How much is GW ripping YOU off?

[Gotthammer]

It seems that the the latest WoC release has ruffled a few feathers with its pricing in the US, particularly the Slaughterbrute. As it seemed to me, being Australian, comparatively priced I decided to do something I'd been meaning to do for a while and run some figures, comparing different countries prices across a range of products and the variations they have over the UK prices.

Figures are up on my blog for those interested (http://collegiatitanica.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-much-is-gw-ripping-you-off_27.html).


Note 1: Yes, I posted this in the WoC thread as well, but it's a general thing.

Note 2: Yes, ripoff is a loaded word, but it makes for a great headline dontcha think ;)

[Psychosplodge]

Just makes me even more glad not to be foreign... :p


http://youtu.be/1CS1cUIxBVg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They don't make me feel ripped off, I don't feel the need to buy much, I have what I need.

[imperialpower]

Probably priced higher as revenge for other countrys getting mostly everything else cheaper (like fuel!!):mad:

[Mr Mystery]

Price is the price. Pay it or don't pay it. Not seeing the issue here?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm with you on that Mystery.

[Fizzybubela]

Well I don't like the Slaughterbrute so I don't really care about how much it is. Me personally, I was hoping for a more Nordic look to the monster. :(

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Not at all really, I got priced out a few years ago but I have plenty of stuff to paint that's lying around from several different factions. I am happy with what I got and feel lucky for getting it at the time I did (now that prices are beyond what I can personally afford).

[antennafarm]

i don't feel ripped off at all.

40k is in no way a necessity to life. it's a game - and one game out of a bunch. if it were flour, vegetables, milk, meat, or anything of the sort, okay. but it's not even a tv dinner, "basic" but more expensive than its parts - it's a fine wine. it's not required, it's an extra, it's something that can and should be dropped if finances are hard.

if i want to play cheaply, i can (and do). it's called discipline and having a little self control. being an adult (pardon to you folks that aren't yet).

aussieland, i'm sorry it is more expensive to play 40k - that sucks. but you're not being screwed. you just have to pay more for a particular LUXURY item. be creative: buy less, make deals with friends to swap bits. buy greenstuff and learn to convert/model. since your stores aren't getting much GW support for tournaments, hold tournaments -- with no citadel miniature requirements.

also, perhaps there's more than GW at play here? get out of your microcosm. look at the full tapestry, maybe things are the way they are for a reason (or MANY REASONS).

[isotope99]

Interesting figures.

Basically stuff that has to be sent to the other side of the world costs more, presumably because they are shipping a long way from UK manufacturing sites (I think they still cast most things in the UK) at relatively low volume. To be really representative, the prices should be adjusted with some kind of shipping cost estimate.

There's a bit of a chicken-egg problem here, to lower the shipping cost they need high volume (like in the US which is a big market), but to get higher volume they need more reasonable prices. :confused:

[Gotthammer]

It's an analysis of the price breakdowns, y'all are getting hung up on the thread title.

For instance the Slaughterbrute is, in most countries, significantly below the average markup - yet it above in the US. The Deathwing set is actually more marked up in the US (133% vs 108%), yet no significant comment has been made on the price in threads that I've seen. A case of the extra bits / models per box seeming to be more bang for your buck, or is it just that $80 is the ceiling US players will accept regardless? Note how the Slaughterbrute is $10 cheaper than a Land Raider in Australia, yet $10 more than a LR in the US. The Land Raider is oft considered the upper level of non-superheavy vehicles price wise, has going above that threshold been a mistake?

Also the tac squad, what one would expect to be cheaper due to probably being one of the consistently highest selling units is actually one of the most marked up for the farther flung gamer. The talk of emphasis on flyers as a marketing tool also seems to be borne out by the DA flyer being on parity for markup or cheaper, and GW takes advantage of its hobby centre monopoly (or perhaps less monopoly and more keeping people brand loyal - the power of money to be centrally located!) with heavy increases in costs of supplies compared to other areas.
It will be interesting to see if with GW's scaling back and relocating of store fronts from prime locations if the brand loyalty will fade as gamers are unintentionally sent to indie stores they might not have visited otherwise (I always went to GW due to 1 - great staff, 2 - cool people hanging out and 3 really convenient. 1 and 2 are a non issue as the store has shrunk and moved, thus also rendering 3 moot might as well go elsewhere if it's going to be just as much a hassle).


@ Isotope - Infinity, Reaper and WarMahordes all cost equal to exchange rate here (or less even!), and they're much smaller operations so shipping should really be costing them more if anyone.
See also the fact that I can personally buy a single FW Wasp War Walker (complete WW kit plus resin parts and additional weapon sprue) and have it shipped here by itself (the least cost effective method of shipping - bulk is cheaper) and it will cost less than buying a plain War Walker in store. If GW have to factor in a 193% markup in the cost of shipping glue, they don't deserve to be in business.

I am of course not discounting shipping being a factor, but it can't be the only factor.

Edit: and before someone brings it up, the minimum wage in Australia is only 10% higher than in the UK.

[Chaoschrist]

GW isn't ripping me off at all. I could just say no to new models... no one is forcing me to buy those

[Mr Mystery]

i don't feel ripped off at all.

40k is in no way a necessity to life. it's a game - and one game out of a bunch. if it were flour, vegetables, milk, meat, or anything of the sort, okay. but it's not even a tv dinner, "basic" but more expensive than its parts - it's a fine wine. it's not required, it's an extra, it's something that can and should be dropped if finances are hard.

if i want to play cheaply, i can (and do). it's called discipline and having a little self control. being an adult (pardon to you folks that aren't yet).

aussieland, i'm sorry it is more expensive to play 40k - that sucks. but you're not being screwed. you just have to pay more for a particular LUXURY item. be creative: buy less, make deals with friends to swap bits. buy greenstuff and learn to convert/model. since your stores aren't getting much GW support for tournaments, hold tournaments -- with no citadel miniature requirements.

also, perhaps there's more than GW at play here? get out of your microcosm. look at the full tapestry, maybe things are the way they are for a reason (or MANY REASONS).


What this fine gent, or possibly lady said.

This is a hobby people. It's an optional extra life presents us with.

I myself have spent best part of £75 this month alone just on books (Codex Dark Angels, The Greater Good, Neferata and Road of Skulls if anyone is interested) and by comparrison, spent marginally more on my food for the month. Did I have to? By no means. Would I prefer if it was less? Well of course, I'm not an r-tard.

But I spent it because I enjoy it, and will continue to do so for as long as I draw breath. And there friends lies the crux of the matter. GW has played an extremely significant role in my life, and whilst I may not be typical, that makes any price trivial.

Besides, what else I am going to spend my wonga on?

[HsojVvad]

GW is not ripping me off. All they did was price me out of collecting 40K and LotR or I mean The Hobbit now. So now I just make smaller purchases and less often. Was going to collect all of The Hobbit, but with the price increases, it's not worth it for me anymore and to continue with 40K. Not getting anything for The Hobbit now.

So I just stick with what I have now and maybe a DA purchase or two until Tyranids come out and then buy the codex and a purchase or two, but that is it.

[Gotthammer]

Mystery, the issue is that whilst you spent £75 and got four books, I would spend that and get two (if that), what with the DA codex costing £56 here. When the hobby you enjoy becomes far too expensive to partake in, it significantly decreases one's enjoyment (or at least you swap brands, see my comment about Infinity et al above).

And before some terribly clever person chimes in with "why don't you take up paintball / golf / sailing / shooting / classic cars / whatever, that's a expensive hobby - X set me back Y thousand [units of currency]" - I'm comparing identical items with themselves, so it is a poor argument to make. I have other hobbies where items cost more individually, but it doesn't change the fact that there is no clear reason why I'm forced (yes, forced, due to the embargo) to pay obscene markups in some cases for an identical product.
The Australian government has been putting pressure on Apple, Adobe and others over their use of the same practices online with digital downloads so, while it is a long shot, there is potential GW may be required in the future to explain these price differentials.


For whatever reason, they have this weird price structure that everybody always brings up piecemeal when a new release hits, so I thought I'd actually do some maths and get concrete figures and comparisons for people to look at, as well as relative incomes and costs of living (as those are often included in these arguments).

[Deadlift]

The only think I did notice was the iPad version of the Warriors of Chaos army book is actually cheaper than the Dark Angels one. I thought the Warhammer armie books and the 40k Codeci (or what ever the hell the plural is) were priced the same.

[Deadlift]

Our Aussie friends have had a rough deal as far as GW and prices go though. I think I recall its cheaper for Australians to buy from FW for the most part. If this is the case then something is surely amiss with GWs international pricing policies.

I also do think personally that GW maybe getting to that pricing point now were they could reasonable start losing sales, maybe not turnover but sales. I have always said its an expensive hobby but there are ways to still enjoy it on a budget. eBay and the very good for value starter sets are good ways to start. But I do worry when GW start selling 1 single model such as that new chaos beastie for £50, well I think that's a bit much especially as that model really isn't that special.

[Chris Copeland]

I feel that I get an excellent value for every precious greenback I spend. I get SO MUCH enjoyment and fulfillment out of this hobby. I have as yet to begrudge GW their profits for the wonderfulness that they sell me.

I just bought the Horus Heresy book from Forgeworld. It is one of the nicest, best written, best put together tomes I've ever seen. I've had many hours of enjoyment pouring over it... it cost me over $110 since it was priced in Sterling! It has been worth every cent. Cheers.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I HATE these discussions. I could make you all feel bad, but I won't, because this type of argument is degrading.... I enjoy the hobby, I'll pay for it.

[Bigred]

There are really separate conversations here.

First up, yes the Australian pricing structure is harsh. It is a tough spot for all sides of he equation. GW wants to keep margins up with the higher cost of business in Australia compared to the EU or NA. AUS customers don't want to feel like they are being singled out for markedly higher prices than others around the globe.

Second is the differences between that AUS price differential from line to line and even model to model.

I think as other have said we are at the cusp of seeing the price peak in the Australian market. As some point a company does reach a price ceiling where further increases degrade sales an a clip that outshines the extra margins and hurt the bottom line. Also now consider that this price peak varies from system to system. Even within GW, it could easily be that Fantasy sales are dropping off at a faster rate than 40k. If that were true, you would expect any business to begins to slowly and methodically begin to walk back that AUS differential in whatever system is most ailing until they find that equilibrium again.

I have this funny feeling that with the rapid release of both Dark Angels and Warriors of Chaos we are seeing this pricing policy adjustment play out before out eyes.

-Larry

[Iyandagar]

Not sure why this topic keeps popping up. If stuff is too expensive, don't buy it. Hobbies tend to be be cash drains, well mine certainly are. GW are like any other business, in it to make money, that isn't going to change any more than the Earth choosing to stop spinning. Either you fork your cash over to them or you don't.

[Gotthammer]

I also do think personally that GW maybe getting to that pricing point now were they could reasonable start losing sales, maybe not turnover but sales. I have always said its an expensive hobby but there are ways to still enjoy it on a budget. eBay and the very good for value starter sets are good ways to start. But I do worry when GW start selling 1 single model such as that new chaos beastie for £50, well I think that's a bit much especially as that model really isn't that special.

Losing sales volume, if not turnover can be rather dangerous for a social hobby. I mean look at LotR or many of the smaller "indie" games - how many times have we seen people say "I'd love to play X, but nobody else here does"? If people start cutting back and due to downsizing go to stores left, the community may not die but it will certainly atrophy to a degree. This of course reduces new players as there are less people to bring others in, which means less income and replacing of older customers buying less etc etc.
And given that Japan and Australia were both recently named the two most expensive countries in which to find housing by one study, the countries with the most skewed CPI / income / markup ratios are the ones which will bleed customers the most when they hit the age when they need to save dosh to start their own lives.


I feel that I get an excellent value for every precious greenback I spend. I get SO MUCH enjoyment and fulfillment out of this hobby. I have as yet to begrudge GW their profits for the wonderfulness that they sell me.

May I ask if there is a price point where you'd draw the line? I used to be very similar to you but around the point of the Dark Eldar release the dollar to enjoyment ratio started getting far to skewed to really continue.


I just bought the Horus Heresy book from Forgeworld. It is one of the nicest, best written, best put together tomes I've ever seen. I've had many hours of enjoyment pouring over it... it cost me over $110 since it was priced in Sterling! It has been worth every cent. Cheers.

I almost count Forge World as a separate company now due to the price difference - the HH book you mentioned was cheaper than the LE DA codex which, I admit this is just a personal feeling, is just wrong.


There are really separate conversations here.

First up, yes the Australian pricing structure is harsh. It is a tough spot for all sides of he equation. GW wants to keep margins up with the higher cost of business in Australia compared to the EU or NA. AUS customers don't want to feel like they are being singled out for markedly higher prices than others around the globe.

Well at least we're not in South America or Africa, those guys are totally hosed - trade embargo, outrageous international shipping from the official webstore etc :/



Second is the differences between that AUS price differential from line to line and even model to model.

I think as other have said we are at the cusp of seeing the price peak in the Australian market. As some point a company does reach a price ceiling where further increases degrade sales an a clip that outshines the extra margins and hurt the bottom line. Also now consider that this price peak varies from system to system. Even within GW, it could easily be that Fantasy sales are dropping off at a faster rate than 40k. If that were true, you would expect any business to begins to slowly and methodically begin to walk back that AUS differential in whatever system is most ailing until they find that equilibrium again.

I have this funny feeling that with the rapid release of both Dark Angels and Warriors of Chaos we are seeing this pricing policy adjustment play out before out eyes.

-Larry

The fantasy players I know are hard core, but it's always been second fiddle in my experience - needing to buy dozens of blisters for ranks back in the day at high prices meant (from my observations and conversations) that people steered away from it to the smaller 40k.
You might be right about seeing the adjustment in action, especially with the newer releases being much "flatter" in markup across the pacific group. What's weird is that the basics (tac squad, codexes, supplies) are basically flipped - cheaper over there than here - not something I expected and may even be a contributor to GW price fatigue here. By that I mean most people will buy one or two of things like the Forgefiend, Flyers or big monsters, but you need to buy four or five tac squads for a 1500pt army and a codex. I dunno, it seems backwards to me to give people the more expensive things cheaper, and say to people "you need this" and hit them hard with it.
To give an example the classic retail scheme is making money with the extras - 50 cents for sauce, 25 cents for cream etc. It feels like GW is charging a premium for the meal but giving the little things people might not want away for free. While it may make the people buying a three course meal more inclined to do so, the casual passer by might look at the price of a burger and think "too much".

[eldargal]

I think the GW UK prices are reasonable for the quality and the fact they are made here, I think the US prices are acceptable for the most part but the Australian prices are completely ridiculous. I understand some of the arguments and accept that as a consumer we may not have the full picture but I still think they are priced higher than they ought to be and that will just hurt them down there in the short/long term.

[Deadlift]

I HATE these discussions. I could make you all feel bad, but I won't, because this type of argument is degrading.... I enjoy the hobby, I'll pay for it.

Yes I can agree with you to certain point. I enjoy the hobby, I continue to pay for it. I spend the same but get less. I have no issue personally with that. But as Gott said, if you price too many out of the hobby then who the hell will be left. Less players and purchases could see GW slow down on the new releases which nobody wants to see.

Now my moan.
What the ****ing hell were GW thinking when they released the DA book, it was so full of mistakes and problems that they had to release printable corrections and changes within a week. £30 for a book which needs corrections and amendments within days of release really is a big mistake to me. So now anyone who doesn't use the iPad version now has to carry the codex and then pieces of paper within a week of buying the book. GW if your going to charge premium prices, then your products need to be premium quality. For the most part they are, but this DA was rushed out and wasn't ready.

[White Tiger88]

Ah i can't wait to see what they do to all the other armies.........Next we will have a tau codex with Tau spelled as Tuna..........

[Wildeybeast]

I thought Australian prices were so high because the brick and mortar stores over there basically didn't make any money and the only way they could keep them open was to subsidise them through high prices. Or have I just made that up?

Anyway, this discussion is pointless and only going over old ground. 'Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it'. If you want prices to go down, stop buying GW stuff. They only jack up the prices because they know they can get away with it.

Gott, have you considered getting someone over here to buy stuff for you and then ship it out? I'd imagine that would work out cheaper.

[eldargal]

There is OzHammer:
http://ozhammer.webs.com/

British RRP + shipping. I've recommended it to a friend but I'm not sure he has used it yet but it seems to be well-regarded.

[lobster-overlord]

my only issue is that it outpaces inflation. If they were doing inflationary increases, it would be one thing, but to be 10% or more every year on hot units is a joke.

I've always gone the used route for stuff, but have gone used more recently because of the prices. I bought myself a stormtalon for xmas, but that was a splurge. Other than that, everything else lately has been retreads from ebay or friends. Let them take the price hit, and I'm OK with it.

Half the fun of the hobby is finding a good deal. (I was manager at my FLGS for a year and a half and I paid cost +5%, but when that ended, I was back to trolling the boards for good stuff.)

John M>

[Caitsidhe]

Games Workshop isn't ripping me off because they rarely sell me anything directly these days. :) I have found that if I am patient and take the time to look, I can generally get anything I want for about 60-70% off by using Ebay, trades, Amazon, sales, and so on. This doesn't even go into conversions to build what I want myself or prize support. I think, without a doubt, that a lot of people are paying way too much... but I'm not.

[ksoh75]

Ah i can't wait to see what they do to all the other armies.........Next we will have a tau codex with Tau spelled as Tuna..........

hahahhahahahahahahah.....like we are going to see the Tau this year........

We've been seeing them coming for the past 2 years.....

[Gotthammer]

What the ****ing hell were GW thinking when they released the DA book, it was so full of mistakes and problems that they had to release printable corrections and changes within a week.

And they said they wouldn't be stocking Forge World books any more :D



I thought Australian prices were so high because the brick and mortar stores over there basically didn't make any money and the only way they could keep them open was to subsidise them through high prices. Or have I just made that up?

I've seen that come up, but usually alongside the whole Australia has a much higher minimum wage argument, which might hold water if comparing to the US, but we're not. Also high street rents are pretty comparable too. I think a few of them are losing money here, which would probably be why they closed a few and downsized more.


Anyway, this discussion is pointless and only going over old ground. 'Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it'. If you want prices to go down, stop buying GW stuff. They only jack up the prices because they know they can get away with it.

Gott, have you considered getting someone over here to buy stuff for you and then ship it out? I'd imagine that would work out cheaper.


I dunno, we've got a fair indication that people, the more vocal fans at least, are either perfectly fine with prices (either buying the same regardless or simply spending the same $ figure on less) or have stopped completely. Purely anecdotal but I've been seeing much less of the "I buy one or two cool models" comments of late, so it seems to be going to a more all or nothing situation. I know that's what happened with me - I bought heaps, then I just bought the stuff I really, really liked, and now I barely buy anything.
And whilst I agree that not-buying is the only real alternative, hopefully people will be a little more educated in terms of how much stuff is costing them relative to other places with actual figures and maths rather than anecdotal commentary :)

And I had considered that, but then basically decided that if I wanted something bad enough to go to all that hassle (and put someone else through it) I'd have bought it here already. Besided, it's sort of at the point where I could buy a codex that probably won't contain much new info, or I could buy this dress (http://emeraldswamp.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27_1&products_id=593). No contest there at the moment :p
Of course the $50 codex would probably get bought, as it's not as extreme.

[Psychosplodge]

Get the dress.

[Deadlift]

Get the dress.

Yeah, that's a hot dress.

[eldargal]

Agreed, get the dress.

[Psychosplodge]

See we've got strong support for the dress.

[Wolfshade]

Does the dress need strong support?

I suppose back the OP the question is "If you know that the price is over the odds and yet you still choose to pay it, are you being ripped-off?"

Certainly I would be if I brought a kg of iron at the price for a kg of gold, or if I brought a 120Gb SSD and it was infact only 2Gb. But knowing what it is, and how much it should cost/does cost and still paying more, though you don't have a choice (on the price) is it still a rip-off?

[Necron2.0]

But knowing what it is, and how much it should cost/does cost and still paying more, though you don't have a choice (on the price) is it still a rip-off?

Hmmm. I have an idea for finding out. Not sure if this is being done already or not. Let's say a brick and mortar store (one that sells GW products but not exclusively) sets up an unofficial 40K tournament. They advertise it as a "Dark and gritty future war tournament" without calling it 40K by name. In the fine print they mention the tournament will be run using the 40K rule set (either the current one or an OOP set). The the caveat for the tournament, however, is that absolutely none of the army figures may be from GW, or include GW bits. Everything must be either scratch built, common 3rd party proxies or something similar.

If GW were to serve a "Cease and Desist" for that tournament, then I'd take that as a sign that GW is knowingly attempting to rip people off. It'd be a sign of their desire to force people to buy only their products for both "official" and unofficial gaming.

++++

Oh, and I wouldn't buy the dress ... but only because I would look terrible in it. ;)

[Deadlift]

I don't know Necron2.0 you could always borrow a dress, take some pics and post them on here. We would then give you our honest opinion on how you look. Promise no laughing either my friend ;)

[Psychosplodge]

I don't Necron2.0 you could always borrow a dress, take some pics and post them on here. We would then give you our honest opinion on how you look. Promise no laughing either my friend ;)

He makes a good point, until you have our unbiased opinions on the subject you won't know, especially as you're too involved in the process to make an objective assessment.

[Gotthammer]

So I should get the dress then?



I suppose back the OP the question is "If you know that the price is over the odds and yet you still choose to pay it, are you being ripped-off?"

Aye, that's the meat of it and one I'm not sure of myself. I think GW's stubborn refusal to even acknowledge the issue is almost as big a thing as the prices themselves.

[Denzark]

Clearly GW haven't reached a tipping point in Aus yet where their prices cause a fall in revenues to the point where they reduce their prices. So that means people are voting with their wallets - either a.) They accept GW's rip-off so it is their fault. or b.) They are actually individuals with sentience and self will and take responsibility for themselves and its a luxury item non-essential, so they are ripping themselves off or maybe just c.) It is not a rip-off at all. As evidenced by the fact revenues haven't fallen to the point where prices are driven down.


GW isn't ripping me off btw, I only buy new when I haven't the patience to wait. This is what Ebay is for, I am an expert at pimp my tank with glue slopped abortions where little timmy rage quits and sells his entire collection - the higher preices, the more quitters, the more cheap stuff on ebay, maybe GW put their prices down eventually. Actually, therefore, their price structure is entirely a good thing...

[alshrive]

i blame nobody for what i spend on my hobby save myself. after all i am the mug that willingly hands over the hard earned cash even if i think it is a rip off sometimes. And with that i need to buy Throgg because the pretty miniatures won't buy themselves.

[Wildeybeast]

I dunno, we've got a fair indication that people, the more vocal fans at least, are either perfectly fine with prices (either buying the same regardless or simply spending the same $ figure on less) or have stopped completely. Purely anecdotal but I've been seeing much less of the "I buy one or two cool models" comments of late, so it seems to be going to a more all or nothing situation. I know that's what happened with me - I bought heaps, then I just bought the stuff I really, really liked, and now I barely buy anything.
And whilst I agree that not-buying is the only real alternative, hopefully people will be a little more educated in terms of how much stuff is costing them relative to other places with actual figures and maths rather than anecdotal commentary :)

Fair point. Though if that is the case, the ones who are still buying plenty are clearly enough to sustain the high prices. Oh, and the dress is pretty cool, you should get that.

[ksoh75]

I don't know Necron2.0 you could always borrow a dress, take some pics and post them on here. We would then give you our honest opinion on how you look. Promise no laughing either my friend ;)

I can't promise not to laugh......

[mysterex]

I still think that one of the more interesting aspects is how inconsistent the price variance is in NZ and Oz across the range. A range of 119 to 178% on the kits (ignoring the supplies) is huge given the costs associated with producing, shipping and selling the kits should be fairly consistent.

Regardless of what you think about the average price difference between countries I'd be curious to understand GW's reasoning for the price setting variance within a country.

[pauljc]

Oh look, it's one of *these* threads. Again. And yes! *gasp* here's one of *those* replies!

Blah blah blah blaaah, pay or don't. Price is what it is. Clearly, considering GW profits are up, no matter how much you whine, people still keep buying. This will never change. And no, GW is not the devil that hates it's customers. It's just a business. They are allowed to take your hard-earned money, if you give it to them, and not feel bad about it.

Yes, you Aussies have a rough time of it. But apparently it's proportional because you all get paid 50 times what I do.

Lastly, did you know that there have been approximately 500 threads about this topic every day for the last 10 years.

AND STILL GW IS MAKING PROFIT!! Oh the horror..

/sarcasm

[Deadlift]

Yes Paul, but dispite your obvious sarcasm you have agree these types of threads are never going to go away, why ? Because everytime GW jack the prices up there is bound to be an outcry from its customers. I agree with you whole heartedly that if you don't like the prices, don't buy the product. But I hope we don't see that starts impacting games with lack of players and smaller armies etc

[eldargal]

Not to mention that continual price rises beyond inflation and costs will eventually hurt GW and by extension the settings we love.

[Gotthammer]

And if he'd read the data he'd have seen we don't actually get paid more than anyone by a substantial margin.
In fact that was the point of my post, to find out exactly how much of a difference there was rather than going on anecdotal posts like his. Also your "reasoning" fails to take into account the NZ and Japanese markets who earn less but also pay more, and we all have higher costs of living.

[Psychosplodge]

Can you imagine that at some point we may just be left with the Black Library?

[Wolfshade]

An interesting asideis how do you price such items?

1. Do you have your base countries prices and transfer them directly to local currency
2. Do you do as (1) but include an extra % to cover shipping costs
3. Do 1 or 2 but use an overestimate of the conversion rate to account for curreny flux
4. Do you use a proportional pricing structure?

SAB Miller certainly think that 4 is correct way. They believe that entry level beer should be the same amount as about 30 minutes work, in some african countries this is currently at 8-10 hours.

So how long would you work for a box of marines?

In the UK average salary is £26,500, which after tax is somewhere about £20,500. If we assume a 40hr week you have an hourly take come pay of £9.90 so to get a tactical box you'd work 2hr 20mins. Doesn't sound too unreasonable given that the first time you play with them you'll use them for longer than that, not to mention the time building and painting...

[Psychosplodge]

Where do you get that average Wolfie?

[Wolfshade]

Office for National Statistics and that is Year to the End April 2012.

The tax is the basis tax rate not including extra reductions/allowances like pensions, student loans, other salary sacrifice schemes.

The average working week of 40hrs is a slight underestimate based on ONS data

[Psychosplodge]

:) Thanks.

[Wolfshade]

Should have just been lazy and used wikipedia ;)

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah, cause that's necessarily accurate...

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6856250112/h78710540/

[Wolfshade]

Ok doing the similiar with using stats from the ABS, you get
Annual Salary $58375.20, (UK average is $39823.40), less tax, again excluding any offsets but not the superannuation $47,104.73. Again assuming an average 40hr week (though this is a guess as the ABS splits it between Managers and Non-Managers so it is hard to gauge, non-management is just over 40 hours and given there should be more non-managers than managers I feel comfortable with this.) take home pay per hour is £22.62 so the tactical squad costs 2hrs 45mins

[Verilance]

I did a bit of calculation awhile ago and found the price per model when dividing by the minimum wage in each country was roughly the same no matter what country you live in...

sure Aussies have to pay more but they make double what the person on minimum wage here does...

[Gotthammer]

Believe it or not, most people aren't on minimum wage. The average wage of the US, UK Canada and Australia are all quite close to each other when you adjust for relative purchasing power of currency based on cost of living (http://1-million-dollar-blog.com/average-monthly-salary-for-72-countries-in-the-world/). For instance note that Australia has a CPI of 5, whilst the UK is 13, the US is 33 and poor ol' Japan is 3.

[jgebi]

well isn't 40k meant for teens, I don't mean to offend with this but some will so :P. But most teens don't have jobs these days (argue this till hell thaws but they don't) and for people using their pocket money it's not very fair

[Wolfshade]

I think that looking at those who post on this forum, most are older than that.

[Psychosplodge]

It is and isn't, I think it's more for anyone who will buy it. Thought the dumbing down in 3rd probably made it more teen friendly...

[Denzark]

Not to mention that continual price rises beyond inflation and costs will eventually hurt GW and by extension the settings we love.

EG - I can see if GW went down the swanny and took the IP with them, that this would be the case. But, I think their record says thay are astute enoguh players at business, that this would not happen - if they reached a tipping point the prices would come down before they went bust.

Second, the last ditch position of no retreat by GW PLC, would be to sell their most valuable asset - the IP - I assume UK finanical law would compel them to do this, or the administrators would - they can't take it with them when they die. So the IP would live on, with Hasbro/WoC when and if GW was stupid enough to let themselves die...

[jgebi]

hmm yer true I just hate having to wait and wait to build a good army and adults come in with these $3000 armys and smash us just not fun or fair

[Wolfshade]

Believe it or not, most people aren't on minimum wage. The average wage of the US, UK Canada and Australia are all quite close to each other when you adjust for relative purchasing power of currency based on cost of living (http://1-million-dollar-blog.com/average-monthly-salary-for-72-countries-in-the-world/). For instance note that Australia has a CPI of 5, whilst the UK is 13, the US is 33 and poor ol' Japan is 3.

Similiarly, when you take into account the relative purchasing power the price of the units are similiar

[Deadlift]

hmm yer true I just hate having to wait and wait to build a good army and adults come in with these $3000 armys and smash us just not fun or fair

I do sympathise with you that cost does limit younger players, but having more spending power should not equal a better army. Points are points and if you can only afford 500 pts then you only play against 500 pts. Sure the game isn't as balanced as we all would like and the oldies with the higher spending power may have more choice, but spending ability I don't think effects gaming abilty.

However for those on a budget or very little spending power having to play with the same models and units all the time because you can't afford to expand could lead to boredom of the game and eventually leaving the hobby. I would like to see cheaper starter army sets myself that are cheaper so more people can get into the game. It's a glorious fun hobby we have and I would love to see more people playing. The starter sets are a good start but there needs to be more choice.

[Lord of the Dead]

look at the dark vengeance set! 50+ models and the added extras. granted there are not any options but if you were to drop the extras and market a similar set with only plastic. this would help out the players with limited funds and I believe you would see a big boost in sales along with more new players. GW has already shown us they can produce a "budget" model.

[White Tiger88]

As a canadian i can safely say GW loves nothing more then to bend us over and **** us up the *** as hard as they can. Thus why i but only fw....it works out cheaper -_-

[Wolfshade]

As a canadian i can safely say GW loves nothing more then to bend us over and **** us up the *** as hard as they can. Thus why i but only fw....it works out cheaper -_-

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?29346-Price-Comparisons&p=279999&viewfull=1#post279999

Below average.

[White Tiger88]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?29346-Price-Comparisons&p=279999&viewfull=1#post279999

Below average.

Not for long.....We pay 100 bucks for the new big models -_- (Including stormravens) +12% tax.......so ouch

[Wolfshade]

That was based on taxes both on salary and sales, it's only slightly above the average price across all territories

[White Tiger88]

That was based on taxes both on salary and sales, it's only slightly above the average price across all territories

Maybe but they do look over us canadians generally -_-