1500 Daemons

[Learn2Eel]

Hey guys, as most of you are well aware I have been tearing through this codex at a rate of knots trying to work out the best combinations and army lists. Well, trying not to go over-the-top, I was wondering how these army lists look to you all? These are written mostly for casual or semi-competitive gaming based on what models I like most. Which list do you like best? Cheers!

Chaos Daemons 1500
HQ
Lord of Change w/ one lesser gift, two greater gifts – 280 (Prescience and Flickering Fire if expecting flyers, otherwise just double Divination)
Herald of Khorne w/ greater locus of fury, greater aetherblade - 95 (had a second bloodreaper but decided to swap him out and take the greater aetherblade on this guy instead rather than no aetherblade)

Troops
Bloodletters (15) w/ bloodreaper w/ aetherblade – 165 (the non-Herald squad, can still kill Termies, also as for all the squad sergeants it is to minimise the risk of one of the warp storm chart results killing my Lord of Change)
Bloodletters (15) – 150
Plaguebearers (10) w/ plagueridden – 95
Plaguebearers (10) w/ plagueridden – 95

Fast Attack
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180

Chaos Daemons 1500
HQ
Skarbrand - 225
Keeper of Secrets - 170 (distraction Carnifex mwahaha lol)

Troops
Bloodletters (15) w/ bloodreaper - 155 (spare five points)
Bloodletters (15) - 150
Plaguebearers (10) - 90
Plaguebearers (10) - 90

Fast Attack
Seekers (10) w/ icon - 130
Seekers (10) w/ icon - 130

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm - 180
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm - 180

If it weren't for the fact I need those icons for my Bloodletters (they deep strike) I wouldn't be remiss to taking Flesh Hounds, who are very good, maybe not as awesome as Seekers but great nonetheless. I also think that for fifteen points more than a similarly sized unit of Daemonettes, the Bloodletters are great value and in my meta they will be more effective and scary.
Obvious problems with both army lists, just still trying to get my head around everything - plus I don't want to take a majorly competitive army anyway. That lone Lord of Change is a cheese build according to many others, I am just unsure whether running him unsupported/in this kind of army is a good idea.

Very interested in getting a fully fledged Daemons army up, and either army list would offer a nice mix of models and (hopefully) be somewhat decent in-game too. Technically it is four Nurgle, three Khorne, two Slaanesh, one Tzeentch units-wise on the first army list but I would rather paint my Soul Grinders with blue (Tzeentch theme) flesh for display purposes anyway haha, so more like three Khorne, three Tzeentch, two Slaanesh, two Nurgle visually :D I really like Skarbrand though, his rules are sweet (he would probably deep strike off of the Seekers too) and I would use the awesome Forge World Khorne Daemon Prince (with a bit of conversion work) for him. I'm thinking four Troops choices in general, two holders, two grabbers with Daemons.

[alshrive]

Nurglings are well worth considering! They can infiltrate forwards, have shrouded so in cover are very hard to shift, are T3 so a bit meh in that respect but i think they are well worth the investment. also a 5+ invulnerable save!

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah I definitely agree, they can be used en masse along with Flesh Hounds, Seekers with icons and deep-striking Bloodletters/Skarbrand/etc that combine for an incredible turn two/three assault :D
Bloody hell just ran the numbers, three Nurgling bases should tie up a ten-strong Tactical Squad with a typical Sergeant for three player turns :eek: For less than 50 tacos too!

[DrLove42]

:O. Nice cheap troops choice....time to get some more

I'm using a block of Juggernauts, with a banner, joined with a Herald on one, with a few gifts, backed up with some Nurgle Beast. Lots of fast moving buggers, and can bring Skarbrand down 100% accuralty in deepstrike from turn 2 reliably

[alshrive]

i was going to take 2 blobs of 7 nurglings (fluffy) but i am tempted to split to 2 of 5 and one of 4......

[Learn2Eel]

Which army list do you guys prefer? And yeah Nurglings look sweet :D

[alshrive]

i am personally leaning towards the first list more than the second! also just check your Nurgle Herald example on your HQ review- I am not 100% sure you have the points for him correct although that was only at a quick glance! also where is the follow button on your blog?! i would happily follow it because you right brilliant and informed articles! much better than mine (alshrive.blogspot.com) which is just pure waffle!

edit
"Herald of Nurgle w/ psychic mastery level two, greater locus of fecundity - 110" unless I am having a, statistically likely, math fail. I work this Herald out at 120 (50 for mastery 2 and 25 for fecundity)

[DrLove42]

I think i like the 2nd one more. 2 scary MC's is better than 1.

I understand why everyone like Fiends, i just refuse to use them, but that the Eldar player in me refusing to use units belonging to She Who Thirsts.

[Learn2Eel]

Hmm thanks guys :) May have to flip a coin on it haha. Also thanks for the compliment alshrive, I corrected the Nurgle Herald by the way :)
DrLove42 I do agree, even if the Keeper has no upgrades it is still scary and will wipe out Space Marine units by itself with ease. Also I can understand the Slaanesh hate haha!

[Learn2Eel]

Updated that second army list;

HQ
Skarbrand - 225
Keeper of Secrets w/ two greater gifts - 210

Troops
Bloodletters (16) w/ bloodreaper w/ aetherblade - 175
Bloodletters (15) w/ bloodreaper w/ aetherblade - 165
Plaguebearers (10) w/ plagueridden - 95

Fast Attack
Seekers (10) w/ heartseeker, icon - 135
Seekers (10) w/ heartseeker, icon - 135

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm - 180
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm - 180

What do you think?

[DrLove42]

Looks good.

As a point why always swap out for an Aetherblade? I like the Axe of Khorne as a lesser gift on Bloodletters

[alshrive]

my only major worry for that army is the lack of anti-air support. 2 soul-grinders will kick out 6 S7 shots a turn, on average only half of these will hit and of those probably on 1-2 HP knocked off. I liked your first list because it also had the Lord of Change dealing with fliers too (although my personal anti-air unit is going to be a Herald and unit of Horrors). 3D6 shots from horror, 2D6 from herald- both granted prescience from Herald....... oh and they are then at +1s thanks to the Heralds Locus, so 5D6 S6 shots should (with a bit of luck) be ok against fliers. I would possibly consider dropping the aetherblade on the plaguebearer unit too, if it is what i think it is. A backfield objective holder then they probably won't see much action and it is a wasted upgrade and the points would be better in another bloodletter....

[Learn2Eel]

Looks good.

As a point why always swap out for an Aetherblade? I like the Axe of Khorne as a lesser gift on Bloodletters

I keep forgetting about the Axe of Khorne lol. I guess it comes down to whether the re-roll to hit or the slim chance for instant death is more worthwhile. I'll try a few games and see what I prefer.


my only major worry for that army is the lack of anti-air support. 2 soul-grinders will kick out 6 S7 shots a turn, on average only half of these will hit and of those probably on 1-2 HP knocked off. I liked your first list because it also had the Lord of Change dealing with fliers too (although my personal anti-air unit is going to be a Herald and unit of Horrors). 3D6 shots from horror, 2D6 from herald- both granted prescience from Herald....... oh and they are then at +1s thanks to the Heralds Locus, so 5D6 S6 shots should (with a bit of luck) be ok against fliers. I would possibly consider dropping the aetherblade on the plaguebearer unit too, if it is what i think it is. A backfield objective holder then they probably won't see much action and it is a wasted upgrade and the points would be better in another bloodletter....

Thankfully no one really catches on with fliers around my LGS, mostly it is just one if at all, I actually tend to field the most flyers/flying monstrous creatures (usually two) but I thought I might try something different. If I am worried about flyers, I also have allied Heldrakes and that Lord of Change :D The aetherblade was mostly just because I couldn't think of anywhere else to put the last ten points, but I will take that idea and put an extra Bloodletter in one of the units - I will after all have that awesome Herald of Khorne from the Forge World Khorne Daemon Prince kit sitting around :)

[alshrive]

sounds like a plan! :)

[Learn2Eel]

Came up with this really quickly, basically I thought; like the updated second army list, I don't need two Plaguebearer units, I usually only get one home objective anyway. So I thought, cool, just switch them out, take a small Cultist unit with a Sorcerer, take a Heldrake :)

HQ
Lord of Change w/ one lesser gift, two greater gifts – 280

Troops
Bloodletters (16) w/ bloodreaper - 165
Bloodletters (15) w/ bloodreaper - 155

Fast Attack
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180

HQ
Sorcerer - 60

Troops
Cultists (10) – 50

Fast Attack
Heldrake w/ baleflamer - 170

Less models to buy that way too.

[alshrive]

now this i like! has a lot of threats! plenty of anti-air! maybe you can drop the meltabombs on the sorcerer and then you have 10 points which should be able to buy you a lesser reward or another bloodletter... I just don't feel that the meltabombs on the sorcerer will help. If the vehicle gets in to your backfield it is already too late really.....

[Learn2Eel]

Oh you are right, I thought I only had 5 points spare. Doh! Will update. Cheers!

[alshrive]

that should be pretty effective!!

[alshrive]

I'm also now looking at your Lord of Change and wondering if the Lesser Reward is worth it. I mean you could get ANOTHER bloodletter instead of that! 2 units of 16 would be very erm.... Khorney....

[Learn2Eel]

The lesser gift is swapped out for the Stave of Change, giving him +2 Strength, Concussive and causes slain characters/monstrous creatures to explode, all for 10 points :D

[alshrive]

ok yes that is well worth it then 2 greater rewards? because you won't be swapping them for a weapon i assume you are just aiming to make him more survivable....

[Learn2Eel]

Pretty much yeah, much like with Divination, the defensive benefits aren't guaranteed but I think they are well worth the cost - with Greater Gifts, it is 66.6% chance per greater gift of getting a defensive buff, whilst with Divination it is more like 66.6% of the powers are really useful :)

[alshrive]

I think you could be on to a winner there! also, time for a shameless plug, follow my daemon blog at alshrive.blogspot.co.uk

[Learn2Eel]

Hey all, I was wondering what y'all thought of this updated army list. I'm not trying to make the most competitive list I can or anything, just one that is decent without employing Allies. In regards to the Daemon Prince, I had 215 points on the dot spare after doing everything else. Cheers for any feedback!

HQ
Lord of Change w/ lesser gift, two greater gifts, mastery level three - 305
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh w/ daemonic flight, one greater gift - 215

Troops
Plaguebearers (10) – 90
Daemonettes (15) – 135
Daemonettes (15) – 135

Fast Attack
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180

Realized the above army was 100 points over....so no Aegis Line :p

[Learn2Eel]

I'm really liking this core;

Troops
Plaguebearers (10) – 90
Daemonettes (15) – 135
Daemonettes (15) – 135

Fast Attack
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130
Seekers (10) w/ icon – 130

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180
Soul Grinder of Nurgle w/ phlegm – 180

It is just what to do with the remaining 520 points that really frustrates me. I don't think I want Heralds, even though they are great, but more-so I need units that scream "shoot me" so that my Seekers/Daemonettes survive to make combat. Ergo, I need Greater Daemons. It is just which ones to take, whether I take pairs, etc. There is the pairing from the previous post with a cheap (and easily killed) Slaanesh anti-flyer Daemon Prince with a kitted out Lord of Change. I've come up with a few more, and I am leaning more towards pairs of flying monstrous creatures to keep up with the Seekers and provide immediate threats;

Bloodthirster w/ greater gift (warlord) - 270
Bloodthirster - 250
Effectively just a hammer that scares the crap out of enemies, forcing them to ignore the Seekers/Daemonettes or be annihilated; win-win for me! Also I would love to build the models.

Lord of Change w/ lesser gift, two greater gifts (warlord) - 280
Lord of Change w/ lesser gift - 240
Both take Divination, spam psychic powers for support/buffs as needed, both hit hard in combat, and the Warlord one should be really hard to kill with two greater gifts.

Keeper of Secrets w/ two greater gifts - 210
Keeper of Secrets w/ two greater gifts - 210
Aegis Defence Line w/ quad gun - 100
Two Keepers, both with two greater gifts, is pretty quick and should keep pace with the Seekers and provide a lot of target saturation. The Aegis Defence Line is there for the Plaguebearers, and to make up for the lesser anti-air by not taking two flying monstrous creatures. I think this might be the most balanced choice, or at least one Keeper of Secrets and maybe one flying monstrous creature (i.e. a Bloodthirster w/ two greater gifts or a kitted out Lord of Change).

Skarbrand (warlord) - 225
Keeper of Secrets w/ one greater gift - 190
Aegis Defence Line w/ quad gun - 100
Similar to the above army list, weaker on target saturation as the lone Keeper is harder to kill and Skarbrand will likely deep-strike, but Skarbrand is so ridiculously powerful that it could balance it out (he also buffs the Daemonettes/Seekers to amazing levels).

Which do you like more? I also came up with one where I use a Slaanesh Soul Grinder (Soul Grinder of Slaanesh w/ baleful torrent - 170) in addition to an Aegis Defence Line with the quad gun and a stock standard Bloodthirster. Cheers!