Films and expectations....

[Mr Mystery]

How do!

Good lord, it's a thread that's not about prices. Fancy that!

But it is kind of a whinge of sorts, kind-of-ish.

You see, this has been triggered by my other thread about Battleship, where I reccommend a film which has been otherwise slated as nothing but good fun.

And it's film reviews, or perhaps, the reviewers I want to discuss....

In short? Are professional film reviewers simply up themselves? I mean right now, we're in January, which means cinema wise the hard, lean earnest weeks of 'look at me I want an Oscar' left right and centre, and precious little thought given to 'ah sod it, it put a grin on my face'.

Now there is of course room for a whole gamut of film styles out there (except Boll. There is no excuse for Boll) but when it comes to reviews, people get so bloody snooty.

Case in point? Transformers. These are a series of films about 80' tall alien robots and their ongoing war with a supporting case of humans, and Megan Fox's norks and the other girls lovely bum. It is there to please. Not to be Oscar fodder, but to give everyone a cinematic thrill in a way the Telly, Stage and Print mediums simply cannot compete with. Yes the dialogue is shonky, yes the plots are often quite wobbly...but then that's not why I'm wanting to see them. I want to see those 80' tall alien robots knocking seven bells out of each other, with a side order of Megan Fox's knockers wobbling about all over the shop in slow motion (sorry EG, but it's true!) and that is exactly what I got. It's a competent piece of entertainment. So why the knocking of it?

Ditto Battleship. To be fair, I picked this up last night because it was £5, and thought why not. Didn't expect a great deal, but again what I watched was a competent piece of entertainment that point blank refused to take itself seriously. Not an earnest, hand wringing moment of introspection, because lets face it this was all about big ships blowing up and aliens get squished, and a moment of moralising would have scuppered it!

These sorts of films don't pretend to be anything else. Just like the Marvel films (although positively shining examples of their genre) they are what they say on the tin. If they tried to punch above their weight they'd ruin themselves. So why are they never judged as such? What makes film pundits slate them because they aren't Citizen Kane, or It's a Wonderful Life?

I mean, I cannot stand Jennifer Aniston. I consider her the single most one dimensional actress I have ever seen, and as such I avoid her work like the plague. I may question the need for a big budget RomCom when it can be done just as sickeningly sweetly on the Telly, but hey, those sorts of films aren't my bag at all, so I simply won't watch them. Doesn't mean the films themselves are incompetently shot, plotted and acted piles of drivel (though I understand Sex in the City 2 is indeed all three).

Other things that get my goat are comparissons to genre classics. Take the Kurt Russell version of 'The Thing'. That will never, EVER be topped in my opinion. It just does everything right, and the effects are awesome (if a little ropey here and there, but hey! Budget!). Now inexplicable remakes/prequels aside.... Just because a genre has a top player (and it inevitably will) doesn't mean it should never be tackled in another way. But please, don't just compare it to the Daddy Film. That doesn't inform me a great deal. For example, Blade Runner, The Directors Cut (to prevent the ending confusing things). The quintessential dystopian view of the future. Many have taken cues from it, but don't tell me when they're not as good, I'll take that as a given. Just tell me whether the film is in itself a worthy addition to the genre, or even better, when you consider it to be superior to the benchmark.

Book reviews don't seem to suffer to quite the same review. Take Fantasy. Tolkein defined the genre, but that doesn't mean all other Fantasy novels are judged by that standard. So why are films reviewers so sodding snobby about things??

[alshrive]

Amen to that brother! i enjoy the genre of film that will never win an oscar even if there was no other contenders and is just there for a good watch! my example- Tremors! all 4 of them are inherently atrocious but you cannot help but watch them and enjoy it! and don't mention Jennifer Aniston- if my wife spots something with her in, I know I am in for a few hours of mind numbing boredom! (at work at the moment- may well come back this evening and put a proper post in place!)

[Godless Zealot]

I can see your point on certain films not being held to the same standards as others but film reviewers have to gauge a standard. Does that mean professional reviewers are a bit snooty? Yes it does but that's their job and they have to take everything into account. I quite like Mark Kermode, he's a bit up himself and quite anally retentive when it comes to films but you can often see his point and his rants can be genuinely funny. Of course they're still just recommendations and it's up to the individual to decide. Personally I always prefer to make my own decisions and choices for entertainment rather than base them on the reviews of others, professionally paid or not. Certain films will always split crowds like Transformers etc but if you enjoy them for what they are that's cool.

[Mr Mystery]

But that's my point.

I'm not so much criticising their own tastes. Not everyone is going to enjoy a brainless blockbuster. But to rubbish a film, precisely because it's a brainless blockbuster doesn't get us anywhere. I'm left with no impression about the film, but a firmly negative opinion of the reviewer.

There are those who simpy pour praise over some black and white art house films, whilst refusing to say anything positive about the blockbuster or other crowd pleasers, like Hipsters, but paid for their opinions. Why? Why have someone so utterly biased? What does broadcasting their opinion on a national scale achieve? Arthouse stuff is not mainstream precisely because it tends to be incomprehensible, pretentious crap, designed for hipsters to claim to enjoy to be that little bit cooler!

[DrLove42]

Megan Fox is on the same list as Angie Jolie for me.

Women people say are hot, but must clearly be missing their glasses and half their brain. Not hot. At all

I take the same view on films as you. Films only win awards if they have some deep meaning. And a journey. And no explosions. The only films that win awards are "art" with very few exceptions.

[Wolfshade]

There are certain things to consider.

Firstly, are film critics still worth while? In this modern era of online-journalism and blogging why is someone who is employed as a critic's opinion any more important than anyone elses.

Secondly, every film no matter how bad there is always someone who likes it and vice versa. I very much enjoy watching films, even bad ones. Also, there can still be something endearing in a poorly made low budget film that a multimillion pound remake does capture.

Thirdly, it irritates me the conservativeness of the film industry at the moment, at one stage every advert I saw for a new film was either a sequel, prequel, re-imagining or spin-off. Not an original storyline in the whole kaboodle. These films are safe bets, a new Star Trek film will not flop, it will make a tremendous amount of money because the die-hard fans will see it regardless of any critic and it is these such cash cows that the studios are trying to milk.

Fourthly, some films are great, not because they are any good, but because of what they remind us of. The Wife and I watch Ghostship the other evening, and it was in my opinion a pedestrian predicatable and poor but she loved it as it reminded her of first night at uni where here and her housemate watched it.

[Mr Mystery]

On your third point Wolfie I kind of agree, but I must tip my hat when like with Star Trek, they really go for it.

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah she does nothing for me.

Some films are great for just turning your brain off and **** blowing up...

[Wolfshade]

Yes certainly, the reboot of the franchise was something slightly different rather than just another sequel.
But look how many spider men films there have been since 2000
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man 4 was cancelled
The Amazing Spider Man
The Amazing Spider Man 2 (in production)

[Psychosplodge]

Probably a few too many there

[alshrive]

Yes certainly, the reboot of the franchise was something slightly different rather than just another sequel.
But look how many spider men films there have been since 2000
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man 4 was cancelled
The Amazing Spider Man
The Amazing Spider Man 2 (in production)

I was not a huge fan of 1,2 & 3 however I quite enjoyed the Amazing Spider Man and look forward to the sequel to that. Like i really hope they do a sequel to Dredd, one of the best movie's of 2012 in my opinion!

[Psychosplodge]

I don't think total recall needed remaking, the original still holds up quite well...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Hrm,

Well, I'm much more on the "obscure" end of the scale but I never saw my tastes as "superior" or "better" than those that liked more mainstream stuff, indeed I was picked on as a kid because of the type of music I enjoyed, and I think people in similar positions often develop a defensive attitude that their tastes are better (which I disagree with and find to be a destructive attitude). Perhaps the root of the problem is simply that people need to respect each others tastes in the fisrt place and maybe these absurd and ridiculous divisions wouldnt exist at all. I think labelling people as Hipsters is just as ridiculous btw as you are reacting to their "us and them" attitude" with the exact same tactic as they do. Personally I feel having a good chat with someone who has different tastes or views on things that is respectful and polite can be very very rewarding as it can help one understand things a little better and I think that's a really valuable thing to have.

[Mr Mystery]

Hipster is a deliberately derogatroy title though.

For instance, a film buff who happens not to like Star Wars would be able to engage with me in discussion about the films themes. A Hipster who claims to not like Star Wars is only doing it to appear 'cool' and as such, cannot engage in any constructive discussion, nor recommend other films with similar themes.

Hipsters are about posing, not taste!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Ah, I think I get what you are trying to say, thanks for clarifying. I do think people seem to be relying on the word Hipster to denounce peoples legit opinions more often these days, which I guess isn't using it as it's intended means though. I have met my fair share of people like that though, it felt more like they wanted to just put me down rather than engage in a fun debate.

[YorkNecromancer]

Your Mileage May Vary.

I love me some trashy films. I love "Tremors"; it's a wonderful little B movie. I love "Hellraiser 2", even though it makes absolutely no sense, and you could show any scene in any order and it wouldn't change a thing. I think "Crank 2" is so good that it may in fact be the reason humanity evolved from the primordial ooze - just so we could enjoy that film. But I thought "Transformers" was the most boring pile of nonsense I had ever seen - I too had come for giant robots, and what I got was Shia LeBoef for an hour. "Transformers 2" was even worse, what with the casual racism. If you like them, fine, that's kind of the point of being alive - you just like what you do because it makes a little bell of happiness ring in your head. "Transformers" rings your bell, you're not wrong for liking it, and you don't have to give up liking it just because someone else (including me) thinks it's a piece of rubbish. As for critics, look, if you disagree, well that's kind of the point too. I disagree with almost every single critic except Yahtzee, and my mates all disagree with him.

What it is, is you are experiencing a thing called "cognitive dissonance" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance - your brain is being forced to hold two contradictory ideas, and it doesn't like it.

Idea 1: I enjoyed "Transformers".
Idea 2: People do not enjoy "Transformers"

The conflict in your head is uncomfortable, and so you seek to reset the balance. You could do this in a number of ways. To quote Wikipedia: "If the dissonance is not reduced by changing one's belief, the dissonance can result in restoring consonance through misperception, rejection or refutation of the information, seeking support from others who share the beliefs, and attempting to persuade others."

What you have chosen to do is refute idea number 2, seek support from others online, while attempting to persuade those who disagree that you are correct - not about "Transformers" being good, but about critics being incorrect. That way, the uncomfortable feeling of the two contradictory ideas will go away.

Look, you're not wrong. You're just experiencing cognitive dissonance. You don't have to change your belief, and you don't have to reject film critics out of hand; they're not all wrong all the time, just because they disagree with you about a certain type of disposable entertainment.

You don't need to change your opinion of trashy entertainment. You don't need to attack those who disagree with you. You don't need to seek support for your opinion - it's yours, and that makes it valid, regardless of what anyone else says.

Go watch whatever you want, and ignore the disagreements you may have with others. Just listen to their criticisms, and see if they let you see the thing in a new light, because that can often open up your mind to new and exciting ideas you migth have missed otherwise.

[Mr Mystery]

How about film adaptations?

Short of entertainment, I wandered to my local CEX store, and picked up 6 films for under a tenner. One of which was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Now, having thoroughly enjoyed the source material, in comparrisson the film is a travesty. The whys and wherefores are for perhaps another thread. But, lets change the name of the film to 'Victorian Super Adventure Squad' and much of the judgement passed fades away. That done, you are left with an otherwise perfectly enjoyable film. Granted it's a waste of a massive budget, but that doesn't stop me from finding it enjoyable enough.

But how about you? Where do you stand on this particular area?

[Wolfshade]

I really enjoy the league, even if it isn't a cinematic master peice

[Mr Mystery]

Much the same a myself.

However, all too often an otherwise serviceable film is downed because it's made a hash of a well loved story. Clearly it has to be judged as an adaptation, but it's not often you'll see words such as 'but insult to the source aside, the film is itself really quite well put together'.

Other examples? Judge Dredd. Not a bad film by any means, but such a bad take on old stoney face. Tank Girl.... Dimmest resemblance to the comic, but bloody good fun all the same!

Though to be fair, there are also those that are just outright terrible, and a waste of celluloid. Ang Lee's take on Hulk for example. Jervis, that film is just outright terrible, let alone the liberties it took with the source!

[Deadlift]

I don't think total recall needed remaking, the original still holds up quite well...

Just watched it and thought it was fantastic, not sure if its more faithful to the Phillip K Dick short story but you can see its origins are related to Blade Runner.

I don't really do cerebral movies too much, I love sci-fi as long as its got some action. But I love me some slapstick too. Last night I watched "The Dictator" and I haven't laughed so much in a long time. The scene with the helicopter had me in tears.

[Mr Mystery]

Put off that by Colin Farrell. Can't stand him!

Plus, original is a campy favourite of mine, so don't want to risk ruining it.

[Psychosplodge]

Not seen the dictator yet, probably wait for it to be £3 in the bargain bin, or come to TV...

Now a film I do enjoy watching whenever it's on, Demolition Man...

[Wolfshade]

Watched that the other night awesomeness!

Also film 43 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0148158

[Psychosplodge]

Came in and found it on, still full of awesome...

[Wolfshade]

There are some brilliant bits to the film. I like how they have slightly altered normal speach patterns to indicate a future use.

And let's not forget Bullock's character trying to use idoims and getting them wrong:

Huxley: Let's go blow this guy.
Spartan: Away! Blow this guy *away*!
Huxley: Whatever.


Huxley: Looks like there's a new shepherd in town.
Spartan: That's sheriff.


Huxley: Chief, you can take this job, and you can shovel it.
Spartan: Take this job... and shovel it.
Huxley: Yeah?
Spartan: Close enough.


Huxley: He's finally matched his meet. You really licked his ***.
Spartan: That's *met* his match and kicked... *kicked* his ***...

[Deadlift]

Put off that by Colin Farrell. Can't stand him!

Plus, original is a campy favourite of mine, so don't want to risk ruining it.

Don't let him put you off, he is actually really good in it. I know some people don't like him but I think he is rather good. Quite versatile to, if you think about the films "in Brugge" and "horrible bosses" he was great in both those films. Come to think of it Jennifer Aniston was quite good in that too.

[Psychosplodge]

Phoenix:Spartan? John Spartan? Aw ****, they let anybody into this century! What the hell you doing here?

[Wolfshade]

Don't let him put you off, he is actually really good in it. I know some people don't like him but I think he is rather good. Quite versatile to, if you think about the films "in Brugge" and "horrible bosses" he was great in both those films. Come to think of it Jennifer Aniston was quite good in that too.

I wonder which bits you were thinking of :rolleyes:

[Mr Mystery]

Unfortunately, a single wrong actor can ruin a film for me. They bring me out in a rash of whining.

Like The Hobbitt. I know I will see it, and I know James 'barely an actor' Nesbitt will ruin it with that single bloody facial expression of his. Reactionary I know, but it is what it is!

Other guilty pleasures came to the fore this weekend, when as part of my DVD binge in CEX, I picked up Jason Goes To Hell and Jason X. I know they're cack. I know the entire series beyond the first three are horribly flawed, but I cannot help but love me some dodgy slasher films! Again, justifiably slated as they were as examples of the film makers craft, it doesn't stop them being highly entertaining!

[Wolfshade]

I think it is Jason X that has a brillaint scene where there are two girls camping in a sleeping bag and he picks them up and starts swinging them at a tree, the whole thing is so farcical.

[Mr Mystery]

That's the puppy! It's terrible and it knows it!

Likewise the Resident Evil films. I love them! Decent central character, zombies are pretty cool, plots are ridiculous. Ideal saturday night fare if you ask me!