Dark Angels Apothecary question

[Kaijne]

The Dark Angels command squad options let you create an apothecary by replacing a power fist with a narthecium for some points. Later on in the list of upgrades, it allows you to trade out all weapons for a thunder hammer and a storm shield for some other points.

My question is, can i give my guy the apothecary upgrade and then trade in his weapons for the thunder hammer and storm shield?

the narthecium is wargear, not a weapon, so i should be able to have a TH/SS Apothecary that still has the narthecium and thus the feel no pain rule?

Does this logic track or am i reading too much into the rules?

[icec0ld]

The Dark Angels command squad options let you create an apothecary by replacing a power fist with a narthecium for some points. Later on in the list of upgrades, it allows you to trade out all weapons for a thunder hammer and a storm shield for some other points.

My question is, can i give my guy the apothecary upgrade and then trade in his weapons for the thunder hammer and storm shield?

the narthecium is wargear, not a weapon, so i should be able to have a TH/SS Apothecary that still has the narthecium and thus the feel no pain rule?

Does this logic track or am i reading too much into the rules?

Sadly I believe no.

The narthecium specifically is stated to replace a Terminators powerfist. By upgrading to a Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield you lose the weapon it needs to replace.

An example of the way this works is found by comparing the Assault Cannon to the Cyclone missile Launcher.

A cyclone is a straight up "take", allowing additional weapon replacement since the cyclone replaces nothing.
The Assault Cannon replaces a storm bolter and therefore requires a Storm Bolter be present to replace.

Hope this helps you understand it better.

Simply put, no you can't have a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield on the Apoth but it wont prevent you from taking such upgrades on other unit members to keep him alive :)

[Houghten]

By rules-as-written, yes (it doesn't say "replace his storm bolter and power fist with a thunder hammer and storm shield," it says "replace his weapons with a thunder hammer and storm shield").

By rules-as-intended, I don't know. It was certainly something you could do in the last codex and I'd hate to think my lightning-claw Apothecary conversion is now invalid.

[Chaoschrist]

Isn't it so, that if you upgrade your terminator to an apothecary it's no longer a "terminator" but a "terminator apothecary", hence it is not a normal terminator anymore and does not qualify for upgrades. There's a reason why it has a seperate statline.

[Houghten]

But the claws and hammers are an "any model" upgrade... aren't they?

*checks his codex*

Nope, they are in the Deathwing Terminators squad, but in the Deathwing Command Squad they're an "any Terminator" upgrade.

*shakes his fist at the sky* VETOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!

[Tynskel]

yeah, the champion and apothecary are characters with different rules than the rest of the squad.

This is very important: your standard bearer is not a character, and does not get the benefits of Look Out Sir, Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh, rules.

[Kaijne]

Ok, i wasn't completely sure, but the upgrading the Apothecary to an apothecary makes him a different sort of guy and thus not a deathwing terminator. That keeps him from being able to use the second upgrade option. I have a TH/SS Apothercary from last edition as well, so i guess he just became a regular terminator again. oh well, there's always other things to do.

[Tynskel]

yeah, GW has been stripping apothecaries of their wargear. For the most part, it makes sense. Their primary duty is health, not war. Sanguinary Priests are an exception, however, even novices in the Blood Angels are still Apothecaries first.