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Sitnam
10-22-2009, 07:26 AM
So after reading the Blog article about Legion of the Damned and how to fit such cool models into a competitive list, it got me thinking, what other cool units are there that just dont play well?

For examplei im a fluff gamer. i got into this hobby because I love the storyline of the game. I love the fluff of the game, and some unit entries to me seem too good to pass up (In the fun sense, not fluff since). For instance, I prefer foot slogging sluggas over shootas in my Ork army. They just seem more orky to me, the fact they have to get in your face or they die.. I also really enjoy Meganobz, both the models and their background. I also like Killa Kanz, hence why I run anywhere between six and nine of them. Although I don't have any models for them yet, I also like the randomness of Flash Gitz. Not all of these units may be competitive, but their character is what gets me.

crazyredpraetorian
10-22-2009, 08:37 AM
Ogryn are alot of fun. Even if, they are a points sink. I run them quite a bit.

N0rdicNinja
10-22-2009, 08:40 AM
Pariahs!!! I want to like Paraiahs so much, which is why I always try to find ways to make them useful... even if it's tactically better to us an entirely different strategy all together. XD

MarshalAdamar
10-22-2009, 08:53 AM
Killa Kans with Grotzookas! They are so, so, so easy to kill with the AV11 and squadron rules, but they're just too cool to pass up. (Though I have knocked out a dreadnaught with some lucky, on target grotzooka shots)

Looted wagons fall in that category too. With AV 11, they spend all game, shaken, immobilized, weapon destroyed or wrecked. BUT the modeling opportunities are just too much to pass up so I use them sometimes, and SOMETIMES you can get a lucky boom gun hit.

Wraiths for the Necrons, such a cool model but only three models in a unit. They usually just die but every now and then I get to assault a unit of Tau fire warriors and I can't top grinning.

For the Tau probably the Skyray. Looks cool, good states but really just a big flying marker light. Not as cool as a hammer head so mine stays in the case most of the time.

Sitnam
10-22-2009, 09:18 AM
Killa Kans with Grotzookas! They are so, so, so easy to kill with the AV11 and squadron rules, but they're just too cool to pass up. (Though I have knocked out a dreadnaught with some lucky, on target grotzooka shots) Yeah Squadron rules aren't that fun. But nothing like a wall of walkers advancing towards you. Thats enough that something should get through ;). I prefer rokkits though. With good BS (for Orks) and the ability to instakill a t4 character with power armor and light vehicles, it seems worthwhile.


Pariahs!!! I want to like Paraiahs so much, which is why I always try to find ways to make them useful... even if it's tactically better to us an entirely different strategy all together. XD I dont play crons, but if I did I would use pariahs. coolest model in that army IMO. I had an idea awhile back about maybe making them into squad leaders, kinda of like Space Wolf Wolf Guards.

Lord Azaghul
10-22-2009, 09:21 AM
Probably heavy bolters...but I rarely take them
The one I do take I think is a competative must that most people seem to think sucks: Mortars. I love 'em. In fact barrage in general is just fun.

fuzzbuket
10-22-2009, 09:53 AM
Hawks

poor poor swooping hawks

not even gun options (its 2in1)

p.s. could i use wingless hawks as rangers (milliput some cloaks!)

Fuzzbuket

Chumbalaya
10-22-2009, 10:02 AM
Dark Angels...

Shokk Attack Gunz, Meganobs, and Burnas.

Katie Drake
10-22-2009, 10:37 AM
My lone Soul Grinder (they're good, but only in pairs).

My two Whirlwinds in my Flesh Tearer army.

N0rdicNinja
10-22-2009, 10:53 AM
I dont play crons, but if I did I would use pariahs. coolest model in that army IMO. I had an idea awhile back about maybe making them into squad leaders, kinda of like Space Wolf Wolf Guards.

That would certainly help make them more useful! Soulless squad leaders? Yes please! If nothing changed but that they would be immensely more useful! XD

Lerra
10-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Screamers of Tzeentch - although you can use the models to pull chariots and still put em on the gaming table without needing to use the cruddy rules ;)

Tyranid gargoyles, about half of the SoB army, both C'tan models, Tau sniper teams.

On the other side of things, models with great rules but meh models: pink horrors, plaguebearers, Tau suits (compare to the new XV9s!), Terminators (compare to the new Space Hulk sculpts)

DarkLink
10-22-2009, 11:09 AM
Grey Knights; they're Space Marines with Jedi powers :D

Too bad they're overpriced, and have such a dirth of options that the only really viable lists involve LR spam.

trjames
10-22-2009, 11:46 AM
Grey Knights; they're Space Marines with Jedi powers :D=

Grey Knights are part of the reason why I'm getting back into 40K after an @12 year absence. My friend Don always had these three fantastically awesome Grey Knight Terminator models that he never used. Always talked about building an Inquisition Army, he'd say "but it would only have about 15 models."

Then one day, I was driving around exploring an area I'd never been in, saw a GW store and decided to walk in. I walked out with the codex an a few models. Now it looks like the 1500 point Inquisition army I'm working on will have 28 minis in 6 tanks :)

DarkLink
10-22-2009, 11:59 AM
Grey Knights are part of the reason why I'm getting back into 40K after an @12 year absence. My friend Don always had these three fantastically awesome Grey Knight Terminator models that he never used. Always talked about building an Inquisition Army, he'd say "but it would only have about 15 models."

Then one day, I was driving around exploring an area I'd never been in, saw a GW store and decided to walk in. I walked out with the codex an a few models. Now it looks like the 1500 point Inquisition army I'm working on will have 28 minis in 6 tanks :)

Cool, that's pretty much how I started Grey Knights. I'd played Khorne Berzerkers and Tau before, then got some Knights because of the models, and found that I loved the way Grey Knights play. I haven't played my chaos or tau since 5th came out.

I'd go and check out Bolter and Chainsword, as they have an Inquisition section that has a lot of good tactical advice. Also make sure to check out the Way of the Water Warrior (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=101214) tactica there. Best tactica I've ever read. It is a little dated, but you should find it very helpful.

RocketRollRebel
10-22-2009, 12:41 PM
Commissars for my IG. I have about 5 or 6 of them just because I love the minis. My favorite being the female commissar (aka Illsa Queen of the SS) she makes it into a bunch of my lists. Such a babe :p. I'm one of those people who gets stuck on a list or a build for a long time and has a very hard time changing it. IE: I'm having a very hard time running my BA with out Dantes tooled out VAS.

MarshalAdamar
10-22-2009, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=Sitnam;28629]Yeah Squadron rules aren't that fun. But nothing like a wall of walkers advancing towards you. Thats enough that something should get through ;). I prefer rokkits though. With good BS (for Orks) and the ability to instakill a t4 character with power armor and light vehicles, it seems worthwhile.

Yea, the rokits are my second favorite; I'm working on another unit of three Kanz with rokits.

Having some BS 3 rokits that can insta kill or even harm large bugs or wraith lords IS nice!

But there is something about dropping 6, STR6 templates on some poor unit that just makes me giggle like having a trouser full of tickle squigs.

lobster-overlord
10-22-2009, 05:09 PM
Sisters Repentia. Although with the universal run rule, they do get into combat a tad quicker. The only thing I don't like is that I can't pile the whole unit into my Shadowsword like I want to.

John M>

crazyzombie
10-22-2009, 05:44 PM
Vanguard vets! The modles are awsome and a large unit of theis guys are just so awsome.

Sitnam
10-22-2009, 06:02 PM
But there is something about dropping 6, STR6 templates on some poor unit that just makes me giggle like having a trouser full of tickle squigs. Hah, I hear that! I might have to try that out. I got some of the older Kan blisters, that only had a rokkit, burna or a shoota. I had to convert three with rookits made by spare stikkbomb launchas, So those could easily be my grotzooka squadron :D. Would it maybe work to put 1 grotzooka in each squadron, to give them a better chance against a variety of targets?

Garou24
10-22-2009, 06:08 PM
I love to run Pariahs and flayed ones in my necron army. I will squeeze in both units if possible, if not I bring just 1 unit. The models for flayed ones look too cool to not use. With my Chaos I have a collection of 30 possessed. Great models and I find they perform well enough. Their random rules make it fun to adapt to whatever rule I rolled. With Tau I like to run an Ethereal and vespids. Both units can work well if used right. Plus my Ethereal is painted too well to not use. i spent too much time painting him to leave him on the shelf.

Katie Drake
10-22-2009, 07:06 PM
Oh, I forgot about my Blood Angel Razorback. Overpriced, just like everything else in the book. :o

Lerra
10-22-2009, 07:10 PM
Oh, I forgot about my Blood Angel Razorback. Overpriced, just like everything else in the book. :o

If you're playing in a casual game, you can take the Imperial Armor version of the Razorback, which just happens to be the most modern version at 40 pts base.

Some local tournaments allow Imperial Armor, too.

MunDMC
10-23-2009, 06:47 AM
Death Cult Assassins:

I can't resist the prospect of three frenzied deaf chicks with power swords outflanking. Haven't made their points back once.

Wodawg
10-23-2009, 12:03 PM
Hormagaunts:
I love hormagaunts, I enjoy the image of dozens of scythed dudes running down the field at breakneck speed ready to pounce on the enemy. Thats fun stuff

Ghoulio
10-23-2009, 12:24 PM
The funny thing about hormagaunts is if you take regular, non upgraded ones they almost never make their points back (unless you are attacking guardsmen or eldar guardians). When you upgrade them (+1Ws/S/I) they are actually really really good. I almost always make my points back. I also love the way these guys look, so its win win. I just cant wait to them in the new codex, hopefully they will get a huge points decrease :)

The two models I was thinking about though were Raveners and Lictors. I freaking love the models for both of these, especially the Lictors. I just cant see how they would be good in a game. I mean, for the price of 4 raveners w/ Scything talons and Rending Claws you can get 8 outflanking genestealers with feeder tendrils. Also, paying 80pts for a model with T4 5+ armor save and only 2 wounds is pretty painful :)

MarshalAdamar
10-23-2009, 04:34 PM
Hah, I hear that! I might have to try that out. I got some of the older Kan blisters, that only had a rokkit, burna or a shoota. I had to convert three with rokits made by spare stikkbomb launchas, so those could easily be my grotzooka squadron :D. Would it maybe work to put 1 grotzooka in each squadron, to give them a better chance against a variety of targets?

I think the key to the grotzooka is numbers, 6 STR6 templates are sick against other Orks, guard, heck everyone but marines and you still wound on 2's with them.

If you add rokits you dilute the effect you only have a couple templates and a couple rokits so you’re not very effective against either infantry or vehicle I say specialize.

I would use either or because some bad scatter rolls can hose you, but with a 33% chance to get an on target, 33% chance to get a small drift (with BS3) and 33% missing completely you can usually get 5 hits for the on target so that’s 10 hits, half that many for the drifts that’s another 5 and lose the other two. So 15 Str 6 hits! Which are 12 or so wounds that are 4 dead space marines. Almost half the squad. Heaven forbid you hit scouts with them!

You can get some AWESOME "scrap guns" from IRONDOG STUDIOS, Google him and check out the work. The scrap guns make great Grotzookas.

They are amazing and reasonably priced. They are listed under "Scrap gun"

darth_papi76
10-23-2009, 05:18 PM
I love using Storm Guardians.

Steelbull
10-23-2009, 05:27 PM
I'm a Kan and Dread fan, and I can't help but keep the Dread with 2X Kustom Mega Blasters because the Zzap guns I used for them just seem cool to me. I've even killed a Marine or two with them over the past 2 years!

Grimwar
10-23-2009, 05:52 PM
I like chaos lords with daemon weapons. I can't accept a dude who can dish out as many attacks as a squad of marines in power weapon blows and WS6 I5 to be inferior to a prince.

Other models I like are defilers. They have no focus and do well in all roles with a bit of blast on the side.

Cant hit whats beyond range so might as well be a leman russ when I make it come off from reserve or dawn of war as far from the enemy as possible.

tallyrand
10-23-2009, 10:56 PM
Whatever I painted last, and anything that I rather liked my paint job on. This is why, no matter how they failed me throughout 3rd edition, my Warp Spiders always made it in.

EmperorEternalXIX
10-24-2009, 07:43 AM
For me, this is the Space Marines in general. Mostly the Librarian though. I want him to be useful but the points I pay for him are never justified. I am sure this will be better once I switch over to the Wolves, however.

For me the depressing thing is there was a time when I would have sworn by the basic bog standard Tactical Marine, and nowadays I really do my best to minimize them since they are so easily killed off by most armies.

Sitnam
10-25-2009, 01:12 PM
I think the key to the grotzooka is numbers, 6 STR6 templates are sick against other Orks, guard, heck everyone but marines and you still wound on 2's with them.

If you add rokits you dilute the effect you only have a couple templates and a couple rokits so you’re not very effective against either infantry or vehicle I say specialize.

I would use either or because some bad scatter rolls can hose you, but with a 33% chance to get an on target, 33% chance to get a small drift (with BS3) and 33% missing completely you can usually get 5 hits for the on target so that’s 10 hits, half that many for the drifts that’s another 5 and lose the other two. So 15 Str 6 hits! Which are 12 or so wounds that are 4 dead space marines. Almost half the squad. Heaven forbid you hit scouts with them!


hmm, I see your point. I usually keep all units specialized, for the reason it does maximize efficiency. I have to say though, I quite despise the Ork codex. Not that its a bad codex, but it has so many other fun looking Heavy Support options! Got gun crews and Flash Gitz, while somewhat fragile, have always looked fun to me. I mean bs3 artillery for Orks in precision firepower! lol.

murrburger
10-25-2009, 06:14 PM
Ezekiel. He's not very good, but his fluff makes him out to be a total bad-***. Same reason why I like Lysander. (Although he is good.)

Squirrel_Fish
10-25-2009, 11:06 PM
You see, I have an obsession with Dreadnoughts but have never really had much luck with them on the tabletop. They always get either blasted to smithereens or get bogged down by a too much infantry.

RocketRollRebel
10-26-2009, 02:53 AM
Generic Blood Angels Librarian. He's painted nicely but never seen the table top so I took him out for a spin the other day, ate fire warriors for breakfast! Not like thats really much of an accomplishment tho really... haha

MarshalAdamar
10-26-2009, 08:30 AM
hmm, I see your point. I usually keep all units specialized, for the reason it does maximize efficiency. I have to say though, I quite despise the Ork codex. Not that its a bad codex, but it has so many other fun looking Heavy Support options! Got gun crews and Flash Gitz, while somewhat fragile, have always looked fun to me. I mean bs3 artillery for Orks in precision firepower! lol.

I know what you mean about the heavy support! I LOVE Dreads and Kan but I also like flash gitz but they're too fragile, too expensive and too few of them but man I would love to use them just for fun.

The Looted wagon can be cool but with AV11. I mean come on! That thing never gets to shoot!

And I have had my butt handed to me by zap guns because they are AP2! Hello battle suit killing machine. I have one whole unit of Zap guns made from looted Laz cannons that I'm just trying to find a reason to field.

There are just too many cool things in the heavy support to choose from.

What I do now is take some Nobs (because really why wouldn’t you) and that gives me a battle wagon and I take a Big mek that gives me a Deff Dread as a troops choice, then I can take Kans, another Dread and one other Heavy support.

I’ve finished a unit of 6 mega Nobs that I’m trying out with Doc Grotsnik to make them fearless AND give them a 5+ Invul save so they’re more like terminators. Put them in a truck and Zoom! Hope they get blown up after their 18” move so they can rocket forward another 12” in the explosion and be ring in the middle of things.

eagleboy7259
10-26-2009, 02:28 PM
-Black Templars Chaplians... Rites of Battle is kinda pointless when you already have ACC.

-Assault Squads: one PF or PW and some plasma pistols just aren't cutting it when everybody can run and you cost so dang much

Melissia
10-26-2009, 04:25 PM
Penitent Engines. I am ALWAYS wanting to take a squadron of 2-3 of these, even though they are too expensive for how easy they are to take down. I don't often do it, but when I do... they usually surprise my opponents, and at the very least draw attention away from my Exorcists and Sisters so that they get into position to do some real damage. Something about p.engines really draws the opponent's attention.

Repentia are just too uncompetitive to bother with, even if they are beautiful models and a neat concept.

MarshalAdamar
10-26-2009, 04:57 PM
[QUOTE=eagleboy7259;29534]-Black Templars Chaplians... Rites of Battle is kinda pointless when you already have ACC.

I would have to disagree, they are not as good as they were at one time BUT!

Leadership 8 is terrible and all your crusaders are prone to run at the slightest provocation. And the chaplain allows you to zeal towards ANY enemy unit that can save your butt.

So I think there is room for the chap, plus the rerolls for the neophytes is good.

Allandaros
10-31-2009, 12:05 PM
I've got a bunch of old IG jetbikes and motorbikes (plus 2 converted Space Marine bikes) which I field as IG rough riders. I understand that Rough Riders can be a decent CC unit if used properly. I don't know how to do that yet, and so they don't come out too well, unfortunately.

But it just feels so awesome fielding a biker gang unit as part of the Guard. :D

SandWyrm
10-31-2009, 09:41 PM
I've got a bunch of old IG jetbikes and motorbikes (plus 2 converted Space Marine bikes) which I field as IG rough riders. I understand that Rough Riders can be a decent CC unit if used properly. I don't know how to do that yet, and so they don't come out too well, unfortunately.

But it just feels so awesome fielding a biker gang unit as part of the Guard. :D

They're effective as a counter-charge unit in games of 1500 pts. or less. IF you're running a gun line infantry force. To use them properly, put them in reserve at the start of the game. When they come on (hopefully on turns 3 or 4), you can hit anything within 19-24" of your long table edge. They're great for smacking Terminators or Nobs that have to close with your gunline in order to be effective.

If you're running mech, forget it.

sirrouga
11-01-2009, 07:04 AM
Necron Wraiths get spots in my army quite a bit, not the worst unit int he Necron army but still not great. Not having a power weapon or some way to get through armor gets them tied up way too easy, especially for costing about the cost as a termie points wise >.<

I so wished they had at least rending....

SlavesToDarkness
11-13-2009, 01:51 PM
My poor, poor Malcador (not a Defender, not an Annihilator - just the regular, old battlecannon one). I love the model - but at 300 points she only kills as much as a leman russ (has the exact same armaments - lascannon, battlecannon, 2 x heavy bolter). I rarely take her, but I love her so much.

SandWyrm
11-13-2009, 09:11 PM
My poor, poor Malcador (not a Defender, not an Annihilator - just the regular, old battlecannon one). I love the model - but at 300 points she only kills as much as a leman russ (has the exact same armaments - lascannon, battlecannon, 2 x heavy bolter). I rarely take her, but I love her so much.

If the Armaments are the same, why don't you just use it as a Russ?

SlavesToDarkness
11-14-2009, 12:46 AM
If the Armaments are the same, why don't you just use it as a Russ?

That wouldn't be an uncompetitive unit I couldn't resist then would it?

Just_Me
11-14-2009, 03:05 AM
Alien Hunters, they don't even exist, yet I twist the other two Ordos Codexes into rules legal, very cool looking, very fluffy, totally ineffective stand-ins! (wooo! Inquisitorial Storm Troops, Death Cultists, Servitors, Servo-Skulls, and Orbital Strikes!).

Plus the Solomon Lok model is among the coolest things ever produced by GW or any of its subsidiaries...

Next maybe I will add some Kroot Mercenaries (yeah hes a radical, what of it?), and/or maybe some Deathwatch (now how am I ever going to get that to make sense?).

Ivarr
11-14-2009, 05:31 AM
My poor, poor Malcador (not a Defender, not an Annihilator - just the regular, old battlecannon one). I love the model - but at 300 points she only kills as much as a leman russ (has the exact same armaments - lascannon, battlecannon, 2 x heavy bolter). I rarely take her, but I love her so much.

I'll see your Malcador and raise you one really cool looking, over-priced, under-effective Valdor. I have played it in every Apocalypse game since I got it, but I cannot think of many ways to spend 300 poiints that would be less potent. I named mine the Yamato, after the ship from Star Blazers...so I have to play it...

Just_Me
11-14-2009, 10:01 AM
I named mine the Yamato, after the ship from Star Blazers...so I have to play it...

Actually, if you are familiar with WWII history, the Yamato was a Japanese battleship. She and her sister ship Musashi were the largest conventional warships of all time and carried 9 18” guns in 3 turrets (the largest ever taken to sea), …and were completely ineffective for the entire war, right up until the Yamato was blown to kingdom come when it tried to make a Kamikaze run against the allied fleet at Okinawa. So, “Yamato” is remarkably appropriate for an ineffective tank with a huge gun :D…

SlavesToDarkness
11-14-2009, 03:53 PM
I'll see your Malcador and raise you one really cool looking, over-priced, under-effective Valdor. I have played it in every Apocalypse game since I got it, but I cannot think of many ways to spend 300 poiints that would be less potent. I named mine the Yamato, after the ship from Star Blazers...so I have to play it...

I think they're updating the Valdor's rules though, right? Aren't the ones in Imperial Armor: The Seige of Vraks III different than the old PDF?

Drizzt13
11-15-2009, 12:37 AM
Mine is Deffkoptas they never make their points back and they rarely survive past turn 2-3 but boy does that 24 inch scout move scare the bejuzes out of people, especially gunlines.

Ivarr
11-15-2009, 01:36 PM
I think they're updating the Valdor's rules though, right? Aren't the ones in Imperial Armor: The Seige of Vraks III different than the old PDF?

Not much different. It is a stronger cannon, but not all that much more effective as it's special cannon has no special effect vs other superheavies. It is still under-armored and under-gunned for a superheavy and at more than 300 points.

MarshalAdamar
11-15-2009, 04:46 PM
How about Arco Flagellants? You can have all of 6 of them, they get a 5+ save, they kill themselves and they can't ride in transports!

Has anyone ever gotten these guys into grips with the foes of the emperor?

Mine usually go MOVE, RUN, SPAZ, SOME DIE, GET SHOT AT, SOME M ORE DIE, MOVE, RUN, and GET SHOT AT AND THE REST OF THEM DIE.

Always with in spitting distance of something to kill.

But they have never connected.

USELESS, Grots are more useful than those guys.

SlavesToDarkness
11-17-2009, 05:25 PM
How about Arco Flagellants? You can have all of 6 of them, they get a 5+ save, they kill themselves and they can't ride in transports!

Pretty sure it's a 4+ invulnerable save. How about taking them with Creed and outflanking...?

Faultie
11-17-2009, 07:07 PM
How about Arco Flagellants? You can have all of 6 of them, they get a 5+ save, they kill themselves and they can't ride in transports!

Has anyone ever gotten these guys into grips with the foes of the emperor?

Mine usually go MOVE, RUN, SPAZ, SOME DIE, GET SHOT AT, SOME M ORE DIE, MOVE, RUN, and GET SHOT AT AND THE REST OF THEM DIE.

Always with in spitting distance of something to kill.

But they have never connected.

USELESS, Grots are more useful than those guys.

You know that you can choose when to activate the Stimms, right? I usually advance them in cover, or with LoS blocked. It's not perfect, but I have definitely gotten the unit into melee, and they are vicious. Not what I'd want against, say, IG, but definitely worthwhile against MEQs, non-SS termies, etc.

MarshalAdamar
11-19-2009, 09:52 AM
I didn't think about out flanking! And you're right it’s a 4+ so cover is no help!

I thought about trying to hide them behind a land raider or something like it so totally block LOS and try them again.

I have like 18 of them! So I REALLY want them to work. Sort of like the sisters repentia! The have a 4+ save and then go dead last! So you loose like half the squad before you can strike. You kill everything you attack but they're only good for one hit really.