High Elves...

[eldargal]

via Hastings 2-15-13
In May with a late April advance order, as per Hastings on Warseer:


...

(May also (preorder end of apr))

via Ulthuan.net 3-29-13

GENERAL SPECIAL RULES:
-NO ASF or Valor as we know it today.
-Elven Dexterity: units with this rule can use parry save when wielding any weapon, even if mounted (some units may use it against shooting or even if mounted).
-Special rule for rolling an additional dice on chase an remove the lowest result (or four dice removing two lowest dices to swift stride).
-IaC: more than ******** around, there are chances that the general may somehow help, dependin on region/power chosen it benefits some units.

SPECIAL RULES ON WEAPONRY:
-Elven Weapons: no penalties on two-handed or moving&shooting (there may exist extra bonus on elite units). (Translator says: in the beginning I thought of SW, but maybe maidens are also here).
-Ithilmar armor: no penalties when moving, +1AS on heavy armor (only on elite units).
-Dragon Armor: 3+ armor save against flaming attacks.
-Lion Pelt: Can also be used in CC.

MAGIC SPECIAL RULES:
-Elven Mages: +1 to dispel and can repeat channelings.
-High Magic: More powerful spells and representing the 8 lores of magic. It is said that there is one that gives life back to a dead character and other one specific against Chaos and "Bad" armies. They will be the most powerful sorcerers until Lizards get renewed after summer. Some rules will be shared with them.

SPECIFIC RULES ON UNITS:
-Martial Prowess: Elves fight and shoot with a extra rank (not specified, but this could be armywide).
-Spears and LSG: heavy armor and shield option.
-Archers: Light Armor.
-SHs: Heavy armor. Cheaper.
-Ellyrian Reavers: Same.
-T-Chariot: Same, cheaper.
-SMs: Parry save against shooting, Swords of Hoeth, Paths fighting.
-White Lions: Lumber Axes, Stubborn, Forest Stride.
-Phoenix Guard: Know their destiny (unbreakable), Magic Resistance, Ward Save. (maybe something about flaming attacks).
-SWs: Stalkers (?), Night Warriors (?).
-DPs: Caledor Proudness, all the rest remains the same.
-Lion Chariot: Same, cheaper.
-Flying Chariot: RBT on top of it, crew with elven weapons.
-RBT: cheaper, better.
-Dragons: Will of the Dragon (mix of 5ed. rule plus communion with rider that makes them share some rules). Super Dragon (Caledor Dragon?) may be wizard too.
-Phoenix: May be consecrated to Asuryan or another God (Phoenix alone or in a shrine?)
-Fire Dragons (MC): same as dragon princes, beast mounted is better than eagle but worse than a hypogryphe. Fly, 1+AS. Rare.
-Maiden Guard: Avelorn Mirror (?), Deadly in CC (?) (Translator says: I think no one knows what they'd do. I thought they would not exist, thought this was a wishlist... Maybe it's just a unit upgrade after all...).
-Warrior-mage (different from dragon-mage): Hoeth disciplines, fighting magic (guy was convinced one of them would be Belannaer).


REMEMBER: All this are rumors. Cheers
So, Maiden guard are back if these rumours are accurate. Not the only source reporting a female unit either:

oth of these will be plastic kits:
- A unit of lasses that look to be using bows formed from water. They're something to do with Avalon?
- A unit wielding bows and swords, with face-covering helms. I understand these to be called Shadow Soldiers or something to that effect.

via Faeit 3-29-13
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-evDVASZwDrM/UVcBXhTuXmI/AAAAAAAAVho/d2WMa013waI/s1600/image+%25285%2529.jpeg

via Warseer 3-30-13
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/483294_580199795337548_1916983868_n.jpg
Both Phoenixes and a bit of the flying chariot in the foreground. Courtesy of GW Denver (via the infadel at Warseer), hope no one loses their job.

via Bugman's Forum 3-31-13


Update from Best_Pone

I can confirm the flying chariot. It looks like a tiny boat with wings, and is pulled by a single giant eagle. It looks kind of silly in my opinion, but not much that can be done about that.

As for the phoenix, it can be made up either as a fire phoenix or an ice phoenix. This one at least look pretty cool (or hot, depending on the option you choose I guess )


via Ozguard battlehammer

I won't say how I know but I can say that the next army book will be High Elves.

They have a number of new things.

Flying Phoenix's (Frost and Fire) that can drop flame templates on units they fly over. Gets abilities based on what is roled on winds of magic
Great Eagle towing chariots (Which can have bolt throwers on them)
New Highmage of Hoeth (Swordsmaster/mage) Gets every signature from all 8 lores.
Everqueen
Silver Helms as Core
Martial Prowess across the board
Archer units with magical bows
Swordsmasters get a parry save vs shooting
New Shadow Warrior Models
The White Dwarf battle report is vs Ogres.


via Warseer 4-14-2013

-HE are going to get a new war machine that mixes RBT and dragon breath/flamethrower. Nobody told Maeltröm if its something independent or part of one of the flying chariots. He thinks that maybe a new war machine.
-Some people now say there will be no MC, so maybe no dragons. Others, instead, keep saying there will be and they give very explicit details. Maelström is confident they can be one of the releases, since if they exist not there will be few new boxes and having two different infantry boxes is both unlikely and unnecessary. He will keep digging to see what he finds.
-Next magic items disappear as you know them nowadays: Star Lance, Dragon Horn, Armor of Caledor (=Imrik coming back?). There is a new magic item: Book of the Phoenix.
-Dragons have awaken. More and more powerful dragons. Imrik is coming back.
-Phoenix King is going to battle.

NEW MODELS (from MORE likely to LESS likely):
1. BOX/KIT: Flying Chariot Sky Talons. Special character on it (Finubar/Eltharion) an option for RBT/flamethrower-dragon breath war machine.
2. BOX/KIT: Phoenix/Phoenix Riders. Options for Special Character (Caradryan?), two/three types of Phoenix (Ice/Fire/Lone one).
3. BOX/KIT: Infantry: 10 Shadow Warriors/Maiden Guard (Some say they will be in two boxes and not in a multikit).
4. BOX/KIT: Monstruos Cavalry "Fire Riders" (dragons)
5. BOX/KIT: Huge Dragon/Monster. Option for Imrik.
6. BOX/KIT: New War Machine (as the one in the flying chariot option B)
7. BOX/KIT: Great Eagles.
8. BOX/KIT: Two elven gods shrines.

BLISTERS (some to be seen on may, others in the future, others never). From MORE likely to LESS likely:
1. BLISTER Warrior Mage (some say with option to build Belannaer)
2. BLISTER Alarielle
3. BLISTER Teclis
4. BLISTER Random hero

PS: Maelström's left apart some things that we are not likely to see in years such us SHs, Spears, SMs, New Griffon and the like. He insists on saying that new release will be: 4-5 boxes and 3-4 blisters, plus book and cards. No surprises (we already know almos everything about that very point). Anyway, it will be WHFB 30th anniversary, and elves are an army that needs something flashy that we haven't seen yet (as happened with Empire), and there may be a surprise.

Swordmasters retain ASF (or similar) and move to Rare
New Helf unit in core with GW

Heard about a unit with Bows and Cloaks

via Warseer's Earlybird (4-18-2013):


Greetings fans of pointy eared princelings

We will have the followings :

Core :
Spearmen
Archers
Lothern Sea Guard
Silver Helms
Tiranoc Chariot
Shadow Warriors

Special :
Ellyrian Reavers
Chrace Chariot
White Lions
Dragon Princes (Horse)
Great Eagles
Swordmasters
Bolt Thrower

Rare :
Dragon Princes (monstruous)
Phoenix Guard
Phoenix
Saphery Chariot

Cheers

via Warseer's BramGaunt (4-25-2013):

I don't know if this has been said, so...

Sea Helm provides his chariot with a 4+ invul save. If he joined a unit, it can make a free regroup after it has been charged (!)
Annointed is a pricy Lord with a 4+ invuln save

Frostheart Phoenix gives enemy units in b2b -1 strength and always strikes last
Flameheart deals d6 s4 hits to a unit he flies over , and d3 hits per every aditional rank the unit has. It can ressirect with full life.

Skycutter has s5, t4 and 4 wounds
Can have a s5 bolt thrower
Less then 100 points

Shadowwariors drop in points
Swordmasters, white lions, archers drop in points. Wl and sm more then archers. Lion chariot and bolt thrower drop significantly in points.

Loremaster is quiet expensive

Allarielle is a S4 mage, grants her unit a 5+ invul against non magical attacks, can heal herself or anither character, may grant +1 to hit for 1 turn (cc and ranged), all allied witards which use lore of life or lore of light get +4 on casting


CONFIRMED RULES via Hero (http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2013/04/huge-high-elves-info-dump.html#more) (4-27-2013):

Everyone has ASF, Martial Prowess and Valour of Ages
Mages get +1 to cast High Magic now instead of +1 dispel, called Lileath's Blessing
Dragon stats are..
Sun Dragon - 5s, WS5, T5 S5, W5
Moon Dragon - 6s, 5 attacks Ld.8
Star Dragon, WS7, S7, T7, 7 wounds, I2, 6A, Ld.9
Everyone has 3+ AS, Terror

Flamespyre Phoenix = 225
WS5 S5 T5 W5 I4 A3 Ld.8
Monster
Special Rules:
Attuned to Magic - 5+ ward and close combat attacks are magical. in add, when rolling to determine the strength of the winds of magic, compare the highest d6 rolled with the table below and determine the effect.
1 = ward is 6+ instead
2 = phoenix has -1 s
3 = phoenix has +1I
4 = has +1A
5= +1S
6=ward 4+
Fireborn - 2+ ward vs. wounds caused by flaming attacks
Flaming Attacks
Fly
Large Target
Phoenix Reborn - as soon as he loves his last wound, remove the model and place a phoenix reborn counter to mark the centre of the death spot. at the end of the turn roll a d6 for each phoenix reborn counter and consult the table. 1-2 dead forever, 3-5 centre a large round template over the center, all models friendly and foe suffers s4 flaming, the counter remains in play, roll at the end of next turn, yours or oppos. Rise from the ashes on 6+, place him anywhere within 6" of the center, at least 1" away and remove marker. He is back with d3+2 wounds. If you have a rider, he dies with the phoenix, or he returns with the phoenix. If the phoenix died with a rider on him, add +1 to you roll.
Terror
Wake of Fire - if he moves over one or more uneganged enemy units, choose one of those units - that unit suffers d6 s4 hits plus d3 per rank after the first. flaming,

Frostheart Phoenix = 240
WS6 S6 T6 5W I3 4A Ld. 9
Attuned to magic
blizzard aura - any enemy UNIT in base contact with him has ASL and -1S
natural armor 5+

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower = 70 points
2 Sea Guard crew
Rare, can take up to 4

Great Eagles 1+ = 50ppm
Entire unit can get Swiftsense = ASF for 10ppm
Shredding Talons for 5ppm = AP

Tyrion = 410
WS9 BS7 S4 T3 4W I10 4A Ld.10
Sunfang = same +3S flaming, S4 breath once a game, magical
Dragon Armor of Aenarion - 1+ AS, 4+ ward and Fireborn 2+ ward vs. fire
Heart of Averlorn - MR2, if he dies, roll d6, on a 2+ he negates the wound and the heart is destroyed
Defender of Ulthuan - 18" presence

Teclis = 450
T2 3W Ld.10
Sword of Teclis - wound on 2+ no AS
Moonstaff of Lileath - one use only - you can either choose to add a bonus power die to each casting attempt, of if teclis suffers a miscast, the miscast is ignored. In either case, Teclis' S and T are both reduced to 1 for the remainder of the game ROFL
Scroll of hoeth - one use only - same
Warcrown of Saphery - Increases his Wizard level by one, so he's a Lv.5 wizard technically
Teclis does not generate spells, he either knows all of the spells from High Magic or can choose one spell from each of the 8 lores (yes, chooses)
Lileath's Blessing - +1 to cast from all lore of high magic

Magic spells:
Apotehosis
5+ augment 18"
immediately regains 1 wound, 10+ for d3 wounds. Regardless of how many wounds gained, you also gain Fear.

Arcane Unforging
13+, direct damage with 24" single enemy model. Suffers a wound on a dice grear than or equal to unmodified armor save. No AS allowed. Reveal to the caster all magic items, if you have more than one, randomly select one and its destroyed on 2+.

Drain Magic (sig)
cast on 7+
friend or foe within 18"
friendly augment, hex on enemy
all RIP spells affecting the unit are immediately dispelled, and affects of all other spells on the target unit immediately come to an end. Can be all units within 18" for 14+.

Fiery Convocation
Cast on 19+
RIP
Direct damage 24". every model takes S4 flaming, at the end of every subsequent magic phase, every model suffers S4 flaming.

Hand of Glory 5+
augment 18"
Target's WS, BS, I or M is +d3. You can choose all for 10+.

Shield of Saphery (lore attribute)
Each time a spell is succesfully cast, the caster and his unit immediately gain +1 to their ward save to max of 3. If you don't have one, 6+. Stacks.

Soul Quench (sig)
cast on 8+
magical missile, 18", 2d6 s4 hits, or 4d6 s4 hits, 16+

Tempest 12+
direct damage. large round template within 30" of wiz, scatters d6. All models hit suffer s3 hits (models flying is s4). If a model suffers any unsaved wounds, it suffers -1 to all hit both shooting and cc. Those that do not use BS needs a 4+ to fire.

Walk between worlds
cast on 8+
augment, 24+
Gain Ethereal and can immediately move to 10" as if it were remaining moves sub-phase.
Can make it go 20" + Ethereal on a 16"

Purchaseable magic items

Blade of leaping gold - 70 points

Star Lance - 30 points, +3S, no AS

Reaver Bow - 20 points
+1S, volley Multiple shots 3

Armor of Caledor for 50 points

Shadow Armor - 25 points, 5+ AS, Scouts, Strider

Shield of the Mermrym - 15pts, shield, unless he's using a weapon that uses 2 hands, he has parry 4+, can be used with a magic weapon

golden crown of atrazar - 10 points, talisman

Moranion's wayshard - enchanted, 50 points. Models on foot only. Has ambushers special rule. He can give archers or Spearmen up to 30 units in size the same immediately before deployment. He has to join that unit if he does.

Kharine's Ring of Fury - 25 points

Gem of Sunfire - 20 points

Cloak of Beards - 10 points

Book of Hoeth - 55 points

Banner of World Dragon - 50 points - SO ****ING GOOD WOW

Random Magic Items and other special rules:

Warrior mage - First spell generated by dragon mage is always flaming sword.

Windrider - Sea Helm on Lothern Skycutter has 4+ ward against shooting attacks. Can also re-roll dangerous terrain.

Witness to Destiny - 4+ ward (assuming this is anointed)

touch of the everqueen - her close combat attacks vs. forces of destruction have HKB.

The shieldstone of Isha - Talisman, the shieldstone of isha grants Alarielle and her unit a 5+ ward vs. any non-magical attacks.

Stave of Averlorn - one use only, arcane. It allows Alerielle to immediately attempt to cast a spell she already cast that phase, even if failed or miscast.

Stone of midnight - Alith 4+ ward, enemies suffer -1 to hit when shooting against Alith or his unit.

Swooping Strike - a model upgraded has Devastating Charge and +1S on the turn he charges.

Talisman of Hoeth - Eltharion has MR1, counts as a Lv.2 Wiz, who uses spells from any of the 8 lores.

Mark of Asuryan - If Caradryan dies, d3 wounds no AS.

The moonbow - 36" S7 D3 wounds quick to fire, no AS. dark Elves suffer -1 ld.

Naval Disipline - If a unit containing at least one sea helm is successfully charged during the movement phase, it can attempt to change formation immediately after your opponent has moved all of his charging units. To do so, the unit must take a Ld. test. If passed, immediately combat reform. A unit cannot use this if made a Flee! or stand and shoot (doh!).

Pelt of Charandis - Korhil counts his AS as one higher vs. CC, 2 points higher vs. non-magic shooting. Poison does not auto wound, wound as normal.

Phoenix Blade - +1S, flaming, d3 wounds, Caradryan's.

Quicksilver Shot - Models shooting attacks have quick to fire as do all sisters of averlorn and high sisters in the same unit.

Reckless - Dragon mage +2 to cast from lore of fire (cumulative with other bonuses), never receive bonuses to dispel.

Repeater Bolt Thrower - same, normal Bolt thrower or 6 shots, S4 AP.

Shadow Crown - Alith and his unit have Swiftstride.

Helm of Yvresse - +1 to Eltharion's AS and gives him and his mount 5+ ward.
Horn of Isha. enchanted. one use, can be used at the start of one of your movement phases. For the remainder of the turn, all models in the unit receive +1 to hit on all shooting and close combat attacks.

Ilthilmar Barding - No movement penalty barding

Khaine's Ring of Fury - BL3, enchanted, Soul Quench from Lore of High Magic. 18" 2d6 S4 hits

Lileath's blessing - Models with this special rule gain +1 to cast when using High Magic

Lion Cloak - models wearing a lion cloak adds +2 AS against non-magical shooting attacks.

Gem of Sunfire - Enchanted. One use only. All bearer's spells, shooting attacks, close combat (and his mounts) have +1 to wound, provided they also have the flaming attacks special rule.
Golden Crown of Atrazar - Talisman, one use. 2+ ward against first wounding hit by wearer.

Armor of Caledor 2+, 6+ Ward, Fireborn special rule - 2+ ward vs. flaming
Banner of Averlorn - Spells from Lore of Light and Life by a friendly unit containing the banner are +4 to cast. If Alarielle is slain, this is immediately lost.
Banner of World Dragon - 2+ ward vs. all wounds caused by spells, magic weapons, and magical attacks. Furthermore, all dragons within 12" of the World Dragon have Stubborn.
Blade of Leaping Gold - +3 attacks, any roll to wound of 6 ignores AS.
Book of Hoeth - Allows the user to re-roll a single dice from each of his casting or dispel attempts, results of 6 cannot be re-rolled.
Cloak of Beards - Enchanted. Cause Fear. Against Dwarfs, cause Terror. Dwarfs gain hatred vs. you. At the start of each cc phase, roll d6 for each magic item carried by each model from warhammer dwarfs in base contact with wearer. On a 4+ the magic item is destroyed and cannot be used..etc.

Deflect shots - 6+ ward against non-magical shooting attacks
Dragon Armor - 5+ armor, 6+ ward and Fireborn Special rule.

Dragon Fire - A dragon's breath weapon is S4, flaming

Eagle Eye Bolt Thrower
24" S5 Multiple Wounds D3, no AS

Fangsword of Iltharion - +2S, no AS caused by Fangsword

Boon of Isha - All models in the Everqueen's unit are magical. Her unit is Immune to Fear/Terror.

Blessings of Ausryan - all models that contain an anointed of Asuryan havea 6+ ward save and is ItP.
Blood Oath - Ethlarion gains +1 to hit vs. Grom.

Chaos Bane - At the start of each of Allerille's magic phase, before rolling for winds, every unit with the demonic special rule within 12" of her suffers d6 s4 distriubuted like shooting. However, she suffers -d3 penalty to her casting attempts if there is one of more models with demon within 12" of her.

Chayal - +2S, Paired Weapon, Killing Blow

Bow of Averlorn - 24" S4 Arrows of Isha, Flaming, Volley Fire
Arrows of Isha - magical. -1 AS against wounds caused to forces of destruction

[White Tiger88]

In May with a late April advance order, as per Hastings on Warseer:

Nice.....i could use some discount phoenix guard......... (hopefully they will get a new box set?)

[Learn2Eel]

If Daemons are released this month, I can definitely wait until the High Elf book is released to really get going on them again.

[Wildeybeast]

Is that it? No more info? Not sure how believable I find that...

[eldargal]

It was in a general release rumours thread, there are other older rumours about what exactly the release will consist of.:)

[Wildeybeast]

Most of which sounded like wishlisting IIRC. ;) I also find it odd we have this release window but not what is coming in between now and then. As always, believe it when I see it.

[eldargal]

We do know (insofar as reliable rumours are ever knowing):
Daemons (March)
Tau (April)
High Elves (May)
Lizardmen
Eldar (November)

Possibly out of order:
Dwarves
Dark Elves

There is also a 40k expansion and some other things coming between High Elves and Lizardmen.

[White Tiger88]

Really Dark Elfs???? BEFORE wood elfs??????? Gw really hates those hippys don't they! (I can't blame them though)

[eldargal]

There was some talk of Wood Elves being worked on.

[Malcontent]

Nice.....i could use some discount phoenix guard......... (hopefully they will get a new box set?)

Very unlikely, the plastics were released in late 2010. We might get repackaged Isle of Blood Swordmasters and Reavers, but new Phoenix Guard? I doubt it.

[White Tiger88]

Very unlikely, the plastics were released in late 2010. We might get repackaged Isle of Blood Swordmasters and Reavers, but new Phoenix Guard? I doubt it.

Hey i can hope........they make better graveguard with some conversion work then the graveguard kit!

[Wildeybeast]

Really Dark Elfs???? BEFORE wood elfs??????? Gw really hates those hippys don't they! (I can't blame them though)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. WE (and possibly Brets) will do very well to see a new book in 8th Ed. The playstyles of both these armies are completely unsuited to this editions focus on big blocks of foot troops and I don't see how they can overcome this without changing the fundamental nature of WE. I honestly don't think anyone in the studio knows how to fix either WE or Brets which is why they are being left alone.

[Chronowraith]

I really don't think Brets require much "fixing". I see them win in 8th edition more often than they lose... they are just rare to see in the first place due to the age of their book.

I agree about Wood Elves mostly, though.

Nonetheless, I look forward to a new high elf book. They need something to make them less boring while at the same time making them work WITHOUT a stupid army-wide gimmick.

[Learn2Eel]

It would be very hard to do though, as I think a lot of units would need severe readjustments to balance out the loss of ASF. If they did that too, they would still need to keep it on certain units - i.e. Sword Masters. I think they will keep it, as it would probably be too much work otherwise. They are supposed to be elite and outnumbered compared to other armies, and it is pretty hard to pull that off - I can't see what other avenues they could explore. Regardless of what they do, they need to adjust the pricing of our Core, chariots and special characters. Teclis needs a big price increase - or a nerfing, though I can't see them nerfing him too much based on his fluff - and Tyrion/Eltharion/Alith Anar need price drops. Though, I can see them buffing Tyrion up a lot, as he was pointed based on an edition where you could take all three of his 1+ armour/4+ regen/4+ ward saves. He does happen to be Aenarion reborn after all, and he really needs to compare well to Teclis in terms of power level in the sense of combat. I think our special choices for the most part are fine, though Phoenix Guard might have a price increase, whereas Shadow Warriors, Bolt Throwers and so on either need rules changes or price drops.

I'm hopeful the codex is more balanced than the current one, and that more of the choices become viable. As it is, competitive armies tend to revolve around Teclis/Archmage with Phoenix Guard, Sword Masters, White Lions and a minimum of core. However, I do hope they don't drop a lot of what makes the codex feel so unique - i.e. the cheap magic items, the insanely powerful mages, etc. Call me crazy, but I've adjusted to that sort of stuff. They need to change it so that we aren't as reliant on our top-end magicians though.

So basically (warning; wishlisting);

*Bump Teclis' price up to about 575 or maybe more, but keep his abilities as is - he is supposed to be the/one of the most powerful magic user(s) in the world.
*Either make Tyrion more powerful or give him a price drop, needs to be altered to reflect that you can't take both a Regen save and a Ward save.
*Adjust Phoenix Guard - they are one of the best units in the game and either need to have their price increased somewhat or be nerfed a bit, though it might not be necessary.
*If they do drop ASF army-wide, then make sure to keep it on Sword Masters and other units that should have it.
*Shadow Warriors, change them up. They are so bad it isn't funny, especially considering they cost more than Phoenix Guard, Sword Masters and White Lions. Wha-?

*Get rid of some of the more OP magic items, perhaps the Book of Hoeth and the like - like other 8th codices, their magic items will be cut down severely most likely, but they should still keep the army wide trait of cheaper ones.
*Make them less reliant on Teclis/Archmages, i.e. Princes and the like will be seen more often competitively, of course you still need magic but don't make them an almost must-include over Princes and so on. Make it so less units are reliant on buffs/debuffs from them.
*Move Silver Helms to Core. Not only does it make sense, it will make them so much more useful, even without cost/ability adjustments. Mobile Core to fit into a mobile army featuring flying Archmages/Princes and Dragon Princes?
*By the same note, maybe look at making Tiranoc Chariots Core - a lot of armies are now getting Core choice Chariots, and our Special section is over-inflated anyway. This leads into....
*Either make the Tiranoc Chariot better, or drop its price. Drop the price of the White Lion chariot. Make them more useful!

*Eltharion is ok, but he doesn't compare favourably to a Prince. Make him more powerful and drop his price somewhat. Also, would it be too much to ask to get his 'blind bad-backside' background back?
*Bring Princes, Archmages, Nobles and Mages in line with other 8th codices in terms of price versus raw power. Keep a lot of the options that make High Elf characters unique.
*Caradryan and Korhil are fine methinks, but maybe the former could use a bit of a price drop. Maybe.
*Drop the prices for command for every unit in the codex - which is a given anyway.

*Make the Dragon Mages more viable. Either make them less expensive, give them better equipment or change it so they don't always have to take the Lore of Fire. Our Mages pay for their versatility, and the Lore of Fire doesn't really help our army.
*Cost the mounts more appropriately. They don't really need their stats changed, though maybe the Griffon should have the option for a regen save or something. As it is, a Griffon should be a bit cheaper compared to a Sun Dragon. And also, maybe reduce the points difference between each tier of dragon - not too much though. Make steeds cheaper.
*Let every Core choice take magic banners, like with newer codices. Should be an army-wide trait anyway.
*Our Core needs adjusting, but no more so than Lothern Sea Guard. They pay too much for their versatility.

[Kirsten]

the Wood Elf book is superb, it has no need of an update any time soon. the high elves don't either, an equally excellent book. It is simply a question of getting round to the remaining ones.

[Wildeybeast]

the Wood Elf book is superb, it has no need of an update any time soon. the high elves don't either, an equally excellent book. It is simply a question of getting round to the remaining ones.

:confused: If I didn't know you better Kirsten I'd say you were trolling. :p I'm curious as to why you think the WE is superb when everyone else thinks it is not fit for 8th Ed. Sure you can make a reasonably competitive army out of it if you pick the right things out it, but you are always facing an uphill battle with it and it is incredibly restrictive given half the stuff in there is useless (not to mention still being in metal so expensive to buy and a pain to model with).

[Chronowraith]

the Wood Elf book is superb, it has no need of an update any time soon. the high elves don't either, an equally excellent book. It is simply a question of getting round to the remaining ones.

To each their own.... I tend to disagree on both counts. Like Wildey I'm interested in hearing why you think both books are fine.

The High Elf book is incredibly bland when compared to previous incarnations or even the other 7th edition army books. It has many units that are horribly underpowered and/or overcosted and units which are horribly overpowered and/or undercosted. Plus, they relied on a gimmick to make the army work and that gimmick is horribly powerful in the context of 8th edition with rerolls for ASF, supporting attacks, etc.

As for the Wood Elves... they can be competitive but they really only have two viable builds to do so (treekin and MSU gladeguard with dryad screen). Both require a fairly skilled player to pull off and the treekin list is easily destroyed by flaming attacks and/or magic attacks that do multiple wounds. Gladeguard army requires a LARGE amount of skill and practice to pull off compared to the relative ease of just about every other army. I'd rank Beastmen and Bretonnians as having better army books and Beastmen have been weak since the day their new book arrived.

[Wildeybeast]

The High Elf book is incredibly bland when compared to previous incarnations or even the other 7th edition army books.

Seconded. I hope they move away from ASF and give something a bit more characterful to replace. I for one always liked the old courtly intrigue rules. Their core needs to be cheaper and have a greater selection of useful units and the special rare stuff needs a points increase in most cases.

[Chronowraith]

Seconded. I hope they move away from ASF and give something a bit more characterful to replace. I for one always liked the old courtly intrigue rules. Their core needs to be cheaper and have a greater selection of useful units and the special rare stuff needs a points increase in most cases.

Agreed. Although I doubt we'll see any court intrigue make a comeback. GW doesn't seem keen on any potentially harmful random effects of that nature (minus mishap tables and such). HE core definitely need a revamp. Despite being incredibly strong (all of their choices) they need diversity and they need point drops. I suspect we'll see all the core choices become a little cheaper and potentially see chariots and silver helms move over to the core slot (if trends from other books continue).

ASF was only implemented as a way around the "Units that charge strike first" of previous editions so it definitely needs to be reconsidered. I don't know what would be a suitable replacement though. I'd suggest Stubborn but that is more of a Dwarf thing.

[Kirsten]

The High Elf book is incredibly bland when compared to previous incarnations or even the other 7th edition army books.

the current high elf book has ten times the character of the previous two. 5th edition was fine, but the sixth edition book, when every other army lost special rules and became cheaper, high elves lost their special rules and remained the same cost. The 6th edition high elf book was unplayable, it stood no chance whatsoever. The 7th edition book is a massive improvement, extra attacks, always strikes first, some rules back in, that god awful courtly intrigue nonsense removed. I wouldn't disagree with some of the changes listed, but it is a great book all in all. Wood elves have loads of special rules and attacks, great mobility and shooting, glade riders and warhawk riders make a great harassment army, wardancers are great. they play very differently to other armies which I approve of. I wanted to see a new bretonnian book, but with 8th edition making the, in my opinion awful, move of stripping out unique magic items, makes me worry. I see the items and virtues taking a big nerf, the lance formation has already been well and truly shafted by the FAQ, I would rather just stick with the current one...

[Learn2Eel]

To be honest, any army book/codex that has only two viable builds - and I don't even mean for competitive play - either isn't well designed or hasn't adapted at all well to the new rules. Whilst High Elves are fine in local play usually, Wood Elves suffer big-time from what I've seen. Whilst any army book/codex can be made competitive, it does hurt when you are seemingly forced down one or two paths if you want to have a chance at winning consistently.

[Chronowraith]

To be honest, any army book/codex that has only two viable builds - and I don't even mean for competitive play - either isn't well designed or hasn't adapted at all well to the new rules. Whilst High Elves are fine in local play usually, Wood Elves suffer big-time from what I've seen. Whilst any army book/codex can be made competitive, it does hurt when you are seemingly forced down one or two paths if you want to have a chance at winning consistently.

Most armies have only a couple playstyles, true. Most armies have multiple builds to pull off each of those playstyles. Look at Skaven. They really only have one playstyle (horde) but they have many viable builds with which to accomplish this. This is accomplished by having a book with good internal balance amongst units so that most of the units are usable and worth taking. Currently Skaven only have a couple units that are largely avoided. While there are some constants such as HPAs and Skavenslaves the rest of the army can take on a rather diverse composition. I'll even argue that the only unit that is common to every Skaven aremy are slaves (I rarely use HPAs personally). So I don't agree that every army only has one or two builds and this is especially true of the newer 8th edition army books.

My point about Wood Elves is that even with one of the two "good" builds you have to be an extremely skilled player AND go up against the right list. Bring treekin against an army with lots of flaming attacks and you don't stand a chance (or even against armies with a lot of damaging magic attacks). I know this next part is anecdotal so take from it what you will, and I also know I'm no star player by any means, but in 7th edition my win ratio against wood elves was around 66-75%... in 8th edition I have only lost a single game to Wood Elves and that was against a nationally ranked player (and my best friend plays wood elves so I play against them quite frequently).

[Learn2Eel]

I was saying "any army" mate, not "every army" lol. But I agree.

[Wildeybeast]

the current high elf book has ten times the character of the previous two. 5th edition was fine, but the sixth edition book, when every other army lost special rules and became cheaper, high elves lost their special rules and remained the same cost. The 6th edition high elf book was unplayable, it stood no chance whatsoever. The 7th edition book is a massive improvement, extra attacks, always strikes first, some rules back in, that god awful courtly intrigue nonsense removed. I wouldn't disagree with some of the changes listed, but it is a great book all in all. Wood elves have loads of special rules and attacks, great mobility and shooting, glade riders and warhawk riders make a great harassment army, wardancers are great. they play very differently to other armies which I approve of. I wanted to see a new bretonnian book, but with 8th edition making the, in my opinion awful, move of stripping out unique magic items, makes me worry. I see the items and virtues taking a big nerf, the lance formation has already been well and truly shafted by the FAQ, I would rather just stick with the current one...

See now I'm interested to know how you are successfully using warhawk riders and wardancers because I would have said they were the two most useless units in the army under 8th ed. How are you getting them to work for you and against what armies?

[Chronowraith]

I was saying "any army" mate, not "every army" lol. But I agree.

Given that one of the definitions of "any" is actually "every" you can understand my misunderstanding.


See now I'm interested to know how you are successfully using warhawk riders and wardancers because I would have said they were the two most useless units in the army under 8th ed. How are you getting them to work for you and against what armies?

I"ve seen Warhawk Riders used to hunt skirmishers and Light Cavalry but the general rule I've heard from most Wood Elf generals is, "Anything Warhawk Riders can do, Waywatchers can do better". Wardancers were hit hard by 8th edition changes to skirmishing.

[Wildeybeast]

Not to mention the front rank still getting to attack and the second rank making supporting attacks.

[bobrunnicles]

Agreed. Although I doubt we'll see any court intrigue make a comeback. GW doesn't seem keen on any potentially harmful random effects of that nature (minus mishap tables and such).

Of course, this was posted BEFORE the most recent Daemons book lol.....

[Learn2Eel]

Just wanted to say that the High Elf Battalion is no longer available in certain countries - I checked myself and it isn't available in the UK, amongst others. Whilst we know Tau are in this months' White Dwarf, I think this is solid evidence (backing Hastings' incredible track record) that High Elves are coming right after Tau.

[Chronowraith]

I'm really starting to like this 1 army book / codex per month thing. I know that it will slow down eventually but I'm pretty impressed with GW picking up the pace for the time being.

While I have no plans to start high elves, I am really looking forward to their new Army Book. They need a few revisions to balance the book but I've always enjoyed the aesthetic design of the army. So far the rumors sound like they will add some much needed hitting power to the elves of Ulthuan. We'll see if the existing units receive the re-balancing they need.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm really starting to like this 1 army book / codex per month thing. I know that it will slow down eventually but I'm pretty impressed with GW picking up the pace for the time being.

Will it though? If you throw in the WD updates for the likes of Warriors, Daemons and VC, you can easily have a major update every other month for the life of an edition. As long as they keep that up I'm happy.

[eldargal]

From Ulthuan.net:

GENERAL SPECIAL RULES:
-NO ASF or Valor as we know it today.
-Elven Dexterity: units with this rule can use parry save when wielding any weapon, even if mounted (some units may use it against shooting or even if mounted).
-Special rule for rolling an additional dice on chase an remove the lowest result (or four dice removing two lowest dices to swift stride).
-IaC: more than ******** around, there are chances that the general may somehow help, dependin on region/power chosen it benefits some units.

SPECIAL RULES ON WEAPONRY:
-Elven Weapons: no penalties on two-handed or moving&shooting (there may exist extra bonus on elite units). (Translator says: in the beginning I thought of SW, but maybe maidens are also here).
-Ithilmar armor: no penalties when moving, +1AS on heavy armor (only on elite units).
-Dragon Armor: 3+ armor save against flaming attacks.
-Lion Pelt: Can also be used in CC.

MAGIC SPECIAL RULES:
-Elven Mages: +1 to dispel and can repeat channelings.
-High Magic: More powerful spells and representing the 8 lores of magic. It is said that there is one that gives life back to a dead character and other one specific against Chaos and "Bad" armies. They will be the most powerful sorcerers until Lizards get renewed after summer. Some rules will be shared with them.

SPECIFIC RULES ON UNITS:
-Martial Prowess: Elves fight and shoot with a extra rank (not specified, but this could be armywide).
-Spears and LSG: heavy armor and shield option.
-Archers: Light Armor.
-SHs: Heavy armor. Cheaper.
-Ellyrian Reavers: Same.
-T-Chariot: Same, cheaper.
-SMs: Parry save against shooting, Swords of Hoeth, Paths fighting.
-White Lions: Lumber Axes, Stubborn, Forest Stride.
-Phoenix Guard: Know their destiny (unbreakable), Magic Resistance, Ward Save. (maybe something about flaming attacks).
-SWs: Stalkers (?), Night Warriors (?).
-DPs: Caledor Proudness, all the rest remains the same.
-Lion Chariot: Same, cheaper.
-Flying Chariot: RBT on top of it, crew with elven weapons.
-RBT: cheaper, better.
-Dragons: Will of the Dragon (mix of 5ed. rule plus communion with rider that makes them share some rules). Super Dragon (Caledor Dragon?) may be wizard too.
-Phoenix: May be consecrated to Asuryan or another God (Phoenix alone or in a shrine?)
-Fire Dragons (MC): same as dragon princes, beast mounted is better than eagle but worse than a hypogryphe. Fly, 1+AS. Rare.
-Maiden Guard: Avelorn Mirror (?), Deadly in CC (?) (Translator says: I think no one knows what they'd do. I thought they would not exist, thought this was a wishlist... Maybe it's just a unit upgrade after all...).
-Warrior-mage (different from dragon-mage): Hoeth disciplines, fighting magic (guy was convinced one of them would be Belannaer).


REMEMBER: All this are rumors. Cheers
So, Maiden guard are back if these rumours are accurate. Not the only source reporting a female unit either:

oth of these will be plastic kits:
- A unit of lasses that look to be using bows formed from water. They're something to do with Avalon?
- A unit wielding bows and swords, with face-covering helms. I understand these to be called Shadow Soldiers or something to that effect.

[Kirsten]

all sounds great, hope it is true I love my high elves.

[pgarfunkle]

That's interesting that the rumour suggests that some magic rules will be shared with Lizardmen, now I'm wondering if some of the Elven specific rules ie dexterity and weapons will be shared with the other elven races when redone.

[Learn2Eel]

I've been waiting quite patiently for the new High Elves; in fact, I haven't touched them since about midway through last year. I knew they were coming (according to Hastings), so no reason to buy stuff I like or don't like if my opinion changes dramatically with the new codex. From the sounds of it, we are losing Speed of Asuryan, but getting a lot of special rules unique to each unit in return. To me, that seems like they are just complicating things, though if it solves the balance issues with our army, I'm sold.

On the note of Hastings, I have a very funny feeling he is spot on about High Elves following immediately after Tau. That he's been correct about every release so far since 6th Edition 40K dropped paints a pretty good picture! Let's hope :)

[Chronowraith]

Overall nice stuff. I like the addition of the flying chariot and phoenix and the return of the maiden guard. I'm wary of more prevalent dragons for many reasons (fluff and rules).

I really hope that phoenix guard are only unbreakable under certain conditions (like a named character in the unit or something akin to that). Phoenix guard are already ridiculous, making the best unit in the book even more powerful isn't going to help the internal balance of the book at all. My one caveat to this is if they are moved to the rare section.

[Brakkart]

I'm wary of more prevalent dragons for many reasons (fluff and rules).

Actually more prevalent dragons fits the fluff perfectly given that at the end of Graham McNeill's 2 part High Elf saga the dragons of Caledor were woken up... all of them! I can highly recommend reading the books that are both contained in the new Elves anthology as they really are game changers for Ulthuan and if the new Army Book has been written to take those changes into account it will make a for a very interesting read indeed.

[Chronowraith]

Actually more prevalent dragons fits the fluff perfectly given that at the end of Graham McNeill's 2 part High Elf saga the dragons of Caledor were woken up... all of them! I can highly recommend reading the books that are both contained in the new Elves anthology as they really are game changers for Ulthuan and if the new Army Book has been written to take those changes into account it will make a for a very interesting read indeed.

I'll have to put them on the list. I'm way behind on my reading due to personal life + convention preparations but after the next three weeks my reading time should open up.

I still have reservations regarding rules. Dragons are already expensive enough as character mounts and if they maintain their abilities and stat-lines I don't see that changing anytime soon. But, I'll be more than willing to let GW prove me wrong though. The "Good" armies really need something to draw players in as right now. With the exception of Empire, most of them are pretty bland and plain compared to the "Evil" or even the "Neutral" armies.

[robbietobbie]

There's a leaked photo or two on faeit (can't link though because im work blocked) but those pheonixes look great. Really impressive stuff

[gcsmith]

If only I played fantasy regularly, looks good, but I think it would take brets to bring me back to fantasy now, even thought I have a HE army.

[Jared van Kell]

Actually more prevalent dragons fits the fluff perfectly given that at the end of Graham McNeill's 2 part High Elf saga the dragons of Caledor were woken up... all of them! I can highly recommend reading the books that are both contained in the new Elves anthology as they really are game changers for Ulthuan and if the new Army Book has been written to take those changes into account it will make a for a very interesting read indeed.

Now that is an interesting development. Since Ulthuan is now once again in a state of war with the Dark Elves once more as well as moving to assist the Empire fight off Archaon (once again :p) it will be all hands to the pump now.

JvK :cool:

[Brakkart]

Now that is an interesting development. Since Ulthuan is now once again in a state of war with the Dark Elves once more as well as moving to assist the Empire fight off Archaon (once again :p) it will be all hands to the pump now.

JvK :cool:

Yeah there is a truly fantastic sequence near the end of the second book where Lothern is under siege by a Black Ark (and it is losing) and Tyrion, Eltharion and the Phoenix King (and a few other notables) look up in awe (and Malekith looks up in abject terror!) as Imrik arrives to save the day with a flight of hundreds of dragons which proceed to annihilate the Dark Elf force (Malekith uses magic to flee if I remember rightly as pretty sure his dragon gets munched). It follows from a great bit earlier in the same book where Imrik has all but given into despair in the caverns of Caledor as not a single dragon will answer his call to arms. Their sleep of ages has too strong a grip on them for even him to wake them... and then (due to events elsewhere in Ulthuan which I won't spoil, seriously read the books cos they are awesome) all the dragons begin to wake, including the really massive ones that have slept since the time of Aenarion!

If they have incorporated that into the new High Elf book (and they really really should) then the Dark Elves are in serious trouble.

[eldargal]

Hope the rumours of a giant new HE dragon kit are true then.:)

[FireHazard]

seriously read the books cos they are awesome

Agreed :)

If the Maiden Guard are making a reappearance, can we then expect the Everqueen too? Be nice to see her drop by with her one attack of non-violence. I always figured it was a quick peck on the cheek, reducing her opponent to a quivering, love struck wreck ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nice.....i could use some discount phoenix guard......... (hopefully they will get a new box set?)

But they're already plastic???

[eldargal]

Agreed :)

If the Maiden Guard are making a reappearance, can we then expect the Everqueen too? Be nice to see her drop by with her one attack of non-violence. I always figured it was a quick peck on the cheek, reducing her opponent to a quivering, love struck wreck ;)
Maidenguard and the Everqueen are both rumoured to be on the way. I think in her previous rules she was a wizard so maybe she will have a unique spell selection based on buffs or defbuffs rather than pwnage.

TDA is correct, Phoenix Guard just got a new plastic kit in the last couple of years, they won't get a new one.

[Mr Mystery]

Kinda hope they don't make Elves too resilient. It's not what they're meant for. Small, elite(ish) army able to pick and choose it's fights shouldn't depend on resilience to do so.

Seriously hoping some of the earlier rumours are just wishlisting....

[Chronowraith]

Kinda hope they don't make Elves too resilient. It's not what they're meant for. Small, elite(ish) army able to pick and choose it's fights shouldn't depend on resilience to do so.

Seriously hoping some of the earlier rumours are just wishlisting....

I don't think their resiliency will be affected much. Moving from 6+ armor to 5+ armor while remaining T3 means almost nothing. The big key is how are martial prowess and elven weaponry implemented. If they are across the board then you will see an army that can dish out some pretty impressive power. If they reserve it to specific units for each rule then the impact will still be felt, but not as great (and I'd trade ASF for +1 rank attacking, no ASL, and no Move and Fire penalties any day).

Curious that it looks like intrigue is making a comeback but this time it looks like it will be beneficial and not a hindrance. Sounds similar to the warlord tables from 6th edition 40k.

[HERO]

Yeah there is a truly fantastic sequence near the end of the second book where Lothern is under siege by a Black Ark (and it is losing) and Tyrion, Eltharion and the Phoenix King (and a few other notables) look up in awe (and Malekith looks up in abject terror!) as Imrik arrives to save the day with a flight of hundreds of dragons which proceed to annihilate the Dark Elf force (Malekith uses magic to flee if I remember rightly as pretty sure his dragon gets munched). It follows from a great bit earlier in the same book where Imrik has all but given into despair in the caverns of Caledor as not a single dragon will answer his call to arms. Their sleep of ages has too strong a grip on them for even him to wake them... and then (due to events elsewhere in Ulthuan which I won't spoil, seriously read the books cos they are awesome) all the dragons begin to wake, including the really massive ones that have slept since the time of Aenarion!

If they have incorporated that into the new High Elf book (and they really really should) then the Dark Elves are in serious trouble.

Which book is this? The part about the dragons waking..

[FireHazard]

See here http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/elves-omnibus.html

It's in Sons of Ellyrion.

[Learn2Eel]

Posted by Ozguard battlehammer on Bugman's Forum

I won't say how I know but I can say that the next army book will be High Elves.

They have a number of new things.

Flying Phoenix's (Frost and Fire) that can drop flame templates on units they fly over. Gets abilities based on what is roled on winds of magic
Great Eagle towing chariots (Which can have bolt throwers on them)
New Highmage of Hoeth (Swordsmaster/mage) Gets every signature from all 8 lores.
Everqueen
Silver Helms as Core
Martial Prowess across the board
Archer units with magical bows
Swordsmasters get a parry save vs shooting
New Shadow Warrior Models
The White Dwarf battle report is vs Ogres.

This has proven to be correct so far, so I'm willing to discuss the details. Silver Helms as Core is a great change that finally means they won't be competing with Dragon Princes; that, and a heavy cavalry army (that all fight in an extra rank) will actually be possible now. I don't know about viability, but I guess we will see - if they do all fight in an extra rank though, that is just gravy. New Shadow Warrior models would be fantastic.

[robbietobbie]

I would suddenly be pretty happy about picking up two boxes of silver helms about a year ago.. Been busy painting up all the high elves still asking for a paint job to prepare for this release.. But man, I am never painting 23 archers at the same time again

[Learn2Eel]

Just an FYI, plastic Shadow Warriors are on the way. I can't remember where I found the link, but it is all but confirmed. That earlier rumour that said Phoenixes/plastic Shadow Warriors/Everqueen/the battle report against Ogres is spot on from what I can tell.

[Bigred]

via Warseer 4-14-2013

-HE are going to get a new war machine that mixes RBT and dragon breath/flamethrower. Nobody told Maeltröm if its something independent or part of one of the flying chariots. He thinks that maybe a new war machine.
-Some people now say there will be no MC, so maybe no dragons. Others, instead, keep saying there will be and they give very explicit details. Maelström is confident they can be one of the releases, since if they exist not there will be few new boxes and having two different infantry boxes is both unlikely and unnecessary. He will keep digging to see what he finds.
-Next magic items disappear as you know them nowadays: Star Lance, Dragon Horn, Armor of Caledor (=Imrik coming back?). There is a new magic item: Book of the Phoenix.
-Dragons have awaken. More and more powerful dragons. Imrik is coming back.
-Phoenix King is going to battle.

NEW MODELS (from MORE likely to LESS likely):
1. BOX/KIT: Flying Chariot Sky Talons. Special character on it (Finubar/Eltharion) an option for RBT/flamethrower-dragon breath war machine.
2. BOX/KIT: Phoenix/Phoenix Riders. Options for Special Character (Caradryan?), two/three types of Phoenix (Ice/Fire/Lone one).
3. BOX/KIT: Infantry: 10 Shadow Warriors/Maiden Guard (Some say they will be in two boxes and not in a multikit).
4. BOX/KIT: Monstruos Cavalry "Fire Riders" (dragons)
5. BOX/KIT: Huge Dragon/Monster. Option for Imrik.
6. BOX/KIT: New War Machine (as the one in the flying chariot option B)
7. BOX/KIT: Great Eagles.
8. BOX/KIT: Two elven gods shrines.

BLISTERS (some to be seen on may, others in the future, others never). From MORE likely to LESS likely:
1. BLISTER Warrior Mage (some say with option to build Belannaer)
2. BLISTER Alarielle
3. BLISTER Teclis
4. BLISTER Random hero

PS: Maelström's left apart some things that we are not likely to see in years such us SHs, Spears, SMs, New Griffon and the like. He insists on saying that new release will be: 4-5 boxes and 3-4 blisters, plus book and cards. No surprises (we already know almos everything about that very point). Anyway, it will be WHFB 30th anniversary, and elves are an army that needs something flashy that we haven't seen yet (as happened with Empire), and there may be a surprise.

Swordmasters retain ASF (or similar) and move to Rare
New Helf unit in core with GW

Heard about a unit with Bows and Cloaks

[eldargal]

Radical wishlisting:

I want to see a big change with Alarielle and the Maiden Guard. Drop the tired old 'pacifist, caring queen' nonsense. Make her realise that she can't just sit around getting saved by Tyrion and using her menstrual blood to save the world every century or so. Time to be vigorous in defense of the realm. Send out the Maiden Guard to defend the realm a la Phoenix Guard, make them heavily armoured and hard hitting. Maybe even have Alarielle drop the pacifist stuff herself and become more of an offensive spellcaster.

Given that Ariel has recently begun leading the Wood Elves in a more active defense of the Old World becuase she realised the WElves couldn't survive with their had planted in the sand I don't see this as being unreasonable. You only have to look at Daenerys Terducken to see that people like a forceful queen these days and it's time WFB dropped the damsel in distress, women as carers trope and had the Everqueen start to pull her damned weight instead of living war-craft and state-craft to the men.

[Brakkart]

If they model Alarielle after her appearance in Graham McNeil's two novels I don't think you'll be disappointed EG. There's a great bit in book two when she's on the battlefield and the Slaanesh warlord Asavar Kul charges her on his chaos steed. She uses her magic to rip the Chaos out of first his steed (returning it to its natural state, which shocks everyone watching and thoroughly confuses the horse who throws his rider from his back and then runs off to be a wild horse again) and then does the same to Kul, only Slaanesh doesn't give up his toys that easy and so she gets into a magic tug of war with the god which has the result of Kul being turned into a chaos spawn.

The way McNeil writes her is that she is in essence two people: Alarielle and The Everqueen. One is host to the other which is a primal force of nature. Alarielle is kind, gentle and capable of mercy; The Everqueen... not so much!

And her Maiden Guard are not at all pacifists, they are lethal.

[eldargal]

Sounds positive then and it sounds like she is getting the same sort of revamp Ariel was given which is positive. Always annoyed me that you had these three powerful Elf Queens (Morathi, Alarielle, Ariel) and only one of them ever seemed to do anything, and she was the Bad Girl.:rolleyes:

[Brakkart]

Yeah she's not the first to arrive on a battlefield, which makes sense as Avelorn is tucked away in the core of Ulthuan, but she sure knows how to make an entrance. When she goes to battle with her guard, Avelorn itself comes with her, and her army is made up of fauns, nymphs, satyrs, dryads, centaurs, treemen and all manner of wild animals.

Avelorn is the heart of Ulthuan and it is that sort of life that the elves who remained in the Old World and went on to become the Wood Elves went back too, having previously distanced themselves from that lifestyle in the cities and such of the colonies.

[eldargal]

There were rumours High Elves would be able to take treemen again in the new book, it would be nice if that happened. Avelorn themed list ftw.

[Mr Mystery]

Rumours were going around of a larger Tree Man kit.

Given Woodies rather....marginal nature (sorry Woodie players, but it is one of the more niche armies) it would make sense to let High Elves take it as well, from a purely financial point of view.

[eldargal]

Well I've no doubt that Wood Elves will get the Dark Eldar treatment in time (2015) and I think High Elves used to be able to take treemen or at least they were known ot inhabit Avelorn from the beginning. I'd prefer to see a new HE treeman kit myself, based on a beech tree or something less gnarled than the WE version.

There was some speculation that Ariel as the manifestation of the forest and the Everqueen as manifestation of Avelorn may be some sort of proto-elven goddess like Gaia.

[Mr Mystery]

True enough. Indeed, Malekith's Dad whose name I can't recall right now...his kids with the Everqueen were protected by a Treeman.

Looking forward to this release, even if some of the rumours above seem a bit off....

[eldargal]

Aenarion.

Most of the rules rumours are almost certainly nonsense, that's usually the way with rumours these days. A few more people see mto be posting reliable info about what kits are coming but nearly all the rules rumours are false up until around the time advance orders up up and people start getting early access.

[Mr Mystery]

I do wish people would just stop making up rumours. They're inherently, unavoidable always found it, and it serves no real purpose.

[spaceman91]

If they model Alarielle after her appearance in Graham McNeil's two novels I don't think you'll be disappointed EG. There's a great bit in book two when she's on the battlefield and the Slaanesh warlord Asavar Kul charges her on his chaos steed. She uses her magic to rip the Chaos out of first his steed (returning it to its natural state, which shocks everyone watching and thoroughly confuses the horse who throws his rider from his back and then runs off to be a wild horse again) and then does the same to Kul, only Slaanesh doesn't give up his toys that easy and so she gets into a magic tug of war with the god which has the result of Kul being turned into a chaos spawn.

The way McNeil writes her is that she is in essence two people: Alarielle and The Everqueen. One is host to the other which is a primal force of nature. Alarielle is kind, gentle and capable of mercy; The Everqueen... not so much!

And her Maiden Guard are not at all pacifists, they are lethal.

So she is a bit like Galadriel in the fall of the necromancer? ( Minus the tug of war thing )

[Brakkart]

So she is a bit like Galadriel in the fall of the necromancer? ( Minus the tug of war thing )

I wouldn't know, never got past the halfway point of reading the Hobbit and read even less of Lord of the Rings. Tolkein might create a great fantasy world and all but his prose is so dry, not to my taste at all.

In the books Alarielle is almost killed by an assassin and it is revealed that Alarielle is in essence a host body for The Everqueen which is a much older and far more powerful entity, akin to a goddess. The Everqueen is on par with the Chaos Gods, Khaine, Ulric etc, but her ability to interact with the world is restricted to her needing a mortal host. this is something that very few elves know, to most of them Everqueen is Alarielle's title, only a handful know the truth.

[Wildeybeast]

Sounds positive then and it sounds like she is getting the same sort of revamp Ariel was given which is positive. Always annoyed me that you had these three powerful Elf Queens (Morathi, Alarielle, Ariel) and only one of them ever seemed to do anything, and she was the Bad Girl.:rolleyes:

Ariel has always had a crucial role. Her job is to make sure Orion gets reborn every year. Just like any good woman her role is to get her man out of bed and support him as he goes off to do important work. :D

[eldargal]

Ariel has always had a crucial role. Her job is to make sure Orion gets reborn every year. Just like any good woman her role is to get her man out of bed and support him as he goes off to do important work. :D

That is pretty much the old background.:rolleyes: Thankfully she now seems to be the one actually ruling the Wood Elves while Orion runs around being all primal and silly.

[Kirsten]

That is pretty much the old background.:rolleyes: Thankfully she now seems to be the one actually ruling the Wood Elves while Orion runs around being all primal and silly.

typical man.

[eldargal]

Yep. You just know his 'nature trips' are really him slacking off at a chums house watching Blood Bowl and drinking. Meanwhile Ariel is busy ushering in a new era of co-operation and friendship between the Wood Elves and other races to help defend the Old World against Chaos.

[Kirsten]

now I am picturing orion as a stereotypical American football fan

[kyfer]

I think Eldargal mentioned WE getting the Dark Eldar treatment. Would love to see WE become an army that has so many themed lists and possible competitive armies. Would be great if they expanded on that evil Treeman character that Ariel put into isolation in the darkest parts of the woods, the one who still communicates with Drycha. An army that in turn has internal rivalries to the extent you'd feel like you're fielding desperate allies if you played them together always goes down well.

Definitely a Treeman character is needed, along with some suitably top-class multi-part plastic kits! GW could, if they really wanted to cut costs, make kits for certain HE/WE units (Great Eagle, Treeman if it is to become HE as well) in the same box, but I've been around the block long enough to know they won't do that, probably never will. Excited for May though, damn me being a fantasy player and that being my birth month- It's 2011 all over again... And then Hastings is saying Eldar in June, it's not fair!

[pgarfunkle]

That is pretty much the old background.:rolleyes: Thankfully she now seems to be the one actually ruling the Wood Elves while Orion runs around being all primal and silly.

That's how things work in my home lol

On a more serious note, I enjoyed Darius Hink's Orion book and would love to see the rules that reflected the feel of that book

[Bigred]

via Warseer's Earlybird:


Greetings fans of pointy eared princelings

We will have the followings :

Core :
Spearmen
Archers
Lothern Sea Guard
Silver Helms
Tiranoc Chariot
Shadow Warriors

Special :
Ellyrian Reavers
Chrace Chariot
White Lions
Dragon Princes (Horse)
Great Eagles
Swordmasters
Bolt Thrower

Rare :
Dragon Princes (monstruous)
Phoenix Guard
Phoenix
Saphery Chariot


Cheers

[eldargal]

No Maiden Guard mentioned, which would be a shame. Funnily enough my old rumour about a new Everqueen said no Maiden Guard (but that she was possibly riding something). It's a bit odd because Maiden Guard would make more sense in some ways than the Everqueen herself appearing on battlefields. Not complaining though.

[lattd]

That rumour goes on to say maiden guard are there just not where in the FOC

[eldargal]

Really? Didn't see that mentioned on early bird on Warseer.

[gcsmith]

Hmm, some interesting shift in the chart. At least some interesting Core. Might make me interested but after spending so much on Tau... and needing money to live on over the summer. I can't buy any more warhammer for a while.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

Not at all convinced Bolt Throwers are going Special. That's 'orrible! But never say never!

[Kirsten]

I could understand maiden guard being purchased along with the everqueen as a retinue and not being a choice in themselves. that organisation looks good though, liking it.

[Brakkart]

Hmm.

Not at all convinced Bolt Throwers are going Special. That's 'orrible! But never say never!

Well considering the Saphery Chariot is a Rare choice and that's a flying Bolt Thrower armed Chariot then it makes a certain amount of sense that the regular non-flying Bolt Thrower is something other than Rare, so I can definately see it being a Special choice now. Which yeah is pretty nasty!

[eldargal]

Worth mentioning that Early Bird has no track record whatsoever and everything specific he has said has been echoing Hastings or others up until these rumours. So it is by no means certain. I personally doubt GW would give the chariot such a low-key sounding name. I mean sure there is a Tiranoc chariot but to just get a 'Saphery chariot' when its pulled by bloody eagles doesn't seem like GWs M.O.

[Learn2Eel]

I was reading a Tactics thread for High Elves and I must say that so many people think that having Silver Helms as Core would make for a very strong core choice. I'm no expert, but I thought heavy cavalry weren't that good in 8th? It would be cool though; if an all-in heavy cavalry force was competitive, I would be all over it. Silver Helms as Core, Dragon Princes as special, Princes/Nobles/BSB/Mages all mounted on barded or regular elven steeds and so on would be glorious.

[magickbk]

I could understand maiden guard being purchased along with the everqueen as a retinue and not being a choice in themselves. that organisation looks good though, liking it.

This is how they used to be. For the points cost, you got Alarielle and 10 Maiden Guard, and you could then take additional models and options to expand the unit. That was back in 5th Edition, I think, and then there were some rules in either White Dwarf or one of the old Fanatic mags, either Fanatic or Citadel Journal that updated for 6th. Maybe it was the War of the Beard?


I was reading a Tactics thread for High Elves and I must say that so many people think that having Silver Helms as Core would make for a very strong core choice. I'm no expert, but I thought heavy cavalry weren't that good in 8th? It would be cool though; if an all-in heavy cavalry force was competitive, I would be all over it. Silver Helms as Core, Dragon Princes as special, Princes/Nobles/BSB/Mages all mounted on barded or regular elven steeds and so on would be glorious.

Silver Helms were Core in the previous army book, and I thought it worked really well, if only to allow more flexible army builds. Not saying it is the best way to make the army, just gives more options.

[Chronowraith]

That would make sense. In the only other book Maidenguard have appeared in (tabletop rules-wise) they were only taken *IF* you selected the Everqueen. You couldn't take them without taking her which is one reason why hardly anyone used either.

That being said, I still have my Everqueen model :-)

[Brakkart]

That would make sense. In the only other book Maidenguard have appeared in (tabletop rules-wise) they were only taken *IF* you selected the Everqueen. You couldn't take them without taking her which is one reason why hardly anyone used either.

That being said, I still have my Everqueen model :-)

Which makes sense as they are her bodyguards. True they do also serve as messengers and such, but that's 1 or 2 of them, they only travel en masse when accompanying the Everqueen.

I still have mine too, lovely model. Got a bunch of the old Maiden Guards too but they languish in the unpainted storage boxes at the present time. I think I have 3 of the Standard Bearer.

I hope the rumours are right and that they are back in this new book. I always felt it was wrong that they were left out of the previous edition as it meant that Avelorn was the only High Elf kingdom not represented in the book in some way (I don't think any of the others were missing anyway).

[eldargal]

I don't thnk WFB restricts units like that anymore though. Saw this on Faeit, someone sent him an identical list with the following added which I assume is what was referenced earlier:

New Models:
- Saphery Chariot (flying chariot)
- Drake Riders (dragon princes)
- Shadow Warriors
- Phoenix
- Guard of Avelorn (maiden guard or similar, not confirmed yet maybe extra option if you take Alarielle as well as 5th edition book)

[spaceman91]

The silly video is up on GW. April 27th for the preorders.

[Kirsten]

surprisingly subtle for GW, if we hadn't had all the leaks that would be far harder to guess than any video they have ever done before

[spaceman91]

Going by the video GW are trying to make it seem that the elves are like the phoenix. Looks like the are in resurgence

[Chronowraith]

Given the picture leaks floating around the internet I think it's safe to confirm that Alarielle and the Maidenguard are back in the book. Here's hoping that they are adequately costed and have decent rules. In the past book the maidenguard were beasts but Alarielle was almost a drawback if I remember correctly (she had a pretty crappy statline from what I remember due to her pacifist ways).

So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If nothing else I'll buy the Everqueen model just for the display shelf.

[magickbk]

Given the picture leaks floating around the internet I think it's safe to confirm that Alarielle and the Maidenguard are back in the book. Here's hoping that they are adequately costed and have decent rules. In the past book the maidenguard were beasts but Alarielle was almost a drawback if I remember correctly (she had a pretty crappy statline from what I remember due to her pacifist ways).

So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If nothing else I'll buy the Everqueen model just for the display shelf.

Alarielle was all magic items and abilities. If I remember correctly, she always struck first, and if she hit, the opponent didn't fight that phase. Then she made the maiden guard unbreakable, +1 to hit, and magical attacks.

[Jared van Kell]

Suffice to say that she is quite likely a Level 4 spellcaster with the Lore of Life and/or quite possibly the Lore of Light as well. Either way her main role is to buff the rest of the army whilst Teclis remains the magical powerhouse with Loremaster (High Magic).

JvK :cool:

[Learn2Eel]

Enjoy....


via Hero's Gaming Blog (http://lkhero.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/huge-high-elves-info-dump.html)

Everyone has ASF, Martial Prowess and Valour of Ages
Mages get +1 to cast High Magic now instead of +1 dispel, called Lileath's Blessing
Dragon stats are..
Sun Dragon - 5s, WS5, T5 S5, W5
Moon Dragon - 6s, 5 attacks Ld.8
Star Dragon, WS7, S7, T7, 7 wounds, I2, 6A, Ld.9
Everyone has 3+ AS, Terror

Flamespyre Phoenix = 225
WS5 S5 T5 W5 I4 A3 Ld.8
Monster
Special Rules:
Attuned to Magic - 5+ ward and close combat attacks are magical. in add, when rolling to determine the strength of the winds of magic, compare the highest d6 rolled with the table below and determine the effect.
1 = ward is 6+ instead
2 = phoenix has -1 s
3 = phoenix has +1I
4 = has +1A
5= +1S
6=ward 4+
Fireborn - 2+ ward vs. wounds caused by flaming attacks
Flaming Attacks
Fly
Large Target
Phoenix Reborn - as soon as he loves his last wound, remove the model and place a phoenix reborn counter to mark the centre of the death spot. at the end of the turn roll a d6 for each phoenix reborn counter and consult the table. 1-2 dead forever, 3-5 centre a large round template over the center, all models friendly and foe suffers s4 flaming, the counter remains in play, roll at the end of next turn, yours or oppos. Rise from the ashes on 6+, place him anywhere within 6" of the center, at least 1" away and remove marker. He is back with d3+2 wounds. If you have a rider, he dies with the phoenix, or he returns with the phoenix. If the phoenix died with a rider on him, add +1 to you roll.
Terror
Wake of Fire - if he moves over one or more uneganged enemy units, choose one of those units - that unit suffers d6 s4 hits plus d3 per rank after the first. flaming,

Frostheart Phoenix = 240
WS6 S6 T6 5W I3 4A Ld. 9
Attuned to magic
blizzard aura - any enemy UNIT in base contact with him has ASL and -1S
natural armor 5+

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower = 70 points
2 Sea Guard crew
Rare, can take up to 4

Great Eagles 1+ = 50ppm
Entire unit can get Swiftsense = ASF for 10ppm
Shredding Talons for 5ppm = AP

Tyrion = 410
WS9 BS7 S4 T3 4W I10 4A Ld.10
Sunfang = same +3S flaming, S4 breath once a game, magical
Dragon Armor of Aenarion - 1+ AS, 4+ ward and Fireborn 2+ ward vs. fire
Heart of Averlorn - MR2, if he dies, roll d6, on a 2+ he negates the wound and the heart is destroyed
Defender of Ulthuan - 18" presence

Teclis = 450
T2 3W Ld.10
Sword of Teclis - wound on 2+ no AS
Moonstaff of Lileath - one use only - you can either choose to add a bonus power die to each casting attempt, of if teclis suffers a miscast, the miscast is ignored. In either case, Teclis' S and T are both reduced to 1 for the remainder of the game ROFL
Scroll of hoeth - one use only - same
Warcrown of Saphery - Increases his Wizard level by one, so he's a Lv.5 wizard technically
Teclis does not generate spells, he either knows all of the spells from High Magic or can choose one spell from each of the 8 lores (yes, chooses)
Lileath's Blessing - +1 to cast from all lore of high magic

Magic spells:
Apotehosis
5+ augment 18"
immediately regains 1 wound, 10+ for d3 wounds. Regardless of how many wounds gained, you also gain Fear.

Arcane Unforging
13+, direct damage with 24" single enemy model. Suffers a wound on a dice grear than or equal to unmodified armor save. No AS allowed. Reveal to the caster all magic items, if you have more than one, randomly select one and its destroyed on 2+.

Drain Magic (sig)
cast on 7+
friend or foe within 18"
friendly augment, hex on enemy
all RIP spells affecting the unit are immediately dispelled, and affects of all other spells on the target unit immediately come to an end. Can be all units within 18" for 14+.

Fiery Convocation
Cast on 19+
RIP
Direct damage 24". every unit takes S4 flaming, at the end of every subsequent magic phase, every model suffers S4 flaming.

Hand of Glory 5+
augment 18"
Target's WS, BS, I or M is +d3. You can choose all for 10+.

Shield of Saphery (lore attribute)
Each time a spell is succesfully cast, the caster and his unit immediately gain +1 to their ward save to max of 3. If you don't have one, 6+. Stacks.

Soul Quench (sig)
cast on 8+
magical missile, 18", 2d6 s4 hits, or 4d6 s4 hits, 16+

Tempest 12+
direct damage. large round template within 30" of wiz, scatters d6. All models hit suffer s3 hits (models flying is s4). If a model suffers any unsaved wounds, it suffers -1 to all hit both shooting and cc. Those that do not use BS needs a 4+ to fire.

Walk between worlds
cast on 8+
augment, 24+
Gain Ethereal and can immediately move to 10" as if it were remaining moves sub-phase.
Can make it go 20" + Ethereal on a 16"

Purchaseable magic items

Blade of leaping gold - 70 points

Star Lance - 30 points, +3S, no AS

Reaver Bow - 20 points
+1S, volley Multiple shots 3

Armor of Caledor for 50 points

Shadow Armor - 25 points, 5+ AS, Scouts, Strider

Shield of the Mermrym - 15pts, shield, unless he's using a weapon that uses 2 hands, he has parry 4+, can be used with a magic weapon

golden crown of atrazar - 10 points, talisman

Moranion's wayshard - enchanted, 50 points. Models on foot only. Has ambushers special rule. He can give archers or Spearmen up to 30 units in size the same immediately before deployment. He has to join that unit if he does.

Kharine's Ring of Fury - 25 points

Gem of Sunfire - 20 points

Cloak of Beards - 10 points

Book of Hoeth - 55 points

Banner of World Dragon - 50 points - SO ****ING GOOD WOW

Random Magic Items and other special rules:

Warrior mage - First spell generated by dragon mage is always flaming sword.

Windrider - Sea Helm on Lothern Skycutter has 4+ ward against shooting attacks. Can also re-roll dangerous terrain.

Witness to Destiny - 4+ ward (assuming this is anointed)

touch of the everqueen - her close combat attacks vs. forces of destruction have HKB.

The shieldstone of Isha - Talisman, the shieldstone of isha grants Alarielle and her unit a 5+ ward vs. any non-magical attacks.

Stave of Averlorn - one use only, arcane. It allows Alerielle to immediately attempt to cast a spell she already cast that phase, even if failed or miscast.

Stone of midnight - Alith 4+ ward, enemies suffer -1 to hit when shooting against Alith or his unit.

Swooping Strike - a model upgraded has Devastating Charge and +1S on the turn he charges.

Talisman of Hoeth - Eltharion has MR1, counts as a Lv.2 Wiz, who uses spells from any of the 8 lores.

Mark of Asuryan - If Caradryan dies, d3 wounds no AS.

The moonbow - 36" S7 D3 wounds quick to fire, no AS. dark Elves suffer -1 ld.

Naval Disipline - If a unit containing at least one sea helm is successfully charged during the movement phase, it can attempt to change formation immediately after your opponent has moved all of his charging units. To do so, the unit must take a Ld. test. If passed, immediately combat reform. A unit cannot use this if made a Flee! or stand and shoot (doh!).

Pelt of Charandis - Korhil counts his AS as one higher vs. CC, 2 points higher vs. non-magic shooting. Poison does not auto wound, wound as normal.

Phoenix Blade - +1S, flaming, d3 wounds, Caradryan's.

Quicksilver Shot - Models shooting attacks have quick to fire as do all sisters of averlorn and high sisters in the same unit.

Reckless - Dragon mage +2 to cast from lore of fire (cumulative with other bonuses), never receive bonuses to dispel.

Repeater Bolt Thrower - same, normal Bolt thrower or 6 shots, S4 AP.

Shadow Crown - Alith and his unit have Swiftstride.

Helm of Yvresse - +1 to Eltharion's AS and gives him and his mount 5+ ward.
Horn of Isha. enchanted. one use, can be used at the start of one of your movement phases. For the remainder of the turn, all models in the unit receive +1 to hit on all shooting and close combat attacks.

Ilthilmar Barding - No movement penalty barding

Khaine's Ring of Fury - BL3, enchanted, Soul Quench from Lore of High Magic. 18" 2d6 S4 hits

Lileath's blessing - Models with this special rule gain +1 to cast when using High Magic

Lion Cloak - models wearing a lion cloak adds +2 AS against non-magical shooting attacks.

Gem of Sunfire - Enchanted. One use only. All bearer's spells, shooting attacks, close combat (and his mounts) have +1 to wound, provided they also have the flaming attacks special rule.
Golden Crown of Atrazar - Talisman, one use. 2+ ward against first wounding hit by wearer.

Armor of Caledor 2+, 6+ Ward, Fireborn special rule - 2+ ward vs. flaming
Banner of Averlorn - Spells from Lore of Light and Life by a friendly unit containing the banner are +4 to cast. If Alarielle is slain, this is immediately lost.
Banner of World Dragon - 2+ ward vs. all wounds caused by spells, magic weapons, and magical attacks. Furthermore, all dragons within 12" of the World Dragon have Stubborn.
Blade of Leaping Gold - +3 attacks, any roll to wound of 6 ignores AS.
Book of Hoeth - Allows the user to re-roll a single dice from each of his casting or dispel attempts, results of 6 cannot be re-rolled.
Cloak of Beards - Enchanted. Cause Fear. Against Dwarfs, cause Terror. Dwarfs gain hatred vs. you. At the start of each cc phase, roll d6 for each magic item carried by each model from warhammer dwarfs in base contact with wearer. On a 4+ the magic item is destroyed and cannot be used..etc.

Deflect shots - 6+ ward against non-magical shooting attacks
Dragon Armor - 5+ armor, 6+ ward and Fireborn Special rule.

Dragon Fire - A dragon's breath weapon is S4, flaming

Eagle Eye Bolt Thrower
24" S5 Multiple Wounds D3, no AS

Fangsword of Iltharion - +2S, no AS caused by Fangsword

Boon of Isha - All models in the Everqueen's unit are magical. Her unit is Immune to Fear/Terror.

Blessings of Ausryan - all models that contain an anointed of Asuryan havea 6+ ward save and is ItP.
Blood Oath - Ethlarion gains +1 to hit vs. Grom.

Chaos Bane - At the start of each of Allerille's magic phase, before rolling for winds, every unit with the demonic special rule within 12" of her suffers d6 s4 distriubuted like shooting. However, she suffers -d3 penalty to her casting attempts if there is one of more models with demon within 12" of her.

Chayal - +2S, Paired Weapon, Killing Blow

Bow of Averlorn - 24" S4 Arrows of Isha, Flaming, Volley Fire
Arrows of Isha - magical. -1 AS against wounds caused to forces of destruction

Dunno if it is ok to have points costs or not, I can edit them out if it isn't or use the popular "skaven slaves" conversion rate...
And yes, before you ask, these are confirmed by the iBooks previews of the High Elf army book. GW got a bit sloppy with what they put up for the preview...that or they did it intentionally because they knew how much excitement it would generate for what is looking like a truly top-tier army book.

[Bigred]

GW got a bit sloppy with what they put up for the preview...that or they did it intentionally because they knew how much excitement it would generate for what is looking like a truly top-tier army book.

Or they are showing a little leg because they are concerned about sales...

[Kirsten]

such teases...
will be interesting to see if they fly off the shelves (pun intended) I have no idea of the breakdown of fantasy sales, but I would think high elves would be pretty popular? they are a solid fantasy trope.

[eldargal]

High Elves traditionally are one of the more popular WFB armies from what I've heard.

[Albavar]

The FOC stuff doesn't line up with the way the models are grouped on the GW site. Not sure if that means anything.
I'm looking forward to playing them again. I stopped when the last Army Book came out as everyone was screaming that I was playing for the "auto-win" button. I had just moved to the area so nobody really knew I had been playing them since 4th...
Good stuff. Off to check the iBooks pre-view myself...

[Mr Mystery]

Or they are showing a little leg because they are concerned about sales...

Nah. Book is absolutely nothing special, looking at those rumours. They remain Elves with the classic Elven weakness of not being able to kick a solid kicking.

They have simply received the Ogre treatment. It looks like they've been massively and overly buffed, when really they've just received the attention needed to even things out. And remember folks...no matter how nippy or speedy the Elf, they're very rarely much harder to kill than a Common or Garden Gobbo when it comes to twisting their girly little heads off!

[Kirsten]

that was the issue they had in 6th, every other race got cheaper, high elves lost all their special abilities and still stayed the same price.

[Learn2Eel]

Nah. Book is absolutely nothing special, looking at those rumours. They remain Elves with the classic Elven weakness of not being able to kick a solid kicking.

They have simply received the Ogre treatment. It looks like they've been massively and overly buffed, when really they've just received the attention needed to even things out. And remember folks...no matter how nippy or speedy the Elf, they're very rarely much harder to kill than a Common or Garden Gobbo when it comes to twisting their girly little heads off!

Our heavy Infantry are still top tier, and it looks like we may have some of the best heavy cavalry in the game now - we already had very good heavy cavalry, but fighting in three ranks makes them so much better. Most of our choices are cheaper and more effective. Our monster range is so much better; dragons are stronger than ever, and the phoenixes - particularly the Frost one - are amongst the most useful monsters you could find in any army book. Most options in the book weren't really worthwhile before, now it very much seems like they are. They will likely end up being one of the top army books released so far in this edition.

By the way, haven't you noticed the Banner of the World Dragon? It is considered by most to be perhaps the most over-powered magic item released in this edition....and with good reason.
Also, if Phoenix Guard are unbreakable and aren't 18+ points per model.....

[eldargal]

The banner isn't game breaking though (unless you play Daemons) and someone said we don't even know who can take it yet, if that is true for all we know it may be limited to Dragon Princes or something.

[Learn2Eel]

It isn't, Swordmasters were carrying it in the White Dwarf battle report. It's safe to assume any of our Special units that can take a banner will be able to take this - we had a 50 point magic banner limit in the previous army book, and it looks like that hasn't changed.
It won't be game breaking against most armies, but it will against more than just Daemons depending on the build a player goes with. "Scream" spam Vampire lists, or Vampire lists featuring a blender lord will be severely crippled by the BotWD, much like war machine-toting Dwarves or even common Wood Elves builds. A lot of other armies often feature competitive builds focusing on units with magical attacks - Skullcrushers, Chaos Knights and the like come to mind - and that it provides miscast protection is amazing. For 50 points, it is unreal.

[Mr Mystery]

Our heavy Infantry are still top tier, and it looks like we may have some of the best heavy cavalry in the game now - we already had very good heavy cavalry, but fighting in three ranks makes them so much better. Most of our choices are cheaper and more effective. Our monster range is so much better; dragons are stronger than ever, and the phoenixes - particularly the Frost one - are amongst the most useful monsters you could find in any army book. Most options in the book weren't really worthwhile before, now it very much seems like they are. They will likely end up being one of the top army books released so far in this edition.

By the way, haven't you noticed the Banner of the World Dragon? It is considered by most to be perhaps the most over-powered magic item released in this edition....and with good reason.
Also, if Phoenix Guard are unbreakable and aren't 18+ points per model.....

Top Tier Chariot Fodder, sure. Elves do indeed pack a wallop, but lordy me they appear to be retaining their weaknesses. Hit like a tonne of bricks, with all the resilience of.......mashed potato..... Elveses are also quite expensive for their T rating. I mean, Swordmasters? Not much harder to drop than a Gobbo with light armour and shield, but many times the points. Drop a rock or similar on them, and you get a high VP yield when the unit breaks.

And that appears to remain the main issue for Elves. It's not dishing out the hurt, which they do quite respectably, but ensuring they dish out enough to mitigate the reprisals. 8th Ed really, really hurt Elves of all stripes, simply because there is no more I denial. Whilst you can still happily win most early combats, late game attrition is a real sod to overcome, and a single botched, or arugably worse, unexpectedly tied, combat can really ruin a Pixie players day :)

And for what it's worth, I'm really not seeing any 'tiers' in the 8th Ed army book line up. Armies have their strengths, the main rules provide the weaknesses!

Of course, obvious conjecture is obvious until I have the book in my hands :)

[eldargal]

Well if elves didn't have their weaknesses they would dominate the game.:p Apart from the aforementioned banner which does seem to be ridiculous (but not army book breaking) the book seems to be well balanced in and out. Won't know for certain 'til we read it and play some games.

[Chronowraith]

It isn't, Swordmasters were carrying it in the White Dwarf battle report. It's safe to assume any of our Special units that can take a banner will be able to take this - we had a 50 point magic banner limit in the previous army book, and it looks like that hasn't changed.
It won't be game breaking against most armies, but it will against more than just Daemons depending on the build a player goes with. "Scream" spam Vampire lists, or Vampire lists featuring a blender lord will be severely crippled by the BotWD, much like war machine-toting Dwarves or even common Wood Elves builds. A lot of other armies often feature competitive builds focusing on units with magical attacks - Skullcrushers, Chaos Knights and the like come to mind - and that it provides miscast protection is amazing. For 50 points, it is unreal.

Let's wait and see how the text on the magic item entry is worded before we freak out and call it super overpowered. Depending on how that is worded certain powerful spells may still affect the unit as there are plenty of spells don't cause wounds or hits but remove models (Curse of the Horned Rat) or that specifically state they ignore ward saves (Dwellers).

Daemons are the only real loser. EVERY other army book has non-magic ways of dealing damage that are commonly used such as cannons, mortars, high damage output units (Khorne Warriors, Plague Monks, Bretonnian Knights, etc) several unit-crushing monsters (War Sphinx, Stonehorn, etc). If they lack that, then they have convenient methods to tie the banner-wielding unit up in combat for forever (Zombies, Skavenslaves, etc).

From the rumors I've seen, the HE book looks to be pretty balanced and no more or less powerful than Ogres, WoC, or O&G.

For phoenix guard, they are the real mystery. I concur that they could be incredibly good if they are unbreakable but if they do in fact move to rare, they will be competing for other necessary rare slots like eagles, phoenix, bolt throwers, etc. Even unbreakable though, you are talking about a T3 5+ 4++ unit. So while it won't run, it still isn't the most durable.

[Learn2Eel]

Top Tier Chariot Fodder, sure. Elves do indeed pack a wallop, but lordy me they appear to be retaining their weaknesses. Hit like a tonne of bricks, with all the resilience of.......mashed potato..... Elveses are also quite expensive for their T rating. I mean, Swordmasters? Not much harder to drop than a Gobbo with light armour and shield, but many times the points. Drop a rock or similar on them, and you get a high VP yield when the unit breaks.

And that appears to remain the main issue for Elves. It's not dishing out the hurt, which they do quite respectably, but ensuring they dish out enough to mitigate the reprisals. 8th Ed really, really hurt Elves of all stripes, simply because there is no more I denial. Whilst you can still happily win most early combats, late game attrition is a real sod to overcome, and a single botched, or arugably worse, unexpectedly tied, combat can really ruin a Pixie players day :)

And for what it's worth, I'm really not seeing any 'tiers' in the 8th Ed army book line up. Armies have their strengths, the main rules provide the weaknesses!

Of course, obvious conjecture is obvious until I have the book in my hands :)

Oh I know :D The army as a whole is getting cheaper, and they have more ways to deal with chariots/war machines - or, stuff they struggled with - than ever before, all quite effectively. I wasn't saying they would be over-powered, nor was I implying they were without weaknesses. But as a whole, they are definitely a much stronger army book than they were, given most of the choices weren't worthwhile before. We are already seeing a lot of list variations pop up that look to be quite competitive, which is far more than could be said of a number of books. In that sense, I am happy. Also, will you have enough chariots to deny the High Elves their +4 ward saves across multiple units provided by their High Mages? ;) Food for thought, in the last army book chariots would just stroll through them - except Phoenix Guard - but they have a lot more defences against such things, so that helps.

As far as tiers go, it is generally accepted that - of the hardbacks - Ogres and Warriors of Chaos are the top dogs so far, with Tomb Kings rocking in the depths. Now, the gaps between the books aren't significant, but the disparity is large enough that they can be appropriately categorised in such a way. The general consensus - when ignoring the BotWD discussion - is that High Elves will probably place solidly next to Ogres and Warrios of Chaos, and what I've seen seems to confirm this. Some of the stuff the army can do is ludicrous - ward saves everywhere, the Frost Phoenix, etc - and they are incredibly flexible. Over-powered, though? No, and I'm not implying that for one second. They do die quicker than a lot of other forces, and they are generally more expensive per model (although their three heavy Infantry units continue to buck this trend). I'm just happy we have an army book where I can field a themed list and not feel bad about it because it doesn't feature Phoenix Guard, White Lions, Teclis or an Archmage with the Book of Hoeth.


Let's wait and see how the text on the magic item entry is worded before we freak out and call it super overpowered. Depending on how that is worded certain powerful spells may still affect the unit as there are plenty of spells don't cause wounds or hits but remove models (Curse of the Horned Rat) or that specifically state they ignore ward saves (Dwellers).

Daemons are the only real loser. EVERY other army book has non-magic ways of dealing damage that are commonly used such as cannons, mortars, high damage output units (Khorne Warriors, Plague Monks, Bretonnian Knights, etc) several unit-crushing monsters (War Sphinx, Stonehorn, etc). If they lack that, then they have convenient methods to tie the banner-wielding unit up in combat for forever (Zombies, Skavenslaves, etc).

From the rumors I've seen, the HE book looks to be pretty balanced and no more or less powerful than Ogres, WoC, or O&G.

For phoenix guard, they are the real mystery. I concur that they could be incredibly good if they are unbreakable but if they do in fact move to rare, they will be competing for other necessary rare slots like eagles, phoenix, bolt throwers, etc. Even unbreakable though, you are talking about a T3 5+ 4++ unit. So while it won't run, it still isn't the most durable.

We do know the exact wording. The only way around the BotWD is stuff that doesn't allow saves or mundane attacks. Granted, all but two armies have predominantly mundane attacks - though not all army books have access to save-ignoring spells that would seriously worry Elves - but the sheer value of the banner can't be denied. It nullifies almost any combat character worth their salt, as well as a large number of spell-based attacks and units that carry magic items. Skaven and Dwarven shooting will mostly be laughed off by such a unit. The problem is also that the unit wielding the banner won't be bad in combat - even with the loss of Speed of Asuryan, White Lions and Sword Masters are still premier elite Infantry and dish out the hurt better than almost any other unit of their kind for their points. That, and High Elves have multiple ways of dealing with monsters and ranked units - Bolt Throwers, High Magic, Flamespyre Phoenixes, etc - so they can deal with pretty much any threat. The problem I - and everyone else - has with such a unit is that they aren't that expensive, meaning the High Elf player should be able to deal with those legitimate threats to the BotWD unit. 30 White Lions with this banner will run well under 500 points, and with Martial Prowess, they are a very literal blender in combat and tough against shooting to boot - +3 armour save against shooting. No matter how much people may try to counter the BotWD, it is still far too good for its points. Given how exceptional Alarielle is (she's phenomenal and very cheap for what she does), combining her with such a unit with the BotWD is where stuff really gets ridiculous. +5 ward save against non-magical stuff, +2 ward save against magical stuff. And she is a Level 3-4 and thus trying to cast Dweller's Below on her unit is no mean feat - especially if she gives them a Toughness boost from the Lore of Life. But eh, I wouldn't do it myself anyway. Just relating why people are up in arms about it.

It's been confirmed; they aren't Unbreakable, and they aren't Rare. Not the most durable? I'll have to disagree there. For 15 points a model, they have +5 armour and +4 ward, are also S4, have ASF, cause Fear and fight in three or more ranks. If they weren't so darn cheap I would agree with you that they aren't all that spiffy, but the sheer reality is that they are, they hit harder than a lot of other elite Infantry units, and they are fantastic at reducing the amount of attacks coming back at them. In a seven-wide formation with three ranks and a champion, that is a unit that dishes out 22 WS5 S4 I6 ASF attacks that re-roll to hit against most targets, and the enemy also has to pass a Fear test. They are one of the best bunkers in the game for that very reason; they were a top unit in the old army book (and considered one of the best you could find anywhere) and they have only gotten better. And that is just when taken on their own merits; from what we can tell, combo-charges and unit buffing characters will be key to making the most out of High Elves, which is great even considering that the units are pretty strong by themselves. Take White Lions or Sword Masters for example; losing their re-rolls and striking first may suck - though Martial Prowess mitigates that - but when they combine with a Frost Phoenix, carnage shall be had.

Quite a few people are getting their hands on the army book now. Griffons are much cheaper, and can take upgrades such as ASF and Devastating Charge. Dragons have been normalised with those in the Storm of Magic book in both abilities and price. Princes, Nobles and Mages are slightly cheaper, whereas the Archmage got a significant price drop. Dragon Armour is considerably more expensive than it used to be for a Prince, but only a slight increase for Nobles. Nobles can now ride Griffons! Alarielle is...incredible, just incredible. Going off what we have seen before, she also restores a single wound to any friendly character within 12" at the start of each of your movement phases, and she can choose how many spells she takes from each of her three available Lores; so, assuming she is a Level four, she can put two into High Magic, one into Life Magic, and one into Light Magic, though she still has to roll to see which spell she gets. The chariots are cheaper - Tiranocs can now be taken in units. Dragon Princes are slightly cheaper, and for some strange reason, can take up to a 75 point banner. Shadow Warriors are quite a bit cheaper. Reavers, Spearmen and Silver Helms haven't changed much. From what I have seen, in games of 2000 points or lower, the Anointed of Asuryan looks like the best combat Lord option, particularly when mounted on a Frost Phoenix. Sea Helms are quite cheap. The Loremaster is the most expensive generic character before upgrades.

EDIT: Oh dear.....Alarielle is indeed a Level 4, and 175 SS. Could they have made more of an effort to make her a near auto-include? I don't think so....she isn't 7th Ed Teclis but she is darn close without being cheesy.

[Mr Mystery]

Thing is, High Mages are stupidly easy to beat up :) Even my favourite example, the humble Common or Garden Gobbo can have a decent stab (preferably in the back) at nobbling one!

It's also really dependant on a decent winds of magic roll, and being able to cast the spells without having them dispelled or your Mage nuked (I love the feedback scroll me!) But it does indeed suit Elves down to the ground. Quite looking forward to Barger Fivebellies first outing against the girly Elves now!

Further thought strikes..... High Elves are now very much a dominance army. All their tasty abilities really don't add up to that much if your opponent controls the board. Strong but fragile, manouevrable but few units, definitely an army that needs to seize and exploit the initiative. For instance, against my beloved Ogres, you may struggle more than against say, Warriors of Chaos, simply because it takes you three wounds to drop me and block my return attacks (you really do get used to striking last when you're I2). You can still win combats, sure, but perhaps not by the comfortable margins to see me off. If you give me half a chance to make use of my own speed, and force you into unfavourable combats, all bets are off for the Pixies.

And that in itself is a very definite tactical and strategic demand of the army, and it's biggest drawback. Your troops are indeed utterly awesome for what you pay for, but used sloppily and you're mashed!

[Spikey McTorture]

These rules make me mad! :( I'm just going to have more trouble with my Beastmen against my friend's already very powerful HE army. If that part about HE having a bonus against "bad" armies is true, i will rage. Well, I'd better prepare my anus. HE didn't need this update, Wood elves or Beastmen did. IMO these new rules make HE pretty OP now.

[magickbk]

These rules make me mad! :( I'm just going to have more trouble with my Beastmen against my friend's already very powerful HE army. If that part about HE having a bonus against "bad" armies is true, i will rage. Well, I'd better prepare my anus. HE didn't need this update, Wood elves or Beastmen did. IMO these new rules make HE pretty OP now.

I think the main issue isn't that the HE book appears OP, rather that Beastmen and Wood Elves lag behind given the 8th edition rules set and the composition of the armies. Early opinion seems to point to the HE as fitting in with the other 8th books, but any army with a significant number of their units being skirmishers and/or fast cavalry is in trouble. I'd venture to guess that you probably go heavy on Minotaurs to compensate, but that places you at a disadvantage when it comes to number of units and maneuverability.

[Mr Mystery]

The banner isn't game breaking though (unless you play Daemons) and someone said we don't even know who can take it yet, if that is true for all we know it may be limited to Dragon Princes or something.

I'm thinking its very, very pokey for a mere 50 points. I suspect of may be a bound spell of some kind, or otherwise an affect that can be 'switched off'.

[Spikey McTorture]

I think the main issue isn't that the HE book appears OP, rather that Beastmen and Wood Elves lag behind given the 8th edition rules set and the composition of the armies. Early opinion seems to point to the HE as fitting in with the other 8th books, but any army with a significant number of their units being skirmishers and/or fast cavalry is in trouble. I'd venture to guess that you probably go heavy on Minotaurs to compensate, but that places you at a disadvantage when it comes to number of units and maneuverability.

Hoards of gors and bestigors actually, with some chariots. I'm not a fan of that pheonix with a bolt thrower, it seems too able to get into the perfect position to take out swathes of infantry in a single shot. Still, I will be laughing when he uses it on my Skaven. You killed 20 rats? Now how about the other 280? Cheaper units seem unneeded, GW is just doing this so people buy more infantry.

[Mr Mystery]

Flappy bolt thrower stars at a meagre S5, so not a colossal threat.

[Chronowraith]

Interestingly enough... Dragon Mage + Shadow Armor = Scouting Dragon. At least I haven't found anything that doesn't let this work in the BRB or the HE Book.

[Learn2Eel]

Interestingly enough... Dragon Mage + Shadow Armor = Scouting Dragon. At least I haven't found anything that doesn't let this work in the BRB or the HE Book.

Shadow Armour specifies it is only for a model on foot, unfortunately.

[Chronowraith]

Yeah, I finally got back home with my book and noticed that. I was going off of internet rumors (Free comic day made going to the store earlier a disaster).

[Learn2Eel]

Hah, sounds like what happened at my store on the High Elves release day. My GW hobby centre is downstairs from a comic book shop, and there was an extensive line outside waiting for it to open up. From what I could tell, it was also a free comic book day.

[Wildeybeast]

It was free comic book day I the UK as well, must be a global thing. My comic store was jammed with hordes of smelly children, pawing at the comics with their grubby fingers and not buying anything. It was horrible.

[Learn2Eel]

It was free comic book day I the UK as well, must be a global thing. My comic store was jammed with hordes of smelly children, pawing at the comics with their grubby fingers and not buying anything. It was horrible.

:( Well if it gives you hope for a better future, no such individuals were to be found at my local comic shop :D

[Wildeybeast]

Lucky you. I wouldn't have minded if they were buying stuff and helping keep my local store open (especially as it's only been going a few months), but they were just grabbing the free stuff.

[Kirsten]

got some plastic bolt throwers today, only had the metal ones before this I am amazed at the size of them.

[magickbk]

got some plastic bolt throwers today, only had the metal ones before this I am amazed at the size of them.

How do they compare? I have 4 of the metal ones, and 2 of the older metal ones with 2 racks of arrows, but never had the chance to see them next to the plastic ones.

[Build]

*brief disclaimer*

The opinion stated below is mine and not meant to annoy, aggravate, irritate, and any other words ending in "ate". It is just made from my own beliefs and ideas as to what I look for in models.


So I saw the new maiden guard, as well as the special characters that come with them, am I the only one who doesn't like them? I'm hoping it's just the highlights, but once again it looks like the faces have been sculpted with far too defined jaw lines and pronounced cheek bones.

Does anyone have them yet and can they clarify this?

Thanks.

[Kirsten]

How do they compare? I have 4 of the metal ones, and 2 of the older metal ones with 2 racks of arrows, but never had the chance to see them next to the plastic ones.

the plastic ones are easily twice as big, they fill a 60mm round base


*brief disclaimer*

The opinion stated below is mine and not meant to annoy, aggravate, irritate, and any other words ending in "ate". It is just made from my own beliefs and ideas as to what I look for in models.


So I saw the new maiden guard, as well as the special characters that come with them, am I the only one who doesn't like them? I'm hoping it's just the highlights, but once again it looks like the faces have been sculpted with far too defined jaw lines and pronounced cheek bones.

Does anyone have them yet and can they clarify this?

Thanks.

I don't think so personally

[eldargal]

It's the paintjob, they over emphasize the cheekbones particularly on female sculpts.

[Build]

Hmmm,

Had a look at some of the ones on CMON, a couple look good (just boarder line if I'm being honest).

But it does look like the features are far too exaggerated, at least for my tastes and the sources I've been using. As I said though, personal preference comes into it more than anything else does, while I may not be a fan, if anyone has them and likes them, then kudos to you, I hope you have fun painting them and they don't die on turn one of your games. ;)

[Kirsten]

I have thirty, they are fantastic

[Build]

I have thirty, they are fantastic

Awesome. :)

Seeing as the general consensus both here and elsewhere seems be very positive I think I will forgo sculpting one, though Ariel might still make my list.

[Kirsten]

I am less keen on Alarielle, bit more drag queen than everqueen in my opinion, needs a headswap. but I think a lot of that is down to GW painters and their love of eye shadow and lipstick...