Warriors of Chaos....

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

So got the book, and I've managed to have a quick look through, and here are my initial impressions (and as such are subject to change!)

First up, it seems to follow the same curve as the other 8th Edition books. It has it's toys, but nothing has so far screamed 'must have'.

Eye of the Gods table is still there, but somewhat modified. Magic is solid, and I am pleased to say Gateway no longer removes entire units, which in the day of the horde formation I consider a change for the better.

Special Characters have been revised a bit rules wise. Archaon is utter filth, but 580 points. Festus is much improved (Level 2, grants poisoned attacks and 5+ regen on his unit, plus his potions do more. Throgg still makes Trolls core, and is otherwise unchanged.

Forsaken? Yeah they got good! Core choice, frenzy, D3 attacks, immune to psychology, and M6. Table for combat, ranging from always strike last up to Killing Blow. Can also be marked, giving boons unique to them. Oh and they now have Chaos Armour. 19 points a pop which feels about right.

Marauders have been fixed by simply raising their points. Now 6 points nude.

Also, Warshrine is much changed. It affects how you roll on Eye of the Gods, but granting rolls is now a bound spell. Much tastier in combat, and can be a mount for a character.

So, that's what I've absorbed!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I got the chance to look at it last week, and the ruleset seems quite nice.

Lords and Heroes have increased and decreased, units have been slightly tweaked. However, the book does seem kinda bland.

[eldargal]

I'm so relieved the trend towards well balanced army books seem to be continuing. WoC 7th ed was one of the books that broke the previous edition.

Is the war shrine a mount for any character or just sorcerers? Seems ike an odd choice of mount for a killy character.

[Mr Mystery]

Any so far as I can see!

And I agree about the power level. All the beardy combos have been reined in or removed altogether. No more infernal puppet or dark tongue thingy. Fewer ways to manipulate Eye of the Gods. Even Chosen are tempered, as apart from their initial roll, only their champion now benefits from further rolls.

Slaughterbrute is....interesting. Not as Killy as Infirst imagined, but well pointed all things considered!

Blasted Standard is interesting... 25 points. Every time the unit is targeted by a ranged spell, on a 2+ the S is halved. But on a 1, it's doubled....

[Fizzybubela]

I still need to order my copy. :(

[eldargal]

It also has some nice art by the looks of it:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2990126a_1xl.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The thing I like about that is the fact that it shows each marked Lord, as well as an unmarked one.

And they're all models that are older than me.

[Wildeybeast]

However, the book does seem kinda bland.

Why do you say bland? What is missing that would make it not bland in your view?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

There's nothing that jumps up at me and says "PICK ME, I'M AWESOME"

And quite frankly, I'm not a fan of a lot of the new stuff, with the exception of Dragon Ogres, Mutalith, Vilitch (when I remove that shoulder spike), and the Chaos Lord.

(I include the Warshrine wave with that)


Plus, as an addendum, I am a Lord of the Night. :p (that plastic Chaos Lord is totally becoming a Vampire Lord)

[Wildeybeast]

I guessed that was what you meant. I see all the new books being like that though. In a well balanced book there shouldn't be anything which is an auto pick or which you would never select. Everything should be perfectly feasible in any army and unit selection should be based on tactics, models or fluff, not on poor book design. Or at least that is my view.

[Fizzybubela]

It also has some nice art by the looks of it:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2990126a_1xl.jpg

I want this on my wall. :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah, but with Vampires, it's not that I have to take a Vampire Lord, I WANT to take a Vampire Lord. They have amazing rules, and can go toe-to-toe against almost any character.

They're so versatile and flexible, sure they can be a little expensive, but generally they will eat anything they touch.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

The new toys definitely compete strongly, but not to the detriment of the rest of the army.

Notably, it seems the treacherous nature of Chaos is now represented nicely. It doesn't make the army unpredictable, but enough to tempt the more gamble minded player who will take the risk of a big reward at the price of potential downfall!

[Chronowraith]

At a first glance I think this book is wonderfully balanced. They fixed all of my gripes with the book on both ends of the spectrum (playing the army and playing against the army).

Unit-wise I really love the Daemon Prince (unbreakable? Sweet!), new Chaos Chariots (Core Chariots that got better and cheaper!), the Chimera (finally something that can reliably protect flanks without taking a unit of Knights), and the skullcrushers(yes, they lost T5, but they gained a wound and are still 1+AS)

I did notice a weird oddity... So Chaos Ogres finally cause impact hits but Dragon Ogres don't? Seems weird given that the Dragon Ogres would probably have more speed behind them as well as more mass (I know, I know... I"m trying to apply logic to Warhammer... it's like applying physics to Star Wars).

[Mr Mystery]

Also..... Mark of Undivided is no more...

[Chronowraith]

Truthfully, I always thought Mark of Chaos Undivided was a weird concept. In the modern fluff only four gods are ever mentioned and we are constantly reminded about their inherent jealousy over their pawns (and their hatred of each other). So if a champion is marked by Chaos wouldn't it stand to reason that it would be one of the four Chaos gods marking the individual ? Again, trying to reason Chaos seems comical.

The absence of any mark would essentially be "Chaos Undivided" because if they are marked they are divided into the four factions that surround the four chaos gods.

[Mr Mystery]

Hehehe!

And my list of daftness is near complete! Throgg, 18 Trolls, and 18 Chariots.... All in 3,000 points.
Oh, and 3 Dragon Ogres, because I can.

Trolololololol!

[YourSwordisMine]

Got my army book this morning. I really like it.

My Warriors got cheaper!

I'm glad they raised the points on Marauders. I was getting tired of only seeing Marauders on the table... Though, we're still going to see troll armies...

The really good thing about this army book is that I am not going to have to redo any of the models in my army. That alone makes me happy.

I just need to finish my Chaos Ogres now...

[Chronowraith]

Warriors got cheaper but overall, I find my warrior blocks got more expensive due to the changes in how you purchase Marks. The old way favored buying large units to get a discount while the new cost is more consistent.

I do have to say this is the first 8th edition book where I felt that GW picked some really weird magic items to include. Really, the only Magic armor is the Helm?

So far I haven't come up with a list that makes me happy but it has caused me to take my Warriors of Chaos models out of my "To Ebay" box and actually contemplate lists.

On a more comical note, warhound placement drops just got some nice perks. Vanguard! I was always frustrated before at how easy it was to panic them if I lost the first turn and have them potentially panic other units nearby. Now that shouldn't happen. Also, warhound suicide squads to slow down enemy monsters and take a couple wounds off here and there (5 warhounds with vanguard and poison for less than 50 points!). I actually feel I want more warhounds now!

[Mr Mystery]

Not sure Chaos really need magic armour. Chaos Armour is pretty tasty as is, and all part of the nude character!

The more familiar I become with it, the more impressed I am. Still yet to spot a 'must-have' unit. Your Core has a decent selection, and they all have equal appeal. Warriors for flexibility, Marauders for bulk, Forsaken for sheer aggression, Chariots for clinical punch, hounds and Marauder Horse for early aggro and interdiction duty.

And as a big fan of anything monstrous, there is a lot to choose from! Excellent variety of toys through out, and only Kholek wants for a model (reckon we'll see him soon enough).

Been a while since my last Fantasy army proper, and I am becoming ever more tempted by the silliness I posted earlier!

[RGilbert26]

It also has some nice art by the looks of it:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2990126a_1xl.jpg

Problem i have with this picture, while great it is missing the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut. The second horse is just this guy http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1160123a - whereas it should have been this one http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1710158a - bit of a shame really.

[YourSwordisMine]

and only Kholek wants for a model (reckon we'll see him soon enough).

My hope is for a dual Shaggoth/Kholek plastic kit...

One can dream...

[Chronowraith]

The problem with no magic armor is simple... If I want to take a ward save in other armors on combat characters I'd look at Armor of Destiny/Fortune/etc. For Chaos though... this actually makes my armor save worse... Not a big gripe really but I think of all the Chaos Magic Items in the former book they certainly picked some weird ones to carry over to this book.

I'm loving this book so far. While there are units I simply will never use, it certainly isn't from a rules perspective and rather from a model aesthetic or tactical choice.

[YourSwordisMine]

The problem with no magic armor is simple... If I want to take a ward save in other armors on combat characters I'd look at Armor of Destiny/Fortune/etc. For Chaos though... this actually makes my armor save worse... Not a big gripe really but I think of all the Chaos Magic Items in the former book they certainly picked some weird ones to carry over to this book.

I'm loving this book so far. While there are units I simply will never use, it certainly isn't from a rules perspective and rather from a model aesthetic or tactical choice.

We can still take Magic Items, Weapons and Armor from the Big Book cant we? Still quite a few things there worth taking.

[Chronowraith]

Yes, we can and yes there are many good items in the main book.

I'm just a little perplexed because most of the other 8th edition books kept signature items from their previous editions or items that were at least (mostly) useful. I think the only items I'd take out of the new WoC book are the banners.

Again, the armor one seems a little weird to me as to take most magic armor out of the main book would actually make the character's armor save worse.

Let me also stress (again) that this is a minor gripe... I love the book and wish I had more time to assemble and paint as I'd love to have a huge Chaos army because of this book.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Problem i have with this picture, while great it is missing the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut. The second horse is just this guy http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1160123a - whereas it should have been this one http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1710158a - bit of a shame really.

The Khorne Lord is blurred on the left. :)



My hope is for a dual Shaggoth/Kholek plastic kit...

One can dream...

I hope not, Kholek is MUCH bigger than a normal Shaggoth.

[Brakkart]

I hope not, Kholek is MUCH bigger than a normal Shaggoth.

I think the best hope for a decent Kholek figure would be if Warhammer Forge do a shaggoth figure at the same sort of scale as their Greater Daemons. That or this chap, Shaaroc from Banelegions:

http://banelegions.maelstromgames.co.uk/images/BNB-024_painted_web_01.png

[YourSwordisMine]

I hope not, Kholek is MUCH bigger than a normal Shaggoth.

Well, they both have Large Target... so they could make the new ones the same size... It would make sense...

But then... They did release Throgg in FAILCAST....

And hey, I'm still hoping for plastic Chaos Trolls and Chaos Ogres...

and a pony...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I think the best hope for a decent Kholek figure would be if Warhammer Forge do a shaggoth figure at the same sort of scale as their Greater Daemons. That or this chap, Shaaroc from Banelegions:

http://banelegions.maelstromgames.co.uk/images/BNB-024_painted_web_01.png

Wow, that is nearly spot on get a less reptilian head and you're all set.


Well, they both have Large Target... so they could make the new ones the same size... It would make sense...

But then... They did release Throgg in FAILCAST....

And hey, I'm still hoping for plastic Chaos Trolls and Chaos Ogres...

and a pony...

The fluff whore in me would hate it if they were the same size.

Also Throgg's model is so gorgeous, and I have never had any problems with finecast.

[Mr Mystery]

So I've slept on it. And I think I may press ahead with my all Chariot and Troll army....

[Scorch]

I can't wait to get hold of the book! It sounds amazing! Unfortunately, my regular gaming opponents loathed my old WoC army... I have no idea why though, in those days, I barely took anything other than a couple of blocks of warriors, 2 sorcerers, a unit of knights boosted by a lord. Is this army still viable?
Shame that 2 of my 4 armies have been updated consecutive months... Just Space Wolves to go, and that'll be a full hardback collection! Looks so good on the bookshelf.

And the artwork above is definitely gorgeous.

[Mr Mystery]

The lamer, less taxing combos are gone, but an existing army doesn't suffer any in the new book.


Warriors seem to have been made cheaper too. Oh, and Knights now upgrade to lances and ensorcelled hand weapons.

[Chronowraith]

Warriors went down in price but many of their upgrades went up in points.

A unit of 20 warriors with full command, shields, and mark of tzeentch in the previous book costed 370 points. In the new book it costs the same.

Some combinations may come out cheaper in the new book but, the larger the unit of warriors, the more expensive they will be compared to the new book (since marks are paid for by model).

[TheCastigator]

I have to admit that I was very worried about this book, and am still for demons. Overall, this one continues the success of 8th edition. Like the vampire book, the addition of true core options will allow WoC players to command a variety of competitive lists. I think that the items and powers all seem to have uses. I personally love the idea of a demon prince with the sword of change. Core chariots are awesome, and the variety of monsters in the book is mind boggling, especially with monsters as special choices.

I get why Cruddace gets the hate for Nids and IG, but his last bunch of fantasy books have all been good.

[RGilbert26]

Im planning on doing a 2000pt Throne of Skullks WoC army and as ive never properly done a Fantasy army this should be interesting. Currently thinking of doing at least two units of 15/20 Warriors with two hordes of 30 or 40 Marauders, at least a Khorne Hero on foot and a BSB. Undecided on what the Lord is doing and what else im going to be fielding.

[Mr Mystery]

Could just be my eyes failing me, but although Gaulrach is in the book, and has a model, there are no photos of the two headed git in the book....

Could this mean a forthcoming Chaos Dragon kit? Possibly with the option to make Gaulrach....and perhaps Kholek??

[RGilbert26]

Page 80 and 92.

[Mr Mystery]

Bah.

Ignore my previous post then :p

[Wildeybeast]

I get why Cruddace gets the hate for Nids and IG, but his last bunch of fantasy books have all been good.

I didn't realise this was one of his. Does it feature his trademark 'unit synergy' style? He made a couple of mistakes in the Empire book, but overall it's pretty a solid book. He is improving.

[TheCastigator]

I have been pretty pleased with all the 8th books. I want to see how this one actually plays out. All of they usual combo stacking you find with Cruddace is in the magic lores. Combining spells within lores to take advantage of the attributes, especially in slaanesh. Note how the last slaanesh spell is a HEX that does direct damage, allowing you to cast it in combat. The war shrine is probably the most obvious buff unit, but the book doesn't have a ton of aura stuff outside the chaos lores. I think the undead armies will have a harder time against this list, given how punchy it is, but on the face it seems to line up fairly well against the rest of the 8th ed books.

[Mr Mystery]

Been looking for Galrauch, and the model defo isn't in my copy.

Could this be a slight difference between print and digital?

[Mr Mystery]

First sort-of no brained found!

Daemon Prince, Chaos Armour, Wings and scaled skin. That's a total armour save of 2+! That's a meaty combo right there, before you consider he can take magic and potentially buff himself!

[Xigorth]

Been playing WoC since the 7th Ed book came out. Enjoyed breaking the game with all sorts of silly combos and have really enjoyed the "killy Lord/Hero" concept. It has been a great army and I think the 8th book keeps up.

I never used Demon Princes before, but will now be getting a couple. Mark of Nurgle on top of all the other things (UNBREAKABLE!!) makes him rather nasty.

A crusher star is certainly tempting with a Khorne Lorde and BSB on Juggernaughts. As much as I like Hellcannons, these guys just look like tons of fun. ICs are as good as always. Archaon on foot is nice - means we can take him in 2500 pnt games.

Tzeentch took one to the teeth in terms of casting. Not a fan of Warpflame. I play too many VC armies that have Regenerating Units (whoops - just gave that Varghulf a +1 Regen!!). Nurgle I think is the top Lore with Slaneesh right behind. The good news is I can take Mark of Tzeentch, but a WHFB Main book lore (I think Metal, but I don't have my book as I write this) so I can still take the MoT Warriors with a caster in support.

I do still like Chosen. Chosen star may not be "as good" but it still has significant potential and killing power if built right. Like the idea of turning the Chosen Champion into a Demon Prince before the game even starts :-). For the points a Chimera may be better. On paper, good unit to go after flanks and warmachines.

Chariots in Core is awesome as a points filler if needed (I think GW had too many Chariots on stock and this is there way of clearing inventory...). I was never a huge fan of Marauders, usually I'd watch them get shot to death. Great decoy unit in last edition. Now, I can run dogs, chariots, or Forsaken and end up with better results IMHO.

Overall, I'm happy with the book, its pretty pictures, and the overall Army selection. After the DA book, I am relieved at the significantly improved editing and lack of obvious errors - kudos to the GW Fantasy Team.

[Xigorth]

A lot of good combos in the new book. Started up WoC when the 7th Ed book came out. Great combos there. New book changed up the combos you can run. The powerful units just shifted around the spectrum for the army. Deamon Princes are good Lord choices now and the amount of solid Core, Special, and Rare options increased. Chosen are still a strong unit. >sigh< I now need some Spawns and Deamon Princes for those crazy double 6 and double 1 moments! I will be playing around with this book this weekend.

One good thing - the GW Editors did a better job on the WoC book vs. the DA book. I didn't open it and immediatly find errors...

[Xenith]

And they're all models that are older than me.

How does a twelve year old get to be a mod? :P


The Khorne Lord is blurred on the left. :)

That's a Nurgle dude on a Palanquin.

Maybe it's justice for Khorne having the front cover 2 editions in a row?

Debating buying this. Fantasy has pretty much dried up in my local.

Is it more fun to play than Skaven?