Tervigon arriving from reserve and simultaneous things happening.

[dwez]

So the recent FAQ had this Question:


Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as perpage 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

This was presumably to clear up whether psykers arriving from reserve could cast a blessing on themselves or another unit on the turn they arrived. I understand from the FAQ this is the case, although a simple 'yes' would have been clearer. The way I understand it the 'coming on from reserve' acts like a compulsory move of your units maximum move distance that happens outside and before the 'movement phase' begins. As such you can do the reserve move and then do the psychic abilities at the same time, befor ethe movement phase begins.

Therefore would I be correct in thinking other pre-movement actions would follow suit and should happen simultaneously in an order of my choice? For instance:

A Tervigon comes on from Reserve 6", spawns 3D6 Termagants up to 6" in front of it and then casts Endurance on the unit of Termagants.

Additionally as the Termagants are spawned, and not subject to the reserve rules are they then able to move 6", shoot and assault as they normally would have just been 'hatched'.

A confirmation of my understanding and a 'what do you think?' of the Termagants, seems shady but legit to me unless someone can cite somethign where it wouldn't be possible, what's your take?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8197/8248415966_8196d860b9_z.jpg

[Nabterayl]

I think your logic is good, but the real import of that FAQ is a bit tricky. If you cross-reference with the psyker section, you'll see that if a power must be cast at the start of the Movement phase, it cannot be cast by a psyker who arrives from reserve that turn. So what the FAQ is actually telling us is that the start of the Movement phase occurs before (i.e., non-simultaneously) the start of the psyker's Movement phase.

So your logic is good but be careful not to apply it beyond its scope. Anything that happens at the start of the Movement phase cannot be done by a model on the turn that model arrives from reserve. Things that happen at the start of a particular model's Movement phase can, if the player whose turn it is so wishes.

[mathhammer]

A Tervigon comes on from Reserve 6", spawns 3D6 Termagants up to 6" in front of it and then casts Endurance on the unit of Termagants.

The tyranid codex clearly states that termagaunt spawning MUST happen before the tervigon moves.

Go back and read the codex it states when these actions shall occur.

[JMichael]

Reserve rolls is not the same as reserves being deployed.
I think the intent is to at least know what will be coming in that turn when casting, not to be able to cast it on units after they come in from reserves.

[Slacker]

So what the FAQ is actually telling us is that the start of the Movement phase occurs before (i.e., non-simultaneously) the start of the psyker's Movement phase.

Still not sure where you are getting this from, the answer to the question in the FAQ clearly states that manifesting a blessing, reserve rolls and outflanking rolls do happen simultaneously. I'm pretty sure the reason for 'the Psyker’s Movement phase' wording is merely a specification that the blessings are not cast during the opponents movement phase.

[Nabterayl]

It's the only reading I can come up with that doesn't flatly contradict the rulebook. As GW itself says in the FAQ, when they intend to flatly contradict the rulebook they use amendments or errata. FAQs are intended to explicate what is written, not to change it.

The rulebook plainly states that powers cast at the start of "the" movement phase cannot be cast by a unit entering from reserve. If that was not intended to be the rule it should have been changed through an erratum; if it was intended to be the rule but is intended no longer it should have received an amendment. Only if it is still the rule should it have received a FAQ.

[Slacker]

I'm not saying that they are changing anything. A psyker who arrives from reserve can't manifest a blessing, he isn't on the table at the beginning of the movement phase.

The clarification of this FAQ is stating that a psyker (who is on the table already) manifests his blessings ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ and that ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ actions are simultaneous with other actions that occur at the 'start of the movement phase' like rolling for reserves and outflanking. You are not manifesting blessings at 'the start of whenever the hell I feel like moving my psyker' during the movement phase.

[Nabterayl]

Ah, that was a reading I had not thought of. I certainly concur with that, at least as far as it goes. You think I am taking the FAQ too far by reading it to say that a power that must be cast at the start of a psyker's movement phase can be cast by the psyker the turn it arrives from reserve?

[Slacker]

The mention of 'rolling for reserves' seems to be confusing people. This FAQ question doesn't have anything to do with a psyker actually arriving from reserve. The FAQ is clarifying the timing of a psyker manifesting a blessing (which he can only do if he is on the table at the start of the turn) and when you make your rolls for any units you may happen to have in reserve. These things occur simultaneously and therefore the player whose turn it is may choose the order in which those two events occur.

Simply put, they are saying that "the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase" and "the start of the Movement phase" are indeed the same thing.

[Slacker]

Back to the Tervigon specifically. The specific wording on the Spawn Termagants ability is "in the Tyranid movement phase before it (the Tervigon) has moved" Since this is not specified as "at the beginning of the movement phase" I would say that the blessing would have to be manifested before Termagants are spawned.

[mathhammer]

and since the Tervigon is off the table, then it has to move onto the table and thus no blessings and no termagaunts.

If the Tervigon is on the table then the blessing comes first, then the termagaunts then the move.

If you use Catalyst and not Endurance, Catalyst is not a blessing and therefore can occur between the spawning and the movement.

"I" usually treat the spawning as a disembarkation move. It simplifies it and helps in explanation to other players.

[Dlatrex]

and since the Tervigon is off the table, then it has to move onto the table and thus no blessings and no termagaunts.

If the Tervigon is on the table then the blessing comes first, then the termagaunts then the move.

If you use Catalyst and not Endurance, Catalyst is not a blessing and therefore can occur between the spawning and the movement.

"I" usually treat the spawning as a disembarkation move. It simplifies it and helps in explanation to other players.

That's actually a pretty great analogy, and one I'll have to poach! But yes, I agree: the wording for spawn termagaunts does not allow an outflanking or otherwise reserved Tervigon to arrive and subsequently spawn gaunts. The distinction between Catalyst and endurance is an important one, so I am glad that was enumerated.

[rtmaitreya]

It is probably also worth noting that it does not appear that one can teleport using the mechanicum psychic power, then subsequently spawn termagants. The wording of the teleport power states that you enter as if coming in from Reserves, which counts as your movement. No teleport then spawn, but you could spawn then teleport, which is still pretty damned useful sometimes.