SW - Power weapon VS Power Fists and Plasma Pistol

[Spellscape]

Hi all
I'm building SW army - (yes as my tyranids from OOP metal models) :D) As mainly Tyranid player I really don't have any 1st hand experience with any SM force - so my main concern now Is how to equip my models.
Is power fist better in GH squad or Power weapon? (as I understand in both cases better to equip with MoTW) ?
Is it's true for Blood Claws too?
Almost same for Plasma Pistols - are they worth pay extra on Wolf Guards for GH squads?

[j-orge-287]

Power weapon and plasma pistol enables youto have an extra attack (for a +2 bonus from counter attack) and you can still deal with stuff like terminators-you strike first if they use a PF and you don't allow armour saves.
Power fists are more expensive and strike last but are good if you are facing a monster/vehicle heavy army (new nids spring to mind).
If available pick a thunder hamer or wolf claw even if they are more expensive.

[Spellscape]

I understand that they give bonus attack. Is they worth points or better stick to bolt pistol and PW/power fist? How effective PW and PF in comparison ?

For example is good idea to use Plasma pistol on scouts, Wolf priests, Rune priests?

[Craz]

Now, I've gone with power weapons in my Grey Hunter squads. since a power fist on a 1 attack model is not too great. You're better putting a fist/Thunder Hammer on a Wolf Guard attached to the unit.

[DarkLink]

Neither a power weapon or a power fist is very good on a model with base 1 attack. Plain power weapons in general aren't that intimidating, really.

And plasma pistols are huge ripoffs.

[Confuddled]

Right. Working from the bottom up:

Plasma pistols?
Don’t bother, unless you really like the look of the gun.

Power fists?
Again, just not worth the cost, seeing as how:
a) Grey Hunters just have 1 base attack
b) You can always attach a Wolf Guard with a power fist (cheaper, more attacks) to the squad.

Power weapons?
Maybe. Its not all that expensive, and its very comforting to give the squad something that can carve through other power-armoured troops.


The Mark of the Wulfen is actually the best of the lot, imho.
- Absolute worst case (1/6 of the time), it has no practical effect – you have the same number of attacks.
- On average, though, you’re handing out 4-5 S4 attacks on the charge, which is pretty respectable for a generic Marine (you’re looking at 16-17 S4 attacks from a charging 5-man Grey Hunter pack).

In both cases, however, you’ve still got the option of fielding a Wolf Guard to provide some extra punch.


Ultimately, it really depends on the role you’d expect the Grey Hunter squad to play.


5 Grey Hunters led by a Wolf Guard in a Razorback that’s going to camp out in your table half?
They don’t really need any of the close-combat upgrades.

10 Grey Hunters with a Wolf Standard led by a Wolf Guard Terminator in a Redeemer?
By all means, give the squad a power weapon AND the Mark of the Wulfen!


And yes, the same thing applies to Blood Claws, only more so – I’m increasingly leaning in favour of Grey Hunters, even for shock assaults.

[Spellscape]

But why PW and not Powerfist?

[Confuddled]

Because

1) There really is no good reason to spend the points for a single S8 power fist attack. With a power weapon, at least you get the +1 attack for having 2 close-combat weapons.


2) If you really want those S8 attacks, you might as well attach a Wolf Guard to the squad – a Wolf Guard with a power fist is actually cheaper than a Grey Hunter with a power fist!

(Same thing applies to a Wolf Guard with a power weapon, of course, but you might as well give the Wolf Guard a fist – the Grey Hunters can generally provide enough S4 I4 attacks on their own…)

[Spellscape]

Thank you for answers
Can you advice on optimal Wolf Guard wargear with PF and PW for such squad of GH?

[Kaney]

But why PW and not Powerfist?

People sit on both sides of the fence with this. Personally i would much rather take a PF than a PW because a powerfist fullfills a role that CANT be dealt with effectively by anything else in the unit (MoTW ok, maybe ;-) ) while a PW does not. Plenty of basic wounds can deal with a termie but cant deal with that dread or wraithlord.

[Spellscape]

Maybe GH unit would benefit from having PW on Unit and PF on the attached Wolf Guad?(for example)

But maybe better to have 2nd free melta/plasma gun in squad than take PF/PW?

[Confuddled]

a powerfist fullfills a role that CANT be dealt with effectively by anything else in the unit

True that, especially for Codex Marines.

On the other hand, you’re also paying a premium for, well, the insurance of covering all your bases.

Also, with Grey Hunters, you always have the option of attaching a Wolf Guard with a power fist… ;)




Thank you for answers
Can you advice on optimal Wolf Guard wargear with PF and PW for such squad of GH?
You’re welcome!

And it really depends on what role you see those Grey Hunters playing. In other words, what’s the rest of the list look like?


For instance…


Generic support unit in a Razorback?
5 Grey Hunters, a flamer or melta and a Wolf Guard with your choice of equipment (power weapon or combi-weapon+power fist).

They’re just there to back up the rest of your army, hang on to objectives and generally lend a hand where needed.


Dedicated fire-support unit?
10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma or melta guns, a Rhino.
You’re looking to optimise your shooting – close-combat upgrades are nice but hardly essential since you’re going to be shooting out of a Rhino in most cases.

Add a power weapon or power fist if you want, but its not really necessary.


Dedicated assault unit?
10 Grey Hunters, 2 special weapons of your choice, Wolf Standard, power weapon, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Guard Terminator with chain fist, Land Raider Redeemer

Self-explanatory, really – bucketload of attacks with the option to re-roll all 1s, pretty decent in close combat to boot.


Mix and match to taste.

[Spellscape]

here is my thread on SW army http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=2970
and here it is - can someone give advice on use PW in this list ? Also I have approx 100 pts to spare - I'd like to use WG but now I'm lost with equipment.

Rune priest Runic Armor, Chooser of the Slain 130 pts

Wolf Scouts 5 (Melta + PW+ Melta bombs+MoTW) 125

Grey Hunters 10 (2 melta +PW+ MoTW) Rhino 215

Grey Hunters 10 (2 Plasma Gun +PW+ MoTW) Rhino 220

Long Fangs 5+Leader (3 Missle Launcher + 2 Lascannon) Razorback 210 pts

That's 900 pts - I'm lost what to add/change.
I need help from Powerful wolf lords :-)

[Kaney]

HF/MM Land Speeder and fiddle about with wolf standards and upping those PWs to PFs on ur GHers unit. ( U cant get all PFs and standards so make some decisions on what u think is best).

Another idea is to add the saga of the beast slayer to ur rune priest and give him living lightning, for all those MCs and walkers ( nids have plenty of MCs ).

[Spellscape]

HF/MM Land Speeder and fiddle about with wolf standards and upping those PWs to PFs on ur GHers unit. ( U cant get all PFs and standards so make some decisions on what u think is best)
that's the idea - I'd like to hear all opinions on that from more experienced players and than choose my way

[pchappel]

:-) I usually run at least 3 Grey Hunter squads, 2 in Razorbacks... All have the MotW, plasma pistol and then either the power weapon or the power fist... I usually attach a Wolf Guard with the opposite type of weapon (frost blade or power fist). Gives me great all around units and since I tend to face a lot of other more heavily armored forces, seems to work out quite well... So, power weapon or power fist? Yes, both please :-)

[RocketRollRebel]

Meh going with anything besides MoTW seems like a bit much. I'd save the fist for the optional WG. 1 P-Fist attack isn't really gonna cut it in most situations so I would just save the points. Plasma Pistols are way over priced but if you want to take one then I suggest it only be with a plain CCW or a PW. PF and Plasma Pistol combos make baby Jesus cry. Especially when you overheat and die that one opportunity the whole game that you have to fire the thing. Combi-weps (not sure if sw can have them) are a cheaper and better choice.

...man I'm cynical when I drink haha. apologies my man:o

[Spellscape]

I'm little confused - can model with MoTW have PW or PF?

[RocketRollRebel]

I'm little confused - can model with MoTW have PW or PF?

I guess you could but you cant use the PW or PF if you have MoTW so it would be a bit of a waste since MoTW isnt something that your pup can choose to turn on and off at will.

[pchappel]

:-) Legally, yes, MotW and "whatever" would be legal, but since MotW overrides the other tules, sort of pointless...

On the Plasma weapons... I suppose I have played games where my Hunters fire them once, or not at all, but far more often I find myself using them more often to bypass armor saves for heavier armored targets, or to take the extra shot at light armor (transports especially). I really like the small units to be totally self sufficient, and able to support each other if needed, but by and large, they can roll out, take and hold an objective, whatever is across the table...

The Wolf Guard get the combi weapons, so I have one in most units, and with counter attack, my lads are almost always getting 2-3 attacks each... I find myself rapid firing at times and daring them to attack, counting on the counter attack to hit them back hard as they try to pry me out of cover...

[Spellscape]

I'm already working on combo weapons (combi melta) for my WG.
As for MoTW - this was my mistake - I didn't read rule to the end :(

Can someone give examples of most commonly used/ efficient wargear setups on WG (terminators and power armored)

[pchappel]

I don't know if they're the most effecient, but I run:

Powered Armor:
Combi weapon, whichever, usually something not in the squad he is running with though Melta is common with Scouts, and Flamer more common with my "assault force" to pry lighter troops off of objectives or cover. Paired witha Frost Blade or Power Fist mostly... Though the Combi Melta/MotW combo was pretty effective, though to be fair I rolled a lot of 5's and 6's for the number of attacks for him...

TDA:
:-) Well, other folks might be able to answer this better... I field one with Wolf claws, one FB/SB and one with the SB/PW/Cyclone usually... The bulk of my Guard squad is detailed out and attached to the other squads...