Is there a point to having more than one frost blade?

[Tyrsday]

My question is, as stated above, whether there is any point to taking more than one frost blade for a character? In the old Interactive Army Builder put out by GW a character with more than one had S6 attacks, but that program was riddled with so many holes and errors that its legitimacy is questionable, but would be hella cool if that were the case.

Besides gaining an extra close combat attack, which could be gained with a pistol or ccw, there seems to be no point to it, which seems a shame b/c the image of a Wolf Lord in the throes of a bezerker rage wielding two frost weapons fits the great company theme I'm going for to a tee.

The rules for it state that it is a power weapon that gives the user +1S in CC, so would two give the user +2? I know that a second Power Fist doesn't double that initial doubling of S (to a max of 10), but that second PF is needed to gain the extra CC attack which isn't needed for power weapons. So there lies my conundrum. Thanks.

[Nabterayl]

I'd say no. The question to be answered is this: does a frost weapon add to the bearer's Strength just by virtue of being carried, or only by virtue of being used? To put it another way, if an S4 character has a power fist and a frost axe, and attacks using the power fist, does he attack at S8, or S9?

I think the answer is that a frost weapon has to be used to grant the +1S. First look at the power fist wording on page 42 of the main rulebook:


A power fist ... doubles the user's Strength.

As you say, everybody agrees that if you have two power fists, you only double your Strength once. Now look at the frost weapon wording on page 57 of the Space Wolves codex:


all frost blades or frost axes ... add +1 to the user's Strength.

The wording tracks that of the power fist rule exactly (i.e., "user's Strength"). Therefore, the same construction should apply - you only get +1S from a frost weapon if you're using it. This, in turn, means that two frost weapons do not add +2S (since, per page 42, you can only gain the bonuses and penalties of one special weapon at a time, even if you're wielding two).

By way of constructive contrast, look at the wording of the scorpion chainsword from page 33 of the eldar codex:


This is a one-handed weapon that adds +1S to the model's attacks.

A scorpion chainsword gives you +1S whether you're using it or not, as it says "the model's" attacks.

As for the double frost axe-wielding berserker, I'll note that there's nothing actually stopping you from modeling a second chain axe on your wolf lord. Rules-wise there is no difference between a wolf lord with a frost axe and bolt pistol and a wolf lord with frost axe, bolt pistol, and CCW. The latter build is impossible, of course, but if it were possible, it would be exactly the same as the legal frost axe + pistol build. Hence nobody should have any cause to complain about your model not being WYSIWYG.

[orklord2007]

If you choose to purchase your wolf lord 2 frost axes then you would gain +2 strength from them

the wording that was used earlier was a incomplete part of a full sentance that stated regardless of the frost weapon being a sword or axe they all confer +1 strength and act as power weapons. if you use the frost axe and a power fist , you go last in combat and strike at strength 9 ( strength 4 doubled then +1 for the frost axe)or go in initiative order and hit at strength 5(4 +1 for the axe)

[slxiii]

If you choose to purchase your wolf lord 2 frost axes then you would gain +2 strength from them

the wording that was used earlier was a incomplete part of a full sentance that stated regardless of the frost weapon being a sword or axe they all confer +1 strength and act as power weapons. if you use the frost axe and a power fist , you go last in combat and strike at strength 9 ( strength 4 doubled then +1 for the frost axe)or go in initiative order and hit at strength 5(4 +1 for the axe)

you can only gain the bonuses from one special weapon at a time

[AirHorse]

Hmm, i think I would have to agree that having two frost blades gives you +2 strength if you use them based on the wording. Wether this was intentional or not I wont debate but it says "are power weapons that add +1 to the users strength" so if you had twin you would have +2. As to combining with a powerfist, have to reitterate what slxiii has said, it says "users" so you have to be using it to gain the benefit, and you cannot use a powerfist and a power weapon at the same time.

[MarshalAdamar]

slxslxii is correct if you have a lightning claw and a power fist you don't get to strike at I1 but reroll all failed rolls to wound.

If you have two frost blades its counts as having two CCW and you get an extra attack and that’s it. The +1 bonus to STR you only get once.

If you were a guard’s man STR3 and you get a power fist now STR: 6 and you buy a second power fist, you get an extra attack but you are NOT STR12 (well 10 because that’s the max) because you double your STR with your first PF then double your strength again.

I would just model the Wolf lord with two frost axes but buy him with just one frost ax and a bold pistol. You get the extra attack and less points.

[Nabterayl]

As to combining with a powerfist, have to reitterate what slxiii has said, it says "users" so you have to be using it to gain the benefit, and you cannot use a powerfist and a power weapon at the same time.

You can't use any two weapons at the same time, not fully. The second weapon only ever gives you +1A.

The wording for frost weapons is exactly the same as the wording for power fists. If you want to argue that two frost weapons gives you +2S, you need to explain why two power fists doesn't give you 4x Strength.

[AirHorse]

Hmm well that is a point, does this mean if you had a model with two master crafted close combat weapons you can only get one reroll since you arent "using" the second weapon, merely gaining a +1 attack bonus?

[Nabterayl]

Hmm well that is a point, does this mean if you had a model with two master crafted close combat weapons you can only get one reroll since you arent "using" the second weapon, merely gaining a +1 attack bonus?

Correct - two master-crafted CCWs yields one reroll. For an example, see Shrike - he has a "pair" of master-crafted lightning claws, and gets the +1A for having two LCs, but according to the FAQ, he only gets one re-roll.

[orklord2007]

ok i am actually wrong with my previous post.

according to page 42 of the main rulebook(hard copy). under fighting with 2 single handed weapons. if both weapons are the same. the model gains the additional attack but only uses the bonuses of 1 of the special weapon. so in that case you only get +1 strength to the attack. in cases of power fists, lightening claws and thunder hammers the model DOES NOT gain an additional attack for having a second hand weapon UNLESS the additional weapon is the same as the first. so a model with 2 power fists still only double there base strength but will get +1 attack whic normally they would not get.same with the lightening claws and thunderhammers.

in responce to nabterayl

if you have 2 mc bolt pistols you only get 1 reroll because the rules state you may only fire one weapon unless otherwise stated in the charicters rules, if a charicter states you may fire both weapons then you gain a reroll with Both weapons.

in responce to marshal adamar

if a model has a lightening claw and power fist, the model gets to choose which to use but must use the special rules to that weapon only and does NOT get a +1A for a second close combat weapon.

[MarshalAdamar]

Correct the only advantage to having a lighting claw and a power fist is that you can choose which one to use. You DO NOT get an extra attack because you only have one of each weapon BUT you do get to choose which one you want to use for the round, do you want to go at your regular initiative and reroll failed wounds OR strike last with STR 8.

[Tyrsday]

Alright, cool. Thanks!

[Ranagar]

If you want Str 6 attacks in CC that bad, mount your wolf lord with his frost blade on a thunder wolf (also adds +1 to Str).