Hive Fleet Rakshasa - 1500 pts Tyranids

[DWest]

It appears I'm becoming one with the Hive Mind once more, so it's time to dust off the old list and see if it can be made to work for 6th. Most of what I'm listing here is assumptions based off of other games I've played in the current edition, so advice and/or rocks to the head are appreciated.

Hive Fleet Rakshasa
HQ: Hive Tyrant (Armored Shell; Old Adversary; Bonesword & Lashwhip, T-L Devourer w/ Brainleeches) 250 pts
-main HQ and center anchor for the army. Since Preferred Enemy affects shooting as well now, hoping to keep most of the guns close by. Ditching his powers for 2 rolls in Biomancy.

Troop: Termagaunts (15 models; 14 Devourers / 1 Strangleweb) 155 pts
-a big blob o' gaunts who can hopefully dakka down their opposing number in the other guy's army. The Strangleweb is there to maybe get pins so I can charge things easier.

Troop: Genestealers (11 models; Toxin Sacs; 1 upgrade to Broodlord, w/ Scything Talons) 235 pts
-these guys are more-or-less a suicide bomb, sent up front to try and distract the enemy until the rest of the army gets in close. If they live long enough to cause some havoc or take an objective, so much the better. Broodlord is swapping powers for 2 rolls in Telekinesis.

Troop: Tervigon (Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands; Catalyst and Onslaught) 210 pts
-pretty much mandatory. Not sure yet whether to swap powers for Biomancy or keep as-is; I got a lot of mileage out of Onslaught when I used to field this list.

Elite: Hive Guard (3 models) 150 pts
-Hive Guard. 3 of em. Yep.

Elite: Zoanthropes (2 models) 120 pts
-I could see swapping their base powers for some Telepathy goodness if I'm facing a horde rather than a bunch of vehicles.

Elite: Venomthrope (1 model) 55 pts
-Probably won't live long, but I only need 1-2 turns of cover to get in close, I hope.

Heavy: Carnifex (2x T-L Devourer w/ Brainleeches, Frag Spines) 195 pts
-The all-purpose carnage dispenser. Frag Spines are there to finish off points.

Heavy: Biovores (2 models) 90 pts
-Can't go wrong with Barrage weapons now that they snipe again.

Misc: Mycetic Spore (1 model) 40 pts
-I put this down here because I'm not sure what to put in it. If I put the Gaunts in, I have no screen for my main pile. If I put the Carnifex in, I probably won't be able to get it into Synapse after the initial landing, limiting its' usefulness. If I put the Zoanthropes in, they will most likely get shot to bits the turn after they arrive.

[rpricew]

HQ: Hive Tyrant (Armored Shell; Old Adversary; Bonesword & Lashwhip, T-L Devourer w/ Brainleeches) 250 pts
-main HQ and center anchor for the army. Since Preferred Enemy affects shooting as well now, hoping to keep most of the guns close by. Ditching his powers for 2 rolls in Biomancy.

Solid choice as 2+ is hard to come by in the dex. Will be slow, but you know that and are ok with drawing fire.


Troop: Termagaunts (15 models; 14 Devourers / 1 Strangleweb) 155 pts
-a big blob o' gaunts who can hopefully dakka down their opposing number in the other guy's army. The Strangleweb is there to maybe get pins so I can charge things easier.

This is an outstanding unit, but I've had luck with just running 10 man units. Sure it makes them more vulnerable, but opponent's are often lulled into complacency when the unit is smaller. Then bam, they unload with 30 shots and it's 2-3 dead Marines. Especially if they are near the Tyrant. The strangleweb is pretty much a waste, but if you can get it to work, then more power to you. Podding them is good, but it's a sacrificial unit then, where keeping them close and screening them with spawned Termagants is usually better.


Troop: Genestealers (11 models; Toxin Sacs; 1 upgrade to Broodlord, w/ Scything Talons) 235 pts
-these guys are more-or-less a suicide bomb, sent up front to try and distract the enemy until the rest of the army gets in close. If they live long enough to cause some havoc or take an objective, so much the better. Broodlord is swapping powers for 2 rolls in Telekinesis.

The only effective uses I've seen for Genestealers, is converting them to Ymgarls or running them as a 5 man 150 point Commando squad. With overwatch and 5+ cover, typically what happens is the Broodlord lives long enough to hit combat with a unit by himself and he does a great job as a character killer. Keep the codex powers since BS0 means bad news if you roll poorly. Infiltrate to make your opponent think or to deny a flank. Ymgarls are ++1 in this edition, combined with Hive Commander or the Swarmlord they will wreck face in 8 man units. Take +1 T on the turn you arrive and charge away. Swap for +1 Attack on the next round... rinse and repeat.


Troop: Tervigon (Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands; Catalyst and Onslaught) 210 pts
-pretty much mandatory. Not sure yet whether to swap powers for Biomancy or keep as-is; I got a lot of mileage out of Onslaught when I used to field this list.

Solid choice, although I'm not a fan of Onslaught since it only effects one unit and denies the Tervigon a charge that turn. Sure it will get your Hive Guard in range a little quicker, but there are better choices. Rolling for Biomancy really depends on your opponent. Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Endurance & Warp Speed are great, but I've been letting the Tyrants & Zoans take care of Biomancy and keeping Catalyst on the Tervigons, and that works pretty well too. Consider Crushing Claws on the Tervigon with Catalyst for 220 points. They don't call it a Crushigon or Tervifex for nothing. Smash @ Str 10 = 2 + (1 Charging) + (D3 Crushing Claws) + (D3 Warp Speed) = 5-9 attacks


Elite: Hive Guard (3 models) 150 pts
-Hive Guard. 3 of em. Yep.

For the first 20 games of 6th I benched these guys (and they still aren't in my reg list) for Ymgarls with Hive Commander and I never missed them. Of course in a game against Necrons I brought down 3 Flyers with 2 sets of 2 in 4 turns, so they are still awesome.


Elite: Zoanthropes (2 models) 120 pts
-I could see swapping their base powers for some Telepathy goodness if I'm facing a horde rather than a bunch of vehicles.

Versatile solid unit. Against Runes, which has become the new candy of allied choice, you are going to struggle with them, so don't count on them. They are fun, but I've had more success running 3 and swapping 2 of their powers for support powers while keeping the 3rd with codex powers. Sometimes I run them as single units, since they draw fire like crazy and my opponent has to waste a whole unit to kill one model.


Elite: Venomthrope (1 model) 55 pts
-Probably won't live long, but I only need 1-2 turns of cover to get in close, I hope.

Leave this guy in the case. Cover is so easy to get in 6th and his rules were nerfed by the FAQ. It's just not worth it any more. I've got three that ride the bench every game, because those slots are dedicated to Ymgarls, Hive Guard or Zoans


Heavy: Carnifex (2x T-L Devourer w/ Brainleeches, Frag Spines) 195 pts
-The all-purpose carnage dispenser. Frag Spines are there to finish off points.

Awesome in a pod, awesome on the ground (still costs 30 points too much, but oh well) I interchange a Devilfex for a Trygon depending on my mood, but the Devilfex usually get's the play unless I'm running across the board. The extra wounds with the Trygon (with FNP) makes it much more survivable when footslogging


Heavy: Biovores (2 models) 90 pts
-Can't go wrong with Barrage weapons now that they snipe again.

great for sniping characters, and awesome against any SV 4 army (Tau, Necrons, IG behind the Aeigis, Orks)


Misc: Mycetic Spore (1 model) 40 pts
-I put this down here because I'm not sure what to put in it. If I put the Gaunts in, I have no screen for my main pile. If I put the Carnifex in, I probably won't be able to get it into Synapse after the initial landing, limiting its' usefulness. If I put the Zoanthropes in, they will most likely get shot to bits the turn after they arrive.

best when taken in pairs or trio. Target saturation is your best friend in 6th. When one of these come down, it becomes target #1. So you either have to bring several or multiple deepstriking units to confuse your opponent. I personally give mine to the Doom of Malantai. He is just too big of a target and can buy crazy time for your army to make it across the 24" no mans land. Add a Flyrant and put that big ole Trygon in the middle of the board...it's just fun to watch them squirm.

In my area, Tyranids are winning 4/5 games and people are learning to fear the Horde.

[DWest]

What about Warriors w/ Deathspitters, they look good on paper, but are they actually quality? I obtained a 2nd edition Hive Tyrant recently, and he . . . is tiny, and so is going to get a new lease on life as a Prime. I'm looking at a completely foot horde as an option. I have a Flyrant, but he has been benched ever since he died from one single salvo from a 5-man GK Interceptor squad. I know I shouldn't hold a single dice roll against the model, but I'm going to anyway for the moment.

[rpricew]

In my opinion, warriors are only good in certain situations. Warriors, being T4, are very susceptible to Str 8 shooting. They are on average 40-50 points kitted out properly. They are the same price as Terminators but without the durability. I've had limited success outflanking them in a unit of 4 with Boneswords, toxin sacs & Deathspitters with a Prime with LW&BS, TS and Deathspitter. I've had this unit take out Assault Terminators, hold objectives, blow up vehicles and be a general thorn in people's side.

Downside: it's a 350 point unit that's slow, especially if you shoot it. This unit works better with Swarmlord since you can re-roll table edges. The key is having proper target saturation to keep them alive. When I ran them, it was one of 7 units that arrived from reserves on turn 2 with Hive Commander.

Another way to run them is to have a 3 man bare bones unit with Deathspitters and a Barbed Strangler to hold a back field objective. It's about 105 points and very hard to clear off without assistance from a Battle Cannon. ;)

[deed116]

Only take warriors if you're taking a tyranid prime for the BS buff. Rather than the zoanthroapes i would advise the doom of malan'tai I cannot stress enough how good this guy is when you put him in a spore. Also i'd look to ditch the fex, as cool as they are (and i have infinite time for a S9 monster that is shoots and smashed things to peices) The tyrant does this too.
With the points that gives you, I think you could benifit from another big squad of gants to gain preferred enemy. You're bang on with the fact that it effect shooting makes it so so much better now, so why not have "ALL THE GUNS!"? :P
I love the biovores (IG behind an aegis? lol) and 55pt venomthrope (this guy is great).
Other than that, solid list bro.

[Tynskel]

Personally, I would swap the carnifex with a screamer killer.

Same price, and you can put it in the pod.
195 Screamer Killer
–Carnifex, 2 Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Frag Spines, Bio Plasma

You can shoot a plasma cannon, charge through cover, and go first before most things that could hurt you. You get 5 attacks (6 if feeding) and re-roll to hit at str 10. not many things have a solid chance to destroy a land raider in one round of combat.

[rpricew]

Personally, I would swap the carnifex with a screamer killer.

Same price, and you can put it in the pod.
195 Screamer Killer
–Carnifex, 2 Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Frag Spines, Bio Plasma

You can shoot a plasma cannon, charge through cover, and go first before most things that could hurt you. You get 5 attacks (6 if feeding) and re-roll to hit at str 10. not many things have a solid chance to destroy a land raider in one round of combat.

I disagree with this. The Screamer Killer is certainly a fun unit to use, but in 6th edition he has become more of a 3rd choice. First of all, you can't charge the turn you come in with the pod. Maybe the pod gets a lucky shot with it's BS2 shooting (I've had it happen) and maybe you will get a glance/pen with Bio-Plasma. But probably, Bio-Plasma will scatter or you're opponent will make their cover save, and then your Screamer Killer will get shot down. You would have to drop right in the center of the action, since the Screamer Killer would need to assault next turn to really be active. Your threat range being 12-18" if you survive your opponent's turn.

Instead you should take the Devilfex in the pod. This way you can have an 18" threat range the turn you land, and with 12 TL Str 6 shots, you're going to glance/pen most Rhino based vehicles. Go for side armor and you're moving onto Chimera based vehicles too. Need to take out that Manticore, then drop the Devilfex nearby in cover (ignoring dangerous terrain tests) and shoot it down. The Dakkafex still has 5 attacks on the charge, hitting before the PF and if you give it Toxin Sacs, you're going to be re-rolling those wounds on whatever you're hitting as well. Team this up with a Flyrant with Old Adversary/Hive Commander and it just gets scary.

Either way, make sure sending your Fex into your opponent's backfield isn't a solo mission. Adding multiple threats like a deepstriking Trygon, Swooping Flyrant, Devilgants in a Pod, Doom in a pod, running Trygons, Tervigons advancing will saturate the battlefield and increase the likelihood your TMCs will survive and score you the win.

Unfortunately, Screamer Killers have gone the way of the Genestealer, there are just better units to do, in 6th edition, what they used to do.

** Edit: Another option, if FW is allowed in your area, is the StoneCrusher Fex. With a 2+ save, it's really the only CC option of a Fex that's worthy in 6th. Albeit, it's still 30 points overcosted, but most of the big gribblies are anyway.

** Edit 2: What other models do you have available to you to play with?

[DWest]

I was sorting through my models last night, and aside from the things I've listed (still technically need to buy the Biovores, and have a Prime but haven't bought Warriors till I know for sure they'll pull weight), I have:
-a second Tervigon, which is magnetized to swap to a Tyrannofex w/ Acid Spray or the BFG (not amazing I know, but might make a decent first-strike option in larger games)
-a Trygon
-enough Genestealers to field 16 + 1 Broodlord
-a 2nd Venomthrope

I ran a pretty focused list in 5th, and technically I don't have a ground Tryant at all right now- my only model is a Flyrant, and like I said earlier, the 2nd ed Tyrant is *tiny*

[rpricew]

HQ:
Flyrant (Dual TL Devs, Hive Commander, Wings, 2 Biomancy) - 285/Warlord

Elite:
1 Hive Guard - 50
1 Hive Guard - 50
8 Ymgarls - 184

Troop:
Tervigon (TS/AG/CC/Catalyst) - 220
Tervigon (TS/AG/CC/Catalyst) - 220
10 Devilgants - 100
10 Devilgants - 100
5 Genestealers: 4 plus BL (TS, BL: Scything Talons/Implant Attack) - 148

Heavy:
DakkaFex (Dual TL Devs, TS) w/Spore - 240

1497 points

This list is more of an alpha strike list. Keeping the Flyrant, DakkaFex, Ymgarls in reserves while possibly infiltrating the BL/Genestealers to deny a flank. Keep the Hive Guard separate to allow for multiple targeting and to keep the Assault/Auto Cannons from wiping out the whole unit in one round of lucky shooting. Your Tervigons and Devilgants need to advance and take the center of the board. Spawn to capture rear objectives or to create screens for your advance.

I have played with the 2 Terv/2 Gant units in a lot of 2K games and the two Tervigons & Devilgants are durable enough to keep your opponent from getting the easy table if you make good use of cover/FNP & Night Fighting.

This pretty much comes from models you already have, I would run the Hive guard right up behind the Tervigons.

[Tynskel]

I think you forget that you can 1) move 6" when deploying from the pod, 2) use the pod as cover.

The Dakka Fex is just as high priority as the Screamer Killer.
Second, you never send a fex by itself. They must always be supported. That pretty much goes for all bugs.

The reality is that with the list described above, there's plenty of units that can be in support position for the Carnifex.
I like the Screamer Killer because, quite frankly, you don't care if it gets shot at. In fact, you want people to shoot it. It means they are not shooting at the rest of your army.

The Dakka Fex is really good at blowing up light armor, and medium troops, but moderately good at close combat. It, unfortunately, spends most of its time swinging and missing. The Screamer killer is extremely good at close combat and busting up heavy vehicles. The Plasma Cannon is for Giggles, basically a "Oh, terminators, well, eat it." The major problem with this list is that it doesn't really have a 'super bug' in front to bust up anything. You either want to use a Trygon or a Screamer Killer. I like the Screamer Killer because it is easier to get cover saves, especially since it brings its own cover with it (pod), and it is reliable at smashing anything.

[rpricew]

I think you forget that you can 1) move 6" when deploying from the pod, 2) use the pod as cover.

The Dakka Fex is just as high priority as the Screamer Killer.
Second, you never send a fex by itself. They must always be supported. That pretty much goes for all bugs.

The reality is that with the list described above, there's plenty of units that can be in support position for the Carnifex.
I like the Screamer Killer because, quite frankly, you don't care if it gets shot at. In fact, you want people to shoot it. It means they are not shooting at the rest of your army.

The Dakka Fex is really good at blowing up light armor, and medium troops, but moderately good at close combat. It, unfortunately, spends most of its time swinging and missing. The Screamer killer is extremely good at close combat and busting up heavy vehicles. The Plasma Cannon is for Giggles, basically a "Oh, terminators, well, eat it." The major problem with this list is that it doesn't really have a 'super bug' in front to bust up anything. You either want to use a Trygon or a Screamer Killer. I like the Screamer Killer because it is easier to get cover saves, especially since it brings its own cover with it (pod), and it is reliable at smashing anything.

1) Tyranid Codex Pg. 54 states that models must be placed within 2" of the Mycetic Spore. Codex>BGB

2) What makes you think that I'm forgetting about Spore Pod cover? Even with cover, it doesn't take that much to kill a Carnifex. It's actually about the same as what it takes to kill a Trygon without cover. Another beauty of the pod, neither one of us mentioned, is its ability to score Linebreaker as well.

I think you make good points and if you like the Screamer Killer more than the Dakkafex with this list, then use it. I'll even try it. It really comes down to what models/units fit with your play style more than what looks best on paper or in a vacuum.

[Tynskel]

My bad, I forgot about the 2" rule.

[Houghten]

I guess there's no incentive to Amend it until they come out with an actual model...

[Learn2Eel]

I think the choice of what Carnifex to use really depends on both what you expect to fight and what you think is best. My winged Hive Tyrant with dual-brainleech devourers has been my most consistent bug in every game, he always wrecks transports, gets the rear armour of things like Dreadnoughts and is really good at killing off small squads such as Devastators which are a real threat to the rest of my army, all on turn 1 or 2. The Dakkafex is similar, though it is less mobile once it is down, deep-striking and putting it anywhere within 2" of the mycetic spore means you have a lot of room to move and get where you need it. And it is no slouch in combat either. For where I play, the Dakkafex would probably work best, particularly based on what else is in my army - if I'm not using Flying Hive Tyrants, Dakkafexes become almost mandatory alongside Hive Guard. That isn't to say I think the Screamer Killer is the unfavored option - again, it depends on where you play. A plasma cannon shot is always good, and as Tynskel said, it is a wrecking ball that will ram through most things it can get to - Land Raiders, infantry squads, etc. Just be careful which unit to send it against, it is still a decent points investment.

[DWest]

So I got in a test game with a slightly altered version of this list, vs. Codex Marines, and while a sample size of 1 isn't terribly enlightening, I had the following impressions:
-Biovores aren't incredible, but they're decent for the points cost, and can earn their keep.
-Warriors were not quality.
-2+ armor is only as good as your ability not to roll 1s.
-the Tervigon w/ Crushing Claws was every bit as good as advertised and then some with Iron Arm. (S)he marched right across the table and ate everything that was dumb enough not to run.


Thinking of re-doing the list along the following lines:
HQ: Hive Tyrant (2x T-L Brainleech; Wings; Old Adversary) - 285

Troop: Termagants (16 w/ Devourer) - 160
Troop: Genestealers (7 w/ Toxin Sacs, 1 Broodlord w/ Toxin Sacs, Scything Talons) - 184
Troop: Tervigon (Catalyst; Crushing Claws; Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs) - 220

Elite: Hive Guard (2) - 100
Elite: Hive Guard (2) - 100
Elite: Zoanthropes (2) - 120

Heavy: Carnifex (T-L Brainleech, Bio-Plasma; Frag Spines; Mycetic Spore) - 240
Heavy Biovores (2) - 90

I'm still not 100% sold on the Flyrant, but I need to be able to get the Old Adversary bubble in position better. I split and added a Hive Guard so I can shoot more things, and the Screamer-Killer is there to play anvil to the rest of the army's hammer. Thoughts?

[Learn2Eel]

Against MEQs, Biovores aren't going to be amazing, their best use against Space Marines is sniping out special weapons/characters. Against infantry with 4+ or worse armour though? Watch the carnage.
What targets were you using your Flyrant against? I find their best use is to hunt Long Fangs and their equivalents, wreck transports or AV11 or lower equivalent vehicles, or get to the rear armour of nasty vehicles such as Leman Russes or Dreadnoughts.

[rpricew]

If I may suggest, don't get caught up on "making the Old Adversary bubble work" when playing with a Flyrant. If it works for a turn here or a turn there, great...but don't let it become your single minded focus.

Since your shooty bugs (other than the Flyrant himself) are very slow. If you're keeping your Flyrant near the Hive Guard/Devilgants then you're not utilizing one of his most important features... Mobility! If you're creating a Shooty Deathstar, then you're better off with a 2+ walking tyrant flanked by Hive Guard, Dakkafex, and (2) 30 man or (4) 15 man Devilgant Broods. Plus just for kicks, add in 2 separate units of Biovores hiding behind it all dropping blasts. At least that 25 points is multiplied over and over again for effect. If you're keeping Old Adversary, then think of him as a Surgical Strike unit.

For example: If next turn the DakkaFex & Spore are dropping into you're opponent's backfield to take out that Manticore (insert juicy target name here). Well it might make sense then for the Flyrant to head into enemy territory to add to the target saturation and get the Dakkafex under Preferred Enemy. Of course, you have to remember, the Fex may just be that turn's distraction to allow your Tervigon to secure a nearby objective and it makes more sense to NOT sacrifice the Flyrant.

I love preferred enemy, especially when shooting with things that wound on a 2. Hive Guard & Brainleech Devourers are just awesome when re-rolling 1s, but being able to get to a certain part of the board to handle a certain situation is one of the strongest attributes of the Flyrant.

I was playing a game against GKs with 2 Stormravens loaded with Strike Squads and IG allies. We were playing Bases (swap and tie) and I sent half my army to take his base. His two Stormravens come in and start hammering my base. Out come the Strike Squads and gone are my troops. I had to turn the Flyrant around and send him back up the field, since it was already turn 3 and he was the only unit fast enough to get there. He got within range in one turn, made some awesome saves, and was able to contest my base scoring me the win.

I've almost completely dropped Old Adversary from my lists, as it's more important for me to bring my reserves on turn 2 with Hive Commander than Preferred Enemy. If I'm going to add a Force Multiplier to a unit, I want it effecting as many units as possible. The Flyrant is usually blowing up tanks, flyers or like Learn2Eel said, Heavy Support Choices, but in the end, he usually doesn't live past turn 3 anyway and is almost flying solo or accompanied by a Harpy or Gargoyle screen.

I've said it other places before and I'll share it with you... I'll gladly sacrifice everything in my army to make sure when the game ends, my troops are sitting firmly on the objectives for the win (obviously KP missions excluded).

[DWest]

My problem is at 1500 points, I'm on a 6 x 4 table, and I had to spread out pretty quickly in order to get at everything which needs gotten-at. With the speed the foot Tryant moves, I couldn't keep everyone in the bubble and reach my targets effectively. Also, there's the practical matter; I don't have a foot Tryant model at the moment.

Also, I really want to like Raveners, but I would have to paint them *very* nicely, cause they look like they'll live just long enough for the opponent to go "ooh, pretty, now put 'em back in the case".

[rpricew]

Also, I really want to like Raveners, but I would have to paint them *very* nicely, cause they look like they'll live just long enough for the opponent to go "ooh, pretty, now put 'em back in the case".

I LOL'd at this... unfortunately, this is just about right. Great models, but the rules for them are just a little bit lacking. Same thing happens when I field my Shrikes. I made the mistake of taking on a Noise Marine army with Raveners, Shrikes & Gargoyles (double FOC at 2k)... Let's just say there was a lot of Turn 1-2 packing on my part. No cover/armor save = Bad Day for Tyranids.

I totally understand your dilemma with the Walking Tyrant, and my intent wasn't to push you towards one. I personally haven't fielded a walking Tyrant in 6th except the Swarmlord. I personally think the Flyrant is going to serve you as well as it's serving so many of us. I was just trying to point out that Old Adversary isn't the game changer rule that some think it could be. Use it, but remember to use it wisely is all I was saying.