Arriving From Reserve

[Turner]

After reading through the main rule book and the updated FAQ I couldn't find a definitive answer.

On page 124 of the mini rule book (I might be a different page in the large rule book) in the section labeled Arriving From Reserve it says "At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls. (I only bolded it because it's bolded in the mini rule book, not sure if that's important or not) If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn. If the roll is less than 3 it remains in reserve and is rolled for again next turn."


Slightly further down the page it says "If for some reason a model's maximum move is insufficient to fit the entire model onto the board, or it becomes Immobilised itself whilst moving onto the board, place the model so that its rear end is touching the board edge - the model cannont move further during the Movement phase, nor may it shoot, Run or move Flat out."


Now when I roll a 3 or more any of my opponet's units in reserve, since I can't move them as per page 10 in the mini rule book under the movement phase; "In your turn, you can move any of your units - all of them if you wish - up to their maximum movement distance." Am I correct in assuming they are simply placed so that the rear of each model is touching the board edge? (of course, their board edge, or which ever board edge they arrive from if outflanking)

[Wolfshade]

It is unclear what you are asking.

I think this might be the answer:

You roll for your units at the start of your turn.
Your opponet rolls for their units at the start of their turn.

You do not have Reserve Rolls in your opponents turn unless you have some special rule that allows this.

[Turner]

You do not have Reserve Rolls in your opponents turn unless you have some special rule that allows this.

I think you might be mistaken, since it says you roll for a D6 for each unit in reserve.

My question is do I simply place enemy models (that have arrived from reserve on my turn) so that its rear end is touching the board edge since they cannot move normally during my turn? (Barring some special rule of course)


*Edit* mispelled something!

[Sly]

Are you trolling, or are you serious about completely skipping the huge discussion relating to "do I roll for my opponent's units that are in Reserve", and jumping straight to "after I roll for my opponent's units, how do I place them"?

[Turner]

Wait, are you trolling me? That "huge" discussion would go down something like this.
Player 1: Do I roll for my opponent's units that are in reserve?
Player 2: I am not sure, let me read book.
*opens rule book*
Player 2: It says, At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls.
Player 1: Thank you for clarifiying.

[Dark Severen]

Wait, are you trolling me? That "huge" discussion would go down something like this.
Player 1: Do I roll for my opponent's units that are in reserve?
Player 2: I am not sure, let me read book.
*opens rule book*
Player 2: It says, At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls.
Player 1: Thank you for clarifiying.

/facepalm


HOWEVER... I have just been flicking through the main rule book and have found the definitive answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orMXD_Ijbs

I think that should clear up where YOU place the enemy models...

Edit: May he rest in peace...

[zenjah]

This thread does have a certain trollness to it.

I guess what the thread means to say is, "hey guys look, the reserve rules don't actually specify that you only roll for your own reserve units. It would appear that by RAW you roll for your opponents' units as well! lololol!111."

But the delivery seems to be just asking for an argument. Nobody plays that way. Nobody. And so to just launch right into presuming that is the right way to do it, and ask for details on how it is done is odd.

Since you are the expert on this rule, perhaps you should be telling us how to do it...

[Wolfshade]

As you say at the start of your turn.
In your opponents turn it is not your turn.

[zenjah]

As you say at the start of your turn.
In your opponents turn it is not your turn.

Careful. He does actually have a point about the RAW. It is, in fact, badly written. It even merits a bit of discussion, but I'm not sure that this thread is likely to turn into a reasonable discussion at this point.

Bonus points to anyone who finds the RAW rule that clarifies this situation. I think the vast majority of players agree on the RAI, but the wording does leave some room for confusion.

See also: early debates on whether Player 2 could Assault after Infiltrating on his first turn, since it is not the first "game turn." The FAQs went slightly against common-sense on that one, leaving a non-obvious rule hiding in the vague RAW. It is not entirely unreasonable to call this situation another non-obvious rule hiding in the vague RAW. I say that because I am a pedant, not because I believe it is so.

[Nabterayl]

All right, I'm always game for well-executed pedantry. Stand back, all ye who are enraged by pointless rules debates ...

You wouldn't move your opponent's models; if anything, he would move them instead. Page 124 says, "When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it ..."

"The player" is used a number of times throughout the rulebook with reference to one or more models, and it refers not to the player whose turn it is but to the player who controls the related model. Compare the following instances:


Page 22: "Once all the models in a chargrng unit have rnoved, the player can choose another unit and declare another charge if he wishes."
Page 39: "If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining."
Page 40: "On a 1-2, the unit comes in frorn the table edge to the left of their controlling player's own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on frorn the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right."
Page 51: "Remember that the player can decide that any model in a firing unit is not going to file its weapon, however, if a model does fi.re, it must do so at full effect (so it cannot fire only two shots from its Heavy 3 weapon)."
Page 85: "When moving a Tank, the player can declare that it is going to attempt to Tank Shock instead of moving normally."
Page 90: "If a unit starts its move outside difficult terrain, the player must declare if he wants his unit to try to enter difficult terrain as part of their move."

Thus, even if a player rolls for all units in reserve on that player's turn, each player would still move his or her own models. While it is true that it is not the opponent's turn, it is not true that page 10 restricts movement of a player's own models to that player's own turn. Rather, page 10 authorizes a player to move his or her models during his or her turn. Page 124 - if one's opponent's models can arrive during one's turn - provides the necessary authorization for the opponent to move the opponent's models even though it is not the opponent's turn.

As for whether page 124 does allow an opponent's models to arrive, I think the question turns on whether we have reason to believe that "each unit" actually means "each unit owned by the player whose turn it is." I can't find any textual reason for that.

So my best pedantic answer: yes, each player rolls for each unit in Reserve, but each such unit arriving is moved by the player owning that unit.

[Wolfshade]

Is there not some explaination of player and player turn that covers this?

My rulebook is upstairs and I can't find the energy to move..

[Nabterayl]

Perhaps surprisingly, no. We might look for a rule of construction like, "When the terms "model" or "unit" are used without reference to a player, assume that the model or unit being referred to is that of the player whose turn it is unless the context clearly indicates otherwise" (I think most of us unconsciously use that rule of construction), or "Players never make rolls for their opponent's models unless explicitly stated," and we might expect an amendment to the Reserves rule so that it says, "You must roll a D6 for each of your units being held in reserve," but none of those things is actually printed in the book.

[Wolfshade]

Hmm, it is strange, though I think most of us play with it being implied that that is how reserves work.
Though I am enjoying this pedantry.

[zenjah]

I think most of us play with it being implied that that is how reserves work.

I'll go way out on a limb and suggest that not just most, but all. Nobody plays it the way the OP suggested-- not even he does.

[Wolfshade]

Having read the rules, and moving off my sofa, the rules are quite clear

"At the start of your turn...you must..."

Nothing about your opponent rolling or having to roll. Simples.

[Nabterayl]

Even with your pedant hat on, you don't see anything odd about "At the start of your ... you must roll a D6 for each unit?"

I totally agree that we all know how everybody plays this, but with my pedant hat on, it does appear that you (but not your opponent), on your turn (but not your opponent's), must roll for each unit in reserve (including your opponent's).

With my pedant hat on, I see no reason to read "each unit" as "each of your units."

[Wolfshade]

You are, as usual, quite right. The wording does say each unit. It is not in the faq.

RAW you can force your opponents reserve to arrive on your turn and force them to be stationary.

I think there needs to be an amendment to "you must roll a D6 for each of your units"

[Nabterayl]

You are, as usual, quite right. The wording does say each unit. It is not in the faq.

RAW you can force your opponents reserve to arrive on your turn and force them to be stationary.
Well, I don't know about that. I think that RAW you can force your opponent's Reserve to arrive on your turn, but I think by RAW your opponent is then allowed to move the units that arrived on your turn. While I see no reason to read "each unit" as "each of your units," I do think there is reason to read "the player" (as in, "the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it ...") as "the player controlling the models in question."


I think there needs to be an amendment to "you must roll a D6 for each of your units"
That I agree with.

[droozy]

This is bizarre. seems like the same argument people on the internet use when they discount anothers ideas because of spelling or grammatical errors with their delivery.

[addamsfamily36]

What about the Necron special character Zandrekhs special rule. He allows you to immediately deepstrike a unit held in reserve during your enemys turn after your enemy brings on a unit from reserve. The rule specifically talks about your enemy's turn and bringing on reserves as a reaction to his reserves. This rule would be obsolete if you could bring on reserves in your opponents turn as a normal game action.

[Magpie]

I have to say that is some of the funniest **** I have ever read on the net. You guys are amazing, for a moment you almost had me believing you were serious.

GOLD !

[chicop76]

Page 9 brb

" game turns and player turns"
" in a complete game turn, each player gets a player turn, divided into movement, shooting, and assault phases. One game turn there fore comprises two player turns - one for each palye. Whenever a rule refers to 'a turn' it always means'player turn' unless it specifically refers to a 'game turn'"

Pg. 10 shows you how to properly move. It's even illustrated for you. The green is how you do it and the red is wrong. What you are saying is red and it is wrong. Basically you measure 6" and you move your guy within the 6" you measured from the board edge. When I say within it's the whole model. What you doing is gettin an extra inch. It's even worse if you through flyers in the mix.

Pg 124. Goes into what I said quoted from the book.

" Each model's move is measured from the edge of the battlefield, as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal. This means it is incorrect to place a model on the board touching the edge and then move it"