1500 Point Pure Deathwing ... Final Version

[Whereswaldo]

Dark Angel’s Deathwing 1500 Point Loadout

Belial (Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Sword of Silence) – 190 {Attached to the 10 man Deathwing Unit}

Deathwing Command Squad (5 Deathwing Terminators, Standard of Fortitude, 1 Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 335 {Deployed using Deathwing Asssault}

10 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 9 Deathwing Terminators, 2 Plasma Cannons) – 475 {Deployed using Deathwing Asssault}

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 250

5 Deathwing Terminators (1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield, 4 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher) – 250

= 1500

I floated a few different versions of this list around, in the end I settled for having a TH & SS in each squad for wound allocation and swapping assault cannons over to plasma cannons. I know this is more of a rock, paper, and scissors list, and its more from a fluff standpoint - and I luckily was able to prime the figures this weekend since weather where I am located has been ridiculous, so now the painting begins..

I played the list variant with no TH & SS and it worked well but I feel having the 3+ invul out front eating up plasma shots is better than chainfists & assault cannons in the 10 man squad.

Feel No Pain on Terminators is extremely satisfying to play with - I highly suggest it.

Anyone have any thoughts, comments, changes that they think would work well with the list?

- Thanks Everyone.

[Whereswaldo]

Really .... No Comments?

[Kaijne]

why the cyclones in the small squads instead of other heavy options?

[Falconjab]

Cause CML's are the best and most versatile option... light tank-busting, infantry destruction, blast template, 2 shots, the range... makes the most sense and you can adjust their purpose based on opponent. Can't do that with Assault Cannons/Plasma Cannons/Heavy Flamers/etc.

[Whereswaldo]

ya ... the CML have the longest range 48" and krak can be used for light tanks and frag for hordes. They are in the small squads so they will each be able to split fire at different targets. The plasma cannons are blobbed in belial so he can deathwing assault them in without scatter, since the range on them is shorter 36" I want to get the most out of them and 2 plasma cannons are great for alpha striking your opponents terminators / elite units - and having belial being the warlord in a 10 man terminator squad makes him alot easier to keep alive and easier to kill the enemy's warlord and complete belial warlord trait "the hunt".

Anyone have any comments on list composition?

[Falconjab]

What do you do when you run up against flyers? I'm intrigued, since it sounds like you've been playing this list for awhile... or maybe you've just been theorycrafting. You don't have any flyer defense (as I'm sure you're aware). It annoys me that in every list that I make now, I have to factor it in.

[Whereswaldo]

Ignore them ... at most split fire the CML's at them but mainly I just play through it. I really never go up against more than 1 flyer per list in my local scene ... so for me personally it is not a large issue.

[iamian]

I had a DW heavy list in a tourney recently. We were doing freat until all 6 of my opponnents flyers came on. 2 helldrakes, 2 vendettas, 2 blight drones.

[Whereswaldo]

Wow ... well with 6 fliers I doubt any list that wasn't tooled for massive AA or air itself would do well.

[FortheEmperor!]

The way I interpret the rules, you have 3 units in reserve (Belial, Cmd Squad, DW Squad) and only 2 deployed on the table. You can't have more than 50% of your units in reserve. You might want to contact your Tournament Organizer and see if they are ruling that the DW Assault does not count as reserves. In my opinion this is clearly an error, but my opinion doesn't count for diddley.

Other than that, it looks like a VERY FUN list to play and to play against. Should be challenging for your opponent to face, but torrent of fire will be your opponent's friend!

[Whereswaldo]

I was under the impression when you attached a HQ to a unit that is turned into a single unit instead of two separate units. Its up in the air still depending on who and were you ask if you can deathwing assault your entire army.

[JMichael]

I played a 1500pt Deathwing list in our recent league. We did rule that DWA allows you to reserve the whole army.
I found my victories were largely based on my opponent's deployment. If they deployed all bunched up, I won! If they spread out or in a bunch of terrain I had a much tougher time.

[Falconjab]

Under the Reserves section, it says that an Independent Character is counted as a single unit regardless of whether or not they have joined another unit. So under the strictest rules, your list probably isn't legal.

From my understanding of the rules, only fliers and drop pods (or their xenos equivalents) are exempt from totaling up your units for Reserves. Since you can start your Deathwing on the table, they aren't exempt. But then again, there are some rules which are poorly written and there are exceptions to every rule. I wonder if this question has an FAQ now.

[Tynskel]

No, the activation of Deathwing Assault occurs before reserves. This means that the unit is already in reserve when you start deploying, and therefore must be in reserves, not counting toward your reserves limit.

[iamian]

According to my local tourney, then you would lose on turn 1 when you have nothing on the table if you are not going first.

[Falconjab]

According to my local tourney, then you would lose on turn 1 when you have nothing on the table if you are not going first.

Well, full drop pod armies are legal in 6th edition so I wonder where your local tourney differs from the rules. If you have nothing on the table at the end of turn one, then yeah you lose. But drop pods come in on your first player turn, so unless everything you pod in on the first turn dies (meaning you'd have nothing on the table at the end of turn one), you don't auto-lose.

[FortheEmperor!]

No, the activation of Deathwing Assault occurs before reserves. This means that the unit is already in reserve when you start deploying, and therefore must be in reserves, not counting toward your reserves limit. I disagree completely. I think the rule is very clear that only units that MUST come start off the table (flyers and drop pods) are not counted in the 50% rule. Deathwing units MAY start in reserve. Nowhere does it say Deathwing Assault circumvents this rule. I reject the assertion about deathwing assault being assigned happens BEFORE reserves. However, you play the way you and your mates like! It is all for fun anyway!!

[JMichael]

I disagree completely. I think the rule is very clear that only units that MUST come start off the table (flyers and drop pods) are not counted in the 50% rule. Deathwing units MAY start in reserve. Nowhere does it say Deathwing Assault circumvents this rule. I reject the assertion about deathwing assault being assigned happens BEFORE reserves. However, you play the way you and your mates like! It is all for fun anyway!!

There's a whole other thread discussing this. Squads and Dreadnoughts also don't have to be put in a droppod or flyer and thus MAY start in reserves. Yet the act of putting them in those transports now makes them 'immune' to the 50% rule. Deathwing Assault MUST start in reserves and this is assigned before the deployment step.
But it really does need an FAQ either way.

Here's the other thread specifically for Deathwing Assault
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?29549-DA-Deathwing-Assault

[Whereswaldo]

well the argument is ... it is not stated that you are putting them into reserve when you deathwing assault. You are declaring that your units are arriving via deathwing assault.

I can think of it going two ways

# 1 since you are declaring the unit will deathwing assault "it must" be placed in reserve to complete the requirement of arriving via deathwing assault.

#2 since you are declaring the unit will deathwing assault "you may" place the unit in reserve to activate the requirement of arriving via deathwing assault.

But it also does not clearly state that they even go into reserve, and you declare Deathwing Assault before you would normally declare reserves.

So score another one for rules that could have been written a little more clearly to clarify things people will most likely disagree on.

@ falcon .... I didnt think about the IC being one more above the cap since I am figuring the Deathwing Assault will play out like drop pods once they FAQ it, no one at my local scene has said anything and I have been playing half on and half in reserve until this mess does get FAQ'd just so no one gets upset after it is. Since one of Belial's perks is that he is able to come in without scattering it seems odd he and his unit would count for two units (hopefully the FAQ will say they "must" start in reserves so it wont really matter if he is or isnt)

Since GW went more lenient on drop pods this edition I think its a toss up and waiting for the FAQ with the "may" "must" reserve situation.

[Falconjab]

I read most of that other thread about Deathwing assault, and it sounds like you declare a Deathwing Assault after you declare which units are going to be held in reserve. So therefore, they're exempt and can always use Deathwing Assault. Very stupid rule, in my opinion. Soon enough every unit with special Reserve rules (Deep Strike, Outflanking, etc) is going to be exempt, really hindering old codexes from reserving units.

I'm also just annoyed cause I don't have that option with Sanguinary Guard, Assault Squads, Terminators, etc. And it REALLY makes a difference when you're playing a Deep-Strike heavy list haha.