Pod doubts...

[Pi666]

Reading the pod tactics published today on BOLS I remembered my pod doubts.

First one is, do doors count as mini? I mean, if they're mini, enemies can't get closer than 1 inch, which makes them very useful as "lemming stopper".

Second is, rules say than you can reduce the distance the pod scatters to make it able to deploy it. What happens if you can't reduce the distance?

[Bigred]

Doors don't count, just as open doors on Rhinos and LRs dont count either. Its cosmetic.

If you can't reduce the scatter, its is destroyed with all occupants, just like any other deepstriker. You should always place your initial drop target spot somewhere safe, so this never happens.

[psyscowasp]

Does an open modeled pod block TLOS as a closed one would? It's possible (albeit unlikely) that you could get LOS through the center of an open pod and be able to shoot.

[Pi666]

Thanx Bigred, that's the way i use them, but I wanted to know more opinions.


Does an open modeled pod block TLOS as a closed one would? It's possible (albeit unlikely) that you could get LOS through the center of an open pod and be able to shoot.

TLOS states that if you can see it you can shoot it... I think nasty players glue their doors to block LOS.

[Dingareth]

Or maybe us nasty players just aren't amazing painters and can't do the inside of that thing justification. Have you seen all those little bits, that's intimidating! I'm lazy, so I glued the doors shut on all of mine.

[Pi666]

Or maybe us nasty players just aren't amazing painters and can't do the inside of that thing justification. Have you seen all those little bits, that's intimidating! I'm lazy, so I glued the doors shut on all of mine.

But here goes the question. In a tournament (or a friendly game), you assume the doors aren't there?

[DarkLink]

No, you go by TLOS. That is the only thing you ever go by (unless you want to houserule it).

I always end up accidentally gluing the doors shut on my Land Raiders, and I wouldn't complain if my opponent had glued his drop pod doors shut as well.

[psyscowasp]

I was planning on leaving mine closed for the aformentioned painting issue. That's a lot less detail work to do. And if it gets me an advantage...hey...

[Pi666]

The LR doors don't block LOS to anything, the pod doors do, and fluffwise the doors aren't there, so i think gluing them gives an unfair (unfluff) advantage.

[Lord Azaghul]

If your opponent is that much of jerk about it, you could simply state that since the door are clued the models couldn't have gotten out. So their either stuck inside or back up in the ship, failing to open the doors in the first place.

[Pi666]

If your opponent is that much of jerk about it, you could simply state that since the door are clued the models couldn't have gotten out. So their either stuck inside or back up in the ship, failing to open the doors in the first place.

+1

[fuzzbuket]

unless its BIG not much can see through an empty pod anyway? (unless U made a Dread one:D)

"The LR doors don't block LOS to anything, the pod doors do, and fluffwise the doors aren't there, so i think gluing them gives an unfair (unfluff) advantage."

Is this like the lying marines glued on their stomachs to the base for sneekin, or the deep sea diving ork,(4th ed rulebook) hiding in a puddle so you can see his head, or the Really stealthy stealth suit not their at all:p
baneblade wagon/ attack bike wagon?

just build a pod the way you like it and play it like that:D

Fuzzbuket

[ggg]

If you can't reduce the scatter, its is destroyed with all occupants, just like any other deepstriker. You should always place your initial drop target spot somewhere safe, so this never happens.

- just to be fussy, this is not 4th ed and it is now a deep strike mishap situation (pg.95) ; If the drop pod, as a deep striking unit cannot be deployed because they would land:
1. off the table
2. in impassable terrain
3 or within 1" of an enemy model

You roll on the Deep strike table and they are only destroyed on a roll of a 1-2.


Also it is difficult to envisage a situation where you cannot reduce the scatter distance sufficiently to make it safe other than picking an unsafe location to place the thing (as per the above 3 categories) in the first place. You can reduce the scatter right back to zero - effectively no scatter. Deploying the occupants from the vehicle is obviously a seperate consideration - they are deploying from a vehicle rather than deep striking themselves I think this is the one that people have to watch.

[ggg]

Dealing with your first point: "First one is, do doors count as mini? I mean, if they're mini, enemies can't get closer than 1 inch, which makes them very useful as "lemming stopper"-

Pg 11 states refers to models not being able to move into space 'occupied by another model (which is represented by its base (or hull).'

The drop pod doors are described as 'hatches' under 'transport' special rule pg 69 C;SM and are not therefore, the hull.

The other point raised in pg 66 of the rule book deals with disembarking / embarking and it shows the 2" distance within which this can happen. The picture shows a rhino and measures to the hull and not rhino doors opened outwards. There is no contemplation given in the rulebook for further distance being afforded by doors opening (looking at you land raider users). This therefore indicates that the pod hatches are not counted for this distance or as space - they are not 'hull' but hatches.
The essential rule is page 56, to measure to and from a vehicle's hull.

In most games I play, opponents agree that drop pod doors should be treated as difficult terrain and this is really covered by pg 57 which allows you to agree terrain effects before the game - so that is what I do at the beginning of each game.

[DarkLink]

The LR doors don't block LOS to anything, the pod doors do, and fluffwise the doors aren't there, so i think gluing them gives an unfair (unfluff) advantage.

It doesn't matter what the fluff is, it matters what the rules are. The rules are clear: TLOS.

[Lord Azaghul]

It doesn't matter what the fluff is, it matters what the rules are. The rules are clear: TLOS.

I don't think that's the best counter-argument. Its like if you destroy a turret on a tank but the player glued the turret in place, and then saying that turrent is providing something cover...
The point is the doors should be open ( I think the models is amazing and players should paint those beautiful inside anyway), which would allow quite a lot to see through the model. However I've never had this really be an issue.

[Pi666]

I never had it either, but I was just wondering. For me, is like choosing the grav bases in function of its utility in a game, not in order to make a cooler mini. I mean, OK, glue the doors because you don't want to paint the interior, but don't do it because this way it blocks LOS.

[Lerra]

This is actually a common issue at my local gaming club. People like to put dreadnoughts in drop pods, deploy the dreadnought behind the drop pod so that it gets cover from anti-tank weapons, and then shoot through the open drop pod at something. Also, people like to hide squads behind drop pods out of LOS.

Local TO ruled that you can see through all GW drop pods because they are supposed to have functioning doors, even if they don't. You can't convert a model to give you an in-game advantage, and he ruled that glueing the doors shut to allow complete LOS-blocking would be an advantage to some lists.

[psyscowasp]

What about home-made drop pods? I know a lot of people used to use those, and I was considering doing so myself to save $90 in pods. Obviously the majority of those are simple plasticard with no gaps.

I guess on the other hand, given that you can use the pod for immediate cover for shooty dreads or sternguard, do the benefits (cover save) outweigh the ability to block LOS?

[Dingareth]

If your opponent is that much of jerk about it, you could simply state that since the door are clued the models couldn't have gotten out. So their either stuck inside or back up in the ship, failing to open the doors in the first place.

Well then I hope you've modeled all the doors on your Rhinos, Land Radiers, Chimeras, or Wave Serpents to open, because how else are you going to get out if you can't open the doors? Just like my Drop Pod right...

If the doors are up, then the doors are up and you can't see through it. If the doors are down, then they're down and you may be able to see through it. I sent an email to John Spencer months ago when the codex was released and there was a big ****storm over on Warseer:


Hello,

Answers to your questions are below.



Thanks!



John Spencer

Customer Service Specialist



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From: xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:14 PM
To: Ask Your Question
Subject: Drop Pod rule question



Hi there, my gaming group ran in to a bit of a problem with the release of the Drop Pod model.

The scenario is this: I drop a unit of Stenguard Veterans between two Leman Russes, and using combi-meltas, blow one up. The other one is on the opposite side of the Drop Pod, and is immobilized. In my opponets shooting phase, he claimed that he could shoot throught the Drop Pod (which I have modeled with the doors glued shut, because I'm a lazy painter), claiming that he "should" have line of sight to the Sternguard, if I had modeled the doors open. And so my question has a few parts:

a) Must the owner of a Drop Pod model it so that the doors can open?

No.


b) Must the doors be opened upon landing?

No.


c) Can Line of Sight be drawn through a Drop Pod with the doors glued shut?

No.


d) Can Line of Sight be drawn through a scratch built Drop Pod that has no doors, as this was not an issue before the release of the new, plastic model?

No.



Thank you for your help, this is a fiddily rule, but a rather important one when you consider Dreadnaught rear armor and Drop Pods as well. I'm planning to buy a few more Drop Pods for my army, so this would really help my group out to know- xxxxxxx



Final note: Normal Drop Pods do not have much area to draw line of sight through. I’ve looked, in most cases you can’t see much of a unit to shoot at. Dreadnought Drop Pods are a different beast. They should have an open interior and be easier to see through, but if you model all your drop pods closed you should be fine. This is a weird situation where players should be working together to find an amicable solution.
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xxxxxxx
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show details Jan 31

Thanks so much John,

However, despite your help we've had another question come up about a different guy who hasn't glued his doors up. So I'd like to know whether of not the doors of a Drop Pod that are folded down count as "Any part of the vehicle" since once it lands it is an open topped vehicle. This would give players a substantially larger area to not only deploy their troops out of a Drop Pod, but also deny a large area of the board to their opponent, until the Drop Pod has been destroyed.

Thanks again, especially since this wasn't covered in the FAQ, we're just wondering what direction to go in with these new models and rules- xxxxxxx
- Show quoted text -


On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Ask Your Question <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello,

Answers to your questions are below.



Thanks!



John Spencer

Customer Service Specialist



Please do not delete previous email threads as this will help us serve you better!



Games Workshop

Customer Service

6711 Baymeadow Drive Suite A

Glen Burnie MD 21060



Games Workshop Customer Service is open:

Monday through Friday 9:00 Am to 7:00 PM EST



Contact info:

1-888-248-2335

[email protected]



Or visit us online at:

www.games-workshop.com

From: xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:14 PM
To: Ask Your Question
Subject: Drop Pod rule question



Hi there, my gaming group ran in to a bit of a problem with the release of the Drop Pod model.

The scenario is this: I drop a unit of Stenguard Veterans between two Leman Russes, and using combi-meltas, blow one up. The other one is on the opposite side of the Drop Pod, and is immobilized. In my opponets shooting phase, he claimed that he could shoot throught the Drop Pod (which I have modeled with the doors glued shut, because I'm a lazy painter), claiming that he "should" have line of sight to the Sternguard, if I had modeled the doors open. And so my question has a few parts:

a) Must the owner of a Drop Pod model it so that the doors can open?

No.


b) Must the doors be opened upon landing?

No.


c) Can Line of Sight be drawn through a Drop Pod with the doors glued shut?

No.


d) Can Line of Sight be drawn through a scratch built Drop Pod that has no doors, as this was not an issue before the release of the new, plastic model?

No.



Thank you for your help, this is a fiddily rule, but a rather important one when you consider Dreadnaught rear armor and Drop Pods as well. I'm planning to buy a few more Drop Pods for my army, so this would really help my group out to know- xxxxxxxxxxx



Final note: Normal Drop Pods do not have much area to draw line of sight through. I've looked, in most cases you can't see much of a unit to shoot at. Dreadnought Drop Pods are a different beast. They should have an open interior and be easier to see through, but if you model all your drop pods closed you should be fine. This is a weird situation where players should be working together to find an amicable solution.


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show details Feb 4


Hello,

No. The doors should be ignored, especially for deployment.



Thanks!



John Spencer

Customer Service Specialist



Please do not delete previous email threads as this will help us serve you better!



Games Workshop

Customer Service

6711 Baymeadow Drive Suite A

Glen Burnie MD 21060



Games Workshop Customer Service is open:

Monday through Friday 9:00 Am to 7:00 PM EST



Contact info:

1-888-248-2335

[email protected]



Or visit us online at:

www.games-workshop.com

From: xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:43 PM
To: Ask Your Question
Subject: Re: Drop Pod rule question
- Show quoted text -



Thanks so much John,

However, despite your help we've had another question come up about a different guy who hasn't glued his doors up. So I'd like to know whether of not the doors of a Drop Pod that are folded down count as "Any part of the vehicle" since once it lands it is an open topped vehicle. This would give players a substantially larger area to not only deploy their troops out of a Drop Pod, but also deny a large area of the board to their opponent, until the Drop Pod has been destroyed.

Thanks again, especially since this wasn't covered in the FAQ, we're just wondering what direction to go in with these new models and rules- xxxxxxxxx

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Ask Your Question <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello,

Answers to your questions are below.



Thanks!



John Spencer

Customer Service Specialist



Please do not delete previous email threads as this will help us serve you better!



Games Workshop

Customer Service

6711 Baymeadow Drive Suite A

Glen Burnie MD 21060



Games Workshop Customer Service is open:

Monday through Friday 9:00 Am to 7:00 PM EST



Contact info:

1-888-248-2335

[email protected]



Or visit us online at:

www.games-workshop.com

From: xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:14 PM
To: Ask Your Question
Subject: Drop Pod rule question



Hi there, my gaming group ran in to a bit of a problem with the release of the Drop Pod model.

The scenario is this: I drop a unit of Stenguard Veterans between two Leman Russes, and using combi-meltas, blow one up. The other one is on the opposite side of the Drop Pod, and is immobilized. In my opponets shooting phase, he claimed that he could shoot throught the Drop Pod (which I have modeled with the doors glued shut, because I'm a lazy painter), claiming that he "should" have line of sight to the Sternguard, if I had modeled the doors open. And so my question has a few parts:

a) Must the owner of a Drop Pod model it so that the doors can open?

No.


b) Must the doors be opened upon landing?

No.


c) Can Line of Sight be drawn through a Drop Pod with the doors glued shut?

No.


d) Can Line of Sight be drawn through a scratch built Drop Pod that has no doors, as this was not an issue before the release of the new, plastic model?

No.



Thank you for your help, this is a fiddily rule, but a rather important one when you consider Dreadnaught rear armor and Drop Pods as well. I'm planning to buy a few more Drop Pods for my army, so this would really help my group out to know- xxxxxxx


Final note: Normal Drop Pods do not have much area to draw line of sight through. I've looked, in most cases you can't see much of a unit to shoot at. Dreadnought Drop Pods are a different beast. They should have an open interior and be easier to see through, but if you model all your drop pods closed you should be fine. This is a weird situation where players should be working together to find an amicable solution.


Reply

Forward


Sorry for the awkward formatting, I just copy pasted it over from my email.

[Ranagar]

Correct, and if any drop pod, homemade, forgeworld, and GW is modeled to allow you to see past them, and do not block LOS. The problem is that they ALL grant a 4+ cover save for units behind them. So long as the majority of the unit is behind the DP, they get the save.