Bringing Forgeworld to Tournament Play, lets do it! Lets also be smart about it!

[Flammenwerfer13]

Something that I've talked about and have seen kicked around on and offline is the inclusion of 'Warhammer 40k Approved' Stamp Forgeworld units and models in a tournament scene. The three biggest factors against the inclusion of FW I keep hearing/reading are 'XXXXX' unit is broken and nerfs my Army ability to beat it, it turns into 'Buyhammer', and lack of easy access to rules. There are several ways to address these issues though like anything in life you can't make all the issues go away just find the best balance to approach this situation.

Now I think there are several ways we as a community could go about easing FW models into the tournament scene.
1. FW Units, no FW Army Lists
2. Limit FW models to one unit per Army List, with prior TO approval is applicable.
3. Have a internet or something similar accepted list of FW models that are deemed to too broken, for now, to be played in a tournament setting. This list would be exclusive and a generally agreed that they should be excluded as otherwise all FW units are allowed. This list would along the lines of the INAT or Nova Open/Bay Area Open Rule sets. Something that is generally know, accepted and tweaked often.
4. Mandate that if you bring a FW unit you have the rules ready to share with your opponent.
5. Tournament Organizers using the above means would take feed back on units and share info and hopefully we as a community can become more comfortable with FW.


This should as a group effort to better easy the apprehension a lot of you have with FW.

So the question remains will the Big Tournament organizers like Adepticon, NOVA, Warsgamecon, and Bay Area Open to name a few put their heads together maybe come out with a list of excluded FW models and maybe limit it to one unit per Army. To see how it works out?

[Kawauso]

Okay, I'll bite.

Now I'm not a competitive player and never have/likely never will attend a tournament...but what's with the weird attitude towards FW stuff? Even whenever I see people trying to be 'progressive' in allowing FW models/rules, as you are here, there's always this strange sense of trepidation.

Like, why the 'banned' models or the 1-unit limit in your list? The majority of FW units seem pretty in-line with what you'll find in a given codex, and many units are over-priced. If you stay out of Apocalypse units (which you would in a normal game, right? Allowing FW doesn't mean allowing super-heavies, etc.) there doesn't really appear to be anything that's unprecedented compared to what's in a number of regular codices.

I have a hard time understanding how the addition of FW units to a game can be any less balanced than a number of well-known go-to choices like Vendettas, missile Long Fangs, Psyfleman Dreads, etc. If there would be a list of 'broken' models from FW, why not include 'broken' units from various GW books that are tough to fight?

And obviously you should have the rules there for your opponent to reference - isn't that just common good sportsmanship? Like letting them check a unit entry in your codex if they're not too familiar with it?


I realize I may not have a tournament player's perspective on this matter, but it just seems like there's always a big deal being made about nothing on this subject.

[OrksOrksOrks]

The problem tournament players have is that introducing more choice limits their ability to build lists that will be massivly overpowered as far as I can see!

The complain about the few units that they say are undercosted, and yet, they don't complain about the same thing when it happens in the codexes, the real problem is, they're playing a different game to the one that has been designed, GW and especially FW add new fluffy units and cool models as they like, because it keeps the game interesting to the majority of players, but it isn't what "tournament" minded Win At All Costs players care about, that's fair enough and its their hobby, but it will mean that the rules don't always suit what they want to do.

[Popsical]

40konline have been running such a tournie for several years now.
Every now and then someone complains about fw units which is daft really.
My best mate went with a pure fw orc list from kastrol novem book and finished 2nd to last out of 30 people.
So over powered eh?
I agree with the above. The detractors are the players who want to waac and dont like to face units that may surprise them and ruin their day.
Kill joys.

[OrksOrksOrks]

This having been said, if the tournament is a competitive environment and they want to play a rigid and more controlled set of rules, then, I suppose FW units aren't exactly for them, they're complex and the rules aren't even as tight and well written as the 40K rules, which aren't the clearest things in the world in the first place, so with that in mind, maybe FW don't belong in the big tournaments, and they should just be used by those of us who enjoy the more casual and fun side of 40K?

[SotonShades]

I have been to as many tournaments that allow FW units as ones that don't. The result; well, I always do badly, regardless of whether I have FW lists or not. Top tables; don't think I have ever seen a winning list with any FW in it, aside from things like Dreadnoughts and Manticores. All units that are just nicer models for codex entries.

As for the rules being harder to get hold of... Not really. Ok, so you can't walk in to GW and pick up the book off the shelf, but you can order them from in store and have it delivered to the store or your own home, just like any other GW merchandise. I'm sure a few of the very serious tournament players buy every codex so that they can know all the rules for everything, but I would imagine the vast majority of players learn the rules for armies other than their own by playing against them and trusting their opponent or leafing through their opponent's codex. Same thing happens with FW units and lists. If you can't turn up to the tournament with the relevant rules in hand, then you shouldn't be using that unit/list. That should apply whether you have GW or FW models.

Obviously, no super-heavies, no Apocalypse only units, same as you don't pick units from the Apocalypse/Reload books for your army. That is just common sense. But everything else? Fair game. Don't like the Lucius Drop Pod? Take an Aegis line with the lascannon, or anything else with the interceptor special rule. Ignore the pod and shoot the Dreadnought. You know, just in case you get drawn against the possibly three or four armies that might take one.

[imperialpower]

Yea I think the problem with FW units is just the lack of knowledge since not everybody has a collection of expensive Imperial Armour books when someone plonks down a weird model you have never heard of that just so happens to be rather good it obviously stops the game as you ask to see said rules for the unit I think the problem comes when rules are not there to hand or someone has the rules scribbled on there army list or something. That is my problem with FW models or any for that matter where I can't easily just ask to see the ruels printed in black and white with 40k stamped on it.

[Popsical]

I dont own any of the codexs that i have no army for. I only currently have 3.
I know bugger all about the rest. Yet it is expected that i must have knowledge of the rest or its my fault.
Yet anti fw folk are not expected to know fw rules. 9 codexs cost 270 quid but oh no fw costs too much.
If the players have rules to hand for what they are using it should be fair game.
You can browse before the game and adapt. Simples.
Just like i have to do with codexs.

[DarkLink]

The problem tournament players have is that introducing more choice limits their ability to build lists that will be massivly overpowered as far as I can see!
.

Wrong. I don't have anything nice to say about your ignorant, judgemental attitude, so I'll leave it at that.

[The Sovereign]

Signed. FW makes anything better.