Caestus and ramming

[Popsical]

The caestus is the only flyer which can ram, but can it ram flyers?
My opinion is that it can, two things back this up:
1. The caestus is designed to ram ships etc and ramming in air combat has occurred regularly in history.
2. In the ceastus' rules it clearly states it can take a save versus damage from ramming and being rammed.
As it is a flyer and cant be rammed by ground units it stands to reason that it must be being rammed by another caestus as these are the only aircraft capable of rammimg.
Opinions welcome folks.

[walrusman999]

Is there really anything stopping, say a Stormraven, from ramming a Caestus, outside of the save the Caestus gets? I don't think there is a rule against flyers, which are vehicles, ramming like any normal land vehicle.

[Nabterayl]

Is there really anything stopping, say a Stormraven, from ramming a Caestus
Yes. A Stormraven is not a Tank.

From a rules standpoint, I don't think a Caestus can ram a Zooming flyer. We already know that a Tank can't tank shock a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature (see the BRB FAQ), so I think we can safely infer that you couldn't tank shock a Zooming Flyer, either (though I can find no rule specifying as much). Since the Caestus rams "in exactly the same way as a Tank [even] when Zooming," a Caestus can't ram a Zooming flyer unless a Rhino can.

From a fluff standpoint ... do we ever see Caestuses ram other small craft? Ramming a spaceship is quite another matter, given how large 40K starships are.

[walrusman999]

Yes. A Stormraven is not a Tank.

From a rules standpoint, I don't think a Caestus can ram a Zooming flyer. We already know that a Tank can't tank shock a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature (see the BRB FAQ), so I think we can safely infer that you couldn't tank shock a Zooming Flyer, either (though I can find no rule specifying as much). Since the Caestus rams "in exactly the same way as a Tank [even] when Zooming," a Caestus can't ram a Zooming flyer unless a Rhino can.

From a fluff standpoint ... do we ever see Caestuses ram other small craft? Ramming a spaceship is quite another matter, given how large 40K starships are.

Indeed, I wasn't aware ramming was only a tank thing, I thought it was just for any vehicle.

[Popsical]

Yes. A Stormraven is not a Tank.

From a rules standpoint, I don't think a Caestus can ram a Zooming flyer. We already know that a Tank can't tank shock a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature (see the BRB FAQ), so I think we can safely infer that you couldn't tank shock a Zooming Flyer, either (though I can find no rule specifying as much). Since the Caestus rams "in exactly the same way as a Tank [even] when Zooming," a Caestus can't ram a Zooming flyer unless a Rhino can.

From a fluff standpoint ... do we ever see Caestuses ram other small craft? Ramming a spaceship is quite another matter, given how large 40K starships are.

Yes we do. Rhino? Landspeeder? Far smaller than an aircraft.
Add to this the inherant risk in ramming a ground target and surviving, the ground, it wins all rams.
Ramming other aircraft has been the last resort of out of ammo planes from ww1 onward.

[Nabterayl]

Fair enough. I guess that does make it seem silly not to be able to ram other Zooming flyers. The closest read still comes out as a no, I think, but I'd certainly accept it personally.

[bradpowers]

Page 80 of the BRB:

Zooming Flyers cannot Tank Shock or Ram nor can they be Tank Shocked or Rammed.

Now, the Caestus gets around this, according to Page 30 of IA: Aeronatica:

Despite being a Flyer, a Caestus Assault Ram may make Ram attacks in exactly the same way as a Tank when Zooming.


So, the Caestus can ram, but because of the rule against zooming flyers being rammed, it cannot ram another (zooming) flyer. I can't find anything that says you can't tank shock a flying Monstrous Creature...

[Popsical]

Well done powers. So what can ram a flyer if it doesnt zoom?
Now do flyers always zoom?
Can a rhino ram a flyer at 60 feet that is using rapell ropes to drop infantry?

[Nabterayl]

Well, Hovering flyers are not Zooming, no. And yeah, Hovering flyers can be rammed, just like any other Fast Skimmer.

[OrksOrksOrks]

You can only Ram Flyers that are in Hover Mode, Zooming Flyers can not be Rammed at all, any Tank can Ram them and a Ceatus can Ram like a Tank

[Mr.Pickelz]

The Ork Blitza-Bommer use to be able to Kamikaze into stuff with his dive bombing table, however this has been nerfed with the Errata for Orks. :(

[Nabterayl]

The Ork Blitza-Bommer use to be able to Kamikaze into stuff with his dive bombing table, however this has been nerfed with the Errata for Orks. :(

Where do you see that?

[Houghten]

If you compare the White Dwarf with the current Orks FAQ, it's gone from crashing with a S9 AP2 large blast to a regular ol' S6 AP-, which isn't really even adequate to cover a normal flier getting shot out of the sky (though that's what it's for), let alone one deliberately racing towards the ground at top speed.

[Nabterayl]

If you compare the White Dwarf with the current Orks FAQ, it's gone from crashing with a S9 AP2 large blast to a regular ol' S6 AP-, which isn't really even adequate to cover a normal flier getting shot out of the sky (though that's what it's for), let alone one deliberately racing towards the ground at top speed.
Maybe I'm just totally blind, but ... can you quote that? I don't see it in this FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940049a_Orks_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf).

[Houghten]

Page 72 – Blitza-bommer, Faster! Waaagh! Uh oh....
Replace this entry with “No bomb is dropped. The Blitza- bommer smashes into the ground and is Wrecked (see Crash and Burn in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook).

[Nabterayl]

Huh ... was that in 1.1 and I just missed it? Or should it be magenta and was erroneously printed as black?

[Houghten]

It was in 1.1. I've been whining about it for a while.

Edit: In fact, it was in 1.0.