How has the recession affected you?

[Mr Mystery]

Morning people.

Simple enough topic to be discussed.

Global recession has ground on now for nearly 5 years, and according to sources, whilst it may not get worse (at least in the UK, according to the Bank of England) it may be a few years yet before we feel things getting better.

Now I'm not looking for your opinions about how you feel about your government is trying to tackle it unless those decisions affect you directly (as in benefits being cut, or tax breaks affecting you) as I think that can be summed up by saying 'they suck'.

Looking for your personal story in this ongoing financial climate.

For me, I'm doing surprisingly well. Since 2008, digits have been extracted from orifices, and I've gone from being homeless to forging a career and having my own flat (rented though it is). And thanks to this change in attitude (not sure what trigered it) I am now in a highly enjoyable job, and earning more than ever before. Still not exactly megabucks, and not about to join the elite, but enough to live quite comfortably. I won't go into masses of detail, but after my bills and food each month, I'm looking at around £700 a month in terms of disposable income. Somehow, and likely a cunning combination of skill, right place right time, contacts in the right place (last two jobs obtained indirectly through two different friends) and sheer blind luck, I am bucking the trend of having my income squeezed.

And like many workers, I am benefitting from a significant increase in my tax free earnings. Currently about £2,500 more tax free than when this started.

Overall, I'm looking at coming out of this recession considerably better off than when I started. Now don't worry, I appreciate my exceptional good fortune in this, and I'm not about to tell those feeling the thick end crappy platitudes like 'if I can do it you can'. Whilst I reckon posters on here could tackler my job (dispute resolution between banks and consumers) getting said job is easier said than done (apparently only 1 in 100 applicants are hired). Though if anyone fancies a crack, we're recruiting over 1000 new peeps in 2013, so shoot me an email.

Now then, over to you. How are you finding this financial climate?

[Wildeybeast]

Now I'm not looking for your opinions about how you feel about your government is trying to tackle it unless those decisions affect you directly (as in benefits being cut, or tax breaks affecting you) as I think that can be summed up by saying 'they suck'.

Sorry, but my personal story is based on how the government is handling things. I can't separate the two as a public sector employee. A pay freeze and increase in pension contributions means a real terms pay cut and with Gove looking to completely shaft our pay structure, that's only likely to get worse. Away from that, the banking crisis has completely shafted my plans for owning my own home. If I'd started work 5 years earlier I'd have got a mortgage without even trying when they were giving them out like sweets. Now I need somewhere between 20-30 grand in savings for a deposit which is deeply frustrating because I could easily afford the costs of owning my own house. Instead I'm stuck with the rents saving up for a deposit which seems increasingly elusive. Still, I'm much better off than many people in this country, never mind the third world problems, so it seems churlish to complain too much.

[Brakkart]

I lost my job (making cream cakes in a Morrison's in-store bakery) about 18 months ago and been living on benefits ever since. I apply for plenty of jobs and almost never hear anything back. Took me a while to get used to the drop in income but I've adapted and while money is always tight, I have a little disposable income each months, roughly £20-£30. I have a bunch of claims for mis-sold PPI being handled at the moment by a company very much like the one you work for Mr. Mystery (might even be your company!), and have had 1 of those pay out thus far which was very nice.

I'm worse off but I didn't really enjoy my job before and I am still hopeful that I will come out of this with a better job. In the meantime while I feel a bit guilty for enjoying the break, after 17 years of retail work this period of unemployment isn't so bad. Getting plenty of time to paint is nice, and lacking funds to buy much in the way of new figures I'm actually making headway into my backlog!

[Mr Mystery]

Is cool dude. Those things directly affect you, and as such are fair game for this thread!

I'm feeling the bite of the property debacle too. On my wage I could also afford a mortgage, but because the banks are reluctant to lend to anyone, I can forget it. Mind you, it's been that way ever since telly told people to invest invest invest in property. Soon as any starter home type things are built round here, people of my parents generation (baby boomers) snap them up. This artificially inflated the cost of private ownership and rental. It's a vicious circles caused by simple greed.

In my job I get to see various mortgage documents, and when you see the cost of housing 20 years ago, it makes me genuinely angry. I'm also sick to death of homeowners fretting about their precious property value. I'm never going to own property until my parents are no longer with us. It's just not feasible. By the time I've saved a deposit, it's won't be enough! I know it's a free market economy, and thus fairness doesn't mean much, but I do consider it unjust. The baby boomers got it all, and they now refuse to share!

[Mr Mystery]

I lost my job (making cream cakes in a Morrison's in-store bakery) about 18 months ago and been living on benefits ever since. I apply for plenty of jobs and almost never hear anything back. Took me a while to get used to the drop in income but I've adapted and while money is always tight, I have a little disposable income each months, roughly £20-£30. I have a bunch of claims for mis-sold PPI being handled at the moment by a company very much like the one you work for Mr. Mystery (might even be your company!), and have had 1 of those pay out thus far which was very nice.

I'm worse off but I didn't really enjoy my job before and I am still hopeful that I will come out of this with a better job. In the meantime while I feel a bit guilty for enjoying the break, after 17 years of retail work this period of unemployment isn't so bad. Getting plenty of time to paint is nice, and lacking funds to buy much in the way of new figures I'm actually making headway into my backlog!

At the risk of bragging, it's not a claims management company I work for. It's above them! People and CMC's come to us for adjudication. And I hate to say it, but there is no need to use a CMC. It can all be done yourself.

[lobster-overlord]

I lost my job in 2002 with the dot com bust, and the current recession didn't affect me other than it brought everyone else into the same position as me. I went from $50K (US) down to $7K that next year. I tried my hand at my own business, but due to having sketchy partners, lost everything I'd saved and ended up in massive debt. I was beginning to turn it around in 07, when I got a job as a dept manager with Target, but that stalled due to the recession, and they started dropping in fresh-from college interns into Exec Mgmnt positions for less money, leaving us experienced (read: higher pay) managers without any footing to advance. So I left target for a great opportunity working for my FLGS (95% online sales)< but every time Greece was mentioned in the news, our sales dropped by 50% (10's of thousands of dollars). Ultimately, I had to leave that job and move on as well. Thankfully, as a food service manager by training (beyond the computers and college), I was able to find work and troll along.

My dad (pre-WWII by one month, non-baby boomer for you Mr. Mystery) Stepped in and gave us the ability to get out of debt and buy a house this year, and that helped us cut our monthly costs by several hundred in rent. However, I'm still not making more than 30K a year still, and havn't been able to make a sizable dent in rebuilding my retirement funds since I had to clear those out to keep from going bankrupt after the failed business (non-recession related, just bad choice in friends).

I've had to sell my massive GIJoe collection and tons of my Warhammer stuff (mostly acquired during my time as an employee of AOL in the late 90s).

We've been on food stamps a couple of times over the past 3 years for a few months at a time and that has helped, but with the house now, our expenses are less (and even though we still qualify) we've not needed to reapply.

Overall, we're surviving (family of 5) on less than 30K, with our own home, but we wouldn't be if I didn't have the coolest dad in the world that pushed off buying a summer home in Cape Cod, Mass to help out.

[Godless Zealot]

I left Univeristy in 2006 and after a brief period of part time work, relaxation and travelling I set out to find work proper. Spent two years stacking shelves and serving on tills for my career. Applied for hundreds of jobs but never got past the interview stage and they were rare. The recession hit and financial doom and gloom was everywhere fortunately I remained employed but hated the job. After a bit of depression and moping around I finally got motivated and landed myself a decent job in my chosen field. Things were looking up but then as the recent budget cuts hit a lot of work mainly for councils and local authorities dried up. That wouldn't of been a problem in itself as we could of easily branched out but a fraudulent Director screwed everything up and almost two weeks ago I was let go. Now the company is going through dissolution and for the first time in my adult life I am unemployed....

The battle continues....:)

[Psychosplodge]

It cost me a more interesting job with more prospects.
It's certainly put me in a similar position to Wildey with the housing.
and my boss uses it to justify not paying us properly in my current Job, even though we're doing better than ever, probably as a result of people repairing rather than replacing...

[Wolfshade]

The recession has had not effect on me.
I left uni, got married brought a house.
Council tax freezes have been a boon, as have the continued increasing of the personal tax allowance.
As I receive no benefits I have not seen a reduction.

[Phototoxin]

I quit my job to start a phd when the recession started and my job despite making more profit than ever decided not to increase wages or pay a decent bonus.
Then I got sick and had to stop. Here I am, recovering, on ESA/disability. Hopefully when I'm well there will be a job but I get the feeling firms use it as an excuse to pay less than they should.

[Chronowraith]

I wrote and rewrote my response here but each time it just sounded like bragging.

Third time is a charm but I've actually been pretty blessed the whole time. I left my previous job with a utility company in 2009 and have worked for the public sector (federal government) ever since. Big events? Refinanced house in late 2011 and more than halved the interest rate AND chopped 11 years off the loan without raising the mortgage more than $10. Still saving for a new car and expecting a first child in May/June of this year.

Now, all that being said, if congress and the administration don't solve the sequestration issue I will start to be affected. Something in the neighborhood of 20% reduction in pay from April to October 1st (mandatory furlough one day a week). Government FAIL.

[Necron2.0]

I am doing alright. I have numerous friends however who are either living off savings due to unemployment, or who have lost their homes and moved back in with relatives, or who have downsized their living situation. I have several friends who, due to their declining funds and coupled with GW's perfidious price increases, have stopped playing GW games altogether. They would play if they could, but all things considered there are simply better options out there right now.

[Wildeybeast]

At the risk of bragging, it's not a claims management company I work for. It's above them! People and CMC's come to us for adjudication. And I hate to say it, but there is no need to use a CMC. It can all be done yourself.

True dat! My mum dug out some old statements and loan agreements, spent about a day's worth of time making phone calls and writing letters. Initially the bank lied and claimed she'd never had PPI, but when she told them she had the loan agreement with it written on they sorted their act out. She is now getting 4 grand back and that is from all the other stuff they found they'd forced my parents to take PPI on (despite them never having needed it) while investigating the one she claimed for (they're still working out how much they owe her for that). Took her some effort and not little frustration and perseverance, but given the going rate for claims companies is about 25%, she's saved herself at least a grand already.

[Mr Mystery]

25%? Don't forget the VAT....

Sadly I can't say more publicly due to my job. BoLS may be semi-anonymous, but not taking that risk!!

So what sort of sectors do people work in? Like Kirsten, I more or less work in the public sector, so am lucky enough to be relatively safe from market forces. And being akin to a self funded charity, I am equally safe from government cuts to boot. Though sadly that means the most likely thing to scupper me here is well, me. Which is a risk we all run in the world of employment.

[Wolfshade]

Sadly I can't say more publicly owing to my job. BoLS may be semi-anonymous, but not taking that risk!!
Fixed it! :D

I'm also quasi public sector. My company bid for its contract 50 million less than its competitors so we are looking at 1/3rd redundancies yayay!

[Mr Mystery]

Sadly in this age, better a third than everyone :(

As for the cuts? Yes that lawn is long overdue a good mowing, but I still find the methods unnecessarily brutal!

[Wildeybeast]

Sadly in this age, better a third than everyone :(

As for the cuts? Yes that lawn is long overdue a good mowing, but I still find the methods unnecessarily brutal!

My lawn didn't need cutting. The lying barstewards claimed our pensions were unaffordable, despite not having done the report into our pension scheme's affordability (which was due a couple of years ago) that the previous government signed up to doing when we agreed to pension reform. Our independent one the unions had done said it was perfectly fine so the government has now changed tack to 'everyone else has sh1t pensions so teachers should have sh1t pensions too!' :confused: I'd laugh at the sheer stupidity of that statement were it not for the fact it means a doubling of my pension contributions for a worse payment at the end of it.

They also decided to cut pretty much all the funding for school sports and abolish the minimum size for school playing fields (meaning they can all be flogged off for housing) before decrying the obesity crisis and saying they needed to get more kids playing sport in school to meet the Olympic legacy.

[Psychosplodge]

I'm not touching the pensions one.

School fields have been sold off for at least fifteen years, I have a relative that used to do it as part of his job, and he was definitely selling them while I was still at school.

[Wildeybeast]

Oh, it's nothing new. It can be a good thing (the secondary school up the road from me sold off half their's and got a brand new state of the art sports centre in return.) The issue is there was a minimum size a playing field could be which meant you couldn't sell off all of it. Now you can which means many inner city schools are likely to have no playing fields at all which limits the amount of sport kids can do.

[Wolfshade]

I'll touch the pension one. (Picks some stones, throws at hornet nest runs away).

The amount of funds that you invest into a pension fund should be directly related to that which you take out.
The civil service was famous for promoting members in their twilight years to higher salaries so that when the final salary scheme occured they were better off, and since those doing the promotions were themselves looking for it it made sense, after all you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. [Indeed it is like MPs voting on MPs salary rises]. Now I understand that the pension schemes are not final salary so that is not the issue.

If you live a long time then you can expect to take out more from the pension scheme than was invested (your contributions, leas matching contributions, interest) and that is where it is not fair.

In March 2010 there were 588,441 pensions in payment which paid £6.15 billion, contributions from active members and the pensions in payment led to a shortfall of £2.53 million, which increased from £2.14 billion the previous year.
The key issue is that the retirement rate is higher than the mortality rate, which means that you have an increasing demand on the pensions which is not being made up. Indeed between 2006-2011 nearly 3 new pensions started for every one that ceased. This would not be a problem in itself if but the numbers of teachers has not increased by this rate so the gap between contributions and payments must increase.

This system of unfunded public sector pensions allow people to accrue commitments to receive pensions from the future taxpayers regardless of the ability of those future taxpayers to pay for it. With very low market returns investments of these pension pots are not giving the expected return, and this is an issue that is effecting all people saving for their future, the difference being that in the public sector that short fall will be made up by those who pay tax, rather than just hitting the saver with lower pensions.

For the private sector, if I use all of my pension fund, that is it, the tax payer is not mandated to pay for the shortfall and it is unfair to expect that.

But I agree about the school fields, though I was lucky we had a large sports ground that could take either a cricket pitch, or two rugby pitches and places to spare.

[Wildeybeast]

But that's just the issue, there was no shortfall in the teacher pension scheme (at least not that anyone knows because the government didn't do the bloody report. They are working on figures from 2008. There was a report due in 2012 but they refused to do this until after they had pressed ahead with pension reforms.) In fact, NUT estimates that over the life of the TPS we have paid in over £40 billion more than we have withdrawn. We renegotiated pensions under Labour to ensure they were affordable and all the indications were that the scheme was meeting predictions (again, the govt. didn't know this because they didn't do the report). If they had been unsustainable, then fair enough I wouldn't expect that taxpayer to make up the shortfall, but there was no evidence to say this. We got lumped in with all the other public sector pension schemes so the government can save money by getting us to pay more and giving us less.

[Wolfshade]

Well those figures I quoted were from Teachers' Pension Scheme (England and Wales): Annual Accounts 2010-11 (https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/standard/publicationDetail/Page1/HC%2044), Department of Education, 2011, so the TPS certain thinks that there is a shortfall..

Don't forget teachers contributions are 6.4% with the employermakes a 14.1% contribution to the fund.

Consider this in relation to stakeholder pensions which offer match funding up to a maximum of around 6%.

If you invested £100, the LEA would invest £220 giving a total of £320.
Private sector invest £100, the company invests £100 giving a total of £200.

So the company makes its contributions based on its profits.
The LEA doesn't have profit, indeed this 14.1% is purely from tax payer revenue anyway.

[Mr Mystery]

Pensions are an odd one.

Again, I count myself lucky that my employer has a very, very generous programme (10% from them, plus matching my contribution up to 3%. This means I pay in 3%, and get 16% overall. Their initial contribution increases with age as well, up to 12% in 2.5 years for me) And of course, although it won't be matched, the more I earn, the more disposable income I will generate. This means I can save even more.

Ideally, I'd like to get into the comfortable position of matching their contribution myself, or squirreling away 30% per annum of my wage, for a compartively paltry 15% contribution from myself. If I can carry that off until retirement at 65, that's a pretty pension pot of nearly £281,280 without any interest accrued. Though absolutely no idea what that would equate to in terms of actual pension payments, but I'm willing to bet it'll be suitably healthy.

But the sad truth is that once again I am simply being a jammy sod. This sort of pension plan is pretty rare in the private sector, and increasingly so in the public sector. Too many short term financial fixes have risked the long term financial stability of several generations. I mean right now, I'm 32, turning 33. I've managed to punch my way into an awesome job with frankly staggering benefits. I am genuinely one of the lucky few.

I dunno what my brother is going to do. 35 this year, and going back into education. He's got a chance, but it's ever decreasing.

The more I look at it, the more I think this recession and the dodgy handling it has received has scuppered several generations :(

[Wildeybeast]

Sorry, I'm getting muddled up and not being clear and I thank you for correcting me. There is a shortfall, yes. The changes introduced when we reformed the scheme in 2007 (I think it then) were designed to reduce this and if I've understood the annual summary properly it indicates they have gone down from the previous year. The report I'm referring to is a 4 year one on the overall sustainability of the TPS, which is supposed to show whether the scheme is still reducing the shortfall and whether further reforms are needed. The government has decided further reforms are needed without that report and based on data from 2008 (when the changes would not have had any significant impact).

I'm think going to leave this debate here, because it makes me sound ungrateful (my pension is still much better than that of those on comparable salaries in the private sector) and it just goes round in circles.

[Mr Mystery]

Cheers for the contribution though dude.

It's nice to understand why people are upset over what seems like small beans to many. Even if people still don't agree, perspectives should always be shared.

[Wolfshade]

And it is true that the TPS should have been re-evaluated by the Actuaries every 4 years but this hasn't happened.

One of the probelms in the whole public vs. private debate is that overhwlmingly public sector works had pensions whereas private sector didn't. New legislation should help strive this one off and movable stake holder pensions makes this so much easier, rather than having lots of little dormant pots floating about.

I fully understand and appreciate why would would be angry at having to increase your contribution and get less in return, and I would be the same in that situation. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite.

What I do get the impression of, is by legislating that everyone who works has a pension, and the removal of the state secondary pension, it does seem to me, at least, that this is paving way to stopping the whole state pension.

The largest area of spend by the governement is work and pensions accounting for £167 bn of which £74.2 bn is spent on pensions, which is more than is spent on anything else, aside from the NHS (96bn).

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah, it's a first world problem, but with a pay freeze it amounts to a real terms wage cut so we get annoyed. Set this alongside all the other idiotic changes they are making to education and hopefully people can see why we get irate.

Edit: I'd agree with you Wolfie, private sector ones needed improving and the Hutton report did criticise the 'race to the bottom' approach the government had taken.

[Wolfshade]

Yeah, it's a first world problem, but with a pay freeze it amounts to a real terms wage cut so we get annoyed. Set this alongside all the other idiotic changes they are making to education and hopefully people can see why we get irate.

Totally, my sister and her wife are teachers and quite a few of our mutual friends and it seems that people agree that something needs to be done but no one has a clue of what and arguably more importantly how.

The pay freezes are felt by everyone, well unless you are on benefits then you get a 1% increase instead of 2% and still complain that your free money isn't enough...

[Wildeybeast]

Well if the unions have their way that something will be striking which I'm sure will win us plenty of public support.

[Wolfshade]

Well if the unions have their way that something will be striking which I'm sure will win us plenty of public support.

I think that that is a major shift in public perception. Looking at the strikes in the 70s and 80s and there was general public support, looking at them now they seem to gather resentment :/. Perhaps if there was more union members that would help?

I know from my experiance (I work along side public sector workers) that when they strike you have a number of people who work from home, or don't bother comming in. Last strike the picket line consisted of 3 people which dissapated by 10 a.m.

[Wildeybeast]

I should have put a smiley to denote sarcasm. Last time we went out, the opinion polls showed just under half the country broadly supported. The problem we have is to get Gove to take any bloody notice you have to have the entire country screaming in his face and telling him what a moron he is before he'll take any notice (as happened with the recent GCSE reform farce). Since we don't have that (no one but teachers cares about his proposed pay reforms) striking is the only option left but that is a sure-fire way to lose what ever support we do have.

[Mr Mystery]

One of the worst developments post Thatcher is the general antipathy toward unions.

Granted I wasn't alive then, and the unions do appear to have gone too far during the 70's. but god forbid those doing the work should organise and stand up for themselves!

[Denzark]

I'll have a bite on the recession and pensions. I am in the military. My particular trade (which shall be nameless) saw a 15% reduction in manpower. There has been no reductions in operational roles for us though, and indeed numbers in Afghanistan went up after Camp Bastion was attacked. Now my colleagues have been doing various bits as part of the UK contribution to Mali. So, at a time of a pay freeze, more of us are going away more often, putting pressure on those at home - both in the work place, where you need to pick up your colleagues work, and at home, where the wife/family are getting threaders, that your time at home between tours, is chipped away.

Now look at pensions. Our pension last year was increasing at whatever was the lowest of the 2 out of RPI and CPI. At the time, benefits were going up at the higher of the 2 - this has since been chnaged to the lower - which is fair. Because if we are all in it together, then everybody should suffer.

Now, am I complaining about the increasing regularity of deploying on operations? No, its what I signed up to do. It might seem odd (by which I mean absolutely bat-sh*t mad) to chop numbers during enduring operations and an increase to Africa, but hey, ces't la vie.

But - and this is the big but. I signed a dotted line. I agreed to go to nasty sh*tholes, put my life on the line for the government's aims, which means often, to support foreign nationals. I agreed to do all this, I am liable for recall 24/7/365. But, when I made my informed decision to join, I was told I would be renumerated in a certain fashion, with a certain pension.

Now I care not if it is affordable. That is to some extent an irrelevance to me. I can't see how a legally binding contract, can be changed, purely at will, by one party. In almost every other legal strata, failing to carry out the terms of a legal agreement, leaves you open to sueing. If HMG breaks one of the requirements of say, its EU treaties, it is punished. So why can my pension be welched upon? I sat down and gambled with both my private, family and actual life; I ante'd up with these things, and the government ante'd up with my pay and pension. And now, they can reduce both - with ease, because we have no Union rep. Those responsible for our welfare, the Chain of Command, are prevented from taking positions opposite to government policy.

We believe in the military in not offering problems, we offer solutions. So, I would say what is fair, is to say everyone on a current pension will get it. From now on, everyone else joining from scratch gets a reduced pension, so they can make the (supposedly) informed choice I made.

Next, the MoD pension pot is continuously being drawn on less, as veterans die. Sad, but true. Less WWII vets every year. So HMG saves.

Next, international aid. Aiming for 0.7% of GDP is barking, if you cannot meet your obligation to all parties in your own country. I personally hate this policy - but what really digs is it being ring-fenced. I think this is immoral to do something, ie preserve the money you give to other tribes, meaning you have less to give to your own tribe.

Next, government wages. Why are somelocal councillors etc getting more money than the PM? Why do ministers get something like £17k severance when a re-shuffle (or a Chris Huhne resignation) sends them off?

I could find more examples of where HMG could find savings so as to pa its own what was promised (EU = £50m-ish PER DAY) but I have ranted long enough.

[Wolfshade]

I did see the sarcasm Wildey' however I did think it was worth noting the change in attitude towards general strikes.

Denzark: I can completely see why you would be upset after all, like Wildeybeast you signed up and signed on with some expected remuneration and any changes that occur to that are frustrating to say the least, above and beyond "market forces".

I think it would also be worth noting that we have the 4th largest defence budget in the world, (I know more ££ =! more men) but perhaps this should be investigated? Surely with the UN Britain should not be playing such a leading role in world peace keeping. I understand that nations have to send military to support UN/NATO objectives (Indeed it was this lack of standing army that put pay to the League of Nations).

I completely agree with you on the whole international aid front. I was very frustrated that we were providing aid to India which has a much faster growing economy, more millions per head of population and are developing their own space program! I think you need to look to your own before you look to your neighbours.

Though some do well out of this situation :http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281172/Jobless-mother-11-built-bed-home-council-claims-benefits-horse-daughter-says-mum-ashamed-about.html

Jobless mother of 11 who is being built a six-bed home by the council claims enough in benefits to own a horse as daughter says 'mum has nothing to be ashamed about'

Heather Frost, 36, lives in two houses which have been knocked together
Has seven children in one house, while the rest live with her in the other
Now Tewkesbury council has agreed to build her five-bed eco-home
It emerges she can afford to spend £200 a month on her daughter's horse
'How could she possibly work with 11 children?', daughter writes online

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Back again! So the other day, figures were released which look marginally more positive. People claiming job seekers is down, worker numbers are up.

Yet the same quandry of 'well why the hell isn't that reflected anywhere else?' keeps cropping up.

Thoughts?

[Psychosplodge]

How do?

Back again! So the other day, figures were released which look marginally more positive. People claiming job seekers is down, worker numbers are up.

Yet the same quandry of 'well why the hell isn't that reflected anywhere else?' keeps cropping up.

Thoughts?

Are worker numbers up or simply claimants down?

[Wolfshade]

I think we are all awaiting a huge growth bubble, rather than a slow steady climb.

I am concerned that despite spending cuts the deficit has not decreased.

I am also concerend by the lack of leadership from the opposition. He seems quite capable of saying that we are cutting this and that and the other but seems to give no indication of how he would resolve the issue.

[Psychosplodge]

Well Considering I don't think any of the three largest parties leaders have ever done real work what do you expect from them?
And have you seen milliband? he looks like he's permanently sneering at you, its scarier than browns on/off smile...