Beasts of War Allies cheese - Denying your own units

[JMichael]

This is pretty incredible, funny, and cheesey!
http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/cheese-hunters-allies-convenience-super-cheese/

To recap their video.

rulebook p112 states that Allies of Convenience are treated as enemy units that cannot be targeted, charged, etc.

Then on p123 - Controlling Objectives 1st paragraph (bold)
You control an objective if there is one model from one of your scoring units and no models from enemy denial units within 3".

This means that your Allies of Convenience are Denial units to your own Primary Detachment!

This is also touched on p112 under Desperate Allies where is specifies that Desperate Allies are just like Allies of Convenience but are non-scoring and non-denial. Perhaps suggesting that Desperate Allies are.


In addition the Purge the Alien mission states you receive 1 Victory Point for each 'enemy' unit completely destroyed.
So when you opponent kills your Allied unit you each receive 1VP.

What do you guys think?
Miswording? Should units from Allies of Convenience be Denial units to your own army?

Personally I think it is a bit bunk and would benefit from an FAQ (perhaps a separate FAQ just to clear up the many Allies issues and cheese).

In the second half of the video they show a situation where your own Allies of Convenience or Desperate Allies may have to fight each other in Assault (engaging via pile moves, and thus not charging).

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I've noted that before. It's kinda funny, though no one actually plays it that way. Everyone just assumes allies obviously always score for you.

[Nabterayl]

I'm not convinced the denial units thing is good rules lawyering. Page 112 says, "Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units," and goes on to distinguish between allies of convenience and enemy units:


However, if a psychic power, scattering Blast weapon or other ability that affects an area hits some of these Allies of Convenience, they will be affected along with any friendly or enemy units.

In other words, my enemies are not the same as my units' enemies. The rules distinguish between the two. So when page 123 says, "You control an objective if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units, and no models from enemy denial units, within 3" of it," whose enemies are we talking about - mine, or my units'?

I think the answer has to be mine (i.e., the player's). Since the rule says "your" scoring units (i.e., the player's), it's most natural to assume that the enemies referred to are the player's as well.

As for piling in against your own units and potentially attacking them, that I agree with.

[Daemonette666]

Interesting points in the video.

I have a few questions though. On page 112 under Desperate allies, it says that in a Desperate alliance unit from the Allied detachment are non-scoring, and non denial units. Does this mean that Allies of convenience are scoring and denial units? If they are, who are they scoring for - you or your enemy? If they deny it to you, do they also deny it to the enemy as well?

The whole thing with the enemy piling into your primary detachment troops is nasty. It makes it easier for the Nurgle Epedemius cheese trick to work though. Just make sure you keep your allies away from Epedemius, as they might kill him off, and run it all for you. Though a majority Nurgle marked Daemon army with Ork allies would be a crazy thing to see.

[dreadnoughtguy]

Can we now all agree that GW needs to make tighter rules. This is just stupid.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

About 5% of this stuff is badly written rules, and 95% people trying to pull a fast one or making up the most ridiculous interpretations they can, and then blaming the writers.

[Lord Krungharr]

After listening and reading these arguments, I would rule that the Allies of Convenience, since they are technically enemy units, can deny objectives to the Primary Detachment scoring units, and vice versa. However, the Troops within the Allied Detachment are still Troops within my army, and therefore they can score objectives on their own (assuming no other denial units in range). That's why Desperate Allies are clarified to be non-scoring and non-denial units.

Looks like both players should be getting a Victory Point for when my Imperial Guard Allies get wiped off the table too in Purge the Alien. That's comforting!