Are all Chimeras created equally?

[tallyrand]

I'm getting back into the game after a while away, and as I enjoy the pain, I'm going to be running Witch Hunters without Sisters.

It would seem that the Imperial Guard get a much better Chimera than the Witch Hunters.

It's a many points cheaper, amphibious, has more fire points, and using them doesn't render it open topped.

What kind of crappy Chimeras are they handing out to the Inquisition these days?

And to make matters worse, I could conceivably have both kinds running around in the same army, some as from the Witch Hunter list, and some from Inducted Imperial Guard.

I can understand the points difference, IG buy these things in bulk and all, but can someone tell me that the other differences have been cleared up somewhere by GW?

[Culven]

Sorry, GW has a bad habit now of just telling us to use whatever is in our codecies unless changed in an FAQ. I don't think that the Witch Hunter FAQ has brought their chimeras into alignment with the new IG version.

[DarkLink]

You might be able to use Forgeworld Chimeras (if forgeworld has done a unit entry for WH chimeras), but other than that, you have to houserule the points differences.

[Lord Azaghul]

Or could just not mix armies! I say leave the inquision alone - eventually they'll accuse you of heresy in either case!

[Cryl]

Do it the other way round... run an imperial guard army, vets in chimeras from the guard book as your ISTs then take inquisitors etc from the witch hunters book. Solves the chimera / decent troops problem and still has the feel you're looking for. You would need an HQ from guard but a commisar lord or primaris psyker could "count as" an inquisitor or something similar fairly easily.

[eldargal]

All chimeras are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[gwensdad]

There is an Imperial Armour entry for Chimeras and that entry gets "updated" in the IA update on the forgeworld website. Pointswise it's about the same and actually has more weapons options than the guard.

[Warmaster Primus]

Only a small point, but shooting out of a Rhino does not make it open-topped because the inhabitants are wearing power armour

[SeattleDV8]

One small, very small, bright point, the second printing did remove the Open-topped rule from WH transports.

[Aegis]

There is an Imperial Armour entry for Chimeras and that entry gets "updated" in the IA update on the forgeworld website. Pointswise it's about the same and actually has more weapons options than the guard.

Imperial Armour 2, and updates,is the one you are thinking of.

As has been suggested, though, WH without sisters is just a bad guard list. Make guard your primary force, and include elements of the WH codex into it. You will be much happier with the outcome.

[Aeirling of Steirm Canoir]

if your fielding witch hunters without sisters, you might as well just use the guard codex. Better storm troopers, better chimeras, better tanks, and valkaries, are all advantages the guard codex has in comparison to the witch hunters codex.

[BuFFo]

I'm getting back into the game after a while away, and as I enjoy the pain, I'm going to be running Witch Hunters without Sisters.

It would seem that the Imperial Guard get a much better Chimera than the Witch Hunters.

It's a many points cheaper, amphibious, has more fire points, and using them doesn't render it open topped.

What kind of crappy Chimeras are they handing out to the Inquisition these days?

And to make matters worse, I could conceivably have both kinds running around in the same army, some as from the Witch Hunter list, and some from Inducted Imperial Guard.

I can understand the points difference, IG buy these things in bulk and all, but can someone tell me that the other differences have been cleared up somewhere by GW?

All Imperial Vehicles have been updated last year under the Imperial Armor 2 update.

All Imperial Chimeras are basically the exact same in every way. Go to Forgeworld's Website, and download the update. Its free. And its essential to use for updated rules.

[Melissia]

Imperial Armour 2, and updates,is the one you are thinking of.

As has been suggested, though, WH without sisters is just a bad guard list. Make guard your primary force, and include elements of the WH codex into it. You will be much happier with the outcome.

Yes. Veteran guardsmen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inquisitorial stormtroopers.

Seriously. Just include an inquisitor lord with retinue and an assassin, and then pick a primaris psyker (call him one of the Inquisitor's more powerful servants) as the HQ. Voila.

[Lerra]

If you want to run inquisition for the fluff, you can always use the counts-as rules with the Imperial Guard codex. That way the army looks and acts like inquisition, but you can use the newer, better rules.

[tallyrand]

All Imperial Vehicles have been updated last year under the Imperial Armor 2 update.

All Imperial Chimeras are basically the exact same in every way. Go to Forgeworld's Website, and download the update. Its free. And its essential to use for updated rules.


I checked the update, and while it was helpful, it did not cover the issue of firepoints or open hatch = open topped.

Also, by GW standards, how "Officially Official" are the Imperial Armour books?

[Aegis]

I checked the update, and while it was helpful, it did not cover the issue of firepoints or open hatch = open topped.

Also, by GW standards, how "Officially Official" are the Imperial Armour books?

The updates only list the fundamental changes. To get the firepoints/access hatch information, check out the base book.

Also, I think it is standard that firing from the top hatch will make it open topped, unless the unit has an average armour save of 3+.

[tallyrand]

The updates only list the fundamental changes. To get the firepoints/access hatch information, check out the base book.

Also, I think it is standard that firing from the top hatch will make it open topped, unless the unit has an average armour save of 3+.

And again, it's back to the major part of my original problem, the firepoint discrepancy of Inquisitorial Chimeras (2) vs. IG Chimeras (5), additionally the I can't find reference to opening the top hatch making the vehicle open topped in any post 5th edition source.

And' yes I realize that I could just run IG with some Witch Hunters, but that rather dramatically cuts my availability of their signature units, i.e. 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 2 Troops. This means no Penitent Engines, ever, and choices between Acro Flagellants, and assorted Assassins.

[Pi666]

The case with chimeras is the same that with all the marines outdated codices (or codexes?). BA's (for example) have more expensive rhinos, less capacity Land Raiders and more expensive tanks in general, same for DA and BT. Yes, you can use the Imperial armour update and use this rules, but they're not allowed in tournaments (at least in all I went).

[Aegis]

And again, it's back to the major part of my original problem, the firepoint discrepancy of Inquisitorial Chimeras (2) vs. IG Chimeras (5), additionally the I can't find reference to opening the top hatch making the vehicle open topped in any post 5th edition source.

And' yes I realize that I could just run IG with some Witch Hunters, but that rather dramatically cuts my availability of their signature units, i.e. 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 2 Troops. This means no Penitent Engines, ever, and choices between Acro Flagellants, and assorted Assassins.

Actually, reviewing the updates, I do stand corrected... They do list updated firepoints. In fact, to further add to my correction, it has all the necessary rule inclusions, minus descriptions of amphibious and mobile command vehicle. I was thinking of the IA2 Valkyrie, which lacks a lot of rules clarification.

As far as the unique WH units, I agree, I love the fluff of things like Penitent Engines, and Archflagellants, but they are bad units, to be honest. I have tried in numerous games to make them work, and they so rarely do. However, with my correction, it sounds like you will not be lacking the armour capabilities we originally thought you may, so it will allow you to play around with them yourself.

Just a side note, make sure your IA2 update is the one from August 28, 2009.

[BuFFo]

Yes, you can use the Imperial armour update and use this rules, but they're not allowed in tournaments (at least in all I went).

1) Not all tourneys are the same.

2) Tourney going players amount to less than 1% of all 40k Hobbyists, so I don't think this is an issue anyway.

Currently, there is no rule for a standard transport vehicle having an opened hatch counting as open topped for the IG or Space Marines.

[Pi666]

Currently, there is no rule for a standard transport vehicle having an opened hatch counting as open topped for the IG or Space Marines.

There's this rule somwhere in the rulebook (sorry, i'm at work and i'm not carrying it) that states if you use the firing points of the vehicle, if the units armour is worse than 3+ it's considered open topped. As an example, check that the normal land speeder isn't open topped, but Land Speeder Storm is.

[Melissia]

There's this rule somwhere in the rulebook (sorry, i'm at work and i'm not carrying it) that states if you use the firing points of the vehicle, if the units armour is worse than 3+ it's considered open topped. As an example, check that the normal land speeder isn't open topped, but Land Speeder Storm is.
There is no mention of this in the BRB.

[Nabterayl]

There's this rule somwhere in the rulebook (sorry, i'm at work and i'm not carrying it) that states if you use the firing points of the vehicle, if the units armour is worse than 3+ it's considered open topped. As an example, check that the normal land speeder isn't open topped, but Land Speeder Storm is.

You're thinking of a 4th edition rule, my friend. This was dropped in 5th.

[Aegis]

You're thinking of a 4th edition rule, my friend. This was dropped in 5th.

Which explain my reasoning as well. Lousy edition changes...

[Pi666]

You're thinking of a 4th edition rule, my friend. This was dropped in 5th.

Yep, I'm wrong.

[SeattleDV8]

Not completely, Daemon Hunters (DH:Codex pg.30) still have the Opened-topped if armour is less than 3+ rule.

[Aegis]

Not completely, Daemon Hunters (DH:Codex pg.30) still have the Opened-topped if armour is less than 3+ rule.

True enough, but if using the IA updates, irrelevant. But again, it becomes a matter of source material. Ironically, the Inquisition, probably the most financially capable and well equipped organization in the Imperium, is forced to use the most expensive and inefficient of transports...