1000 Point Guard 'League ' List

[Eternus]

Ok guys, have been ordered to take part in our club 40K league, which I wasn't going to do because I have issues with commitment. Suffice to say that it requires each player taking part to play against every other player, and wins are used to determine rankings. I haven't played yhat many games in 6th, and so I am afraid...

It's 1000 points. I have decided to go with Guard. Here is my draft list. Help...!

Company Command - 135
Colonel has Power Sword, Plasma Pistol & Refractor Field
2 x Plasma Gun
Medic
Vox

Platoon Command - 120
Lt has Power Sword
Commissar
2 x Flamer
Medic
Vox

1 Section - 77
Melta Gun, Autocannon, Vox

3 Section - 87
Melta Gun, Lascannon, Vox

3 Missile Launcher Teams - 90

3 Lascannon Teams - 105

Leman Russ - 205
Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hull Lascannon, Dozer Blade, Storm Bolter

Vanquisher - 180
Hull Lascannon, Storm Bolter

I know there are Tau, Nid and Marine armies to face, so pretty varied, wonder if I have enough Troops units to hold objectives.

Thoughts?

[Colonel Bindoff]

Well first up, you only have one troops choice here. Is that allowed under league rules?

[Eternus]

Well first up, you only have one troops choice here. Is that allowed under league rules?

Damn and blast, that's right. It's gonna be hard to come up with a competative list with just 1000 points. I'll have to drop the Missile Launcher teams to include my Veterans for a second Troops choice. Otherwise I'll end up droppng a tank.

[Colonel Bindoff]

Are you set against using vendettas? You could drop both russes and your las cannon hws, and take meltavets and three vendettas in their place.

I love russes, and two av14 frontages could be good at 1000 points, but I'd suggest dropping the hull lascannons and swapping out the vanquisher at the least. Both have ordnance turrets, so lascannons will be snap firing, and vanquisher is really only useful in big tank battles IMHO.

[Eternus]

Are you set against using vendettas? You could drop both russes and your las cannon hws, and take meltavets and three vendettas in their place.

I love russes, and two av14 frontages could be good at 1000 points, but I'd suggest dropping the hull lascannons and swapping out the vanquisher at the least. Both have ordnance turrets, so lascannons will be snap firing, and vanquisher is really only useful in big tank battles IMHO.

Unfortnately I have no Vendettas, though Vanquisher cannon is heavy, not ordnance, which, with the Lascannon would make it a decent tank hunter. I do have a Punisher I could swap in.

[Colonel Bindoff]

So it is! Less of a concern then. It is a decent tank hunter, the problem is really that its not brilliant at much else: not a deal breaker by any means, but something to consider. I'd drop the medics and personally wouldn't mix long range heavy guns with meltas in the squads, but others do with some success re deep striking dreads etc.

I'd probably drop the lascannons for more troops too: you might have a load of objectives to think about, an you won't want to be moving hw squads about to get them.

[Eternus]

So it is! Less of a concern then. It is a decent tank hunter, the problem is really that its not brilliant at much else: not a deal breaker by any means, but something to consider. I'd drop the medics and personally wouldn't mix long range heavy guns with meltas in the squads, but others do with some success re deep striking dreads etc.

I'd probably drop the lascannons for more troops too: you might have a load of objectives to think about, an you won't want to be moving hw squads about to get them.

Ok, going to have a serious revamp, starting with the Command Squad. What you think of a basic Commander, just a Power Sword, and 4 Sniper Rifles? This makes use of the veterans BS 4, and using the commanders orders, Fire On My Target and Bring It Down could be good I think, and is really cheap overall.

[Colonel Bindoff]

A lot of people write off snipers but I've had some success with them in the past. Some o my regular opponents seem very wary of them because of the allocation rules I guess. Consider all plasma though: three rapid firing plasma guns can put out a lot of hurt (assuming you want to keep the vox network)

[Eternus]

A lot of people write off snipers but I've had some success with them in the past. Some o my regular opponents seem very wary of them because of the allocation rules I guess. Consider all plasma though: three rapid firing plasma guns can put out a lot of hurt (assuming you want to keep the vox network)

I do like the multiple plasma option, a good deterrent unit, but my Plasma shooting rolls are cursed...

[Chexmix282]

I would definitely swap out the Vanquisher for a regular Leman Russ. Even a Punisher would be better. Vanquishers are really expensive for what you get, and Veterans with Meltas or Storm Troopers with Meltas can do a better job for less points.

Do you have any Chimeras? And what do you have to take down Flyers?

[Eternus]

I would definitely swap out the Vanquisher for a regular Leman Russ. Even a Punisher would be better. Vanquishers are really expensive for what you get, and Veterans with Meltas or Storm Troopers with Meltas can do a better job for less points.

Do you have any Chimeras? And what do you have to take down Flyers?

I have one Chimera, a Demolisher, another standard Russ, and a Hellhound. I wonder if a Punisher could be a good anti aircraft weapon?

[Colonel Bindoff]

Punisher with Pask to make it capable of glancing av12, possibly. But its a lot of points to get an average of three glances a turn on stormravens, vendettas and such. There are much better AA options (hydra is great against flyers but next to useless against everything else). You might want to think about getting an Aegis Defence Line - the kit comes with the AA gun and gives a really useful cover save to your troops (potentially ALL your troops too; it's fairly long).

[Chexmix282]

I wonder if a Punisher could be a good anti aircraft weapon?

No, you would be much better off with an Eradicator. Or whichever ones has the TL Autocannons. TL S7/8 is what you want for taking out flyers, unless you have access to Hydras.

I would take something like this (at work and don't have my codex, points might be off):

Company Command Squad w/ Autocannon

Platoon Command Squad w/ Autocannon
2x Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad w/ Missiles
Heavy Weapon Squad w/ Lascannons

Veterans w/ 3 Meltas in a Chimera

Hellhound w/ Multi-melta

Leman Russ
Leman Russ Demolisher

That should be right around 1k, and it should give you a healthy combination of 48" ranged anti-tank and templates. The Command Squads are to be kept cheap and give Bring it Down orders to the Heavy Weapon Squads. The Vets are there to take out heavy armor, and the Hellhound/Demolisher can do so as well in a last resort scenario.

The Demolisher can be exchanged for a regular Russ, but then you have a lack of AP2 and you will likely face Terminators at some point.

[Eternus]

Right chaps, after much consideration and a focus on the fact that this needs to be an all comers list, here is where I find myself:

Company Command - 75 points
Commander with melta bombs (the last of my points bought these)
4 Sniper rifles

This squad is for support, to disrupt the enemy and hit high toughness targets using the Bring it Down order, which allows me to save high strength weapons for hitting armour.

Platoon Command - 50 points
Officer, 4 Flamers.

Pure counter attacking unit, for use vs enemy that break through the infantry squads or flankers.

Infantry Squad - 107 points
Bolt pistol, melta gun, autocannon, Commissar.

Infantry Squad - 70 points
Melta gun, autocannon.

Infantry Squad - 65 points
Autocannon, flamer

These 3 squads will combine to maximise the high Ld of the Commissar. The guns are selected to give high strength punch, but also short range anti armour, plus a flamer for stuff like gaunts and orks about to jump down throat.

Veterans - 100 points
3 melta guns

Chimera - 80 points
Heavy flamer, heavy bolter, dozer, extra armour.

Vets mounted in Chimera to go off tank hunting. Extra armour to help them keep moving for a melta rush.

Leman Russ - 165 points
Lascannon

Demolisher - 180 points
Lascannon

Both tanks to engage key targets, especially vehicles and high save units.

Lascannon Squad - 105 points
3 Lascannons

Lascannons to take the second order from the Company Commander and target enemy armour.


I have selected models subject to advice from various sources and the restrictions of my collection. How am I looking?

[Chexmix282]

I think that the list is great! It has enough firepower and a good infantry/mech balance.

How many points are Hellhounds? If you dropped the Commisar, the meltaguns/pistols/Flamer from the infantry squads, and the Meltabombs from the Commander, would that net you enough points? Maybe even drop the extra armor and the dozer from the chimera. One extra hull on the table makes a HUGE difference in 1,000 point games.

[Eternus]

I think that the list is great! It has enough firepower and a good infantry/mech balance.

How many points are Hellhounds? If you dropped the Commisar, the meltaguns/pistols/Flamer from the infantry squads, and the Meltabombs from the Commander, would that net you enough points? Maybe even drop the extra armor and the dozer from the chimera. One extra hull on the table makes a HUGE difference in 1,000 point games.

A Hell Hound is 140 ish. I'd have to drop the Chimera and a squad to get one in. I think the infantry armour mix is about right for an all comers list like you said, and being as we can't change stuff beween games, I'm forced to learn to get the most out of the list I have, which is a good thing I guess.

[walrusman999]

I just want to say, LR Vanquishers are 155 points as apposed to 150 for a normal Leman Russ. Also Vanquishers are NOT ordnance, and make great anti tank with a lascannon (though an Imperial Armour - Imperial Guard Rapier trumps both of them at 40pts per, ordnance, twinlinked lascannon). And if you want I can link you some PDFs of paper warhammer tanks and such for Imperial guard. There is a Valkyrie (Without guns that you could proxy as a vendetta).

[Eternus]

I just want to say, LR Vanquishers are 155 points as apposed to 150 for a normal Leman Russ. Also Vanquishers are NOT ordnance, and make great anti tank with a lascannon (though an Imperial Armour - Imperial Guard Rapier trumps both of them at 40pts per, ordnance, twinlinked lascannon). And if you want I can link you some PDFs of paper warhammer tanks and such for Imperial guard. There is a Valkyrie (Without guns that you could proxy as a vendetta).

Cool, the paper vehicles sound great, always wanted to try that. As for the Vanquisher, I have toyed with the idea of that instead of the Chimera and an infantry squad, but people said I didn't have enough infantry, and the melta vets were too slow for tank hunting, but I thought the idea of a third av14 tank at 1000 would be scary for anyone to face, especially with a lascannon in the hull as well.

[walrusman999]

Okay here is the link for the paper models http://www.zealot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170912. Prettymuch anything and everything Imperium related is there.

I redid your list a little, I personally favor lots of tanks. And If you can build the valkyries you would have an advantage against your opponents because they are flyers. Just be sure to zoom them most of the time or stay out of range of anything that could kill them if they hover for a turn.

Company Command - 70 points
4 Sniper rifles


Platoon Command - 50 points
4 Flamers


Infantry Squad - 100 points
Flamer, Autocannon, Commissar


Infantry Squad - 65 points
Flamer, Autocannon
---The above 2 Infanty Squads will combine


Infantry Squad - 65 points
Flamer, Autocannon


Veterans - 100 points
3 melta guns
Chimera - 55 points
Heavy flamer, heavy bolter


If you are doing alot of standard book missions you should be fine. If you are going to just play slaughter the opponent then drop the platoon and pick up another veteran squad with chimera with some plasma guns, and have them engage higher toughness targets.


With that, the above list only is 505 points. You have 495 points to play around with. Some dedicated Armour removal would be good. If you are allowed to pull troops from Imperial armour, I will include a 3rd option that, in my opinion, is better then most of these for anti tank.


Option 1:
Heavy support: 495 points
Leman Russ Vanquisher - 180 points
Lascannon
Hunter Killer Missile

Leman Russ Vanquisher - 180 points
Lascannon
Hunter Killer Missile


Fast Attack:
Banewolf - 135
Smoke launchers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Option 2:
Fast attack
Vendetta Gunship - 140 points
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Vendetta Gunship - 140 points
Heavy Bolter Sponsons


Vendetta Gunship - 140 points
Heavy Bolter Sponsons


Troops:
Lose the Chimera and put the veterans in a vendetta. Also Swap the melta guns with Plasma guns. These squads will be to trap opponents in between the veteran squad and another squad of guardsmen.
Veteran Squad - 115
3 plasma guns
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Option 3:
Heavy Support:
Imperial Guard Rapier Carrier Battery (x2) - 92 points (40 points each)
1 extra crewman per gun (6 points per crewman)

Imperial Guard Rapier Carrier Battery (x2) - 92 points (40 points each)
1 extra crewman per gun (6 points per crewman)

I still have 300 points left after the rapiers which get you 2 twinlinked lascannons per squad which roll 2d6 for armour penetration and take the highest.


Fast Attack:
Valkyrie - 110
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Valkyrie - 100
Valkyrie - 100

Valkyrie make great anti infantry with the multi-laser and hellstrike missiles.

[Chexmix282]

Tbh, I would NEVER take a Vanquisher over an Demolisher... nor would I ever take a Valkyrie over a Vendetta. Vendattas are ridiculously powerful in this edition, while Valkyries offer mediocre firepower at best and cannot down flyers easily. The Vanquishers are too much of a one-trick pony. If your opponent has no vehicles, what do they do? Kill 1-2 Orks per turn? for 150 pts? I think I'll pass.

That list you posted should do just fine. I would really try to cut some points (without cutting the Chimera) to squeeze in the Hellhound for additional armor saturation though.

[walrusman999]

Tbh, I would NEVER take a Vanquisher over an Demolisher... nor would I ever take a Valkyrie over a Vendetta. Vendattas are ridiculously powerful in this edition, while Valkyries offer mediocre firepower at best and cannot down flyers easily. The Vanquishers are too much of a one-trick pony. If your opponent has no vehicles, what do they do? Kill 1-2 Orks per turn? for 150 pts? I think I'll pass.

That list you posted should do just fine. I would really try to cut some points (without cutting the Chimera) to squeeze in the Hellhound for additional armor saturation though.

I hate demolishers, you only have a 24" range with the big gun, and its ordnance so you cannot bother to put any other good weapons on it. Plus, at the 24" range, if you don't play your cards right, demolishers get s*** on in CC easily. Really isn't worth scattering 2d6-3, snapshots for everything else, can only move 6 in., and costing more than the vanquisher. Personally I always take vendettas, and my current list fields 3 of them. I also am replacing the Vanquisher I field with Twinlinked Ordnance Lascannons for less, and fielding executioners or some other Leman Russ that doesn't have ordnance, Possibly a punisher because 20 shots.

And if i was playing a list like this I would be fielding my 3 vendettas with another Veteran squad. Don't underestimate the power of a hovering vendetta when there isn't anything that can kill it on the table anymore.

[Eternus]

Tbh, I would NEVER take a Vanquisher over an Demolisher... nor would I ever take a Valkyrie over a Vendetta. Vendattas are ridiculously powerful in this edition, while Valkyries offer mediocre firepower at best and cannot down flyers easily. The Vanquishers are too much of a one-trick pony. If your opponent has no vehicles, what do they do? Kill 1-2 Orks per turn? for 150 pts? I think I'll pass.
That list you posted should do just fine. I would really try to cut some points (without cutting the Chimera) to squeeze in the Hellhound for additional armor saturation though.

Much as I would love to add in a 4th armoured vehicle to this 1000 point list, there just isn't anything I can drop to afford another 140 point vehicle without dropping the Lascannon squad plus the Commissar, and the dozer and extra armour from the Chimera. I know I will be facing at least on Land Raider and an army with a Bastion. I need the punch of the Lascannons, especially combined with the Bring it Down order.

[walrusman999]

You really want to take something that can clear out that bastion, and the landraider won't be an issue, just be sure to put the lascannons and your CCS in line of site to the landraider, I got caught once setting them up behind my aegis line, where my opponent planted a large hill in between the landraider and my lascannons and command squad. remember, your Command squad must be able to draw line of sight to the Landraider to use the bring it down order.

In regards to the bastion, going with your list earlier, get those platoon command with the flamers in the chimera instead of the meltas and rush them over to the bastion and just light it up. Flamers ignore cover so your opponent shouldnt beable to claim much advantage with the bastion, though you will need to read up on attacking structures in the rulebook. I am not too familiar with it myself and am basing this off of, "your opponent gets to pay for a good cover save he can put wherever but its normal terrain."