1000 point krieg list - c+c please!

[dannypwo]

Hi

I'm returning to 40k after a year out and after familiarising myself with the updated rules im doing a pure death korps army list. I realise we may be weeks away from the 6th edition update contained in the 'Battle for Orpheus' IA12 book but as a first glance can you tell me if this is a good starting point. The current points are taken form the existing current PDF from FW's Krieg Seige Army list. The items i already possess appear in bold.

CCS - Plas Pistol, Reg Standard, Autocannon 95

Grenadier Squad - 2 x melta, Hvy Flamer in Centaur with EA 180

PCS - Plt Standard, Plas Pistol, 2 x flamer 75

I.S. - Plas Pistol, Flamer 75

I.S. - Plas Pistol, Flamer 75

Engineers Squad x 10, Gas Grenades, Demo Charge, Hades Breaching Drill 200

Medusa Seige Gun (static) x 3 300

I make this 1000 points on the nose and the idea is that i have enough to expand up in 250 point increments as i get more confident in the game.

Gameplay will be a static gun line with 2 options to counter attack and maneouvre with grenadiers or engineers. Im aware the rules for the engineers have changed but am relying that the new Krieg list still includes them as troops and keeps the points the same. my thinking also is that 3 medusa guns will settle most problems on the board at this point value. C+C please

[Nabterayl]

Hmmm ... I think the general idea of a trio of siege guns and infantry is a solid one. I'm torn on a few things:

The profusion of plasma pistols amongst the infantry. One thing I really like about the siege regiment list is the availability of power weapons on infantry sergeants. Is your thinking that you would take the plasma pistols for shooting? I'm ... not sure how wise that is, compared to having a WS4 power weapon, particularly since your selection of standards indicates that you are preparing for CC. But I mean that - I'm not sure.
The CCS' equipment seems a bit scattered to me. The plasma pistol I'm ambivalent about, for the same reason I'm ambivalent about all the plasma pistols, but the standard and autocannon seem kind of at odds with each other. The regimental standard needn't be used in assault, of course - it can just stiffen your line - but you have few enough troops that they'll have to move, and in order to stiffen the line with the standard your CCS will have to move, which will reduce the utility of the autocannon. Alternatively you could use your CCS as a firebase, but then I would be tempted to drop the standard.

[dannypwo]

thanks for the comment Nabterayl. Having not played a great deal in the past due to work commitments i never really cracked on what CCS and PCS should contain. I'm after a static gunline but with an ability to throw a few punches out when the power armoured assault marines finally hit me as it appears most of the gamers in the LGS use them. I just figured that the increased BS on the command squad members would have been worth giving them better fire power. if PW's are the better way to go then i'm all ears as i'm building my squads up over the next 2 days and i can rejiggle my lists accordingly. :)

[egorene]

First what about dropping the ccs and taking a quartermaster ?
Second what do you think about deepstriking or outflanking units?
Third 3 medusas really work ?
And what about 2 plasma guns in the pcs ? Maybe a leman russ or a
Hellhound variant could help too . Properly used the cavalry is real good ,and
why dont use plasma guns or a grenade launcher in the infantry squads?

[dannypwo]

my thinking was that overwatch would come into place as this is a predominantly a stand and shoot army as having 3 static strength 10 AP2 weapons
dropping templates on the board each turn would cause the enemy to bring the fight to me. i figured the flamers would be more useful to me that way.
i was going to consider a heavy hades breaching drill/engineer mob with a large amount of cavalry as a form of blitzkrieg but after playing recently i prefer a stand and shoot with infantry shield style. the engineers deep strike into play and i was going to use the grenadiers as a reactive unit against anything that pops up as an immediate threat as the game progresses.

[Nabterayl]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a stand-and-shoot use of your line infantry. However, given that, I question the utility of your plasma pistols. The question is this: given how you intend to maneuver your units, are you really likely to get a shot with that plasma pistol given its 12" range and the fact that everybody gets a 2d6" charge? If yes, all well and good - you know how your games tend to go and whether you're likely to get the chance (and have the judgment) to move up and shoot when an enemy unit is closing in for the kill. However, if you want it primarily for overwatch, I'd go with a power weapon (if you're primarily worried about charging marines, probably a power axe if you have it - axes have an illustrious history as trench warfare weapons, and at I3 you're striking after space marines anyway). Multiple WS4 power weapon attacks, I think, are more likely to threaten a charging enemy than is a single plasma pistol shot fired at BS1.

For the CCS specifically, I think you should ask yourself whether you want it to be a reactionary unit or an anchor for the infantry line. If the former, I would ditch the autocannon and tool up for close range combat - better a special weapon than a heavy weapons team, but keep the plasma pistol or power weapon. I'd also ditch the standard for this sort of squad in favor of close combat enhancing gear such as a bodyguard (another body in the squad) or extra gear for your company commander - unless you plan to actually assault with it, in which case I'd keep the standard and drop your lasguns for las pistols. I know assaulting with CCS's kind of goes against the received wisdom, but you're talking about fairly low point values, so hopefully you'd only be using them to assault remnants. Either way, this kind of squad is intended to punish an enemy who has assaulted one of your squads.

If the latter, I would ditch the plasma pistol for a plasma gun or grenade launcher - you still take advantage of the CCS' high BS, but you take a weapon with more range. You can keep the standard, because your CCS sets up on the firing line and thus the standard is more likely to be in range of your line squads.

[walrusman999]

I have nothing against your static gun line but I have had bad experiences with it against space marines that just assault a 50 man guard squad and kill them in 2 turns taking little to no wounds. That being said, I would agree with Nab that you should rethink your CCS. I would also say, why not look at using the PCS as a sort of CC squad while your regular troops do the shooting.

[dannypwo]

im thinking of running my CCS with a power sword and regimental standard now. The krieg list limits the amount of special weapons to one so in the gunline theme it will be sitting out of sight and I'll be changing all the Plasma Pistols to Power weapon upgrades for more choppy power and use that WS4 to some small advantage. Models are starting to look good as i've gone for a winter/snow camo theme. I may look at losing 5 engineers to throw another Infantry squad in and rejig a few points to increase the model count to throw a few more flashlight shots at that power armour i'm bound to face!

[dannypwo]

current rehash of the list is as thus

CCS - PW, Reg Standard 85

Grenadier Squad - 2 x melta, Hvy Flamer, Centaur + EA 180

PCS - PW, 2 x Flamer 60

IS - Flamer 65
IS - Flamer 65
IS - Flamer 65

Engineer Squad (5) , Gas grenades, Demo Charge, MB, Hades drill 155

Cyclops demolition charge/tank 25

3 x Medusa Siege Guns 300

1000pts total :)

I had spare points after a rejig and decided that a Cyclops may be a suitable investment for that direct demo charge hit that doesnt scatter - although i expect it to be more of a distraction than anything as overwatch fire will no doubt pop it. As its not purchased yet i can still free up 30 points very easily and reinvest the points in adding an AC to the CCS or even a master of ordnance. I could add PW's to the IS's but i'm still not too sure. Obviously the impending release of 'the battle of orpheus' will change this list on its release - hurry up FW!