GW LA bunker downsizing

[billytwix]

Announced on their FB page, https://www.facebook.com/GWLosAngelesBunker?fref=ts

the Los Angeles battle bunker announces closing its doors for 3 days to go from Bunker to a Hobby Center.

Shrinky Shrinky.

[atlas_garon]

That sucks but its business they have to make money to keep existing.

[Maelstorm]

The Chicago Battle Bunker is now less than half the size it was last year, with less inventory ...

[White Tiger88]

Gw care about people who buy from them? Never going to happen......... As long as we keep buying there models they will downsize not caring where you play or anything.

[RGilbert26]

GW is not a play centre so why do you assume you have the right to moan about not being able to play?

[Herzlos]

GW is not a play centre so why do you assume you have the right to moan about not being able to play?

Because the old GW was always making a point of support; the reason you should buy from GW is that they provide the whole supply chain and somewhere to partake in the hobby, hence "Hobby Centres", and a lot of people are happy to pay GW direct prices if they provide somewhere to game.

If GW "Hobby Centres"* are merely small shops with no hobby facilities, what incentive do most have for buying there rather than say online or at an FLGS with 10-20% off the RRP?
Being the one stop hobby shop seemed to benefit GW as well, as it prevents customers finding out about other systems, but maybe they've given up on that due to the internet.

*I'd be surprised if they keep the term "Hobby Centre" long term as it's a blatant misnomer and an image they are trying to get away from.


So essentially, GW stores used to be a place to play and paint, but are now becoming a place to buy and nothing more.

[Defenestratus]

Gw care about people who buy from them? Never going to happen......... As long as we keep buying there models they will downsize not caring where you play or anything.

Or perhaps the location doesn't generate enough revenue to support the capital investment that such a facility requires.

Why is it that when it comes to GW's business decisions, the de-facto assumed motivation behind them is "How do we screw over our customers?" when in fact screwing over their customers is exactly how you don't run a successful business.

[Caitsidhe]

It is my view that we are going to see another shoe drop with the release of the "next" quarterlies (not these that just came out). When a CEO suddenly steps down in combination with odd downsizing in what appears to be a profitable company, it often means the current numbers indicating profits are based almost entirely on estimates of saving and cuts. In other words, the downsizing of the last year and various other bookkeeping activities lead directly to the current quarterly report. I assure you that kept the value of the stocks up long enough for the departing CEO to liquidate his shares at the best sum he could make. You can call me a cynic or paranoid if you like, but this is the pattern seen most often.

A CEO seeing rough weather on the horizon (and said CEO is privy to far more than most) can see to it that the right cuts are made to prop up shares (which almost all CEOs have in ample number as part of their contract) for the sales they make upon departure. The next quarter is going to be the one that is most interesting.

[Tynskel]

Or perhaps the location doesn't generate enough revenue to support the capital investment that such a facility requires.

Why is it that when it comes to GW's business decisions, the de-facto assumed motivation behind them is "How do we screw over our customers?" when in fact screwing over their customers is exactly how you don't run a successful business.

Please tell me how they are screwing over customers? Because 'GW' is expensive? Miniatures from GW are NOT expensive. Try a 'real' hobby, like paintball, shooting, carpentry, or building cars.

[White Tiger88]

GW is not a play centre so why do you assume you have the right to moan about not being able to play?

Go reread the meaning of "Hobby Center" then come back please :)

[Colonel Bindoff]

Stores in the uk are generally a fair bit smaller and it doesn't astonish me to find out that large and presumably expensive stores aren't flavour of the month for The Company. Let's face it, small stores still have a couple of tables, someone to ask about painting etc and usually a decent range of stock. And the target customer often plays with mates in one of their respective houses or at a club anyway, so why provide a large venue for free?

I'm reminded of a shop that opened up here; had ten or so wargaming tables, stocked most systems. Very helpful, would talk to you for hours about tactics, painting, whatever. But was no where near as successful as the little GW down the road with a grumpy manager and an apparent dislike for letting people play. The big store was just a low cost play pen for big kids: people did major shopping online or at places offering more money off.

GW need stores for exposure an to get new punters hooked, not to provide long term support. That's what we all go to clubs and sign up to BOLS for.

[Defenestratus]

Please tell me how they are screwing over customers? Because 'GW' is expensive? Miniatures from GW are NOT expensive. Try a 'real' hobby, like paintball, shooting, carpentry, or building cars.

I think you and I are on the same wave length here.

[Psychosplodge]

the Los Angeles battle bunker announces closing its doors for 3 days to go from Bunker to a Hobby Center.

Shrinky Shrinky.

Think that's bad? They're closing GW Meadowhall completely, it'll be a right ball ache having to park in the city centre instead..

[billytwix]

Oh, I know its bad. sorry your store is closing. my original home store ceased their operations a long time ago. a closer (under 1 hour drive) shop closed last year near my place. the bunker was a 1.5 hour drive for me. i visited there 3 times. too far for me to make the casual free time trip to get a game in or just to stop by and visit. what blew me away was the spectacle of the store. Ohhh the serious armies on display, the cosplay items hung from the walls, the campaign board, the themed tables the miniature GW museum in the corner. so much visual candy to take in.

i hope they open up a few smaller stores preferably one 5 minutes from my house

[Psychosplodge]

Oh they're both the same distance, it's just parking...considering how far you have to go I'll stop complaining, well maybe just complain less...

[Mr Mystery]

And this is why I'm chuffed my local store is no more than 5 minutes gentle stroll out my front door.

Has it's uses, such as early Saturday 'bah, out of glue' disasters.

[Daemonette666]

In Australia, we have had a great many GW stores either relocate, downsize, or close down. Those that are left are only opening on certain days with reduced hours, and on the late night shopping nights they do not open as late.

We have 2 or 3 Battle Bunkers remaining in the Sydney and outer Sydney area, and most of the regular gamers (who go to GW stores) go to them to play their games. Other than that, there has been a moderate resurgence of independent gaming stores with a few old time stores finally closing their doors after decades because did not move to the online stores to back their in store sales and they they did not have gaming tables for gamers to play on.

The big winners are the independent gaming stores that have recently opened up and become a all-in-one store. They have a store to buy all your games, models, rules, scenery, and accessories. They have the gaming tables, may of which are modular, or have cupboards underneath to allow different scenery (different scale) to be set up depending on the game being played. To top it off many are adding a cafeteria or cooking area where food can be purchased and eaten at the dining area and sometimes at or near the gaming tables.

The biggest thing is they have a decent amount of staff who are taught many of the gaming systems (all the popular ones and some of the less popular ones), and they have an attitude where they do not force you to buy all the time. I find my local gaming store to be a home away from home, and since going over the last 2 years I have not purchased much at all from GW stores. I have also expanded into a number of other gaming systems and can almost always get a game from ones system or another. I have expanded into DZC, Dystopian wars and Warhammer Invasion. I still have my older collected armies/games - Classic Battle tech (2 Clusters, a level 5 formation, and 6 mixed regiments) and 40K about 150,000 points spread over 7 Chaos Marine Battle Companies, huge armies for Daemons, Sisters of Battle, Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Arbites, Traitor Guard, Sisters of Silence, Primarchs and the Emperor, Sisters of Battle, Female Space Marines, Pre-heresy Thousand Sons, and dozens of Super Heavies and Fliers for them all).

Now most of my 40K collection has been purchased over the last seven years from either my local gaming store, Forge World, Overseas 40K traders (before GW stopped that) or from Ebay. About 1/10th of it all was bought from actual GW stores in Australia.

I personally have found more reasons to stay away from GW stores than go to them. I got sick and tired of the constant pressure from GW staff to buy the latest stuff. When I would not buy, they lost interest in me and almost ignored me when I wanted advice on a colour scheme, painting tips or tactical advice. When they decided to keep their prices high after the Australian dollar rose in value, and then stopped all European suppliers from exporting to Australia, I finally decided to look elsewhere to both buy and play my games.

Hopefully we will see more and more large Gaming stores open up in cities around the world similar to my local store and the new one opening up in Melbourne where they provide a full service gaming experience where you can eat, play games, card and board games, organise events and tournaments with the store owner, or just sit around and work on hobby and painting with free advise (no need to pay for painting lessons).

My local gaming store is 400 meters from my door step, so less than a 5 minute walk. Which is good because I can always go home and grab a board game or something if my planned game gets cancelled.

[gendoikari87]

Please tell me how they are screwing over customers? Because 'GW' is expensive? Miniatures from GW are NOT expensive. Try a 'real' hobby, like paintball, shooting, carpentry, or building cars.

STFU models from other companies not related to gaming cost half as much for the same quality. I actually priced some, and it's frankly disgusting. If you want to make the argument that the books and rules are expensive to produce fine, but put that cost into the books.

[Digitarii]

The fact that GW is downgrading the LA Battle Bunker is mildly upsetting to me, as I go there during my once per month visit to see my Fiancee in Fullerton. I really only go in to pick up White Dwarf and the occasional model, but it was a good place to watch a game or discuss games with other players while my Fiancee would shop at other stores. I have trouble justifying buying models from them when I can buy it from Ebay or Amazon for 20 or 30 percent less.

[robrodgers46]

I only went to the Bunker once, it was kind of gross. My trusty FLGS is a far superior place to play, and if you want the larger experience there are some non-GW stores not far away that have similar amounts of tables and far superior customer service.

[Zeshin]

Which places might these be? I've lived in Orange County for a couple decades and the bunker was the only store locally I know I know of that had more than 2 or 3 tables. Would be nice to have an alternative, and if that alternative allowed non GW games than even better.

[billytwix]

I hear there is a pretty serious shop out in Pasadena. GMI games in riverside is pretty deece. nice shop owner, pretty ok crowd. good mix of games. but that shop is still a 45 min trip for me. i wish there was something in redlands. i was so disappointed when i discovered comic Quest was basically a graphic novel/sticker shop only. I'd still put dragon's lair ATX as one of the best all around stores i've ever been in. IN MY LIFE.

[Zeshin]

Comic quest has a pretty decent games section now with WM GW a bunch of battletech minis and all the random other crap you'd expect (malifaux, infinity, reaper etc) and they have run a few fun small tournaments. But yeah they have no dedicated game tables during normal business hours.

Unfortunately I'm closer to south OC than north so the bunker was a little bit a drive for me and Pasadena or the like is just out of the question.

[Denzark]

What if GW thought the customers were screwing them over? The Battle Bunker Denizens come in, leave crap everywhere the staff have to spend time cleaning up, stink the place out thus discouraging new customers from Mums and Dads who want a creative hobby for little Timmy but see a load of sweaty geeks. It costs power and resources. And then the sales revenues are crap because, much as people claim loyalty to FLGS, they are NOT repeat NOT buying direct from store out of loyalty for the gift of tables. They go home and buy from internet shops like the rest of us. So actually the shop is now efficient in terms of outlay to return. Good business sense.

[robrodgers46]

Which places might these be? I've lived in Orange County for a couple decades and the bunker was the only store locally I know I know of that had more than 2 or 3 tables. Would be nice to have an alternative, and if that alternative allowed non GW games than even better.

Well, if you are in South OC, there is a Game Empire in San Diego. Closer than Pasadena. Both of those stores are better than the Bunker, imho.

The best place to play is in Santa Monica. A real haul for you.

[Daemonette666]

What if GW thought the customers were screwing them over? The Battle Bunker Denizens come in, leave crap everywhere the staff have to spend time cleaning up, stink the place out thus discouraging new customers from Mums and Dads who want a creative hobby for little Timmy but see a load of sweaty geeks. It costs power and resources. And then the sales revenues are crap because, much as people claim loyalty to FLGS, they are NOT repeat NOT buying direct from store out of loyalty for the gift of tables. They go home and buy from internet shops like the rest of us. So actually the shop is now efficient in terms of outlay to return. Good business sense.

The Sydney and Parramatta (NSW , Australia) Battle Bunkers have 2 sections. one for general gaming with between 4 and 5 tables, the other half is where the store, hobby and demonstration games are held. The gamers were generally pretty good about putting their rubbish in the bins provided. Mind you I have not been to either store for about a year or more.

[Mr. Furious]

Thank goodness we still have all of the Privateer Press hobby centers! We'll show GW by never going to their stupid, downsized stores again!

Oh, wait.....Privateer Press and the other game companies expect us to find our models at local shops and online and then find our own places to play. Why does everyone expect GW to spoon feed us our chosen hobby and provide us everything we need(including a location and friends) to play?

[Denzark]

Because........
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.
.
.
GW is SATAN!

[Caitsidhe]

Because........
.
.
.
.
GW is SATAN!

No; Satan has a plan. :) GW is Shub-Niggurath, “The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young." :)

[Caitsidhe]

Thank goodness we still have all of the Privateer Press hobby centers! We'll show GW by never going to their stupid, downsized stores again!

Oh, wait.....Privateer Press and the other game companies expect us to find our models at local shops and online and then find our own places to play. Why does everyone expect GW to spoon feed us our chosen hobby and provide us everything we need(including a location and friends) to play?

Oddly enough most gaming stores I buy at provide ample (up to 10x as much) gaming area as a GW store. Ample Privateer goes on there as does Warhammer (40K and Fantasy). It seems to me that game stores seem to understand the connection between providing ample gaming space and sales. Go figure.

[Denzark]

Oddly enough most gaming stores I buy at provide ample (up to 10x as much) gaming area as a GW store. Ample Privateer goes on there as does Warhammer (40K and Fantasy). It seems to me that game stores seem to understand the connection between providing ample gaming space and sales. Go figure.

Can you please explain the connection to me - because in 23 years of doing this I have wargamed in a games store exactly twice...

[Caitsidhe]

Can you please explain the connection to me - because in 23 years of doing this I have wargamed in a games store exactly twice...

Sure. Kerstan and I are both from the same area. We can go to Austin. We can go to San Antonio. Both cities have several game stores, i.e. vendors who sell lots of different types of games. The most prominent in our area are Dragonslair and Alien Worlds. Both companies have multiple locations too. Both companies provide lots of gaming tables. The Dragonslair I frequent provides rooms and tables for up 8-10 games at any given time (more if other tabletop roleplaying and card games aren't using them). There is no fee for this hospitality. They also provide terrain for the tables. Both of these stores sell MOST of the Warhammer product moved in their respective cities (San Antonio does have a GW store if that puts it in context). The other places (and there are several) also provide gaming tables. There is a CLEAR correlation between the most successful of these stores and how much gaming room and support they provide to the hobby. Stores that do not provide much in the way of room or support don't get near the business. What lessons can we draw from this? People pay where they play.

[Mr. Furious]

Oddly enough most gaming stores I buy at provide ample (up to 10x as much) gaming area as a GW store. Ample Privateer goes on there as does Warhammer (40K and Fantasy). It seems to me that game stores seem to understand the connection between providing ample gaming space and sales. Go figure.

But is your game store producing the product, marketing it and distributing it internationally? GW makes the game and the things we need to play it. I just don't think it's their job to give us a place to play it as well.

[Denzark]

Neither do I - neither do they, and they have heads well above water in a recession... Caitsidhe I have out £ks in GWs pocket over the years and has had nothing to do with their shops letting me play.

[Maine]

Can you please explain the connection to me - because in 23 years of doing this I have wargamed in a games store exactly twice...

Not everyone likes to game in stores, but there are many people who do. When you get people gaming in the store, and you have enough regulars coming back, then a community forms. Once you have a community, one or more clubs may form as the community tries to organize itself. Often this community and clubs become protective of the store, to the point that they internally encourage their members to purchase from that store rather than elsewhere. These communities and clubs can be the driving force behind events that can result in spontaneous sales. Grassroots events like this that are driven by the community rather than the store can also be more willingly accepted than store-planned events.

I have fond memories hanging out on weekend days at Aero Hobbies in Santa Monica, when I lived up in the west Los Angeles area. Made a lot of friends, bought a lot of product, played far more games than I would have if I had to find players via other means, and no room for a decent sized gaming table in my apartment.

The 40k/Fantasy club there, Aero Boyz, has held many events, including multiple 'Tale of Many Gamers' painting leagues which usually result in a sudden increase in spending at the store. I know this is the case with the Warhammer Fantasy TOMG event which saw about 15 people spending $400+ each over the course of a few months to buy in to WFB. That's $6000 of purchases that might not have happened otherwise.

[Caitsidhe]

But is your game store producing the product, marketing it and distributing it internationally? GW makes the game and the things we need to play it. I just don't think it's their job to give us a place to play it as well.

<laughs> I never said it was their duty to do anything. I said their recent actions and attitude are stupid. While there are exceptions to every rule, people tend to pay where they play. Games Workshop doesn't owe us anything. They WANT something from us. It is up to them to figure out how to sell more stuff. Their deluded belief that the best use of their money (in the United States at least) is to have tiny little stores for recruitment and sales while not providing general gaming area is hilarious. Perhaps this works in places where "games stores" aren't common. Perhaps this works where they are the only game in town. In places where the customer is used to being pandered to and provided a place to gather and play, it doesn't cut the mustard.

Why would I pay the same or more to play in a small store that doesn't give me the same options as one that provides ample gaming space, organizes regular tournaments, leagues, and does its best to make sure I can walk in on any given day and there is someone to play me a game? Now consider "impulse buying." If I spend all day in a store that sells gaming stuff while I play the game, doesn't it stand to reason that the odds go UP that I might buy something? :) It is a basic sales fact that the longer someone is in a store, the more likely they are to buy something. This is true before you even start considering the POWERFUL force of loyalty to a local store that has become perceived to be going out of its way for you.

I don't care what Games Workshop does with its stores. My only experiences with their locations have been negative. I don't shop from them. :) I pay where I play.

[Mr Mystery]

Short sighted I'm afraid.

As you espouse, Indies do it better. Indies also stock competition. So run your store as a recruitment centre, and get people loyal to the band. Beyond that it doesn't matter if they game and buy elsewhere.

Indeed, Gw make more from selling via indie than their own stores, for reasons I assume are self explanatory.

[Caitsidhe]

Short sighted I'm afraid.

As you espouse, Indies do it better. Indies also stock competition. So run your store as a recruitment centre, and get people loyal to the band. Beyond that it doesn't matter if they game and buy elsewhere.

Indeed, Gw make more from selling via indie than their own stores, for reasons I assume are self explanatory.

They make a LOT more from the Indies than they do their own stores in the United States. I have no knowledge of the breakdown elsewhere. The problem with the "recruitment" theory is that it assumes people in the States are going into GW stores to get recruited. Most people don't take their kids into Games Workshop stores. They take them to gaming stores. Most people with children look to cut corners, not increase how much they have to spend. More to the point, in the United States, Warmhammer Fantasy and 40K are and ADULT game. The demographics of who plays and why in the United States appear to be VASTLY different from across the pond. What works in the U.K. isn't going to work here. I wouldn't open up a store in the U.K. and assume what works here would work there either.

[Mr Mystery]

You're only looking for a better deal once you're involved though.

GW stores recruit, and churn out GW Hobbyists. Eventually they will figure out they can buy slightly cheaper elsewhere. By then, GE Store is recruiting more new blood. And don't forget, you'll spend a fair old chunk getting into this hobby, so the store continues to justify it's placement.

[Caitsidhe]

You're only looking for a better deal once you're involved though.

GW stores recruit, and churn out GW Hobbyists. Eventually they will figure out they can buy slightly cheaper elsewhere. By then, GE Store is recruiting more new blood. And don't forget, you'll spend a fair old chunk getting into this hobby, so the store continues to justify it's placement.

That is the theory. I'm saying they don't recruit with any kind of percentage that could be considered successful here in the States. What I'm am suggesting is they are continuing to cut back the stores, hours, etc. because they aren't making enough money to support them. Eventually they will eliminate them altogether when they discover that said stores aren't doing anything for them long term either. I'm more than willing to defer that their policies and plan works fine in the United Kingdom (and perhaps in other countries). It doesn't work here. The American market and how you try to appeal to them simply isn't the same and trying to apply a square peg to a round hole isn't going to work. I've never seen a company so stubbornly intent on just getting a BIGGER MALLET to solve the problem. Instead of adapting to the different market, they just double down on. It is called throwing good money after bad.

[Mr Mystery]

I dunno.

They piloted a one man store scheme here in Britain. Closed Monday and Tuesday. It didn't affect takings, but of course improved profitability. Now several two man stores that I'm aware of do the same, and it's actually improved takings, as you can offer a more consistent level of customer service.

Will this work in the US? Buggered if I know. But it's worth trying as one can always back up.

[Caitsidhe]

I dunno.

They piloted a one man store scheme here in Britain. Closed Monday and Tuesday. It didn't affect takings, but of course improved profitability. Now several two man stores that I'm aware of do the same, and it's actually improved takings, as you can offer a more consistent level of customer service.

Will this work in the US? Buggered if I know. But it's worth trying as one can always back up.

My personal view is that it won't. It can't "hurt" sales, but it won't help their bottom line due to overhead. What I am saying that the overhead of even the cut back stores will far outstrip any possible benefit here. My view is that in the U.S. they are better off just dealing through the Indies entirely unless they want to provide the kinds of things the Indies provide from a game play perspective.