Codex Chaos - Master of Deception

[Kevlarshark]

So here is the scenario - I roll Master of deception for my War Lord Trait (which allows D3 infantry units to infiltrate).

I roll a 1 so I opt to use my infiltrate to outflank a unit of CSM inside their dedicated transport Rhino.

My opponent disagrees saying this is not possible as the unit of Chaos marines and their transport count as 2 units and I can only bestow the MOD trait on one unit.
He Quoted me page 121 of the rulebook under Deploying Multiple Unit Choices "Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as separate units in all respects".

The rule for infiltrate and outflank seem to imply that the two units (transport and squad) count as one during deployment but does not state that they do.
They definitely state they both benefit from the outflank and infiltrate providing the squad is embarked on the transport.


We did not reach a solution to the problem, has any one got the answer?

[ElectricPaladin]

Unit and dedicated transport count as one unit at deployment. They also Scout move together, Infiltrate together, Outflank together, Deep Strike together... you name it.

[Nabterayl]

My opponent disagrees saying this is not possible as the unit of Chaos marines and their transport count as 2 units and I can only bestow the MOD trait on one unit.
He Quoted me page 121 of the rulebook under Deploying Multiple Unit Choices "Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as separate units in all respects".
Did he quote page 38, which states, "If a unit with Infiltrate is deployed inside a Dedicated Transport, they may Infiltrate or Outflank along with their Transport, but if they do, they must deploy/move onto the table embarked within it?"

'Cause that's the cite he should have cited :P

Note also that Master of Deception does not allow D3 infantry units to infiltrate. It gives D3 infantry units the Infiltrate special rule.

[Kevlarshark]

Cheers for the clarification guys!

Thats what I thought from my reading of the Infiltrate/Outflank rules.

So let me confirm- If a unit with a dedicated transport (Like Marines with their squad Rhino) has (or somehow gains) the infiltrate special rule they can infiltrate or outflank with their transport (following the normal rules for those special deployments) and count as one unit (for deployment) providing they are inside the transport. Correct?

Does the unit inside the transport still count as infantry if they are riding in the Rhino? If so, then no problem. If they now count as something else (a vehicle?) are they still eligible to have MOD applied to them?

[ElectricPaladin]

Does the unit inside the transport still count as infantry if they are riding in the Rhino? If so, then no problem. If they now count as something else (a vehicle?) are they still eligible to have MOD applied to them?

A vehicle rolling around counts as a vehicle. However, a vehicle gains Infiltrate, Outflank, or Scouts if it is the dedicated transport of infantry who have that rule, and are inside it. The unit inside still counts as infantry. An infantry unit in a vehicle.

[Kevlarshark]

A vehicle rolling around counts as a vehicle. However, a vehicle gains Infiltrate, Outflank, or Scouts if it is the dedicated transport of infantry who have that rule, and are inside it. The unit inside still counts as infantry. An infantry unit in a vehicle.

I figured they would still count as an embarked infantry unit.

Cheers Again.

[Nabterayl]

EP is spot on. To be extra clear about it, note that Master of Deception specifically states that the unit gains Infiltrate before deployment; i.e., before you could even put them into their Rhino.

[Lord Krungharr]

Remember however if you wish to join an IC to the unit which is Infiltrating, you would need a 2 on the D3 roll for the Master of Deception to confer the Infiltrate rule to the IC. Then during deployment, the IC can join that other unit in their dedicated transport for Outflanking.

I tried this with Typhus and zombies last Satyrday and I only got 1 unit to Infiltrate, so the zombies had to hold that objective by themselves (and all died to Death Company). Huron's pretty good overall, I have yet to try out Ahriman though.