Death From the Skies - Flyer Supplement

[Bigred]

The basics:


Death From the Skies
Ships Saturday 16th February (no advanced order)
- 72p full colour, softback, Warhammer 40,000 Compendium
- Contains flyers painted by the ‘Eavy Metal team
- Updated 6th Edition rules for the following Flyers:

- Stormraven (that can now be used in Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars)
- Stormtalon Gunship
- Valkyrie and Vendetta
- Ork Dakka Jet, Burna Bommer and Blitza Bommer
- Necron Night Scythe and Doom Scythe
- Dark Eldar Razorwing and Void Raven

- New scenarios
- Dog-fighting rules (from Crusade of Fire)

via Romeras (warseer)

Can confirm guys, definitely going ahead, nothing new in it just a compilation of all the flyer rules into one handy supplement, supposed to be au $35 so for every one else about half that price lol. Storm ravens are definitely able to be taken for Space Marines and Black Templar, bu that's the only change.

[Phototoxin]

I hope the necron fliers get a 100% price increase and ruin all the cheese mongers flying circus armies.

/bitter

[energongoodie]

If it does indeed include the Crusade of Fire dog fighting rules, does that not make the Crusade of fire book officially the most worthless and useless piece of bobbins ever released by Games Workshop?

So now Tau flyer included?

[Dalleron]

Sounds like there's potential in this thing. But I wonder why give the storm thingy to SM and Templars, but not DA or SW. Are they going to change it to be inline with the new DA flyer? So many questions. Are they adusting the Necron or Eldar fliers? I suspect they will do none of that. Many questions.

[Deadlift]

Tau flyer would be cool, but if were as close to a Tau release as the rumours are saying, I can see them being saved for a codex release. Which looks like it could be massive.

[Kevlarshark]

If it does indeed include the Crusade of Fire dog fighting rules, does that not make the Crusade of fire book officially the most worthless and useless piece of bobbins ever released by Games Workshop?

No that Honour goes to either the "Wargear compendium" they released at the end of 4th edition which became useless when 5th edition came out within months, or the hideous (not chaosy just bad) metal Chaos posessed which were released just before the new wonderful plastic kit.

[DrLove42]

I'll need to see it first to see if the rules for the fliers are any different.

But if the costs are different to those in a codex, its going to be hard to enforce, particularly if its a limited run book

[eldargal]

It's not limited run, just direct only.

[DrLove42]

Still its the same problem. How do you enforce a change in codex points? If it even contains such a thing

Would the new print runs of a codex be changed? Would the digital copy of Codex Necrons (for example) update?

[eldargal]

They could update teh digital cersion and release an errata in a few weeks when initial sale of new shiny thing are over.

[DrLove42]

True. I guess they did do that for the Hellbrute in the CSM book.

Still. I think a points change is just a pipe dream. I think nothing will have changed

[Mr Mystery]

No that Honour goes to either the "Wargear compendium" they released at the end of 4th edition which became useless when 5th edition came out within months, or the hideous (not chaosy just bad) metal Chaos posessed which were released just before the new wonderful plastic kit.

Nah. Vehicle Compendium for Rogue Trader. Released literally weeks before 2nd Edition....

[Wolfshade]

Stormraven is ours leave it alone smurfs!

[Anggul]

Stormraven is ours leave it alone smurfs!

I don't imagine it would be much use to Codex: Space Marines anyway. Anything a Stormraven does they can do with Stormtalons and Drop Pods anyway. Black Templars on the other hand will love it, it's good for them.

[spaceman91]

Are they adusting the Necrons

My tau need adusting, but thats because they have been on a shelf;). Im sorry i saw it and couldn't help myself.

[eldargal]

I approve of pun based humour.

I'm a little confused by the rumours. One says it is an update to bring the old 5th ed skimmer-flyers in line with 6th edition with updated rules. Others say nothing is changing at all.

Also Crusade of Fire had other rules in and the campaign which was rather enjoyable (especially in light of who won) so I wouldn't say having the flyer rules in another book with a bunch of other stuff makes it useless. Though I admit I don't think it was quite as good as Blood in the Badlands which was really good. I just hope Dark Eldar get damned ace pilots this time.

[DrLove42]

We're still running our crusade of fire campaign. Its alright, but falls down when you have as many players as i do....

[Kirsten]

Though I admit I don't think it was quite as good as Blood in the Badlands which was really good.

Evidently people get different things from these books, I thought Blood in the Badlands was an unbelievable waste of time, I can't find a single interesting thing in the entire book.

Vaguely interested in this flyer book, but we shall see. Will have to find out what it actually contains.

[Bigred]

For me the big question is the fate of the flyer wave.

There is still murmurs of them out there on the other side of this book release. GW seems intent these days on the 7-day "OH LOOK BUY NOW" theory of marketing - so maybe those 4 flyers are coming in late February, or maybe punted off a quarter...

Meanwhile - Warmachine and Infinity grow like weeds...

[Caitsidhe]

Meanwhile - Warmachine and Infinity grow like weeds...

As well they should... being better games... and more reliable in release and response. Their models are getting better all the time too.

[eldargal]

Well Infinity is good, Warmachine is bloody tedious.

[Defenestratus]

For me the big question is the fate of the flyer wave.

There is still murmurs of them out there on the other side of this book release. GW seems intent these days on the 7-day "OH LOOK BUY NOW" theory of marketing - so maybe those 4 flyers are coming in late February, or maybe punted off a quarter...

Meanwhile - Warmachine and Infinity grow like weeds...

Larry - you really should, as an influential member of the gaming media, let GW know just how badly they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Personally - since I don't know whats coming for the next 6 months, I've put all my hobby spending on hold and dumping it into my boat instead. GW simply isn't giving me reason to set aside cash to buy their products since I have no idea whats coming.

[Kirsten]

Larry - you really should, as an influential member of the gaming media, let GW know just how badly they're shooting themselves in the foot.

they aren't though, sales figures show the policy works.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

You say Infinity and Warmachine are growing like weeds (nice image for something you're supposedly in favour of!), and they probably are: but I say I've seen a quarter of the regulars at my local store buy new Chaos Space Marine armies (or supplements to existing ones), followed almost immediately by the same amount again (sometimes the same people!) buying new Dark Angels armies. There's plenty of chat about the rumours we've heard and the pictures we've seen on the internet, and the buzz that generates is real and pretty powerful. This is anecdotal, but it doesn't look like a failing policy to me.

There are plenty of prudent, save-up-for-something people out there, and those are also the people more likely to buy from existing ranges consistently. But there's a lot of money to be made in the buzz of the brand new thing, which is what they're getting at with this.

[Kirsten]

yeah, GW have nothing to worry about from other games any time soon. Given that GW bashing is standard practice for many people on here it is easy to over estimate how popular other games are. I play a few other games, but Fantasy and 40k are always the mainstay, and almost nothing else is ever played at the local club with 100+ members.

[celestialatc]

If the Space Marines get the Storm Raven, I want my Grey Knights to get the Storm Talon! That thing is screaming for a Psychic Pilot!

[Defenestratus]

they aren't though, sales figures show the policy works.

Causality != correlation

Are the sales figures up because of the new marketing strategy, or despite it?

I can only speak for myself, but in this day and age, I'm not exactly dropping $$ on GW stuff like I used to. I'm definitely sourcing things like hobby supplies and resin bases from non-GW entities and I don't see that stopping any time soon. I've been considering putting money into a piggy bank for when my Codex gets released but its kind of tough to decide to do that if

1) I don't have ANY clue when its happening
2) I don't have ANY clue what, if any of the new models I'll actually LIKE
3) I don't know what price any new models will be
4) I don't know if I should go ahead and buy existing models now that may or may not get redone.

So what do I do? I spend money on my sail boat to the tune of about $2500 yesterday (new main sail) and about the same amount next month. That *was* money set aside for Eldar. Not anymore.

I also think that if you search through my previous posts, you'll find me siding with GW on many of their strategies, including price rises. I don't make a habit of hating on the company that provides me one of my favorite activities in life.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

To be fair, when the Eldar are out, you can rebudget knowing exactly what you want and get them whenever you want, then. It's not like we have to buy things in one big splurge as soon as they're new.

[Defenestratus]

To be fair, when the Eldar are out, you can rebudget knowing exactly what you want and get them whenever you want, then. It's not like we have to buy things in one big splurge as soon as they're new.

That is very true - but I wont be setting aside money for it like I would be had I known WHEN they were going to be released.

Instead- I'll pick up the collector's edition of the codex and a kit or two - but not a whole new army like I would like.

[Billy_Mx]

Why isn't any one complaining that the harpy won't be included!! I wanted a new model of a crab with wings!!!!

[LordGrise]

Well, while we're all airing out our wants...

I want the Tau Remora to be an effective combatant. Currently it is a BS 3 TL burst cannon (5/5 A3) with a range of 36, a SINGLE networked markerlight, and a PAIR of seeker missiles. For those of you who don't know, the seeker has been FAQed to be specifically not-Skyfire, no matter where the missile comes from. So even if the Remora hits another flyer with the markerlight, the seeker still needs a six to hit. Oh, and it has Stealth, presumably to make it even easier to ignore. All this for a measly 110 points! What a bargain!

Now, give it the same long-barrel burst cannons the Hammerhead can have (R36 6/4 A6) and no one would ignore it - least of all other flyers.

[Kawauso]

Now, give it the same long-barrel burst cannons the Hammerhead can have (R36 6/4 A6) and no one would ignore it - least of all other flyers.

But according to the internet a 6-shot S6 gun is worthless against flyers (aka the Nephilim).

[Phototoxin]

Well Infinity is good, Warmachine is bloody tedious.
Amen sister. Pity no one here plays infinity anymore. We had 4 guys and then they all disappeared. =(

[Archon Charybdis]

But according to the internet a 6-shot S6 gun is worthless against flyers (aka the Nephilim).

If the Nephilim were priced as the Remora is, I'd take 3.

[Kawauso]

If the Nephilim were priced as the Remora is, I'd take 3.

Well the Remora also has less armour, hull points and weapons, as well as a lower BS...

Just saying the Nephilim doesn't seem nearly as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

But I'm firmly in the camp of everyone else when it comes to armies getting access to flyers/flyer answers. I really hope there's more to this supplement than a recap of what already exists. Will probably add a Stormraven to my vanilla marines if they get the option, though.

[Defenestratus]

But according to the internet a 6-shot S6 gun is worthless against flyers (aka the Nephilim).

Funny how its almost always my nightwings shuriken cannons that do the most damage against opposing flyers.

[eldargal]

Which is probably more of an indictment of the bright lance than anything else.:p

[walrusman999]

Indeed, though no one is talking about the vendetta's capabilities ;) can put holes in people pretty easily, even if I only get 3 shots total. Also has 12-12-12 armor so your shuriken cannons only glance on 6. I'd be more worried about the bright lances and you out maneuvering me. Though due to a rule technicality I will just drop into hover mode turn as far as I need to and use skyfire to blow you out of the sky. I <3 Hovering Flyers.

[Tynskel]

The Remora rocks. Cheap, decent firepower, and it has flyer mounted missiles. Furthermore, it is really hard to take down, because it has a 3+ cover save, all the time.

[Muninwing]

here's the trouble with that reading of the seeker missile faq... there are no flyers in the tau book, so that's a correct answer for those who read fluff and automatically assumed that skyrays would have skyfire (as they realistically should..)

this could, by some, be seen as "all seeker missiles, even shot by flyers, do not have skyfire" despite being flyers giving them that rule for all weapons, and given that the remora is not in the main tau book theirs wouldn't be considered.

i don't know about this... there's really no reason that remora missiles shouldn't be regular skyfire missiles. with that, they're pretty points-effective.

[Kawauso]

Indeed, though no one is talking about the vendetta's capabilities ;) can put holes in people pretty easily, even if I only get 3 shots total. Also has 12-12-12 armor so your shuriken cannons only glance on 6. I'd be more worried about the bright lances and you out maneuvering me. Though due to a rule technicality I will just drop into hover mode turn as far as I need to and use skyfire to blow you out of the sky. I <3 Hovering Flyers.

Fair points, all, but then everyone knows Vendettas are quite a bit better than they probably should be.

[Defenestratus]

Indeed, though no one is talking about the vendetta's capabilities ;) can put holes in people pretty easily, even if I only get 3 shots total. Also has 12-12-12 armor so your shuriken cannons only glance on 6. I'd be more worried about the bright lances and you out maneuvering me. Though due to a rule technicality I will just drop into hover mode turn as far as I need to and use skyfire to blow you out of the sky. I <3 Hovering Flyers.

Except

1) The Vendetta is AV10 on the back, and with vector dancer, thats where I'm putting my shots.
2) Go ahead and go into hover mode and shoot me with your skyfire (if I haven't made you jink the previous round). I"m pretty sure I can make my 2+ evade saves and then blow you up easily with something else since you're pretty darn easy to hit when I don't need skyfire to hit you.

Nightwings are not to be underestimated.

[Archon Charybdis]

"Q: Can Flyers in Hover mode still choose to use the Skyfire special
rule? (p81)
A: No."

https://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940039a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf

[walrusman999]

"Q: Can Flyers in Hover mode still choose to use the Skyfire special
rule? (p81)
A: No."

https://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940039a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf

Well that's stupid. Just makes me want to take more Vultures.

[Uncle Nutsy]

"Q: Can Flyers in Hover mode still choose to use the Skyfire special
rule? (p81)
A: No."

https://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940039a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf

yeah I always thought this was absurd. A pilot stops to hover his aircraft and suddenly his missiles can't target other aircraft? what, the onboard radar and IR sensors suddenly stop working? the ultra-advanced targeting computer just sort of has a hardlock suddenly?

cue picard facepalm. lolderp.

[Archon Charybdis]

I dunno, could a modern Apache reliably hit an enemy jet with it's 30mm? I really have no idea, I had to wiki half the terms in that sentence to be coherent, my point being it would seem to me as a layman that speed and altitude would play a huge role in your ability to target enemy aircraft.

[Gir]

yeah I always thought this was absurd. A pilot stops to hover his aircraft and suddenly his missiles can't target other aircraft? what, the onboard radar and IR sensors suddenly stop working? the ultra-advanced targeting computer just sort of has a hardlock suddenly?

cue picard facepalm. lolderp.

Yes, an aircraft hovering a few meters off the ground cannot engage an aircraft traveling at supersonic speeds at a much higher altitude.

[White Tiger88]

Ah this looks fun! my good old Avenger will still shoot all these buggers down!

[Mr Mystery]

You know, I'd expect to see some more pics by now.... All we've seen (well, I have, somewhere. Can't remember source) is a single, slightly ropey image of a cover. Which could have been a prank....

Seeing as it's apparently out/up for order on Saturday....

[korgüll]

Which could have been a prank....

Seeing as it's apparently out/up for order on Saturday....

Found on FB: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=486962951360258&set=a.173041352752421.43073.162945800428643&type=1&theater

[Ratliker]

What?
Nothing for tyranid again?

[gwensdad]

Found on FB: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=486962951360258&set=a.173041352752421.43073.162945800428643&type=1&theater

According to Google translate it's "On Saturday there is also this beautiful book!
It is only available in English and only to order from us, but it has EVERYTHING you could wish for flying heart!"

[DrLove42]

All but confirmed by my GW store.

Just posted on their facebook

"Make sure you come down tomorrow as there may well be some surprises you can order. ;)"

[Learn2Eel]

"Some" surprises? Like, more than just the flyer compendium? Probably too much to hope for :(

[DrLove42]

Thats a point. I've posted to ask him. I'll let you know if theres any replot

[Learn2Eel]

Thanks :) Though you needn't worry about it, it's Saturday here now so when I get up in the morning I'll make sure to let you guys know if there are any releases beside the flyer compendium. Fingers crossed!

[DrLove42]

Got a reply. I asked "Some? As in more than one?"

The reply was "I think so :)"

[eldargal]

The other surprise will probably be that there are no more surprises.

[Learn2Eel]

Awesome!
To both.

[Deadlift]

It's not limited run, just direct only.

A few of the stores on Facebook are indeed say its a limited item.

[eldargal]

Yep, evidently some of the earlier sources were mistaken. With any luck they may also be mistaken about the 'no significant rules changes' thing too.

[gwensdad]

It's up now
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1950012a

[Brakkart]

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2990206a_60040199031_DeathFromTheSkies01_873x627. jpg

£20


Death From The Skies
Death From The Skies

Death from the Skies brings the white-knuckle intensity of aerial combat in the 41st Millennium to your tabletop, featuring selected material from White Dwarf magazine, the Crusade of Fire supplement and exclusive new content. Exclusively available from games-workshop.com, this 72-page, full colour softback compendium book is crammed with background information, gaming ideas and hobby inspiration to help you bring the battle for air superiority to life.

It includes: a detailed account of the Battle for Cardrim, featuring White Scars Space Marines, Necrons and Orks locked in a deadly battle for control of a vital airfield; four new Air War missions that showcase the lightning-fast nature of aerial warfare; optional rules for dogfighting and veteran fighter aces for your Warhammer 40,000 games; and a showcase of beautifully painted Flyers from the 'Eavy Metal collection.

There are rules for using the Stormraven Gunship with a Codex: Space Marines and Black Templars army; updated rules for the range of Warhammer 40,000 Flyer models, including new bestiary and army list entries for the following codexes: Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks and Space Marines.

Please note: Death from the Skies is available in English language only

Plus a whole load of 1-click bundles with no saving other than wear and tear on your mouse keys. Gotta love how the 3x Stormtalon bundle is called a Skyhammer Squadron by name, and yet in the text is called a Stormstrike Squadron. Need better proof reading there GW, though I suppose one of those names is likely correct for a 6th ed Apoc formation.

[Learn2Eel]

I honestly can't see too many people picking this up, which is sad because I want to know if there are any actual rules changes for 5th Edition flyers before spending $50. Not that I'm trying to have someone else buy it and save us the trouble lol, more just I'm not convinced the book is worth it, especially given we have no way of determining the quality of the product.

[Kawauso]

I've pre-ordered one. It'll just be nice to have the rules all modernized and in front of me on-paper. And since I don't have paper Stormtalon rules and the like that's also a plus.

The one-click bundles remain rather disappointing, though...and they could have at least used the opportunity to re-release the Kasrkin in Finecast or launch missing models for DE or Nids...
Actually, why don't 'Nids get an update to their FMCs in this book? =/
Not that I'm really expecting much (or anything) in the ways of rules changes but still...

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah it's definitely not bad at all if you don't have the White Dwarf insert from last year, which I think is probably a common issue. I just wished, as you said, they updated the Tyranid flying monstrous creatures - Daemons could have used some love too, but if they are indeed getting a new codex in a few weeks, that would explain why....

[Dalleron]

GW must have pretty strong faith in their customer base to have a product be direct only and expect us all to buy it, without having it available in stores to peruse before hand. Sure it will sell decently, but at 40$ canadian, that's alot for an unknown product.

[eldargal]

It's not limited either, so the initial reports were right in that regard. It explicitly says 'updated' rules too so interesting to see how that pans out. I'm probably going to wait until the March WD has been leaked in case there are flyers coming, I'm not that desperate for it.

[Mr Mystery]

Tasty words are tasty.... No no, no need to pass the salt

Looks like I'll be getting mine next week.

[White Tiger88]

Anyone else find it funny all the "Deal bundles" work out the same as buying the models separate?

[eldargal]

Not really, they are called 'one click collections' which is all they are. Not deals.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope, I won't be getting this, my Dark Angels are fine thank you very much.

[eldargal]

It's almost like Dark Angels got a shiny new 6th edition codex with flyer rules already or something.:p

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Almost, I vastly preferred my Talon of Stormtalons. :p

[eldargal]

I like storm talons. They are like little malevolent flying frogs with guns on.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Heh. I suppose that is one way to describe them! :p

[Brakkart]

Today's White Dwarf Daily article has this to say about the book:


Death from the Skies covers everything aerial in Warhammer 40,000, including four scenarios based around flying units and rules for dogfighting, which were featured in the limited edition Crusade of Fire book that came out last year. If you missed getting your hands on them, then this is the perfect opportunity to get them. There are even special manoeuvres that can be taken by pilots, such as the brutal Dark Eldar slash attack, the Necron firing protocols or the aptly named 'Smash 'em' for the Orks, which essentially results in a mid-air collision

I like the idea of special manoeuvres, very curious to see if they are any good. I never got Crusade of Fire so no idea if those rules were in that book, or whether they are new for this one.

[White Tiger88]

I like storm talons. They are like little malevolent flying frogs with guns on.

I can't wait for my Vendetta's & Avenger to make them into frog soup.........

*Cough*

Anyhow why the hell does everyone get the stormraven now? Calgar with a flying transport? Thats all we need!

[jonsgot]

I'll pay £20 just to avoid having to search through dozens of white dwarfs to find the rules I need. Order placed.

[Cpt Codpiece]

order in :)

my mentor legion can have ravens now :) wooooo

any word on contemptors getting piggybacks on ravens?

[Kawauso]

Anyhow why the hell does everyone get the stormraven now? Calgar with a flying transport? Thats all we need!

It makes sense.

The Stormraven's role fits perfectly with the tactics all Space Marines are generally known for, and having access to it enables that feeling to be brought into non-Apocalypse games where you don't have to shell out for a Thunderhawk.

[Sanguineone]

Plus GW don't actually have to bother with making a new flyer for SM which would slow down the profit!
GW is now run by ferengi.

[Brakkart]

An interesting addition has been made to the Space Marine FAQ with regard to flyers:


Q: Land Speeder Storms, Stormraven Gunships and Stormtalon
Gunships are all listed as Space Marine vehicles in the Reference
section. Does this mean that every Space Marine Chapter now has
access to these vehicles as well (i.e . Space Wolves, Blood Angels,
Grey Knights etc.)? (p411)
A: No – you may usually only select units and vehicles that are
available in the army list section of your codex. The two
exceptions are the Stormtalon and Stormraven Gunships,
which are available to armies chosen from Codex: Space
Marines and Codex: Black Templars. The rules for using these
Flyers can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium.

So it looks like the Black Templar's have gained 2 flyers from this new book!

There are changes to a bunch of the other FAQ's too.

[Sanguineone]

Yeah they have removed deep strike from the storm raven....... So now BA and GK can't use DS even though it is in their codex.

[Mr Mystery]

Plus GW don't actually have to bother with making a new flyer for SM which would slow down the profit!
GW is now run by ferengi.

A publicly listed company...run for a profit?? what fresh hell is this??

[Nabterayl]

A publicly listed company...run for a profit?? what fresh hell is this??
I for one suggest we go back to the good old days, when the only people able to create art for a living were those fortunate enough to be personally hired by millionaires.

[Mr Mystery]

Yes. And don't forget to burn all your profits. That's what you do when you inadvertently make some instead of running your business into the ground!

I for one am so disgusted by my ever increasing disposable income I make a point of shredding my cash'

[Belial69]

Just received my shipping confirmation, looks like it was an immediate release item. Whether its any good we'll soon find out.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yeah they have removed deep strike from the storm raven....... So now BA and GK can't use DS even though it is in their codex.

They're just bringing it into line with how flyers work in 6th Edition for everyone. Deep Strike was a holdover from the 5th edition fudging of flyers. You fly on from Reserve, like everyone else.

[Wolfshade]

I think what is more intruiging is how it was brought out.

Don't forget that the Codex Blood Angels was back in April 2010, Grey Knights a year later. If you wanted to test the demand for them certainly trial running them in a sub-space marine market is a great plan.

It is quite clear that the gaming community was quite excited by this model, we only have to look at some of the conversions to see it. With flyers becoming de riguer in 6th ed. it became increasing desirable to have air support, and so why not have a form of transport?

Expanding it to all other space marines (bar wolves who don't like flying) seems to make sense, after all if one chapter has it chances are its stc and would best be used by all of the loyalists. Of course we will have to wait for 7th ed for flyers to be a bit more balanced once we have brought them all ;)

[Belial69]

Just posted by forgeworld on their Facebook page....


With Death from the Skies now on sale, and with thanks to numerous posts on our wall, consider this an official FAQ:

The rules don't overlap onto Imperial Armour Aeronautica. Any of our flyers that list Deep Strike among their special rules can still Deep Strike.
Stormravens cannot carry Contemptors.
Storm Eagles aren't available to Blood Angels. There's a price for refusing to reveal STC data.

[Wolfshade]

Storm Eagles aren't available to Blood Angels. There's a price for refusing to reveal STC data.

Love it :)

[Defenestratus]

Storm Eagles aren't available to Blood Angels. There's a price for refusing to reveal STC data.


Are they?

For what? The Baals?

[Caitsidhe]

<chuckles> I don't think anyone begrudges a business from wanting to make money. There is a difference, however, between making a profit and gouging your customers and operating in much the same manner as a used car lot. If you choose to do it, don't be surprised if you get held in the same esteem as a used car salesman. :) It is perfectly legal. It is the attitude, "let the buyer beware." Some companies see themselves as predators and the consumer their prey. Some companies see themselves as providing a service and consider their relationship symbiotic. Clearly car salesmen fall into the predatory group.

One of the reasons I'm rather positive on the ever increasing competition to Games Workshop is because the "invisible hand" will ultimately do its job and improve the situation for the CONSUMER. In short, good quality at competitive prices. Every time I see another business pop up (crude or refined) it does my heart good. I don't care about Games Workshop. I don't hate them. I don't like them. They are soulless merchants, nothing more. They sell a product because they want my money. I don't owe them any brand loyalty, kind words, or even the benefit of the doubt.

They want something from me. By default, the weight is on them to provide me something that will part me from it. If they don't give it to me, someone else will. When they do something right, I comment on it. When they do something wrong, I comment on that too. It is the nature of business, however, that people tend to comment and remember the wrong stuff you do more than the good stuff. That is why it behooves companies to watch their step. For better or worst, the market is changing; the world has moved on. Relating all this to the topic of the thread, I'm not sure this supplement amounts to being worth selling to us. I think they would have made MORE profit in the long run by giving this one away. Games Workshop could have used the good public relations. If they were going to sell it, why not put enough into it to actually merit the cost? Seriously, this book reaches a new level of what my old English teachers would have called "empty calories," i.e. writing a lot of words down to bulk the paper, none of which have any meaning or importance at all.

[Tynskel]

Yes. And don't forget to burn all your profits. That's what you do when you inadvertently make some instead of running your business into the ground!

I for one am so disgusted by my ever increasing disposable income I make a point of shredding my cash'

I have a specially built chimney design for efficient cash burning. the only way to save the world economy is to burn the money as fast as possible.

[Wolfshade]

One of the reasons I'm rather positive on the ever increasing competition to Games Workshop is because the "invisible hand" will ultimately do its job and improve the situation for the CONSUMER. In short, good quality at competitive prices. Every time I see another business pop up (crude or refined) it does my heart good. I don't care about Games Workshop. I don't hate them. I don't like them. They are soulless merchants, nothing more. They sell a product because they want my money. I don't owe them any brand loyalty, kind words, or even the benefit of the doubt.


That is how economy should work, however, frequently you have price fixing that drives prices up, which is clearly bad for the consumer. c.f. Petrol prices.

[Caitsidhe]

That is how economy should work, however, frequently you have price fixing that drives prices up, which is clearly bad for the consumer. c.f. Petrol prices.

Well we don't have to worry about that for quite some time. Price fixing happens when there are only a small number of MAJOR players in an industry who have, after many years of competition, come to an uneasy agreement to keep any future competitors out and prices at a certain mark. Currently the miniature war games industry is in the opening stage of the "wild west" where technology and distribution has broken the old monopolies open like a seagull does to a clam. We won't see price fixing for at least twenty years (if ever). Fuel is simply a very different market than toys. With fuel there are the strangle points of supply, refining, and distribution which are all owned by a tiny minority of businesses (and impossible for others to break in). Anyone, literally ANYONE, can break into the miniature war games market.

[Wolfshade]

Well we don't have to worry about that for quite some time. Price fixing happens when there are only a small number of MAJOR players in an industry who have, after many years of competition, come to an uneasy agreement to keep any future competitors out and prices at a certain mark. Currently the miniature war games industry is in the opening stage of the "wild west" where technology and distribution has broken the old monopolies open like a seagull does to a clam. We won't see price fixing for at least twenty years (if ever). Fuel is simply a very different market than toys. With fuel there are the strangle points of supply, refining, and distribution which are all owned by a tiny minority of businesses (and impossible for others to break in). Anyone, literally ANYONE, can break into the miniature war games market.

Now if only there was a games manufacturer that owned a monopoly, that say 95p of every £1 was spent on...

[Brakkart]

Well nuts, just went to the GW site to order myself a copy of this book (as I have money in the bank to do so now) and this has been added to the product listing:


**STOP PRESS**
Due to exceptional demand Death From The Skies is out of stock. We will make this book available to purchase as soon as we are able, in the meantime please keep checking back on this product page for any updates.

Guess they underestimated demand by a pretty big margin!

[Learn2Eel]

That leads me to believe that either they really were trying out something new and thus didn't expect it to sell well, or this book's reputation isn't nearly as bad as many have made out. Good stuff either way.

[Jacob29]

Wait people actually bought that?

What happened to the stand guys!

[Wolfshade]

Wait people actually bought that?

What happened to the stand guys!

"I won't buy GW stuff it is over priced"

<<GW releases new stuff>>

*Nergasm must buy*

*Buys stuff*

"I won't buy GW stuff it is over priced"

etc..

Also, what stand>?

[Caitsidhe]

Well nuts, just went to the GW site to order myself a copy of this book (as I have money in the bank to do so now) and this has been added to the product listing:



Guess they underestimated demand by a pretty big margin!

Not likely. :) What they are doing is called "publishing on demand." You and nearly everyone is going to get that message until a certain minimum order is met at which time they will print them off. :) It is becoming standard practice for this sort of thing. They will send the electronic version instantly as there is no reason not to do so. As to the physical book, they printed a tiny (TINY) number of them and will rate interest before printing more. They won't print ANY books until they hit the pre-sold number that gives them a break on printing that hits their price mark.

I assure you they didn't have several hundred thousand of these books on hand and sold out in a few days. *Think of it as an "unofficial" Kickstarter campaign. They don't tell you that they don't have them. They just tell you they are sold out and simply don't print them until they are paid for by people ahead of time. One could also comment on the fact that they can give the impression that the thing is selling like hotcakes to try and urge other people to run right out and buy one! ;)

[phreakachu]

i was sincerely hoping that csm MIGHT get the stormraven. i would LOVE to corrupt one in order to drop some 'zerkers on the board.. *sighs* well, theres always apoc.

[Mr. Furious]

Caitsidhe may be onto something. Don't you think if this book existed we would have seen some leaked pics or had some reviews posted from folks who picked them up from their local gw store on release day? Historically, the items that were released for order on a Saturday were available at the brick and mortars on the same day.

[Learn2Eel]

Caitsidhe may be onto something. Don't you think if this book existed we would have seen some leaked pics or had some reviews posted from folks who picked them up from their local gw store on release day? Historically, the items that were released for order on a Saturday were available at the brick and mortars on the same day.

But that logic is flawed as no LGS is running them in-store, they are a direct-only item which means the earliest we would be seeing leaked pictures is today or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure this isn't the first direct-only release GW have done, so it really isn't all that unusual. Also, they probably don't want to be filling the shelves with a book that will be replaced in a fortnight by the new Daemons....

If someone picks it up tomorrow at my LGS (I'm betting a handful ordered it on Saturday) I'll make sure to tell you guys if there are any important changes/what stormstrike missiles do.

[Mr. Furious]

But that logic is flawed as no LGS is running them in-store, they are a direct-only item which means the earliest we would be seeing leaked pictures is today or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure this isn't the first direct-only release GW have done, so it really isn't all that unusual. Also, they probably don't want to be filling the shelves with a book that will be replaced in a fortnight by the new Daemons....

If someone picks it up tomorrow at my LGS (I'm betting a handful ordered it on Saturday) I'll make sure to tell you guys if there are any important changes/what stormstrike missiles do.

My local GW retailer gets all of the direct only items on release and can order any of the direct only products for his customers. He was told he would be getting some of the Death from the Skies books but they weren't in last Friday's shipment as he expected. Direct only items are always available in GW stores or stores that order direct from GW rather than through a distributor. I purchased the Dark Vengeance limited Edition box set from the store on the first day it was available to order from the GW web site.

[Learn2Eel]

Fair enough, just saying that there have been items in the past that all stores I know of haven't run in-store.

[eldargal]

That leads me to believe that either they really were trying out something new and thus didn't expect it to sell well, or this book's reputation isn't nearly as bad as many have made out. Good stuff either way.

It would be interesting to know how many were printed in this initial run. This happened with both Blood in the Badlands and Crusade of Fire before now. Internet nerd rage over how stupid and unnecessary it was and that campaigns should be in WD not in a more expensive book, then it sells out quickly because most people are happy to buy this sort of thing. Which, incidentally, GW used to do a lot of back in the 'good old days'. Never saw anyone whining about Grudge of Dong or whatever it was called or the 40k Compendium being a cynical attempt to make money out of people.

[Brakkart]

I'll make sure to tell you guys if there are any important changes/what stormstrike missiles do.

I can do that now thanks to someone on 4chan posting up a bunch of screenshots of their digital copy of the book:

Behold Stormstrike Missiles...

3661

Also the points costs of vehicles have changed as seen in this shot of the Stormtalon's entry:

3662

[Cap'nSmurfs]

There is no digital copy of this book, is there? That Stormstrike screenie appears to be a screenshot from an updated digital Codex: Space Marines (Chapter Five: Forces of the Space Marines is the Codex, innit), which means I need to go download that on my brand-new secondhand IPad right damn now.

Also means my Stormtalon has gone down by 30 whole points, which is not insignificant at all.

[spaceman91]

It's enough. My ST got 10pts cheaper. Makes a difference because i now have those points to spend on something else. In my torny list 10pts in 600 is helpful

[DrLove42]

Just someone tell me the Necron fliers went up in price....

[Mr Mystery]

It won't sell will it?


**STOP PRESS!**

Due to exceptional demand Death From The Skies is out of stock - it has quite literally flown off the shelves in our warehouse. Never fear though, because the print servitors have already set to work on a new print run - we'll let you know on the product page and here on White Dwarf Daily as soon as the book becomes available again.


LOL!

[spaceman91]

The rule it has, strafing run, is it permanent or only when it hovers like the old rule for it?

[DrLove42]

Has anyone got the real book yet? And can tell us how different it is

[Herzlos]

It would be interesting to know how many were printed in this initial run. This happened with both Blood in the Badlands and Crusade of Fire before now. Internet nerd rage over how stupid and unnecessary it was and that campaigns should be in WD not in a more expensive book, then it sells out quickly because most people are happy to buy this sort of thing. Which, incidentally, GW used to do a lot of back in the 'good old days'. Never saw anyone whining about Grudge of Dong or whatever it was called or the 40k Compendium being a cynical attempt to make money out of people.

Crusade of Fire didn't sell out quickly; it sold out from the GW website quickly but sat on the local GW store shelves for weeks (last I checked), and I saw at least 10 of them in my FLGS window yesterday.

The website saying they've sold out doesn't mean they are unavailable, just that the allocation for the website is sold out (presumably by collectors and speculative buyers). But they won't tell you that or use some sort of system where they can buy-back unsold store orders to sell on through the site.

I'd certainly be interested to know the size of these print runs too though, I bet it's not very high at all (2-3k units)

[eldargal]

Really? So you visited every GW in the world to check how their Crusade of Fire copies sold, did you? Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Not to mention that Death from the Skies is website only and has sold out...

[Deadlift]

As you say EG, Internet nerd rage isn't a good indication of actual sales, those that complain and moan will always complain and moan. The rest of us quietly buy what we want from GW regardless of the usual whinge contingency.

The sceptic in me though does question the inclusion of the Stormraven in the vanilla dex and wonders if this is due to a drop in sales of the model. Personally seeing less and less BA players since 6th, don't see many in GK lists. I think it's move into the vanilla Dex is nothing more but to shift models, I am not complaining mind you, that's just how I see it.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Sales are obviously one factor (I mean, I'd have bought one when it came out but I play Ultramarines), but also I think it's because Flyers are such a thing now, which they weren't when it was released. It was initially released as a special kind of "flying skimmer" to reflect the fast, deep strike style attacks of those two armies. But now everyone has flyers (or will when they're updated). It doesn't make sense for the Space Marines in general not to have access to a heavier flyer / gunship / transport. Angels and Grey Knights will get new bespoke things next time around.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Just to confirm that the digital Codex: Space Marines has been updated with the Stormraven and new points costs for the Stormtalon.

[JMichael]

That leads me to believe that either they really were trying out something new and thus didn't expect it to sell well, or this book's reputation isn't nearly as bad as many have made out. Good stuff either way.

I ordered 2 (1 for me and 1 for our group).
Maybe I'm just one of the suckers, but for only $33US why not buy it?
I play Eldar and Sisters, and thus don't have any flyers anyway..but I do pick up every book so I know the rules. Had the book been in the $40-$50 dollar range, I might have held off.
Gw states my books have already shipped, so unless someone else beats me to it, I'll post a quick review when I gets it.

[Caitsidhe]

I ordered 2 (1 for me and 1 for our group).
Maybe I'm just one of the suckers, but for only $33US why not buy it?
I play Eldar and Sisters, and thus don't have any flyers anyway..but I do pick up every book so I know the rules. Had the book been in the $40-$50 dollar range, I might have held off.
Gw states my books have already shipped, so unless someone else beats me to it, I'll post a quick review when I gets it.

I don't think it makes you a sucker. I just think it makes you someone who has more disposable income than me. I could never bring myself to spend money on something that provides me so little. I'd rather spend that on more models. :)

[JMichael]

Death from the Skies FAQ are up...even before the book arrives!
Only 1 paragraph though:

ERRATA
Page 68 – Army List, Stormraven Gunship, Grey Knights
Stormraven Gunship.
Change first sentence to read ‘Stormravens in detachments
chosen from Codex: Grey Knights are Fast Attack and must
replace their stormstrike missiles with mindstrike missiles
(pg 64).

[ElectricPaladin]

I have a question for those of you who have - or will soon have - the book:

At the moment, I am not interested in 40k. Don't worry - my interest will surely return. I play two armies - codex Marines and Blood Angels - that already have flyers.

The question is this: in your opinion, is it worth for me to buy this book, or should I wait until my interest comes 'round to 40k again, in the hopes that my armies will develop new codices, which I will definitely have to buy, by then? Is there anything really interesting, that I want to own personally, or just stats for models?

[LordGrise]

I also have a question, although mine is more in the way of confirmatory than inquisitory ::grin:: I take it there's nothing for the Tau in this book, other than the dogfighting rules?

[dirheim]

I have another question, since the supplement is only in English, is it legal if I use it in a Spanish tournament? Since it has not been translated, and being translated materials the only ones legal for use in tourneys/leagues I don't know if it is worth buying it.

[Wolfshade]

That sort of question is probably best addressed to your TO.

[dirheim]

I know this should be addressed by TO and League Masters, but what I don't understand that this is the first time in a long time that a supplement is not released in all the official languages (French, German, Italian and Spanish) Is a bit weird and I hope it doesn't start a new trend.

[Wolfshade]

I think they were slightly taken aback at how popular this product is.
I believe that all the rules had previously been released in WD or other codecii

[Belial69]

My copy just arrived, wd battle report, flyer stuff from crusade of fire, very mildly updated rules for storm raven, storm talon, valk/vendetta. Razerwing and void bomber, night/deathscythes and the dakka/burna/blitza.

[energongoodie]

My copy just arrived, wd battle report, flyer stuff from crusade of fire, very mildly updated rules for storm raven, storm talon, valk/vendetta. Razerwing and void bomber, night/deathscythes and the dakka/burna/blitza.

Feeling like it was worth the money or not?

[eldargal]

Any chances to the Razorwing/Voidraven? Dare I hope the price of the Nightscythe has gone up?

[Belial69]

Worth getting, yes. Handy, nice layout. Worth £20? No. 72 pages, essentially one of the old £12 softback codex books
With less content.

[Belial69]

Can't think what the codex points are off top of my head but sr200, st110, va100,ve130, rw145, vr145, ds175, ns100, dj110, bb125, blb135.

[eldargal]

Hm no changes in points costs then, bah.

Is there are a Dark Eldar ace pilot?

[Belial69]

Razorwing still the same stats, all flyers in the book have lost deepstrike. Upgrade to either missiles 5pts, either shields 10pts. Upgrade splinter rifles as before 10pts. Lances for dissys for free

[Belial69]

Yep, the eldar ace from crusade is now eldar/dark eldar, same options as crusade. All aces still 50pts.
Still none for sisters, Daemons or nids unsurprisingly.

[eldargal]

Well that is something at least. It would be nice if they FAQed CoF for that but I suppose that is too much to ask. Thankfully I'm in a group that was already letting DE players use the eldar ace pilot so it doesn't matter.

[Belial69]

Apart from sticking dark eldar on the eldar ace, the entire section is copy/pasted direct from crusade of fire.

[sneakyben]

Would it be possible to get an overview of the rules for the Valk/Vendetta?

These are the only models I have that are in the book and I wondered how they are specifically effected.
[if it is a lot, then the book may be needed; if not, then I will stick with what is the codex/BRB]

[Belial69]

Same as guard codex, but lost deepstrike. And the grav chute insertion is the same as the stormraven version in the new FAQ.

[Caitsidhe]

Same as guard codex, but lost deepstrike.

This, of course, the funny part. Rarely was that used anyway. All the people complaining about the Vendetta as being too powerful have based it on output and price.

[robrodgers46]

This, of course, the funny part. Rarely was that used anyway. All the people complaining about the Vendetta as being too powerful have based it on output and price.

It also lost scout, which means no outflank. This was used *often* to set up that rear armor shot. It's silly, of course, to have an airplane that can only fly in from one direction, but one has to be careful not to think to much about GW rules.

The Vendetta is still a steal at the points, but losing outflank makes it less of an auto-include than it was before.

[Krayd]

Yep, the eldar ace from crusade is now eldar/dark eldar, same options as crusade. All aces still 50pts.
Still none for sisters, Daemons or nids unsurprisingly.

What about Chaos Space Marines? I don't think they had ace rules in Crusade of Fire either.

[Belial69]

Everyone now except Daemons, sisters and nids has an ace. :)

[Learn2Eel]

I had a quick glance at the book today, and I must say it doesn't look a bad buy at all. It isn't the best purchase for someone looking for flyer updates, though it is still invaluable for Codex: Space Marines/Black Templars/Orks players. The artwork and quality looked great.

[eldargal]

I don't suppose you noticed if there was a picture of the Voidraven? As in art, not a photo.

[Belial69]

Alas no, the bestiary section for the voidraven shares the same page as the razorwing. I've been through all the pics/illustrations just to check if gw were doing a hidden in plain sight thing, but no :(

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's worth noting that the Stormtalon has changed a bit. It now has the Strafing Run rule which gives it +1 BS against non-flyer, non-skimmer ground units at all times, not just when hovering. Skyhammer Missiles are also much cheaper - my Talon has gone down from 155 to 125 points. Not too shabby!

[DrLove42]

To me its just annoying, and now i'm not buying a copy.

Why do Marines seem to get favouritism with points changes and new aircraft and rules, but everyone else doesn't?

[eldargal]

'cos Marines get preferential treatment in all things. To be fair it could be because three non Marine armies are getting codices in the next nine months (Daemons, Eldar and Tau) and as far as I know Tau have no GW flyer and nor do eldar. The DE flyers are already quite good (though really they ought to have vector dancer going by the background but whatever).

[The Girl]

Late breaking developments: retailers pushing back against GW...


The Games Workshop Problem
by Gary Ray of Black Diamond Games

I wrote in 2005 that if you had just started carrying Games Workshop, you would never know they had previously been the most reviled games company on the planet. They were helpful. flexible, and actively supported retailers ... in 2005. Before that, they actively undermined independent hobby stores and the you only need to scratch the surface to hear horrifying tales from back then.

Why the change in 2005? It's the kind of corporation that doesn't change their policies until the existing policies stop working. So when sales slump, they try new things, like not being a dick. Well, sales were up 10% in 2012, so don't expect positive changes anytime soon.

The latest issue is their new Aerial Combat book, a direct only product that allows for flyers to be used by armies that didn't get them before, along with a lot of background fluff to justify it. Pat Fuge of Gnome Games in Wisconsin has banned it from in-store use, and many stores, ours included are following suit. It's likely a good book, no doubt, that may even drive sales of expensive flyers, but the decision to sell an important rulebook direct is just another slap in the face to independent retailers, a money grab by Games Workshop.

We're not only banning the book from use in our events, but we're taking a break from our "live and let live" approach and actively encouraging Games Workshop players to jump the fence and join us playing Warmachine and Hordes. Warmachine is on fire at our store, with sales up 230% last year and staff actively playing during our Wednesday and Sunday events. You should really check out this game, especially if you haven't tried the new edition.

Trade in your current edition Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and you take 40% off a starter box or rulebook for Warmachine or Hordes. We've done this with role-playing before, notably D&D and Pathfinder, so we know there are likely a bunch of rulebooks gathering dust and the need for excuses to start a new game. Let this be your excuse.

We will not allow Games Workshop to determine the fate of our store. I apologize if this puts you in the middle, an enthusiastic hobbyist victimized by a companies poor policies (you decide who). I think the book might even drive sales of flyers to those who don't have them now, but that's not the point. We have to draw the line."



Here's an open letter from Pat Fuge, CEO of the Gnome Games retail chain in Wisconsin:

"Dear Games Workshop. You have made it less than desirable to sell your games and allow our place space to be used for your exclusive sales to the customers we take care of. For that reason all content in your new Aerial Combat Book is banned for all of our events. The book will not be allowed in our stores and is considered contraband.

GW players if you want to trade in your armies for store credit for Warmachine we have an opportunity for you. Please email [email protected] for details."

"Trade in your current edition Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and you take 40% off a starter box or rulebook for Warmachine or Hordes. We've done this with role-playing before, notably D&D and Pathfinder, so we know there are likely a bunch of rulebooks gathering dust and the need for excuses to start a new game. Let this be your excuse."

Additionally, as of this posting several other independent retailers have pledged to ban the use of Death from the Skies in their stores. The supplement represents a tipping point in the strained relationship between independent retailers and Games Workshop, which released several exclusive products through their official website recently, cutting out independent retailers and driving consumers directly to Games Workshop for their hobby fix.


Games Workshop Responds


"Hello there,

Thanks for writing into us. Sorry for any confusion there may have been. Independent Retailers will be able to order this product just like any other Direct items. I also wanted to clarify that Death From the Skies is a compendium not a rules book. It reprints things previously printed in other books. If you have any other questions please contact us at 1-800-394-4263.

Games Workshop
North America Customer Services "

More from SpikeyBitz (http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/02/gw-direct-order-release-drama-daemon.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SpikeyBits+%28Spikey+Bits%29)

[Denzark]

Yeah - and what does retailers pushing back against GW have to do with this topic?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The latest issue is their new Aerial Combat book, a direct only product that allows for flyers to be used by armies that didn't get them before, along with a lot of background fluff to justify it.

Always good to start any moralising screed with a flat-out lie, I find.

[Defenestratus]

Always good to start any moralising screed with a flat-out lie, I find.

Didn't the book allow for Storm Ravens and Talons to be taken by other armies than what they were before?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Oh, fair point, as far as it goes - Black Templars got the ST and SR, Space Marines got the SR. Still a bit of a stretch, mind!

[Mr Mystery]

Sorry. But I tend to reserve my indignation for thins that actually matter in the grand scheme of things.

Like companies laying off staff and artificially suppressing wages because they only made 1.2 billion profit when they wanted to make 1.3 billion.

You know. Big things.

Or perhaps when a company abandons a factory due to civil war, along with it's workers, and then expects a few million in compensation from a fledgling government.....

[AnEnemy]

I have my problems with GW, but that rant was just...weirdly childish. Not to mention that GW pisses you off so you push a single competitor? Suspicious.

Why not discount Infinity or Dystopian Wars? My guess is that they have a very good deal going with PP on pricing. It's their right as business owners to back companies that they feel benefit them the most, but fomenting some sort of odd populist uprising as a cover to drive their own sales is skeevy. How much money do they think they're actually losing? Not to mention the obvious, which is that they can still order the book like any one else. It seems that what they're really pissed off about is that they want their discount.(although this isn't unreasonable, that is their profit margin being chipped at)

[Dasmoose]

Late breaking developments: retailers pushing back against GW...

The Games Workshop Problem
by Gary Ray of Black Diamond Games

I wrote in 2005 that if you had just started carrying Games Workshop, you would never know they had previously been the most reviled games company on the planet. They were helpful. flexible, and actively supported retailers ... in 2005. Before that, they actively undermined independent hobby stores and the you only need to scratch the surface to hear horrifying tales from back then.

Why the change in 2005? It's the kind of corporation that doesn't change their policies until the existing policies stop working. So when sales slump, they try new things, like not being a dick. Well, sales were up 10% in 2012, so don't expect positive changes anytime soon.

The latest issue is their new Aerial Combat book, a direct only product that allows for flyers to be used by armies that didn't get them before, along with a lot of background fluff to justify it. Pat Fuge of Gnome Games in Wisconsin has banned it from in-store use, and many stores, ours included are following suit. It's likely a good book, no doubt, that may even drive sales of expensive flyers, but the decision to sell an important rulebook direct is just another slap in the face to independent retailers, a money grab by Games Workshop.

We're not only banning the book from use in our events, but we're taking a break from our "live and let live" approach and actively encouraging Games Workshop players to jump the fence and join us playing Warmachine and Hordes. Warmachine is on fire at our store, with sales up 230% last year and staff actively playing during our Wednesday and Sunday events. You should really check out this game, especially if you haven't tried the new edition.

Trade in your current edition Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and you take 40% off a starter box or rulebook for Warmachine or Hordes. We've done this with role-playing before, notably D&D and Pathfinder, so we know there are likely a bunch of rulebooks gathering dust and the need for excuses to start a new game. Let this be your excuse.

We will not allow Games Workshop to determine the fate of our store. I apologize if this puts you in the middle, an enthusiastic hobbyist victimized by a companies poor policies (you decide who). I think the book might even drive sales of flyers to those who don't have them now, but that's not the point. We have to draw the line."
Here's an open letter from Pat Fuge, CEO of the Gnome Games retail chain in Wisconsin:

"Dear Games Workshop. You have made it less than desirable to sell your games and allow our place space to be used for your exclusive sales to the customers we take care of. For that reason all content in your new Aerial Combat Book is banned for all of our events. The book will not be allowed in our stores and is considered contraband.

GW players if you want to trade in your armies for store credit for Warmachine we have an opportunity for you. Please email [email protected] for details."

"Trade in your current edition Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and you take 40% off a starter box or rulebook for Warmachine or Hordes. We've done this with role-playing before, notably D&D and Pathfinder, so we know there are likely a bunch of rulebooks gathering dust and the need for excuses to start a new game. Let this be your excuse."

Additionally, as of this posting several other independent retailers have pledged to ban the use of Death from the Skies in their stores. The supplement represents a tipping point in the strained relationship between independent retailers and Games Workshop, which released several exclusive products through their official website recently, cutting out independent retailers and driving consumers directly to Games Workshop for their hobby fix.
Games Workshop Responds

"Hello there,

Thanks for writing into us. Sorry for any confusion there may have been. Independent Retailers will be able to order this product just like any other Direct items. I also wanted to clarify that Death From the Skies is a compendium not a rules book. It reprints things previously printed in other books. If you have any other questions please contact us at 1-800-394-4263.

Games Workshop
North America Customer Services "

It's not a compendium it has points and rule changes that are only available in this book. I wanted to use my SR so badly but if I don't get a screen shot of the page (hint) I'll hold out until my c:sm get a new codex I'm not paying for the 2 pages I need in a book of pictures.

[Necron2.0]

I have my problems with GW, but that rant was just...weirdly childish. Not to mention that GW pisses you off so you push a single competitor? Suspicious.

Not really. Warmachine and Hordes are already cutting into GW. Infinity and Dystopian Wars do not have the same sales potential. In terms of sales (looking at my own LGS only), the only other games that could produced the same volume of sales might be Flames of War, Bolt Action or the new X-Wing miniatures game from Fantasy Flight. So if they really meant to dump GW for a more reliable business partner, it would only make sense for them to push the next most profitable one.


Not to mention the obvious, which is that they can still order the book like any one else. It seems that what they're really pissed off about is that they want their discount.(although this isn't unreasonable, that is their profit margin being chipped at)

Um ... from a business perspective this doesn't make sense. If they were to order the book for someone, they'd be taking a loss. They would make no money on the transaction whatsoever, which means they'd get nothing to offset their basic operating costs. In addition, if the person they ordered the book for paid with a credit card, the store would actually have to pay a fee. So any sales of this book done with an LGS acting as the agent would be a completely uncompensated service to GW, and that makes no business sense whatsoever.

[eldargal]

If those retailers had any sense they would have made a fuss about selling discounted flyers to use with the damned book instead of whining about not being able to sell a twenty page compendium of already printed material. But you know, whatever, why try and sell things with a higher profit margin when you can whine about it.

[Drahazar]

I hate warmachine and hordes rule set and that dude sounds like he's just trying make money off this thing an that thread is off topic and should be deleted anyway.