Space Wolves -- Wolf Talisman vs. Runic Weapon

[MightyOrang]

Rune Priest's runic weapon gives him a 4+ chance to dispel psychic powers upon the successful psychic test to execute.

Wolf Talisman gives the unit who has it (or who has a character attached to it with one) a 5+ save against psychic attacks

So ... do they stack? Can I claim both? One against the 'casting' of the power ... and the second against the 'damage' of said power?

My initial thought is no.

[Nabterayl]

My thought is yes, for three reasons.

Reason the first, the codex doesn't say that they don't, and no other rule specifies that you can't. You aren't allowed to take more than one save, but that's not what you're doing - the runic weapon has a chance to nullify the power, and the runic armor is an invulnerable save that only works against psychic powers.

Reason the second, the Sisters of Battle have a slightly stronger version of the power (Shield of Faith nullifies psychic powers; runic armor is an invulnerable save against wounds caused by psychic powers), and their power stacks with a psychic hood. A fortiori, the Space Wolves' weaker version should stack as well.

Reason the third, Grey Knights' Aegis suits don't stack with a psychic hood, but unlike Shield of Faith and runic armor, Aegis suits practically are psychic hoods. Additionally, the Daemonhunters codex specifically says that The Aegis does not stack with psychic hoods, whereas the Witch Hunters codex and Space Wolves codex do not. If runic armor, like Aegis suits, had the same mechanic as a psychic hood, then I would argue that the two do not stack. But runic armor does not have the same mechanic as a psychic hood.

[DarkLink]

Technically, there isn't anything that prevents them from stacking.

This issue was mentioned in the BOLS space wolf FAQ article a while back, along with twenty-some other issues.

[AirHorse]

Im not so sure they stack, wasnt there an faq that said you can only attempt to nullify a psyhic power once? Im sure it was to do with having more than one pshyic hood in an army. Cant remember where i saw that though :S

[Xas]

it stacks.

one is a "dispell" roll, the other a perfectly plain invulnerable save.

not like you wouldnt be allowed to take cover saves against a warp blast only because you tried to dispell it :)

[Nabterayl]

Im not so sure they stack, wasnt there an faq that said you can only attempt to nullify a psyhic power once? Im sure it was to do with having more than one pshyic hood in an army. Cant remember where i saw that though :S
This isn't nullifying a psychic power, though. It's an invulnerable save that only works against psychic powers.

Think of it this way - if I shoot a terminator librarian with Bolt of Change, the librarian can attempt to stop me from using the power with his psychic hood, but if the psychic hood fails, and I hit, and I wound him, he can still take his invulnerable save against the wound. The invulnerable save isn't "nullifying" the power. It's just a save. Runic armor is no different.

[AirHorse]

em, go read the entry again "on the roll of a 5+ that power is nullified" :P, but i also cant find where i read this, so perhaps it wasnt a gw faq

edit: I mean I cant find where I read about not being able to nullify more than once, the talisman is in the wolves codex :P

[Nabterayl]

em, go read the entry again "on the roll of a 5+ that power is nullified" :P, but i also cant find where i read this, so perhaps it wasnt a gw faq

edit: I mean I cant find where I read about not being able to nullify more than once, the talisman is in the wolves codex :P
Wow ... okay, so apparently I have been full of fail this thread. Runic weapons are not psychic hoods, and I have no idea how I switched from wolf tail talisman to runic armor =P

Still, nothing says the two items don't stack - and unless I'm missing something again, there's no point in putting a wolf tail talisman in the rune priest's entry if they don't stack.

[AirHorse]

thats a good point, although perhaps its a case of it was meant to be a save but they failed at writting the rules :P

its not entirely clear to me tbh, seems a bit hax to have so many ways to nullify a psychic power at once to me, but then psychic powers arent overly dominant or anything so i guess if you spend your points on this shizzle the oponent gets a bonus when he doesnt use them offensively.

[DarkLink]

Im not so sure they stack, wasnt there an faq that said you can only attempt to nullify a psyhic power once? Im sure it was to do with having more than one pshyic hood in an army. Cant remember where i saw that though :S

That was a BOLS houserules article, so that isn't offical.

[Ranagar]

I think this is getting a little confused, so lets see if this helps.

1. Runic armor: "Furthermore, the wearer of runic armor has a 5+ Invulnerable save vs. all wounds caused by a psychic attacks." (from pg.61 SW Codex).

2. "A Runic Weapon is a force weapon. Furthermore, whenever a enemy model succeeds on a Psychic test with in 24" of the bearer, roll a dice, on a 4+ the power in nullified. "
(works like a psihood, but is not a psihood). (pg 36 SW Codex)

3. Wolf Tail Talisman: "If a model with a wolf tail talisman or the unit he is with is affected by an enemy psychic power, roll a d6, on a 5+ the power is nullified." (also works like a psihood, but is not a psihood). (pg 62 SW Codex)

so yes each would stack.

If you wanted to push the issue, you could TRY to claim that the runic weapon is not a psihood and could be used in conjunction with a psyker from another chapter with a psihood, to try and get 2 nullifies against the enemy power. But I think that its going to far.

I prefer just getting the up to 3 chances at it. 1 from my Psiker's force weapon, (Njal at a 3+ to nullify, if within 24"), A wolf tail talisman in EVERY squad, (5+ to nullify), and then a 5+ inv save if the power hit Njal's squad or my other psiker's squad, only saves the psiker, bur I'll take it.

[wolflold]

And even if they wouldn't stack its still worth taking the talisman. PsiHood only works once per turn right? and talisman everytime you'll be attacked by an psi-attack. So even if you used/failed/whatever your PsiHood you still have the talisman.

[Cryl]

you can use a psychic hood to nullify a power used within 24" any time it's used as far as I know, I don't believe there's a once per turn rule for it. Same applies to the runic weapon.