Fall to Chaos? Loyalist SM chapter considering switch to new 'dex...looking for input

[Kevin48220]

So, I've been looking at the new Chaos Marines codex and getting more interested in the backstory of the Chaos Marines--a combo of the info from the BRB, the codex itself, and reading some of the better Chaos-based fiction from BL (ADB's Night Lords, McNeill's Iron Warriors stuff mostly). This past year, I've been running a standard Codex Space Marines army.

I had the thought of starting a Chaos Marines army--but realized that I really can't do that right now, as I've just invested in starting Necrons as a project for 2013. Right now, I can't justify the expense of starting an entirely new army. Then, some helpful daemon whispered in my ear: "Well, in that case, then maybe your loyalist Marines should fall to Chaos."

It's a sorely tempting thought, from a narrative as well as a modeling standpoint. I could get into the idea of doing a chapter of fallen Marines--specifically, my own loyalist chapter falling to Chaos--and having to redo their icons, add the mutations, and otherwise turn them into Chaos followers.

However, my only thought is about how the codex plays relative to the basic marines codex. I like the reliability of the marines codex, but frankly, seeing the same stat lines and equipment for so many units is getting a bit tedious. I like the idea of running them as Chaos Marines because it looks like there is a bit more flexibility with how units are built and played. I'd also like to be able to ally with something that isn't just other Marines.

Just curious as to what opinions any players using the new Chaos codex might have on the thought of switching an army from standard codex to the new Chaos book--particularly from how the two books play relative to each other, but really, any thoughts are welcome.

[Fizzybubela]

If you're not bothered about Necrons then start a CSM army instead.

[Thefallen]

I just use my dark angels. I have not bought a single chaos model yet. I just stick with all power armor models. You can make some really strong lists just using what you already have.

[Kevin48220]

That's more or less what I was thinking--I can still use my power armor models, vehicles, and the like, just with the new codex. I'd have to pick up a few things, certainly, but what I have right now would be an effective core.

I'm mostly just wondering about playing under the new codex. I'm not necessarily looking for an auto-win army (yes, I know I'm starting a Necron army, but I'm not spamming flyers), just something with more flavor and variety in units and lists than standard marines.

[Thefallen]

If you like bikes chaos bikes are great and points efficient. take 10 bikes with mark of korne or slaanesh and icon of wrath or excess. = pure awesome. Korne lord on a bike with the demon axe is a total close combat monster. Add to korne bikes and bam. instant fast moving, T5, deathstar for 450ish pts. Auto cannon havok squads are point for point the most effective unit in the codex. Every game ive used these guys in, they have made at least double their points back. Raptors are pretty good if you like jump troops. The hellchicken, personally I hate the model but its a very good unit, in game. The tanks are on par with the loyalists versions. overall the chaos codex is a good solid book but with out spamming the hellchickens and havoks or demon allies, it wont stand up to the tier 1 armies.

[Kevin48220]

Demon allies are something I am definitely interested in running, there are a lot of possibilities with that; also, Chaos Marines would ally better with the Necron army I'm working on right now. Ideally, I'd like to have both of my armies and/or allied factions able to stand up to top-flight lists (eventually, I'm still pretty new and still learning--but you have to have goals, right?).

One thing I'm interested in is close combat, and the regular codex marines (outside of units like Terminators and Assault Terminators) just don't stand up well to it. I love the idea of jump troop marines, but my assault guys get smoked every time, and Vanguard are ungodly expensive to run. I'd like to be able to be a threat at range and up close, and I haven't quite found the mix yet in the standard codex.

[heretic marine]

and another is falling in to the grasp of the four gods.
I love Chaos they were my first army. I have seen them in their best and their worst and this codex is one of their best.
is there any god that you are leaning towards? or are you gonna be undivided?

[Kevin48220]

I don't know. I'd have to look at the codex more deeply. Right now, this is just a hypothetical--I'm considering it b/c it looks like I might have more fun playing the Chaos Marines codex than the regular Codex Marines one. There's just a bit more flavor there (in the background stuff), the stat lines are actually varied between units, and the units don't largely have the same special rules.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that to start with, I wouldn't specialize--it would be fun to explore the various options and see how they all play out.

HM, what is your impression of the variety of units in the codex? Does it provide a basis for making a wide variety of lists?

[heretic marine]

it does give a WIDE variety. you can focus on any playing tactic with them, whether it is range, melee, flanking, etc, etc.
you can go with a mix of any tactic too, you don't just need to focus on one thing with your army (it is sometimes better if you don't focus on just one aspect).
marks and icons open up a new world of possibilities, and with chaos lords unlocking more troop choices your options are expanded even more.
I have played Space Marines and they just seemed a little dull to me, granted they are a good codex. I just don't think they are as exciting as chaos.

[ElectricPaladin]

It's true. Space marines are a solid codex, but they aren't incredibly exciting. They don't do any one thing super well, most of their best weapons are peppered throughout squads mostly armed with bolters, and you don't see a lot of special rules, other than the eternal And They Shall Know No Fear, and the occasional squad with Infiltrate, Stealth, or Scouts. Personally, I enjoy them, but contrast them with, say, the Eldar, who I'm learning. Eldar can field squads composed entirely of meltagunners. Their Exarchs can purchase USRs like Hit-and-Run, Ignores Cover, and the like. You could build an Eldar force that outflanks or infiltrates everything and not miss out on any kind of firepower. My other army, Tau, have markerlights, 72'' AP 1 weaponry, and basic weapons that can crack light vehicles. It's not a matter of power, but it does make marines a bit more boring in contrast.

But they are a solid, well-written codex, and if you're into the game as purely a matter of strategy they can be fun. For cool toys, though, there are better codices.

[Kevin48220]

I'm rapidly discovering that as I make my way through the Necrons codex. But, your point is well taken; the basic codex marines are a more purely strategic army, as they don't have as many shiny toys and special abilities as other armies. They have to find synergy and builds that will let the units work in tandem to support and amplify each other.

I guess the best solution to this issue is just to have three armies--one each of loyalist, xeno, and chaos. Looks like I'll just hold off until my Necrons are done, and then start a Chaos army.

[heretic marine]

good luck.

[Kevin48220]

Thanks. I'm looking at my existing Space Marine force, thinking that I'll weed out my extra models and such for the Chaos army--I should be able to use that as a 'seed' force to start growing the army from. I may also look into picking up a DV box--could probably use the DA models as chaos power armor guys in addition to the chaos force that's already in the box.