The Krak Challenge

[Chexmix282]

Well earlier today I thought to myself, "how many Krak Missiles can I take with 2,000 points, while still making a viable army?". Well, my friends, this is what I came up with using the Space Wolves codex:

HQ
Logan Grimnar 275

Troops
5 Wolf Guard 140
-Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Meltabombs

5 Wolf Guard 140
-Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Meltabombs

5 Wolf Guard 140
-Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Meltabombs

5 Wolf Guard 140
-Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Meltabombs

5 Wolf Guard 140
-Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Meltabombs

5 Wolf Guard 140
-Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Meltabombs

Fast Attack
2x Land Speeder Typhoon 180

2x Land Speeder Typhoon 180

2x Land Speeder Typhoon 180

Heavy Support
5x Long Fangs 115
-4 Missile Launchers

5x Long Fangs 115
-4 Missile Launchers

5x Long Fangs 115
-4 Missile Launchers

Total: 2,000

That's 36 Missiles per turn, each at BS4. I can glance Land Raiders to death, and each scoring unit has Meltabombs as a last-ditch effort. I suppose they could be exchanged for Combi-Meltas if desired. My biggest concern is taking out flyers.

I don't know of many armies that can withstand 26 Frag or Krak missiles in a single turn. Now my question is... is there an even MORE ridiculous missile spam army out there? Post it! Got feedback for my list? Post it!

[rtmaitreya]

It's also important to be able to field it. I think I can field this one, albeit only half painted:

HQ
Company command squad [115]
officer of the fleet (slow enemy reserves)
camo cloaks, vox and two grenade launchers

Troops
Take two of the following platoons [1720 total]:

Command squad w 3 gren launchers, vox = 50

5 infantry units w MLs and special weapons (avg. 10 pts per SW mix) = 75x5=375
This blob contains 1 vox, 10 krak gren, 3 meltab, and commissar w/power = +75
because these are sensible things to add for general effectiveness [450 aubtotal]

4 heavy weapon teams w/MLs = 90x4=360

Elites
3 sentinels outflanking w/ML+HK [165]

Total: 2,000

Assume troops will be combined into 5x massive unit all at once, so you get 5 missiles at twin linking or rerolling cover with your orders. This is a better deal than using orders on just the three each from the heavy weapon teams.

10 twin linked MLs (7.5 hits)
24 regular MLs (12 hits)
6 MLs coming in outflanking (3 hits rear/side armor)
8 krak GLs (4 hits)
10 misc flamers, meltaguns, plasma guns to taste

It is pretty decent as an infantry list, and can pump out a very similar amount of firepower. Overall unkillable at range, but weak in assault, so we have a serious limitation that needs to be heavily compensated for in terms of target priority. Fortunately I can just about ignore enemy anti-tank units and flying units. . . I just don't care about them at all, so there isn't much contest for attention in the first two turns of my own shooting. . . if it has a rhino or a jump pack, I must kill it. Worry about the rest later. It's biggest weakness is moving forward, not due to ability (the blobs can happily march forward leaving the five MLs behind firing the whole way) but due to desire. I can't risk moving up until enemy assault elements are neutralized.

[Chexmix282]

Oh I can easily field my SW list, with some minor proxies. Only 60% is painted though, and I'm trying to include Bjorn the Fell-Handed for that critical re-roll to go first.

I really do like your list, I knew if any army could pump out more missiles it would be IG. I would try and get a pair of Vendettas in there for a strong anti-flyer defense.

[rtmaitreya]

Oh I can easily field my SW list, with some minor proxies. Only 60% is painted though, and I'm trying to include Bjorn the Fell-Handed for that critical re-roll to go first.

I really do like your list, I knew if any army could pump out more missiles it would be IG. I would try and get a pair of Vendettas in there for a strong anti-flyer defense.

Thanks for the kind words; I like the list as well. It all started because trollboss bob was having a crazy deal on praetorian heavy weapons. I have more MLs and lascannon praetorians than I can sensibly field, all at about a fifth the price (or tenth) of what they go for these days.

The control of reserves is a big deal with Guard, same as going first with shooty SW. I actually don't want my own reserves to arrive until turn 3 if possible, or if they arrive, I have to minimize their exposure and keep them way out of harm's reach.

The down side to vendettas is that it adds something for enemy flyers and anti-tanks to work on. Right now those elements of the enemy's force are forced into non-optimal targets. Firing orbital defense lasers and flakk cannons into 5 point guardsmen (or even 30 point weapon team models in heavy cover, if they can see me at all) just sucks the air out of their sails. Giving them a vendetta or two to play with makes me more well rounded and, I fear, weaker overall. Besides, everyone knows vendettas are underpriced and overpowered. . . nobody ever says that about any of the models I'm fielding right now in the army. Perceived suckiness is part of the charm.

In reality, I suppose I'll have fewer weapon teams and add in a commissar lord (for Ld bubble), Chenkov upgrade, and two 30-man bubble wrap conscript squads. People REALLY won't like wasting their time slamming into bubble wrap that pops when it's my turn to shoot. I like to think that whey aren't being disbanded. . . I'm just saying "Shoot them. Shoot them both." These items drop my firepower, but make the whole army stronger in play, because I get 5+ cover for my main squads AND protection from assault armies, so I can move up and engage objectives without as much fear.

I'm going to have a lot of fun building my guard out once I finish up my genestealer cult.

[Dalleron]

I believe that the best answer to how many of XX weapon can i put into an army will always be found in the IG codex. For most things.

[Chexmix282]

Well I had not considered allies before, and just made a new list:

Dark Angels Primary Detachment
HQ
Librarian 65

Troops
5 Tactical Marines 80
-Missile Launcher

5 Tactical Marines 80
-Missile Launcher

Fast Attack
3 Land Speeder Typhoons 225

3 Land Speeder Typhoons 225

3 Land Speeder Typhoons 225

Heavy Support
5 Devastators 170
-4 Missile Launchers w/ Flakk Missiles

5 Devastators 170
-4 Missile Launchers w/ Flakk Missiles

5 Devastators 170
-4 Missile Launchers w/ Flakk Missiles

1,410

Allied Space Wolves Detachment:
HQ
Rune Priest 100

Troops
5 Grey Hunters 80
-Meltagun

Fast Attack
3 Land Speeder Typhoons 270

Heavy Support
6 Long Fangs 140
-5 Missile Launchers

590

Total: 2,000

That's 43 Missile Launchers, 12 of which have Flakk Missiles. I think this will be much more effective overall than my original list, and actually has more missiles than the above IG list.

Can somebody top 43 BS4 Missiles, with decent flyer defense? I know IG can take more missiles overall, but IMO BS3 and T3/5+ are really limiting factors.

[Xenith]

I dont have the codex but:

In the last list, drop the space wolves, saving 590.

Double FOC The dark angels, min units a libby at 65, and two more flaktical squads at 80 each, for 225 spent for 365 left.

Assuming Flakks are 10pts each like the CSM codex. Drop 4x flakk upgrade for 405pts left. Take another 3x4ML dev squads leaving you with 15pts spare.

That gives you 24 missiles from the Devs. 18 from the Speeders, and 4 from the tacticals for 46 total.

TBH you could probably get more in a SW list by min maxing HQ/Troop/Fangs, and dual FOC'ing. Let's see.

200 2 rune priests
320 4X GH, Melta
840 6x long fangs (5ML)
630 - 7 typhoons

1990 - 44 Missiles/turn.

Nope. The massive cost/missile ratio of the SW mandatory units kills it.