Hello King Richard III

[eldargal]

Archaeologists (the best kind of ologist) from the University of Leicester have just announced (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/richard-iii--leicester-car-park-skull-is-that-of-medieval-monarch-100132929.html) that they have confirmed that a body found in an excavation of the remains of Grey Friars church in Leicester are that of King Richard III who died at the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/j.oAEmDMYRXFAaoU1KfQlg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MjMzMztjcj0xO2N3PTM1MDA7ZHg9MD tkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTQyMDtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2013-02-04T000449Z_2006231789_GM1E9240M8P01_RTRMADP_3_BRIT AIN.JPG
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/2z2Jaf8j08PzNJwc_9757w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/251/2013/02/04/Richard-III-skull-Leicester3-04022013-jpg_104348.jpg
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/8TqQEgAt0.bRc46O4rNfpA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/251/2013/02/04/Richard-III-skull-Leicester4-04022013-jpg_104507.jpg
Not only where there signs of scoliosis and wounds consistent with a death in battle but DNA tests with one of the only traceable descendents of Richard III proved that th skellington was that of the last Plantagenet king. Very nifty.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Guess he didn't find that horse. xD


Also, Zoologists are cooler.

[eldargal]

I think it would be apt if they reinterred him at Westminster with the skellington of a horse.

Zoologists wish they were half as cool as archaeologists.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

*cough* David Attenborough *cough*

*cough* Charles Darwin *cough*

[DrLove42]

I'm a Tribologist....

[eldargal]

Darwin was a naturalist not a zoologist and Davind Attenborough is alright but overrated.:p

[Wolfshade]

I think it would be apt if they reinterred him at Westminster with the skellington of a horse.

Zoologists wish they were half as cool as archaeologists.

The issue of course is that he was Roman Catholic not Church of England so there could be issues.

The big question is can they then match DNA to the Princes in the Tower, or at least the two bodies alleged not to be them.

[Wolfshade]

Archaeologists (the best kind of ologist)

Cosmologists are the best kind of ologist

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But as a word, entymology is the best. Such an awesome word.

[Psychosplodge]

I'm a Tribologist....

Is that possible being male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribadism)?

The best ologist is irrelevant, as long as it's useful as opposed to something like sociologist, criminologist, or psychologist...

[eldargal]

The issue of course is that he was Roman Catholic not Church of England so there could be issues.

The big question is can they then match DNA to the Princes in the Tower, or at least the two bodies alleged not to be them.
It shouldn't be, most of the other Catholic Plantagenets are interred there.


Cosmologists are the best kind of ologist

They are in second place.

[DrLove42]

Is that possible being male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribadism)?

The best ologist is irrelevant, as long as it's useful as opposed to something like sociologist, criminologist, or psychologist...

Wrong field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribology

[Psychosplodge]

oops.

Surely they could hold a small catholic ceremony in Westminster still?

[Wolfshade]

How is the study of EVERYTHING not the best?

I would also argue that psycologists are usefuly, but not as much as psychiatrist.

But should he have a state funeral? Is it worth the cost? Epsecially given we are due one soon (not that is not a hope, more an observation of the aging nature of the DoE). As the last York king should he be buried at the Minister York? If he is buried what sort of service if it were Anglican then that would annoy the Romans as it would be a not proper rite, if it were Roman well then it can't be performed within the Abbey.

Then there are concerns over his involvement in his nephews disappearance.

[Deadlift]

Darwin was a naturalist not a zoologist and Davind Attenborough is alright but overrated.:p

Heresy at its greatest. David Attenborough has been educating the world about the natural world for well over half a century. I know my appreciation of the world about me has been enhanced by his natural history program's. The BBC I truly believe makes the best documentary television in the world and David is a big part of that. :p

As for Richard the III. It's an interesting find and I hope we see some programming detailing his life and this discovery.

Also it may not be an ology, but my favorite popular science is Astronomy, again the BBC is doing a fine job of eductating those who would watch about how the history of the universe is so fascinating. Dr Brian
Cox is making some fantastic programming at the moment and I enjoy his way of making very complex (for me) theory's more understandable for the average guy (me again).

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That's because Brian Cox is a boss.

[eldargal]

The evidence against Richard III is highly circumstantial, not to mention that we don't even know for sure they were murdered and mortality among children was still very high.

I don't think a state funeral would be necessary (though I wouldn't object personally) and there is no reason why the re-interment couldn't be a small joint church thing, those aren't completely unknown.

[Kirsten]

Heresy at its greatest. David Attenborough has been educating the world about the natural world for well over half a decade.

Funny he looks much older...

The indignant Richard III society were entertaining, seems like a rubbish club

[Psychosplodge]

Having lived with someone who studied psychology and seeing what it involved (most half modules could be completed by flicking through a couple of books and writing 1200 words...) I'll never take the BA version seriously.

I don't like Brian Cox.

[Deadlift]

Funny he looks much older

Yeah I edited it now. I look rather silly now don't I :)

[Wolfshade]

I agree regarding the evidence around his involvement but you know these conspiracy theorists.

The re-interment doesn't pose any issues, it is the whole funeral that would, if he were to have one that would cause the head ache.

I am not sure what the point would be to be honest though. With the Romanovs there was in some areas at least a snese of national guilt which this helped attone for. Similiarly, with other interments of dead royalty, but this is over half a millenium ago.

[eldargal]

Yep but he is still an ex-monarch so something fitting has to be done.

[Psychosplodge]

With the Romanovs there was in some areas at least a snese of national guilt which this helped attone for. Similiarly, with other interments of dead royalty, but this is over half a millenium ago.

Did they have any close enough surviving descendants to compare DNA with, or did the reds get them all?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Got to agree with David Attenborough, he kicks serious butt and now Patrick Moore is gone he is the last thing I bother with when it comes to the Big Bad Corporation. As for me, I'm an arachnologist (unappreciated outcasts that we are.)

P.s. Archaeologists are just people that can't afford to buy a TARDIS.

[eldargal]

Did they have any close enough surviving descendants to compare DNA with, or did the reds get them all?

Lots. The Duke of Edinburgh for one. They were canonised and officially rehabilitated yet the Russian government didn't bother returning all the property they stole from them, funny that.

[Wolfshade]

Yep but he is still an ex-monarch so something fitting has to be done.

I think so, but look what happend to Alfred et al. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19487335


Did they have any close enough surviving descendants to compare DNA with, or did the reds get them all?

Prince Nikolay Romanov was there http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/133725.stm

[Psychosplodge]

Lots. The Duke of Edinburgh for one. They were canonised and officially rehabilitated yet the Russian government didn't bother returning all the property they stole from them, funny that.

Fascinating.

[Gotthammer]

EG's just cranky 'cause they won't let her move in to the Alexander Palace ;)

[Wolfshade]

EG's just cranky 'cause they won't let her move in to the Alexander Palace ;)

She could move to the Alexander Stadium...

[eldargal]

EG's just cranky 'cause they won't let her move in to the Alexander Palace ;)

I'd prefer the Oranienbaum, less pretentious.:p

[imperialpower]

Even though he is some what villanised Richard III was the last monarch to fall in battle and deserves to be burried like a king.

[Wolfshade]

Even though he is some what villanised Richard III was the last monarch to fall in battle and deserves to be burried like a king.

The others weren't so clumsy...

[SotonShades]

I think it would be apt if they reinterred him at Westminster with the skellington of a horse.

Zoologists wish they were half as cool as archaeologists.

Nuts to that, he is OURS! (You may note I'm from just down the road... actually almost exactly half way between where he died and where he was buried.)

It's also part of English Law that exhumed remains must be reburied as close as possible to their original resting place at an appropriate venue and Leicester Cathedral is just round the corner from Grey Friars.

Interesting fact; I have ancestors that were generals in his army at the Battle Of Bosworth. And generals on the opposing side. And the Stanleys.

[imperialpower]

The others weren't so clumsy...

Wow that's bad:)

[Deadlift]

He will be reinterred at Leicester cathedral :)

[Wolfshade]

Looking at it, English monarchs are quite safe, Richard died 1483, you have to go back to 1066 for the last time an English King died in battle on English soil.

The last British monarch to fight was George II in 1743

[Psychosplodge]

Nuts to that, he is OURS! (You may note I'm from just down the road... actually almost exactly half way between where he died and where he was buried.)

It's also part of English Law that exhumed remains must be reburied as close as possible to their original resting place at an appropriate venue and Leicester Cathedral is just round the corner from Grey Friars.

Interesting fact; I have ancestors that were generals in his army at the Battle Of Bosworth. And generals on the opposing side. And the Stanleys.
How many generals does one King need?

[Gotthammer]

Seems Richard could have done with more >_>

[SotonShades]

How many generals does one King need?

Well, generals as in generic leaders of men. Either way, as many as he can summon to his cause!

[Wildeybeast]

Nuts to that, he is OURS! (You may note I'm from just down the road... actually almost exactly half way between where he died and where he was buried.)

It's also part of English Law that exhumed remains must be reburied as close as possible to their original resting place at an appropriate venue and Leicester Cathedral is just round the corner from Grey Friars.

Interesting fact; I have ancestors that were generals in his army at the Battle Of Bosworth. And generals on the opposing side. And the Stanleys.

Your cathedral sucks. Any cathedral which is hosting an evening of Ed Miliband impressions is not a fit resting place for the last Plantagenet king.

[SotonShades]

Your cathedral sucks. Any cathedral which is hosting an evening of Ed Miliband impressions is not a fit resting place for the last Plantagenet king.

Are they not just showing clips of beaker from the Muppets?

[Psychosplodge]

Your cathedral sucks. Any cathedral which is hosting an evening of Ed Miliband impressions is not a fit resting place for the last Plantagenet king.

This.
And he requested to be buried in York apparently.

[Deadlift]

Just watched the program titled "Richard III, King in the car park" whilst very very interesting, I was struck just by how bonkers the woman was whom instigated and raised the funds for the dig. This person had "feelings" that Richard was buried in the car park, and even stated he would be found under an R which had been painted in a particular spot for a reserved bay. Thing is, she was bloody right. So while I found her constant out pouring of emotion and tears for a man who died in the 1480s a bit dramatic, the crazy lady seemed to know her stuff.
The program also introduced us to a Canadian chap who was the living relative of Richard III, who kind of looked like him too. The icing on the cake was the presenter, for those who have seen the BBCs children's show called "Horrible History's", well the guy that plays Death and sings the "stupid death" song. It was him, sporting a cool afro.

Anyway worth catching it on the Internet if your at all interested. Be warned the woman is without doubt, a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

[Wolfshade]

According to the Beeb he has be buried in Leicester cathedral. At least St. Martin's would have been about during his time so it should be at least notionally familiar to him, though as he is dead I doubt that he is terribly concerned.

[Psychosplodge]

That's only because we're applying modern standards to it. He was probably quite familiar with York Minster...

[eldargal]

Leicester Cathedral is good enough, though York or Westminster would be better.:p

That mad woman would be Philippa Langley.

[Wolfshade]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65700000/jpg/_65700812_87f13eaf-9ab0-4dc0-89ed-9db0af3eaebd.jpg

"I've been expecting you"

He does look like he has some rather feminine features, not terribly sinister.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380

[eldargal]

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/11212_532510803436520_1325707085_n.jpg

[Wolfshade]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/cf07985f73474e532ac2fe6c8ea058d4/tumblr_mhpvh28acR1qks2j1o1_500.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Just watched the program titled "Richard III, King in the car park" whilst very very interesting, I was struck just by how bonkers the woman was whom instigated and raised the funds for the dig. This person had "feelings" that Richard was buried in the car park, and even stated he would be found under an R which had been painted in a particular spot for a reserved bay. Thing is, she was bloody right. So while I found her constant out pouring of emotion and tears for a man who died in the 1480s a bit dramatic, the crazy lady seemed to know her stuff.
The program also introduced us to a Canadian chap who was the living relative of Richard III, who kind of looked like him too. The icing on the cake was the presenter, for those who have seen the BBCs children's show called "Horrible History's", well the guy that plays Death and sings the "stupid death" song. It was him, sporting a cool afro.

Anyway worth catching it on the Internet if your at all interested. Be warned the woman is without doubt, a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

I kept expecting the presenter to pick up the skull and shout 'Think you're bigger than me???'

If you don't know what I'm on about, look up Horrible Histories Caligula....

And I'll just leave this here.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4x0K2Y7kPw

[eldargal]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/cf07985f73474e532ac2fe6c8ea058d4/tumblr_mhpvh28acR1qks2j1o1_500.jpg
To be fair it took 528 years to find him.

[Wolfshade]

Aren't Sparticus' remains still outstanding?

[eldargal]

Yep but no one cares, he was a git.

[Wolfshade]

Arthur I, Duke of Brittiany?
9th Spanish Legion (maybe this is why the 9th legion has vanished :o)

[Wildeybeast]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65700000/jpg/_65700812_87f13eaf-9ab0-4dc0-89ed-9db0af3eaebd.jpg

"I've been expecting you"

He does look like he has some rather feminine features, not terribly sinister.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380

Is it just me or does that look like someone has basically made a 3D model of his portrait? I don;t find that terribly convincing.



I kept expecting the presenter to pick up the skull and shout 'Think you're bigger than me???'

If you don't know what I'm on about, look up Horrible Histories Caligula....

And I'll just leave this here.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4x0K2Y7kPw

Watching the kids trying to keep up with that one is great fun. I also love this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SRoRy8ypvk

[Mr Mystery]

He could be mistaken for Tyrone from Corrie...

[MarneusCalgar]

Yesterday when I heard it on the radio news here in Spain I couldn´t believe it...

A king buried and found into a parking?

Well, here in Spain we have the Escorial, a big Cathedral where all kings have been buried since 1600...

And being England´s kings and queens older and longer than ours, I thought this would never happen there

[Mr Mystery]

To be fair, it was a church when they buried him!

[Wildeybeast]

Yesterday when I heard it on the radio news here in Spain I couldn´t believe it...

A king buried and found into a parking?

Well, here in Spain we have the Escorial, a big Cathedral where all kings have been buried since 1600...

And being England´s kings and queens older and longer than ours, I thought this would never happen there

Not sure if that is a joke or not. Assuming it isn't our monarchs are usually buried with more decorum, many of them at Westminster Abbey right back to Edward the Confessor in 1066. Given Richard died in battle at the hand of his foe, the treatment of his corpse was less than respectful. It would seem that at some stage he was buried at Greyfriars monastery which was later destroyed in the dissolution of the monasteries (by the son of Richard's enemy to rub extra salt into the wound). There were various buildings on the site following that and the Victorian development all but obliterated the archaeological remains of the monastery. Richard seem to have lain undisturbed due to the area of his burial having been a succession of gardens, yards and carp parks.

[Necron2.0]

He does look like he has some rather feminine features, not terribly sinister.

:eek:

Assuming that you are a male of the species, have you been on a date ... like ... EVER!!!!

:D

[White Tiger88]

Lots. The Duke of Edinburgh for one. They were canonised and officially rehabilitated yet the Russian government didn't bother returning all the property they stole from them, funny that.

Ahahaha Russians.....Return something......you so funny!

[eldargal]

Is it just me or does that look like someone has basically made a 3D model of his portrait? I don;t find that terribly convincing.
Well that's because the 3D portrait was built up over his skull, the resemblance to the portraits is just another sign they have the right body.:p Which we don't need as the DNA tests were quite conclusive and conducted at several different labs.

[Wolfshade]

Necron: 1 or 2
MarneusCalgar: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19487335

[Necron2.0]

Necron: 1 or 2

Hmm. Well maybe women are different on your side, but my experience has been that some of the most sinister things come wrapped in the prettiest packages - that would be women and children. I'm fairly sure that is nature's design ... so you do not realized how SCREWED you are until it's far too late. ;)

That's also why I'm convinced Nature actually is a mother.

[Wolfshade]

What I was meaning was that there are very few contempory portraits from Richard III and with Shakespears portrail he was seen as quite a sinister person, and so some of the paintings had been altered to reflect this dislike of him.
look at Kevin Spacy's portrayl of him:
http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/91f72e14-a3ae-11e0-9f5c-00144feabdc0.img

[Psychosplodge]

Is that Kaiser Soze?

[Wolfshade]

Or his alter ego

[alshrive]

He should stay in Leicester (not just because my boss is from York and has sworn that he will defenestrate himself if the body is reburied in good old Leics!). Also have the council thought about charging him for overstaying in the car park?

[Gotthammer]

via Perry Miniatures:


To celebrate the authentication of Richard III's remains in Leicester we present 'Richard III....the return of the King', a fairly impromptu model of himself bursting through the tarmac of a car park. It isn't quite finished and we will probably put in the range if there is enough interest.........


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E5Io-4lCT-g/URJLK0pJppI/AAAAAAAAiY0/shcnzL1Ul5c/s1600/Return_of_the_king.jpg

[Wolfshade]

Most excellent

[Psychosplodge]

It is a nice model...

[Wolfshade]

Sourced from the internet,a joke (I hope)

I don't believe that they recovered DNA from Richard III's skull, after all it wasn't invented till the 20th Century

[Wildeybeast]

What I was meaning was that there are very few contempory portraits from Richard III and with Shakespears portrail he was seen as quite a sinister person, and so some of the paintings had been altered to reflect this dislike of him.
look at Kevin Spacy's portrayl of him:
http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/91f72e14-a3ae-11e0-9f5c-00144feabdc0.img

IIRC there weren't any that he actually posed for, so it's debatable how realistic the portraits actually are.

[Wolfshade]

IIRC there weren't any that he actually posed for, so it's debatable how realistic the portraits actually are.

Yes exactly, and being on the losing side most imageries of him you would imagine would be destroyed.

[eldargal]

IIRC there weren't any that he actually posed for, so it's debatable how realistic the portraits actually are.
Some portraits of him were painted posthumously by artists who had probably met him, and given the similarity between the skull reconstruction it seems they got it right.

[White Tiger88]

Some portraits of him were painted posthumously by artists who had probably met him, and given the similarity between the skull reconstruction it seems they got it right.

A few bottles of wine and anything will look "right"....

[eldargal]

Ninja'd by Gotthammer two days ago...

[Wolfshade]

The Perry twins are apparently releasing this:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=163862&d=1360312402
'Return of the King'

looks familiar...

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?29563-Hello-King-Richard-III&p=282217&viewfull=1#post282217

[eldargal]

Bah, missed Gotts post.:(

[Wolfshade]

Bah, missed Gotts post.:(

Huzzah!

But does it count as a Grail Reliquae?

[Wolfshade]

Design for his tomb revealed:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65844000/jpg/_65844946_tomb1.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21427369

I quite like this, it seems appropriate, though I cannot recall the inside of the cathedral at the moment so I am unsure how that would fit in.

[Psychosplodge]

Think it'd probably look better in York...

[Wolfshade]

Think it'd probably look better in York...

Psh! The minister is far too far away and in the wrong Archbishopric.

[Psychosplodge]

The surroundings are more appropriate and it's more in lone with the wishes of the deceased, apart from popping his clogs there what's her got to do with Leicester? If they aren't planting him in Westminster then York's the obvious choice.

[Wolfshade]

The surroundings are more appropriate and it's more in lone with the wishes of the deceased, apart from popping his clogs there what's her got to do with Leicester? If they aren't planting him in Westminster then York's the obvious choice.

Aside from the law...

[Psychosplodge]

Aside from the law...
It's a silly law.

[Wildeybeast]

Aside from the law...

He's a king. The law doesn't apply to him, he can be buried wherever he bloody well likes. Also, where the hell is the sculpture of him in full battle regalia? What sort of tomb of a king doesn't have a sculpt of him on the top? Once again, Leicester proving just how lame it is.

[Wolfshade]

He's a king. The law doesn't apply to him, he can be buried wherever he bloody well likes. Also, where the hell is the sculpture of him in full battle regalia? What sort of tomb of a king doesn't have a sculpt of him on the top? Once again, Leicester proving just how lame it is.

Given one of my exs is from their I can cite other reasons for it's lameosity.

[Psychosplodge]

Given one of my exs is from their I can cite other reasons for it's lameosity.

One of mine went to live there... It sounds increasingly lame.

[Wildeybeast]

It think Soton is the only redeeming feature Leicester has. Definitely not a suitable resting place for the last of the Plantaganets.

[SotonShades]

It think Soton is the only redeeming feature Leicester has. Definitely not a suitable resting place for the last of the Plantaganets.

Walkers Crisps (Lays chips for you international types) and Melton Mowbray Pork Pies... erm... Gary Lineker?... Everards, both for their ales and as a pub company. That is about it though.

Still, Old Rich should stay here. His feet are still somewhere in the Soar after all!


Oh and Brucciani's. Unless you have been here, you won't know.

[Wildeybeast]

I'll give you Walkers, Lineker is take or leave it and unless I'm much mistaken Melton Mowbray pork pies are from Melton Mowbray, not Leicester (though I'll grant you not far away). You can keep your Everards nonsense, I'll have me a nice pint of Pedigree thanks.

[Wolfshade]

I have a pint of Everards in the cupboard.

[Deadlift]

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/joenortonjones/09a2eca557b5cdf17c7c587f6f9807e9.jpg

Anyone else noticed Richard III had dog ears ?

[White Tiger88]

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/joenortonjones/09a2eca557b5cdf17c7c587f6f9807e9.jpg

Anyone else noticed Richard III had dog ears ?

Hey its snoopy!

[Wildeybeast]

Watch it Frenchie, that's our king (former) you're dissing! :p

[Deadlift]

Watch it Frenchie, that's our king (former) you're dissing! :p

I think from his portrait he looks like a proper Dick.

[Wolfshade]

I think from his portrait he looks like a proper Dick.
After all my horse puns yesterday I suppose I can't criticise

[Wildeybeast]

King Rich gets illustrated (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21382096).