Has GW lost it's 'best players'?

[Levitas]

Who are the guys designing, writing and sculpting for GW these days? I have to say, I do wonder as I look to the talented people that have moved on to do their own thing. Have they lost the dream team that made 40k the power house that it is?

GW still undoubtably stays true to its roots as a model making company. They also still have Jes Goodwin. But then they also still have Matt Ward, who seems to divide opinions.

Looking at Apple I wonder how they will fare long term without the genius of Steve Jobs. While i'm also curious how Rick Priestly will do with his ambitious kickstater. Often success is the combination of the right people, timing and money.

Does GW still have the industries best talent? Or has it gone elsewhere? Is this reflected in its products? Do you think GW and 40k are stronger than ever?

[Mr Mystery]

Models best ever, BL going strong (though I miss the old 'side novels' exploring their worlds outside established continuity) game editions being the most fun in ages?

Not seeing any bad here.

As for Ward..... Just like loving Squats, even though they went out over a decade before most joined in (seriously. At least 16 years!) hating Ward is just a fashion, a fad if you will to stay hip and rap with the cool kids. Blood Angels and Necrons uniting against the mutual threat of Tyranids? Makes sense to tackle the biggest pending threat. Necrons are nothing if not historically pragmatic. Walking away at the end? Blood Angels are nothing if not noble. Issue is therefore one of personal taste, and following a fashion for many.

[imperialpower]

I am sure GW can afford to buy in as much talent as they need.

[ElectricPaladin]

Blood Angels and Necrons uniting against the mutual threat of Tyranids? Makes sense to tackle the biggest pending threat. Necrons are nothing if not historically pragmatic. Walking away at the end? Blood Angels are nothing if not noble. Issue is therefore one of personal taste, and following a fashion for many.

I have a big problem with a lot of the mechanics written into the Grey Knights and Necrons codices, but I have always agreed with you about this bit of fluff. Makes sense to me.

[Witch_Hunter]

Models best ever

I don't know, some of the designers aren't quite right in the head whoever they are these days; whoever is responsible for the dreadknight, that new DAngel landspeeder mess, the space marine flyers in general...
I think the best models came around the 2000s or a bit later, and the quality's been fairly consistent since then for the most part. All the recent plastic kits are nice though.

[Mr Mystery]

At the risk of splitting hairs, whilst aesthetics of course remain entirely subjective, I don't think anyone can dispute the kit quality GW are putting out these days is anything short of superb.

Consider the starting games. Fantasy, 40k and Hobbit and the models contained therein. Sculpt quality in terms of detail, ease of putting together, lack of obvious joins once painted?

But whether or not you like any given models aesthetic is down to you of course.

[Levitas]

I agree Mr Mystery, GWs models and kits are some of the best in the industry, but others are catching up quick.

I just think they are lacking a spark in the ranks. Some maniacal genius with crazy revolutionary ideas, and not the guy who put candles on a plane. It's like they are clinging to the same formula, like the imperium itself.

What I would have liked to have seen with 6th is a massive revolutionary shift in the core mechanics, and a drastic push forward with the fluff. I'd also like to see marines re-designed from the ground up, as the core of the design is stuck in the 80s. Again, personal aesthetic opinion, and do understand why people like the iconic look.

[rpricew]

It seems like the Ward hate most often reflects "Broken" or "Overpowered" codices and terrible fluff. The Fluff is one thing, and I personally think that you should stick to what you're good at. If it's writing rules, then do that and have a writer do the backstory. The unspoken problem with the way Ward writes, is the other writers don't. I'm not saying that they should. What I'm saying is that Ward's writing style is highlighted by how different from the other writers it is. If Ward wrote all of the Codices, (god help us all), then it wouldn't stand out so much.

I have only been around for 5th and 6th editions, so that makes me a relative newcomer, but I think the models are fantastic compared to the older ones. The storyline is thin at best. When the BGB came out for 6th, everyone was talking about how much "fluff" was going to be in it, but honestly...even though there are a lot of pages dedicated to it, there really isn't that much story in it. Seems like a missed opportunity there.

I think it really comes down to marketing and selling more than anything. Continuity of story, balance, and anything not related to physical bottom dollar sales is just not as important. GW has the team they need to sell products. Not necessary the team needed to blow us away with their amazing game.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

No.

Next!

[Necron2.0]

With respect to the quality of Citadel's (aka GW's) minis, I have an opposite opinion. I've been avidly collecting miniatures since 1983. Personally I think GW has only just recently caught up with where some in the industry have been for years. Back in the 80's and 90's, Citadel minis were strictly table-top. They didn't hold a candle to Ral Partha, to Grenadier and especially not to Thunderbolt Mountain. Those three were the heavy hitters. Citadel was just an "also ran." The only reason why Citadel has survived (more or less) is because those others weren't specifically tied to a game system, and none of their products were required for game play. Citadel's success has been a triumph of marketing, really.

Of course, things change and as I said, Citadel has been getting progressively better. They're still not the tip top, but they're definitely collectable now.

[eldargal]

Citadel became No.1 when they were the first tabletop miniature company to really embrace plastic injection moulding. Not the first to use, but the first to really push it. As for talent, no problem there either. Whether or not you like the aesthetics on a technical level GWs kits are superb.

[nearsighted_farseer]

At the risk of splitting hairs, whilst aesthetics of course remain entirely subjective

If aesthetics are purely subjective, they ain't aesthetics: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6798/6798-h/6798-h.htm.

[eldargal]

Kant > Schiller.

[Mr Mystery]

Then how do you account for fashion subcultures?

[OrksOrksOrks]

With respect to the quality of Citadel's (aka GW's) minis, I have an opposite opinion. I've been avidly collecting miniatures since 1983. Personally I think GW has only just recently caught up with where some in the industry have been for years. Back in the 80's and 90's, Citadel minis were strictly table-top. They didn't hold a candle to Ral Partha, to Grenadier and especially not to Thunderbolt Mountain. Those three were the heavy hitters. Citadel was just an "also ran." The only reason why Citadel has survived (more or less) is because those others weren't specifically tied to a game system, and none of their products were required for game play. Citadel's success has been a triumph of marketing, really.

Of course, things change and as I said, Citadel has been getting progressively better. They're still not the tip top, but they're definitely collectable now.



The thing is, while they've continiued to improve in leaps and bounds over the years, those other companies have stagnated, Ral Partha are just embrarassing now, and other companies are miles behind in quality of plastic kits, resin collectors stuff is different of course, some of those models are stunning

[Psychosplodge]

I certainly feel they've taken a turn on the design front that doesn't appeal to my taste, but luckily you can leave a lot of the clutter off.
But what were they smoking when they designed the dredknight?

[Wolfshade]

Magic sauce :)

I love the dreadknight

[Psychosplodge]

There's probably plenty that do...

[bfmusashi]

I dig the Dreadknight, I just get annoyed when people incorrectly identify the robot influences.

[Psychosplodge]

What are the correct influences?

[bfmusashi]

I don't know as I didn't design it, but I do know it isn't a Transformers/Gundam/Avatar rip off. It has enough in common with existing GW minis (the original war walker in particular) that I found the reaction repellent. I love me some giant robots and my inner nerd needs to correct misconceptions.

[Adra]

I remember when I saw the new plastic dark eldar scourges and i was blown away. They are so detailed and delicate with so much 3d motion in the models, especially the wings. That made me realize that whatever you say about GW they still make stunning plastic models and although there are plenty of other smaller companies out there making amazing kits, GW is the master of plastic.

[Bored Lyron]

When comparing miniatures, GW is definately ahead of the pack in plastic figures and in enabling large armies of figures. The individual figures (characters and such) are fine, but most serious competitors have models that are just as good or even better. It does seem to me that while the quality of plastics GW puts out has gone dramatically up in the recent years, recently the metal/finecast model sculpts have gone down.

Another thing that I have noticed is that the quality of paintjobs in GW publications seems to have gone down, if not in actuality, then at least in relative terms. After having talked with a member of the 'Eavy Metal team, I'm not too surprised. They aren't allowed to paint figures for sale, they can't participate in painting forums, they can't post pictures of miniatures they paint outside of their job, the list goes on. Now if you keep your creative staff on such a short leash, you are just asking for trouble and preventing them from interacting with the rest of the community will cause stagnation in the long run.

From a business standpoint this is kind of understandable, the painting is good enough to draw the eye of a new hobbyist and good enough to give them something to aspire to. However when experienced hobbyists start looking down on your "crack team of painters", you do have an image problem that will affect how your company is seen by your customers.

Then again, the business side of GW is notoriously for not caring even a little bit about what existing hobbyists think as long as they can keep reeling the new customers in. This isn't true with the parts of GW that actually deal with people or the actual products, but unfortunately they have very little to say in what the company actually does.

[rtmaitreya]

Kant > Schiller.

I kan't read that entire schilly essay. Too long.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Blood Angels and Necrons uniting against the mutual threat of Tyranids? Makes sense to tackle the biggest pending threat. Necrons are nothing if not historically pragmatic. Walking away at the end? Blood Angels are nothing if not noble. Issue is therefore one of personal taste, and following a fashion for many.

Actually considering that necrons are made of metal and are non organic the tyranids would have ignored them if they just didn't show an attack stance. They just had to sit back and watch as the tyranids ate the organic blood angels, and it would have killed two birds with one stone. No organic life on the planet, and an adversary of the blood angels would be dead, and when the tyranids were done they would have just got up and left.

That is a big part of why this makes no sense, the necrons had no reason to work with the BA, in fact they had every reason not to.


I remember when I saw the new plastic dark eldar scourges and i was blown away. They are so detailed and delicate with so much 3d motion in the models, especially the wings. That made me realize that whatever you say about GW they still make stunning plastic models and although there are plenty of other smaller companies out there making amazing kits, GW is the master of plastic.


I could not agree with you more here, the quality of the scourge kit is just stunning, just a beautiful beautiful kit.

[Mr Mystery]

Actually considering that necrons are made of metal and are non organic the tyranids would have ignored them if they just didn't show an attack stance. They just had to sit back and watch as the tyranids ate the organic blood angels, and it would have killed two birds with one stone. No organic life on the planet, and an adversary of the blood angels would be dead, and when the tyranids were done they would have just got up and left.

That is a big part of why this makes no sense, the necrons had no reason to work with the BA, in fact they had every reason not to.




I could not agree with you more here, the quality of the scourge kit is just stunning, just a beautiful beautiful kit.

Necron Lords are however quite, quite insane. They were fighting for their dominion. It is a poor general indeed who lets the Barbarians sack his land to spite the Romans!

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Necron Lords are however quite, quite insane. They were fighting for their dominion. It is a poor general indeed who lets the Barbarians sack his land to spite the Romans!

not really, its a poor general that wastes resources defending organic matter that they no longer desire or need, in fact have a desire to destroy themselves anyway. Especially when letting the place gets sacked only helps said general by taking out an enemy, not losing god knows how many troops (something necrons can ill afford), and clearing out all the organic matter you were already wanting to destroy anyway. (because if I remember correctly the brocrons story came out before the new necron codex, so that context is important.)

[Mr Mystery]

Initially Necrons were farming the Galaxy to feed the C'Tan. And like a good farmer, you see off parasites.

[Kyban]

Apparently fluffwise the Nids and Crons hate each other, so while it might make sense for them to get along they don't actually put up with each other.

[Sainhann]

Citadel became No.1 when they were the first tabletop miniature company to really embrace plastic injection moulding. Not the first to use, but the first to really push it. As for talent, no problem there either. Whether or not you like the aesthetics on a technical level GWs kits are superb.

True, but then they went to Finecast Resin and while I would get some of their plastics I will never own a Finecast Resin miniature.

Oh and most of their miniatures are Finecast Resin.

But back to the thread yes, GW has lost nearly all of it old designers and it is showing.

The recent release of the Dark Angels stuff is not receiving good reviews and the Landspeeder is just getting panned.

GW is focusing to much of big huge models that probably hardly anything to make but are selling for $60-$75 for one.

Now the Dark Angels Codex will cost you $50 before tax.

Now my only Space Marine armies are Dark Angels & Guardians of the Coverant but $50 nope I thing I will have to pass on that.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Initially Necrons were farming the Galaxy to feed the C'Tan. And like a good farmer, you see off parasites.

That is a very valid point, idk, I have just always felt that story was a bit of a stretch.

[Kyban]

That is a very valid point, idk, I have just always felt that story was a bit of a stretch.

I think with the new fluff Necrons are much more reasonable as well, esp. after offing their C'tan buddies.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I think with the new fluff Necrons are much more reasonable as well, esp. after offing their C'tan buddies.

It is true that under the new lore it does work a lot better.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Blood Angels and Necrons uniting against the mutual threat of Tyranids? Makes sense to tackle the biggest pending threat. Necrons are nothing if not historically pragmatic. Walking away at the end? Blood Angels are nothing if not noble. Issue is therefore one of personal taste, and following a fashion for many.

*loud applause* Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Witch_Hunter]

I think a lot of the complaints against the dreadknight are to do with:

It has enough in common with existing GW minis (the original war walker in particular)

It doesn't look like something Space Marines would use. It doesn't even look all that Imperial. Not much of a concern to me really, as I've no intention of collecting Grey Knights, but I think the Contemptor would be a much more suitable looking stand in; it's just a fat Terminator basically. Perfect.


I remember when I saw the new plastic dark eldar scourges and i was blown away. They are so detailed and delicate with so much 3d motion in the models, especially the wings.

The Dark Eldar release has to have been the best thing GW have done in recent years. They completely revamped the model lineup but kept the look of the army completely intact. Definitely want to get round to collecting a few of them eventually, the new Talos gives me good fuzzy feelings.

[Wildeybeast]

To address the OP, no they haven't. They have lost some stalwarts, true, but they still have some great people there. Jervis Johnson, Jes Goodwin and John Blanche are still there, ensuring that GW stays true to it's roots whilst providing stability and quality. Jeremy Vetock is another old hand. They also have some fantastic sculptors, designers and artists from the 'younger' generation who keep the quality high. Whilst the work of Ward and Cruddace may divide opinion, the likes of Phil Kelly consistently produce excellent rules and in terms of consistent high quality, GW produce models and artwork as good as anyone else. I don't see any problems with more experienced members of the team moving on. Like any company, GW need an injection of new blood and fresh ideas every so often to ensure they stay competitive. There would only be a problem if they didn't retain the right mixture of experienced heads and ambitious youngsters.

[archimbald]

To address the OP, no they haven't. They have lost some stalwarts, true, but they still have some great people there. Jervis Johnson, Jes Goodwin and John Blanche are still there, ensuring that GW stays true to it's roots whilst providing stability and quality. Jeremy Vetock is another old hand. They also have some fantastic sculptors, designers and artists from the 'younger' generation who keep the quality high. Whilst the work of Ward and Cruddace may divide opinion, the likes of Phil Kelly consistently produce excellent rules and in terms of consistent high quality, GW produce models and artwork as good as anyone else. I don't see any problems with more experienced members of the team moving on. Like any company, GW need an injection of new blood and fresh ideas every so often to ensure they stay competitive. There would only be a problem if they didn't retain the right mixture of experienced heads and ambitious youngsters.

The best answer so far, although the point about them focusing more on larger models is also pretty valid

[Wildeybeast]

The best answer so far, although the point about them focusing more on larger models is also pretty valid

Why thank you. I try my best. :)