What would you do?

[SombreBrotherhood]

So, here's the situation. You're playing in a friendly game against someone who is either a) trying an army for the first time or two or b) an inexperienced player in general. In the course of play, they make major errors that benefit you. You may notice that they're about to start moving guys and therefore forfeit their opportunity to roll reserves for that DP dread sitting off-table or about to charge your T6 Chaplain with guardsmen...

How do you handle this situation? Do you remind them politely that Cassius is T6 and they'll not easily wound him, or do you stop them from touching that Rhino and say "reserves?"

Now that you've answered, apply the situation to a tournament, where most mistakes happen because we're hurrying so that we can get in more game during the time limit...do you stop your opponent from doing something silly, or say "Dude, you don't want to do that".

Did your answer change?

[entendre_entendre]

yes, it did. in friendly games i would remind them of something they forgot, but in a tournie i feel that the mindset is different. maybe it's all the super-comp feeling of teh interwebs rubbing off on me, but if one shows up to a tournie, one should at least know the basic rules and the rules for their army. if they ask what the stats of any of my unit are, i will of course answer, but if they don't in a tournie, i feel i need to tell them exactly what all my stats are unless we both do it at the begining (hooray different standards!). if i'm playing a new player in a tournie, i won't just tell them how to play, because if i do that, they won't really earn anything. mistakes make you better, as at least you'll try not to make the same mistake again (at least this is what i keep telling myself :P)

[Chumbalaya]

In friendlies or against a newbie, I'll help them out and cut plenty of slack, but in a tourney setting they'll generally get 1 friendly reminder about reserves or charging or whatever. I try to hold myself to a higher standard though, rarely asking for do-overs. It's the only way I'll learn :P

[gwensdad]

For a new player, I find a "**COUGH**reserves**COUGH**" works.
I let "new army" types learn from their mistakes. I still would charge a T6 character with S3 guardsmen-assuming I could also get a power fist into that fight (and I do, have, and won such fights)

[Aldramelech]

In friendlies or against a newbie, I'll help them out and cut plenty of slack, but in a tourney setting they'll generally get 1 friendly reminder about reserves or charging or whatever. I try to hold myself to a higher standard though, rarely asking for do-overs. It's the only way I'll learn :P

Yep, what he said......

[Duke]

Generally speaking I will tell people when they are missing something in friendly games... In a tournament setting it really depends on a few things:
1. Am I in a posistion to win the whole thing? If so then I may not help at all, I will also not allow 'oops, can I do that now?' If I am not in a posistion to place then I will play it like a friendly game, meaning I will help where and whenever I think it is helpful to my opponent, I will also allow them to go back and do seomthing they forgot.

2. If the person I am playing is really cool then I will match their attitude. If they let me go back and 'fix things,' then I will allow it too... No matter if I am playing 'for the win,'

So all in all it depends on where I am in the overall tournie and the attitude of the person Im playing

Duke

[Lord Azaghul]

I kind of had this happen this weekend at the tourny. One guy elected to shoot at my demolisher, then when he realized it was rear 11 and his squad couldn't hurt it (he had already rolled dice for the character that could hurt it) wanted to 'do over' against the 10man squad in range. My answer was a polite no - since this is a tourniment. Forgeting a reserves roll - you get one polite reminder in a tourney, and in casual games I'll probably let you reroll, but if you're still doing it after the 4th or 5th game, then you've got to learn the hard way!

[Grabnutz]

And this is why I feel tournaments are unhealthy. Gaming is about having fun, making friends and enjoying a common hobby. If people feel they must win at any cost then perhaps they should try Merchant Banking instead, or chess.

If I see an opponent miss a phase or something they had earlier declared they would do then I tell them. I am not prescient so I can't remind them to remember something I don't know about.

If I forget something and someone reminds me afterwards I simply accept I am an idiot and carry on. Fog of war and all that.

[Wolfshade]

I think I agree with Duke, it depends on their attitude, but certainly if they make a mistake like forgetting a reserve role then a gentle reminder of "which units are in reserve again?" but as for shooting/assaulting the wrong unit/vehicle not so much. I think there is a fine line between forgetting to do something and doing the wrong thing. In a tournament or heavy setting then its more of a case of well you should be conversant with the rules:cool:

[Lerra]

In tournaments, I'll mention play mistakes after the game is over, if there is time and the player seems receptive. No do-overs in a tournament.

Reserves are a different story, though. You MUST roll for reserves, and they come in whether you want it or not. So the way I see it, I must tell that player to roll for reserves, otherwise we're both playing the game wrong. Otherwise I could simply always "forget" to roll reserves for my small scoring unit, and have them go after an objective on the bottom of 5 when they automatically come in.

Imo, it's same as a player who forgets about a pre-existing assault on the far end of the table and passes me the turn. We HAVE to do that assault before he gives me the turn, mistake or no. We don't get to skip that assault phase just because one player forgot about it.

[DarkLink]

In the majority of games my group plays, if someone says "hey, I forgot to move this unit before I started shooting", we're fine with letting them move it. Generally, if they forgot to do something exactly in order, it shouldn't be a big deal (except in a tournament, perhaps). Just don't let them move a unit they forgot to last turn or something way, way out of order.

Instead of letting a newb go back and fix his mistakes, try and remind him before he (or she) makes the mistake. It helps them learn to do things in order, without being too hard on them.

[Wolfshade]

Imo, it's same as a player who forgets about a pre-existing assault on the far end of the table and passes me the turn. We HAVE to do that assault before he gives me the turn, mistake or no. We don't get to skip that assault phase just because one player forgot about it.

Yeah, from that angle it has to be done as soon as noticed otherwise it could be used for an unfair advantage. Especially with reserves etc.

[yergerjo]

Regardless of it being a tourney or friendly game my goal is to have fun, as is everyone else's goal. I have allowed people to take back or fix things in tourney's (even 'Ard Boyz, taking 2nd); you can usually tell when someone makes an honest mistake in remembrance (forgetting to roll reserves, leaving a squad stationary, not disembarking) vs doing those things for an advantage. I make mistakes and forget sometimes...Just last week, playing with my DE I forgot to roll for my 2 reserve Raider Squads on turn 2...remembering at the end of the shooting phase, I rolled with my opponent's permission but I was only going to move them minimally onto the board (6" as MY penalty to myself for forgetting).

It happens, and honestly I am more inclined to decline a person's request to fix/redo something in a tourney (although you can be sure I would want them rolling those reserves), so long as it really doesn't interfere with the game's fun.

[BuFFo]

So, here's the situation. You're playing in a friendly game against someone who is either a) trying an army for the first time or two or b) an inexperienced player in general. In the course of play, they make major errors that benefit you. You may notice that they're about to start moving guys and therefore forfeit their opportunity to roll reserves for that DP dread sitting off-table or about to charge your T6 Chaplain with guardsmen...

How do you handle this situation? Do you remind them politely that Cassius is T6 and they'll not easily wound him, or do you stop them from touching that Rhino and say "reserves?"

Yes I would help / tell them everything.


Now that you've answered, apply the situation to a tournament, where most mistakes happen because we're hurrying so that we can get in more game during the time limit...do you stop your opponent from doing something silly, or say "Dude, you don't want to do that".

Yes, I would keep my mouth shut and not say a word.


Did your answer change?

Yes.

[Cryl]

Yes I would help / tell them everything.

Yes, I would keep my mouth shut and not say a word.

Yes.

exactly that... tournaments are one thing and friendly games are another, especially in your original question where you're playing against someone who is fairly new...

[xxxjammerxxx]

I remind the other player regardless if the the game is friendly or a tournament. Good sportsmanship is required in all games and is the true spirit of the game. out of the ten tournaments I have entered I have won the Good Sportsman title 9 times and tied on the tenth time and gladly succeeded the title to the other player. The point of playing is to have a good time and lots of fun.

[Wolfshade]

I think an interesting aspect of this isn't the did your answer change, but if it did, why?

And I think this may come down to having a different mindset when entering a tournament to playing a normal game.

For instance when I play a normal game, I play for the love of the hobby. I've spent ages painting my army developing a back story for it, now my little men are going to fight for their lives against the dastardly opponent. And in this narrative sort of setting its a very complete version of the hobby.
But there are people who play to win, not just play to win because even in the most friendly games I always play to win, but those who play to win at all costs and its not to say that that is wrong, but it can be that they play to win at all costs while being a jerk about it, interpreting rules to their own advantage.

In a tournament (especially where there is an entry fee), its not so much playing for the love of the hobby (but that certainly is a driver), its playing for the win. Also, there is the expectation that the opponents should know the rules to a sufficient standard not to need to be reminded about things.

I think what I'm trying to ramble about but not making terribly clear is each time I play there is a balance between playing for the win and playing for the love of the hobby and depending on the setting depends which one is dominant.:confused:

[Majorcrash]

For me it totally depends on my opponent. If he playing like a male body part, then theres no remourse on my part, but as most who I play havent been playing anywhere near as long, I will remind them of things they forgot. Or suggest a different course of action. If they become better players it sharpens my game. But if you wanna play where you only pick up cocked dice when it doenst benifet you, or remember to you hadent move a piece just before its time to charge. Then its by the book boy. Near of these offences is enough for me not to play this person in the future, just that they need to learn better player etiquette. Especially with the new guys I really go out of my way to try and make them understand that certain behaviors are just not sporting. (and by guys I am including you girls, so i don't get ranted on like in another thread)

[MarshalAdamar]

I think it depends.

I feel like you need to tell people if they forget something because the rules are the rules. If you MUST roll for reserves then you MUST roll for reserves and roll EVERY round or you’re not playing by the rules.

In that case I don't think that it’s a matter of your opponent forgot as long as one of you remember, preferably before he starts moving all his units. If not you have a problem, and you have to work it out.

So to keep it simple if it’s a rule that you HAVE to do, “Unit must charge” then you need to do that to make sure that the rules are being followed.

But if it’s a voluntary move, “Oh I forgot to charge your Tau with my death company” that’s different. It’s up to your opponent. It’s a good idea to ask him or her first how you want to handle it. For me I usually let them do anything that I know, or think that I know they would have done. In the above example, I KNOW that that player was probably going to charge my Tau so I’m going to let him do it after the fact.

There is a big but in there, if you forget to shoot your broadsides at my rhino, then shot it and destroyed it with missile pods, we’re not going back to untangle that so you can shoot the broadsides at the rhino and the missile pods at another unit. But I might let you shoot the broadsides at something else.

Now if he forgets and I forget and half way through my turn he remembers well that’s too bad usually. I’ll let if go if it’s not a huge disruption. If you forgot to shoot your battle cannon in your turn I’m not going to let you go back and shoot it half way through my turn.

If you make a bad decision I’ll make you live with it, but if you forgot a drop pod with dreadnaught until turn 5 then drop it on an objective to contest that’s not really a penalty for “forgetting” the drop pod and its cargo. That’s two kill points that your opponent doesn’t get to shoot at the whole game. So it’s not always a “bad” thing for your opponent to forget.

[Culven]

There are some factors that would influence how I deal with the situations which were not mentioned.

If the other player has asked for a teaching/learning/practice game, then I would be more willing to aloow moves to be taken back and I would expect some discussion of tactics during the game. If they haven't asked for a TLP game, then they can make all the mistakes they like. In a tournament, I expect my opponent to know what they are doing and tactical errors are their own fault. Same applies to myself. However, if they forgot to move a unit and haven't yet started the shootign phase (i.e. haven't measured any ranges or rolled any dice), I am willing to allow them to move the unit. In either a friendly or tournament game, I will remind my opponent when they are about to break the rules (such as not rolling for Reserves), since certain things are not optional. Furthermore, in either situation, I would be more than happy to discuss tactics after the game.