Heldrake Fire Ark - New FAQ

[DrLove42]

In the new GW FAQ it says


Q: How do I determine the Arc of Sight for a Heldrake’s ranged weapon? (p52)
A: Treat the Heldrake’s ranged weapon as a Turret MountedWeapon, measuring all ranges from the edge of the Heldrake’s base nearest to the target unit.

So does this mean it could shoot its guns backwards? As turret has a full 360 degree ark?

Think about it. 360 degree ark, 12" torrent PLUS flamer template gives this thing a huge potential area of effect

It also means you can vector strike AND shoot the same unit

[Caitsidhe]

In the new GW FAQ it says



So does this mean it could shoot its guns backwards? As turret has a full 360 degree ark?

Think about it. 360 degree ark, 12" torrent PLUS flamer template gives this thing a huge potential area of effect

It also means you can vector strike AND shoot the same unit

Works for me. I have been converting a cool fantasy dragon model to look like it has been cyborg'd up. The ability to crane its neck around fits the fluff of what I'm making. All that said and done, I still don't use the Drake that often.

[Angelofblades]

It also means you can vector strike AND shoot the same unit

So correct me if I am wrong here, but IIRC the vector strike rules indicate that a unit that performs a VS then counts as firing a weapon...does this mean you cannot fire and VS in the same turn? Or was that only a limitation vs FMC's (flying monstrous creatures)

Or do we take into account that a vehicle (flyer) can fire 4 weapons a turn, however, the Heldrake only has a single weapon - so moot point?

So a follow up question, if VS counts as firing a weapon and a Heldrake suffers a weapon destroyed result, can you no longer VS?

[Denzark]

So correct me if I am wrong here, but IIRC the vector strike rules indicate that a unit that performs a VS then counts as firing a weapon...does this mean you cannot fire and VS in the same turn? Or was that only a limitation vs FMC's (flying monstrous creatures)

Or do we take into account that a vehicle (flyer) can fire 4 weapons a turn, however, the Heldrake only has a single weapon - so moot point?

So a follow up question, if VS counts as firing a weapon and a Heldrake suffers a weapon destroyed result, can you no longer VS?

this methinks

[Nabterayl]

So a follow up question, if VS counts as firing a weapon and a Heldrake suffers a weapon destroyed result, can you no longer VS?
No. The fact that something can cause damage, or even counts as firing a weapon, does not make it a weapon. Though you could be left in the amusing situation of a Heldrake with no weapons that vector strikes and is thus counted as firing a weapon.

[Daemonette666]

No. The fact that something can cause damage, or even counts as firing a weapon, does not make it a weapon. Though you could be left in the amusing situation of a Heldrake with no weapons that vector strikes and is thus counted as firing a weapon.

Interesting, because some rules lawyers could use the wording " counts as firing a weapon" for VS to mean that you can only fire the HellDrake's remaining weapon at the unit you have just VS. If you used the rule that the VS is not a shooting weapon, but a close combat strike that auto hits and uses up one of the fliers maximum of 4 shooting attacks. And these are made as the Flier passed over a unit (similar- but not exactly the same as - the Necron lord catacomb barge's sweep attack), then you could shoot at another unit to the one you VS.

[Nabterayl]

Interesting, because some rules lawyers could use the wording " counts as firing a weapon" for VS to mean that you can only fire the HellDrake's remaining weapon at the unit you have just VS. If you used the rule that the VS is not a shooting weapon, but a close combat strike that auto hits and uses up one of the fliers maximum of 4 shooting attacks. And these are made as the Flier passed over a unit (similar- but not exactly the same as - the Necron lord catacomb barge's sweep attack), then you could shoot at another unit to the one you VS.
Any rules lawyer who read, "A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase. However, an) additional weapons it fires that turn can choose a different target to that of the Vector Strike" and argued that the Heldrake could only fire its remaining weapon at the unit just Vector Struck should turn in his rules bar card ;)

[Daemonette666]

Any rules lawyer who read, "A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase. However, an) additional weapons it fires that turn can choose a different target to that of the Vector Strike" and argued that the Heldrake could only fire its remaining weapon at the unit just Vector Struck should turn in his rules bar card ;)

How did you come to the conclusion that what I said was what you just quoted after snipping parts and then re- arranging the rest to mean something else?

I made it quite clear. You could either count the VS as a special auto hitting shooting attack ( ** ) carried out in the movement phase that ignores cover, or count it as a special auto hitting close combat attack that reduces the number of shooting attacks you can have in the following shooting phase.

I have checked the rules and FAQ. There is nothing there to show whether the VS attack is classified as shooting attack or a close combat attack that just reduces the number of shooting weapons available in the shooting phase by 1.

I did not say that the rules lawyers would interpret the rule to be that VS reduces the number of shooting attacks you can make in the shooting phase, but those shots can be at a different target to the VS attack, and then they turn around and argue that it must be at the same target as the VS.

** see above - I know the VS as an auto hitting shooting attack would break the normal rules for Snap Shots at fliers. Personally I think it would be counted as a special close combat attack designed to allow the model to attack other fliers.