for a Power Weapon, possibly), do so. That really helps do some additional damage.

[SotonShades]

For the high-value targets I already have 3 T-L lascannon shots, 2 demolisher cannon, a 2 shot missile launcher with 12 S6 AP4 rending shots, a power fist and a bike mounted TL boltgun with a BS5 and poison (2+). I'm sure some games I will need the extra 2 wounds snipers are likely to cause, but I think for the majority of the time, I won't.

Infiltrate is definitely useful, guaranteeing me a chance to see my opponent's deployment before deciding where to put them, but move through cover isn't so much. If they are moving, I won't be making much use of their snipers, so I would definitely be better off with the regular marines. The tournament I am going to also has a large variety of terrain types on different boards, so there is no guarantee that I will actually have a ruin to deploy the scouts in, even with infiltrate. On the wooded tables, only having the 4+ cover almost makes the regular marines a no-brainer.

I think it comes down to this; best case scenario, the scouts are better than the marines. A lot of the time, the flexibility of the tactical squad (ie not having to hug cover to survive, especially on boards where there isn't much, and not having to choose between moving and firing to be effective) will make them the better choice, particularly if my opponent gets in to combat.

[DrLove42]

Problem there is you're relying on an aircraft that has to come on from reserve and 1 model on the board for your long range stuff.

If you're taking scouts they need the missile. If no missile stick to marines. Remember scouts will get a 2+ cover if GtG in decent cover.

[SotonShades]

Taking the missile means I get 1 S8 AP3 shot at the expense of 2 or 3 S8 AP2 assault attacks. Admittedly, the missile can hit form turn 1 onwards, but would also mean that the scouts aren't going to be able to hurt half the stuff the squad shoots at because the missile is shooting a vehicle. I think I'm better off with the marines and making sure I use the first turn to move up the field as quickly as possible so my lack of range isn't an issue.

[DrLove42]

IN which case take the Marines.

But (i dont know points) consider losing a Vindicator for a Predator, Razorback or Las toting Dread

I jsut feel it lacks range. With 1/3 of games being 6" lengths, only having a 2" effective range means you will suffer a bit. Even normal deployments you likely won't have anything bar the Contemptors missiles in range for the first turn, maybe first 2 depending on your opponenet

[SotonShades]

even in hammer and anvil I can deploy 12" from the centre line. If I am pushing my opponent back to stay out of range, I am probably pushing them off objectives as well

[DrLove42]

Point made

I guess we'll wait and see. Cos you know we'll end up against each other :P

[SotonShades]

Yeh that is usually what happens :P