Dark Angels Rules - CONFIRMED

[Bigred]

Rumors are behind us, the codex is out there.

Here's the latest:

Collated by Faeit 212 (1-9-2013)

- The special rule "Inner Circle" gives hatred against Chaos Space Marines and Courage.
- The table of Warlord includes options to increase the turboboost of bikes, +1 / -1 to the roll of reserves etc...
- Belial can change their weapons as before. And yes, he does make Terminators troops.
- Sammael makes RW bikes troops as, also.
- Azrael gains +2S and AP3 for his sword. makes both RW and DW troops.
- No specific psychic Dark Angels. Ezekiel has a power that is S4 AP 2, D3 shots, I believe.

Deathwing Knights
- +1 To their Toughness if they are base to base.

Land Speeder Revenge
- The Plasma Storm Battery is S7 AP2, 3 small blast or 1 large blast.

Land Speeder Shroud (80 pts)
- Has the dark rule, which gives +2 to it's cover save.
- A 6 "units gain Stealth.

Ram Ravenwing
- Rift Cannon: Strength 5, AP-, blast, blindness.

Nephilim (about 150/160 pts) According to Warseer 180.
- Avenger Mega Bolter: Strength 6, AP4, heavy 5
- Missiles : Strength 6, AP4
- Unrelenting Hunter: Allows exchanging a result of the enemy weaponry destroyed by an immobilized result.

Black Knights Ravenwing (126 unit 3)
- Hammer Corvus: Strength +1, AP-, Rending.
- Plasma Talons 18" plasma guns.

Command Squad Ravenwing.
- Same points as the Black Knights.

Ravenwing (80 points a unit of 3)

via Baret
80 points for a 3man bike squad! 27 points for each additional member. They still come with scouts, have special combat squad splitting (3/3 bikes and the AB and speeder separately (so 3 scoring and a vehicle). 126 points base for those fancy command bikes, their plasma is only 18" though..


Termie squads are 210, have split fire rules, can take 10 members with heavy weapons per 5. They are 44 Points for each additional member.

Everything has a version of stubborn.

via Archibald_TK on Warseer
(the one where we got some infos during the SoB WD release). I was reluctant to post them as the other posters in the thread mentioned it comes from a new rumourmonger but after seeing what the German forum says I suppose they may be true (or they may be coming from the same source so salt and all of that)


A brief summary of what we didn't know before:
- Azrael giving 4++ to his squad; has a S6 P3 weapon
- Warlord table gives +1d6 to turboboost distance/reroll running roll to the Warlord unit, furious charge, +1/-1 to reserve rolls, fearless, he mentions one giving "insensible" which I cannot translate as it's not a rule I know, it sounds like the beginning of the French FnP rule "insensible à la douleur" but I highly doubt he was referring to that
- Nephilim close to 160 pts with upgrade, gatling gun same sucky stats as discussed before
- The weapon of the Deathwing Knights champion is +2S AP3 and cannot be switched for something else
- Inner Circle mentioned as being Fearless, Hate (CSM) like in the other rumour
- Caliban Halberd +2S AP2 strikes at Init
- Access to Divination
- He mention later that while he didn't really check for that, the little boxes that you usually see in the army list allowing to switch FOC slots, he only remember them next to the 3 SC

via chizal on Warseer

In store atm with the codex. all i said is conformed. bane of the traitor(-1ap vs c:csm in cc) is deathwing knights weapons only .

Neph fighter is 180 with either weapon option

azrael does unlock both wings as troops
He has to be in the primary detachment

Also inner circle is fearless and PE c:csm
Blade of caliban is str+1 ap3 unwieldy but a lot cheaper then a normal pweapon

cammand squads are fixed number and can be taken 1 per hq of the same type

Special items include conversion and displacer and power fields. random stat monster slayer power sword and a weapon thats str+3ap3 bane blind concusive

Armoury in the codex called the armory of the rock. also small tidbit is all missle launchers can be upgraded to flak apart fron the whirlwind which got screwed. also dev squad are super cheap. 5man squad with 4 multi meltas 110pts lol



Are the fixed numbers 5-man for Deathwing and 3-man for Ravenwing?
Correct 5&3


Black sword missiles S6 AP4? It wasnt the megabolter with these stats?
both have those stats. bolter r48 missles r36 also rhe fighter has missle lock spacial rule i. the army list but has no blast missle. some silly mistake as it makes no sense we hope


belial 190 any load out
land raiders with deathwing vehicle now have the venerable rule so may reroll pen results


do Land Raiders have to pay extra to get the deathwing vehicle rule?
30 extra and has to have it

No storms. no homers on scouts.chaps &libs can take bikes. only gramd master unlock troops. can have a techmarine per hq taken


Do standard bikers have Skilled Rider?
Nope only black knights


Veng strike gives all models twin linked shots the turn they deepstrike
smite is str+6 ap2 one use. Doesnt say if it to one attack or all that turn.
The fighter has missle lock in the points section at the back but does not have any blast missles so must be a mis pri t.
The deathwing vehicle rule is just anotber name for venerable


If it says something like “Once per game the DW knights can make an attack at ……….” People would start questioning is that in addition to normal attacks? Does it get used for all attacks? Does it replace their attacks with one attack?
Here’s hoping we don’t need to argue about it for 2 months…….
It has its own sub profile str+6ap2 melee one use only


What about named characters?
Same old 5. Some new rules like azrael can choose his warlord trait from the 6 new ones. unlocks both wings as troops. also him or belial lets you not scatter with his unit when deepstriking. had to leave and there was no way to sneak the book out the store

Ezeke is mastery 3 has to take mindworm and then rolls twice on any except biomancy

Chaplain one gets instant death in melee but no ap or his crozius

oh and samiel is the only eternal warrior again

-Enjoy!

[JimmyWolf2007]

Nothing there looks ridiculously overpowered, apart from maybe the Devastator Squads, given that they can at least Snap-Fire every turn even if they move now. Somewhat surprised the Rift Cannon, which sounded like it was going to be a stupidly powerful gun of awesome, is S5 AP - and small blast.

Vetock appears to have gone down the route of an edition update, rather than an edition overhaul.

[AwesomeWolf]

Odd points on the RW bikers, the base three are one point cheaper than three added (80 versus 81), and doesn't include a Sergeant baked in...?

[Houghten]

Here's one you can just about make out from the White Dwarf, but I don't see here:

Sammael's Iron Halo now works on his Land Speeder.

[phil035]

Hey, thought I'd add what I know about the stuff thats coming from studying the pics in white dwarf. As shown in the battle report scouts are troop choices now. Company Veterans Are more like chosen is weapon choices.
Company Veteran Squad 90
Wargear:
power armour
boltguns
bolt pistols
frag grenades
krak grenades
Special rules:
And they shall know no fear
Combat squad
(something can't make it out)
options:
Add up to an additional 5 veterans 18pts
May exchange bolterguns for chainswords Free
Up to three veterans may exchange their bolt guns for one of the following:
storm bolter 5 pts
combie weapon 10 pts
power weapon, single lightning claw or plasma pistol 15 pts
power fist 25pts
Pair of lightning claws 30 pts
Any veteran may take:
combat shields 3pts
metla-bombs 5 pts
storm shields 10 pts
For every 5 veterans in the unit can exchange one mans bolter for:
flamer 5 pts
meltagun 10 pts
plasma gun 15 pts
one veteran may exchange his bolter for one of the following:
heavybolter 10 pts
multimelta 10 pts
missle launcher (frag and krak missles) 15 pts
(upgrade to flakk missles) 10 pts
plasma cannon 15 pts
lascannon 20 pts
may take a drop pod, rhino or razer back as dedicated transport

over all thats nasty and the heavy weapon will be faq'd to squads of 10+ can take one of the following

[Dominic]

Sure on one of the Warseer pages there was something along the lines of Belial and his squad deepstriking first turn with no scatter and having TL weapons on the turn they deepstrike too, he has a teleporter homer too

Edit

More info from Warseer, if it could be added to the OP that would be great


In store again briefly.

Talons r18 twin linked rapid fire plasmas. the grenade launchers are evil. knights can take one every 3 bikes. rad grenades are s3 ap- but units hit are -1t fir the turn. stasis grenades no damage but -1ws&i for the turn.

deathwing assault means you decide in secret which units come in turn one or turn two. no need to roll for reserves and its not just half your dwing but any amount

[phil035]

Sure on one of the Warseer pages there was something along the lines of Belial and his squad deepstriking first turn with no scatter and having TL weapons on the turn they deepstrike too, he has a teleporter homer too
from the battle report it looks like all models with deathwing assault come on in the second turn and if termies take a land raider it gains the rule "Deathwing vehicle"

[Dominic]

Think I just Ninja'd you with the new info there ;)

[Mr Mystery]

I wonder how the stasis weapons will affect cover as equipment based modifiers, and whether the effects will stack?

For instance.... I stasisificate some Howling Banshees with two hits from stasis grenades.....

Do they become WS2, I4?
Do they become WS3, I5?
Do they become WS3, I10 (masks boosting them back up)
Do they become WS2, I10?

Hmmmmmm.

[phil035]

I wonder how the stasis weapons will affect cover as equipment based modifiers, and whether the effects will stack?

For instance.... I stasisificate some Howling Banshees with two hits from stasis grenades.....

Do they become WS2, I4?
Do they become WS3, I5?
Do they become WS3, I10 (masks boosting them back up)
Do they become WS2, I10?

Hmmmmmm.

its -3 bs and -3I for atleast 1 turn one shot only though

::EDIT::

Think I just Ninja'd you with the new info there ;)
so you did XD

[xilton]

Based on what we see stats wise, anyone else see the 2 talons way over priced points wise compared to other flyers. 1 twin-linked las cannon, that 5 shot assault cannon no AP, weak missiles ect. everyone else gets way more or at least more ap, armor ect for the points value. it's 45 pts more for a lot less then a vendetta for example et 10 more then a chaos dragon flyer for less power and AV. What did I miss. They make everything to sell them but this one......

I also don't see much more in the codex to make this army sell more. ok, new termies and a couple new vehicles but points wise, not sure. There's not much to make the army actually better then it was before or at least make it worth while to buy them compared to the other codices that came out. It went from oooo they are coming out to oooo they barely changed and not enough to be more then just plain marines that can't compete very much.

[Mr Mystery]

Easy now! All we have are snippets so far. Wait until the Codex is in you (hopefully not cold, dead) hands before passing judgement.

I mean, the Stasis Bomb is nothing to be sniffed at. Dropped right place right time and it can turn a battle!

[ElectricPaladin]

It looks to me like it's going to be a codex cast in the same mold as the new Chaos codex: a decent update that captures the spirit of the original (more or less, of course; you can't please everyone without making a tome), has some neat distinctive tricks, but doesn't do anything ridiculous. Personally, I'm hoping that this is the pattern of all codex releases from now on. I have greatly enjoyed my games against the new Chaos 'dex, and not because I win them all (in fact, I'm 1 for 2 against new Chaos). It's a good, solid codex. I'd like to see more codices like this.

Of course, we'll see if this is a trend when we have more than one and a half data points.

It also looks to me like they are changing the focus of Dark Angels, but it looks like it's a solid focus. My understanding is that the Dark Angels used to be the shootyest of the shooty marines. These days, though, they're all about terminators and bikes - the "alternate" forms of marine models - and it seems like they're running with that, with more options for armies dominated by terminators and bikes. And that's ok, I think. It should make the Dark Angels distinct, but not, I think, overpowered.

[Dominic]

More info


Belial has precise shot on a 5+. Him and his squad of all inner circle do not scatter. his sword is is ap3 fleshbane

[Prodigalson]

/sigh

The problem is that Dark Angels codex has always been TRASH. Always, all the time and in perpetuity. It was trash when it came out as part of Angels of Death (Blood Angels were better). It was trash when it came out as the pamplet (your own troops would refuse to move 1/6th of the time). It was trash when it came out last time (the Space Marine book of 4.0 was better and then when marines were edited to be 5.0, they were better as well).

There may be some great stuff in it, but certainly didn't want to hear that it was a "nice balanced codex".... that's like going on a blind date where your friend says she has a nice personality. In both cases the truth is the same, their dogs. I'm not giving up hope till I get my hands on it, but the flyers really do sound bad and unplayable, which is just sad, because I liked the models.

[Ryan Billington]

last one was good, the all bike/ all termie mix was so strong. fearless termies that could have TH&SS and a cyclone and a banner and an apothecary. same for bikes.

[ElectricPaladin]

There may be some great stuff in it, but certainly didn't want to hear that it was a "nice balanced codex".... that's like going on a blind date where your friend says she has a nice personality. In both cases the truth is the same, their dogs...

I don't know. I want my armies to have nice, balanced codices. I've stayed away from broken armies because that's not the play experience I want. I'd be disappointed if, in their next update, my Eldar or my Tau, or even my Blood Angels or Space Marines, were suddenly broken and overpowered. I mean, it might be fun for a while, but the novelty would wear off.

[Thefallen]

Wtf.... Im soo happy I just bought 2 flying turds.

[Kawauso]

Wtf.... Im soo happy I just bought 2 flying turds.

I don't think the answer to things like Vendettas was for GW to make similar units in other codices.

The rules for the DA flyers look fine; I'm not sure what you're complaining about. The Nephilim can put out, what, 7 S6 shots a turn? And they can exchange their Heavy Bolters for a twin-linked Lascannon, can't they? That's going to put the hurt on other flyers and light armour.

And the Dark Talon has 2 hurricane bolters and a S5 small blast...that's forcing a lot of saves and is good against infantry squads of almost any disposition.

[Nabterayl]

You know, the Valkyrie and Vulture were both originally 11/11/10. When they were re-released as Fast Skimmers rather than true flyers, I think the upgrade in armor points was a good way to represent the unit. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if when the Valkyrie/Vendetta and Vulture are re-re-released as flyers in the next IG codex, they go back down to 11/11/10.

[Nathan Flentjar]

To everyone in here complaining about not having an uber-dex:

Nawww, wanna lolly? Will that make you stop your whining? Chaos didn't get an uber-dex, why did you guys think you would?

Oh, I get it. Because you guys love the hell outta GW's lame superman posterboys. Personally, I think the crappy parts of the 'dex balance out the stupidly OP stuff, which in my mind is what makes a good codex. Sure, people will still make broken ****ty monobuild armies using this one, but it's not the big fat slice of cheese that either Crons or Knights were.

[phil035]

To everyone in here complaining about not having an uber-dex:

Nawww, wanna lolly? Will that make you stop your whining? Chaos didn't get an uber-dex, why did you guys think you would?

Oh, I get it. Because you guys love the hell outta GW's lame superman posterboys. Personally, I think the crappy parts of the 'dex balance out the stupidly OP stuff, which in my mind is what makes a good codex. Sure, people will still make broken ****ty monobuild armies using this one, but it's not the big fat slice of cheese that either Crons or Knights were.

hmmmm i saw almost this exact thing written about the choas codex commpaired to the grey knights

[Kawauso]

You know, the Valkyrie and Vulture were both originally 11/11/10. When they were re-released as Fast Skimmers rather than true flyers, I think the upgrade in armor points was a good way to represent the unit. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if when the Valkyrie/Vendetta and Vulture are re-re-released as flyers in the next IG codex, they go back down to 11/11/10.

I dunno, they could have adjusted the AV when they gave them Hull Points in the rulebook...I think if they intended to do it that would have been a good time.
I imagine when IG get a new codex their flyers will just be re-costed.

[eldargal]

There may be some great stuff in it, but certainly didn't want to hear that it was a "nice balanced codex".... that's like going on a blind date where your friend says she has a nice personality. In both cases the truth is the same, their dogs. I'm not giving up hope till I get my hands on it, but the flyers really do sound bad and unplayable, which is just sad, because I liked the models.
I'll ignore the sexism, but all this amount too is 'boo, I wanted a broken codex so I could make other people cry the way they've made me cry, waah'.

Just because you've had a bad codex for years doesn't entitle you to an overpowered book now, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. If this is a well-balanced book (and it appears to be) then that is only good for Dark Angels and good for 40k.

The only problem I see is the Nephilim which is a good anti-light vehicle fighter when its background says it is good at anti-air. Which it isn't particularly.

[mafiacheese]

Sooooooooo I'm guessing the rumors about Sgt. Naaman returning were just that, rumors?

[Houghten]

Wishlisters gonna wishlist, as they say.

As to anti-light-vehicle vs. anti-air... aren't they kind of inherently the same, being as how the highest flying AV is 12?
That said, when your Ork equivalent can outshoot you, you know you're doing something wrong.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Wishlisters gonna wishlist, as they say.

As to anti-light-vehicle vs. anti-air... aren't they kind of inherently the same, being as how the highest flying AV is 12?
That said, when your Ork equivalent can outshoot you, you know you're doing something wrong.

isn't there a big difference in ballistic skill though?

[eldargal]

Wishlisters gonna wishlist, as they say.

As to anti-light-vehicle vs. anti-air... aren't they kind of inherently the same, being as how the highest flying AV is 12?
That said, when your Ork equivalent can outshoot you, you know you're doing something wrong.
Yep but the Nephilim does something like 3 glancing hits on avrage to AV10 and only .67 to AV12, and a lot of the 'best' (read dramatically underpriced or overpowered) flyers are AV12. Even then Necrons can spam a lot of cheap AV11 that are very effective and owuld take a lot of time for a Nephilim to kill. Having said that the rest of the army can put out a lot of shots that would threaten flyers even hitting on 6s so it probably won't be a big problem for the army.

[Daemonette666]

I just hope they limit the skyfire missiles upgrades to Devastator squads only, and make them just as expensive to upgrade as they have in the CSM codex. I would be disappointed if they started a trend in the 6th edition codexes where the Traitor/ Daemon and Xenos codexes paid more points for their equipment than the Imperial codexes - again.

Being able to build a Fallen Army based on the Dark Angels codex was a ray of hope that was leaked or rumoured, but I have doubts that that will occur. If it does eventuate, I expect there will be a list of equipment, units, named characters and upgrades that you can not get if you opt to make a Fallen Army. But I expect you get Cypher as a possible Named Lord HQ, and they have Preferred Enemy Space Marine instead.

[DrLove42]

NEw Rules

From Faeit


via Chizel on Warseer
is the only way to unlock Termies or Bikes troops to get the special characters or can basic HQ with the right war gear unlock them as well?

Also, what are the largest sizes for the command squads? 5 for termies and 3 for bikes?

Specials unlock them as troops. normal hq unlock them as command squads

Mindworm is d3 s4 ap2 focused witchfire and -3ws/bs/i per wound taken


What are the max number of terminators and bikes you can have in squads?
10 for each unless command which are locked at 5/3


I guess you had to expect that for a tripple plasma cannon battery. is it's twin linked or not.

Its not a triple cannon but a heavy 3 plasma gun. no blast. the charge shot is a heavy 1 large blast though


Talons r18 twin linked rapid fire plasmas. the grenade launchers are evil. knights can take one every 3 bikes. rad grenades are s3 ap- but units hit are -1t fir the turn. stasis grenades no damage but -1ws&i for the turn.

deathwing assault means you decide in secret which units come in turn one or turn two. no need to roll for reserves and its not just half your dwing but any amount

special piece of wargear called a porteract. if the character kills an enemy chara ter in melee yoh army can now use the enemies locator and teleport beacons


Is there a generic Captain/Master/called whatever with option for SM Bike or Terminator armour?
Bikes and t armor are in as equipment for the normal masters.
No extra powers other than mindworm (missed out it also lowers ld as well as the other three stats) and its r12
No stern or vangaurd.

Belial has precise shot on a 5+. Him and his squad of all inner circle do not scatter. his sword is is ap3 fleshbane


Tac squads&vets get grim resolve=stubborn.
Perfid relic= adamantium will + fear


Do DW knights get their 3+ invul and T5 (from being base to base) in the turn they deep streak?
Lastly, does the stasis bomb effect vehicles?
yes t5 as they have to be in b2b when deepstriking and stasis says it effects any unit so im guessing walkers would be counted as well


chapter standard is all units within 12 get to reroll all morale and pinning checks and +1a to his unit
then the lesser ones have those rules split up.
ravenwing lets them autopass hit and run and roll an extra d6 for distance.
Company standard is 12" rerollorale & pinning.
Deathwing one is 6" +1a to all inner circle.

Then theres the daddy standards. one per army.
All have the 12" morale pinning rule then either;
All units in 12 get counter attack or
all in 12 get fnp or
all boltguns in 6 get salvo 2/4
Edit salvo effect is only within 6"


"All friendly Codex: Dark Angels units within 6" treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons"
Thats amazing. Ravenwing bikes... Tactical squads... Hurricane Bolters! ()
yeah we were just talking about having the command squad flanked by two full tac squads, 100 bolter shots a turn thank you very much


do Company Masters affect the FOC by taking TDA or a Bike? Do they just unlock a command squad from the respectively taken wargear?
only the grand master special characters effect the foc

the dark shroud may only be hp 2 but it does have jink, stealth and shrouded so could survive a while.,


via Lion El Jason on Warseer

Conversion fields are 4+ Inv. At the end of any phase where a save was made nearby units test for blind.
Displacer 3++, at the end of the phase scatter D6"
Power fields give models within 3" a 4++

Monster slayer is a power weapon, roll D6: 2-4 +1STR, 5-6 +2STR and Instant Death.

There is a combi plasma with Assault1 Blast plasma part and an assault 3, AP4 storm Bolter there too.
I like the Mace of Redemption. Str+3, AP3, Blind, concussive, AP2 vs C:CSM.
There is also an item for FnP and shrouded.


Flakk is 10 points on tac, scout, veteran and dev Missile Launchers. You do not lose frag & Krak.
No flakk for CMLs.

Stasis Anomaly". RW Grenade launcher gives -1 WS and Init to a UNIT hit.

Are there limits to the LS variants you can take with an attack squadron?

Can you take a "support squadron" of landspeeders and are there limitations on variants?
No, 1-5 LS and any can be upgraded to typhoon or tornado. New tornado options too, double multimelta now available.


Blade of Caliban for champ. Nerfed power axe.
Sgt can upgrade to "Power Weapon" so can be a sword.
Thats all.

No options for HQ bikes that I have found. Techmarines CAN have bikes though.


All HQs can have bikes except company masters and named characters.
There are no additional options for the bikes to make them plasma talons or anything.


Fleshbane! AP3
Master Crafted, WS6 and Fleshbane means the SoS is a real option now. He has a special rule for shooting too (Though only a storm bolter) so you kind of waste that with the TLC and TH&SS options.

We know Ravensword is AP2

Asmodai has Blades of reason again!
Str as user, AP- Instant death, Specialist weapon.


Azrael got FnP (6+)! hehe.
His plasma gun also has Blind USR.

All Landspeeders have Deep Strike too.


RW Attack Squadron is almost identical to last codex. More Tornado options, can have typhoon, Pay for the MM upgrade on AB, The Squad with 2x Melts, AB with MultiMelta and Sgt with combi-melta is possible at 165points.
Has Hit & Run and Sgts and Vet Sgts can take combi weapons and things like Lightning claw, TH and stuff.

The RW banner means you auto win the init roll to hit & run too.


Regarding Techmarines:
*How many servitors are allowed?
1-5
*What is the cap on servitor heavy weapons? Is it two max same as Codex Space Marines?
Yes
*Can DA Techmarines fortify terrain?
Yes
*Are there any traits or wargear items that distinguish them from Techmarines in other Chapters?
Grim Resolve, all Special Issue Wargear allowed (Except Jump Pack).

Originally Posted by bobafett012
does belial come with warlord trait of his own or do you roll on the DA or rule book table?
Belial (And Asmodai and Ezekiel) has "The Hunt" which is about the worst warlord trait I've seen. Its a small chance of +1 VP.
Sammael has rapid manoeuvres and Azrael can choose from the DA table.


So Dark Angels get access to GK Rad Grenades. Joy of Joys

So based on what i've seen you can take a Techmarine, who doesn't take up a slot. Use him to fortify a ruin (3+ cover). Then have a Nightshroud park close with a Tac Squad in the ruins (everything gets a 2+ save), and have the banner than makes the boltguns salvo 2/4....

2 10 man units, with a 2+ cover save firing 40 shots each. Eeeeep

[phil035]

I just hope they limit the skyfire missiles upgrades to Devastator squads only, and make them just as expensive to upgrade as they have in the CSM codex. I would be disappointed if they started a trend in the 6th edition codexes where the Traitor/ Daemon and Xenos codexes paid more points for their equipment than the Imperial codexes - again.

Being able to build a Fallen Army based on the Dark Angels codex was a ray of hope that was leaked or rumoured, but I have doubts that that will occur. If it does eventuate, I expect there will be a list of equipment, units, named characters and upgrades that you can not get if you opt to make a Fallen Army. But I expect you get Cypher as a possible Named Lord HQ, and they have Preferred Enemy Space Marine instead.

all i can say is that veterans can take flakk so i think they'll faq the chaos one to include all units that can take missel launchers can take flakk if not it kinda screws over chaos

[Mr Mystery]

Jesus! The spelling! The acronyms!

I know it's a quote from another site, but seriously. If you're going to post up rumours and info, make sure it can actually be read with ease!

And still waiting until that book is in my hands before believing one iota. Well, beyond the stuff published in WD.

[Learn2Eel]

For anyone itching about Dark Angels, I'll have the codex before you Northerners do. Yep. All 10 hours of it or whatever.
Jokes aside, for what it is worth, I'll be posting up a summary of any interesting tidbits. I'll also point out if any of the stuff mentioned earlier is bunk/correct. I'm actually not as interested in the special wargear stuff being toted up, more-so interested in the points cost of 'generic' Dark Angels - such as Tactical Marines. Given the Veterans pricing, it could be that Tacticals are going to be the same cost/cheaper than Chaos Marines - if that's the case, I think it will leave more than a few scratching their heads. "We have And They Shall Know No Fear!" "We have to pay for Fearless."

I can do a mini QnA if anyone wants, though I think it is probably best to just pop in a couple of hours later and grab the codex yourself lol.

[Thefallen]

Im with you MM. im gonna wait for the codex. Im hopeing that most of this stuff is BS. We shall see.

[chizal]

lol all my post on warseer were from my tiny smartphone and posting on forums is hell on those things. tried to get everything as close to 100% as possible but there were a lot of questions and a couple of things got jumbled

[Learn2Eel]

lol all my post on warseer were from my tiny smartphone and posting on forums is hell on those things. tried to get everything as close to 100% as possible but there were a lot of questions and a couple of things got jumbled

No worries dude, we appreciate the time and effort you took to answer all the questions everyone had :) It was a lot of good info!

[phil035]

Jesus! The spelling! The acronyms!

I know it's a quote from another site, but seriously. If you're going to post up rumours and info, make sure it can actually be read with ease!

And still waiting until that book is in my hands before believing one iota. Well, beyond the stuff published in WD.
Kinda wrote that in a rust and if you read the white dwarf it states most of the stuff on here anyway

[MajorWesJanson]

My main complaint with the Nephilim is that the weapons are far inferior to pretty much any counterparts. The Avenger Megabolter is not a megabolter (which is S6 AP3) but instead an Assault cannon that trades rending away in favor of an extra shot. And the missiles are the same strength with nothing special, they could have simply left them off and added 2 more shots to the avenger gun and gotten the same result. For being an "anti-air fighter" the Storm Talon is far superior to the Nephilim.

[Houghten]

isn't there a big difference in ballistic skill though?

Yes, there is. The Nephilim is BS4, non-twin-linked. A Dakkajet with Fighta Ace is BS3, twin-linked.

Care to guess which of those will hit more often?

Hint: It's the ork. And he gets more shots to boot.


The Avenger Megabolter is not a megabolter (which is S6 AP3)Not to mention that the Vulcan Mega-Bolter is Heavy 15, not 5. It's not as good as an Avenger Bolt Cannon, either, which leaves me scratching my head as to where they pulled that name from. If someone had taken the worst stats from the Avenger and the Vulcan and mashed them together, I could understand the name, but it's even worse than that.

[Bionic Boy]

Can anyone tell me if Ravenwing Black Knights move to the Elite-slot if you make a pure Ravening army(ie take Sammael)? From my point of view it seems as if the Fast Attack category is packed with choices even if standard attack squadrons is moved to the Troop category. So to me it would make sense to move the Black Knights to the Elite category.
I have to admit though that I am mostly a builder/painter just getting in to the gaming part of the hobby, so my observations are at best, just that, observations.

Thanks in advance.

[Raevyn Fletcher]

There is one rule I had seen time and time again pop up when looking at the rumors leading up to today. But now with the book release around the corner it seems everyone has forgotten. Do dark Angels have any special rules concerning plasma? Rumors stated either it was a universal rule, a warlord trait or something to do with a special character.

The other thing is there was mention of two more characters, namely Barakiel the master of the forge and Sergeant Namaan. Having heard nothing on either I guess they were just rumors.

Last is do the watches have an expanded role in the game now?

[miksheridan]

From what i could make out on the WD issue, the DA master of the forge is known as Master of the Rock (guitars at the ready) it'd be nice if there was the named character there but i'd settle for just having a techmarine thats allowed a conversion beamer so my forgeworld model would be table legal.

[Hammerhand]

People have overlooked the most broken thing in the codex. Power Field Generator. Trust me, this thing is a must for all allies. This thing will annoy everyone. Also, Conversion field and Displacer field are FUN. Just dont take Infravisor with C-field. That can backfire really fast.

[Hammerhand]

And what of the new specials? Just Asmodai. That´s it. And he´s just useless. If you like a chaplain, take an ordinary one.

[Hammerhand]

For anyone itching about Dark Angels, I'll have the codex before you Northerners do. Yep. All 10 hours of it or whatever.
Jokes aside, for what it is worth, I'll be posting up a summary of any interesting tidbits. I'll also point out if any of the stuff mentioned earlier is bunk/correct. I'm actually not as interested in the special wargear stuff being toted up, more-so interested in the points cost of 'generic' Dark Angels - such as Tactical Marines. Given the Veterans pricing, it could be that Tacticals are going to be the same cost/cheaper than Chaos Marines - if that's the case, I think it will leave more than a few scratching their heads. "We have And They Shall Know No Fear!" "We have to pay for Fearless."

I can do a mini QnA if anyone wants, though I think it is probably best to just pop in a couple of hours later and grab the codex yourself lol.

Sorry, this time north got you beat... You dont pay for fearless, nor being stubborn in this codex. Only the scouts have neither. And tacticals are 1pt over chaos cousins, drawback being that you have to pay for vet. sarges who have +1 at and ld 9. Plus the special wargear is where the fun is.

[Learn2Eel]

I meant the actual release date haha. "Paying for Fearless" was referring to Chaos Marines - for basic troops, either you attach a HQ, or you pay for an icon. Loyalists always have And They Shall Know No Fear.
Sounds good though that their Tacticals are more expensive, obviously it is meant to be balanced against Chaos Marines with Veterans of the Long War.

[Hammerhand]

Oh and the days of 5 men tac teams with heavy weapons are back. No point almost taking those special weapons anymore, though you cant take two of each if you have 10 guys.

If you want a good laugh, check out company champions and their puny +1 str ap3 unwieldy knives. No one wants them now. And banners are so-so, too expensive for anything sensible.

[Hammerhand]

From what i could make out on the WD issue, the DA master of the forge is known as Master of the Rock (guitars at the ready) it'd be nice if there was the named character there but i'd settle for just having a techmarine thats allowed a conversion beamer so my forgeworld model would be table legal.

Got some sad news. Master of rock is wired straight to the Rock. No conversion beam for you.

[Hammerhand]

If the scouts are the only one without stubborn or fearless though everyone has the atsknf... Hmmm, what could that mean? On the other hand, these Dark Angels do not flee away willingly.

[Learn2Eel]

That's always been a Dark Angels thing though, in the previous codex some of their HQs and banners generated re-rolling failed morale and pinning tests in a 12" or so bubble.
Five-man Tactical Squads with heavy weapons? Sheesh. Mind you though, they become easy fodder that way.

[Learn2Eel]

Over on Faeit, someone who has the codex pointed out a Tactical Squad is 70 points base, compared to 75 for a Chaos Space Marine one. The way it is balanced though is that the Tactical Squad Sergeant has the same profile as the Tactical Marines themselves - i.e. Leadership 8, 1 attack. The Veteran Sergeant upgrade brings them up to 80 points. The 5 point difference between the squad and the Chaos Space Marine one is then used to give the Chaos Marines Veterans of the Long War. So essentially, for the same cost, both have sergeants and four other dudes, the Tacticals have ATSKNF, though the Chaos Marines have higher Leadership (9/10 as opposed to 8/9) and Hatred. I think that is fair! As long as both units have identical pricing for special/heavy weapons, that is the mark of balanced play IMO. Sure, the more pressing or competitive mind might identify an imbalance there in favour of the Tacticals, but it is still good by me.

[Learn2Eel]

Cheers!

Will post some quick thoughts later.

The Warlord Trait table looks quite tame, which is nice. None of them stick out as all that great, one of them is even exactly the same as a rulebook one. Balanced against Chaos.

The Chapter Relics don't seem to be as powerful as some of the Chaos Artefacts (i.e. the Black Mace, the Burning Brand, the Axe of Blind Fury, etc). The Monster Slayer is random but decent, though not as strong as the Axe. The Feel No Pain one is cool. Also, a combi-weapon that fires a plasma cannon round? Overall they look decent but not fantastic, obviously points costs will determine how good they are.

On to banners now - all look pretty standard and cool. The sacred standards are every bit as crazy as people made out, though you are limited to one sacred standard per army. The radius on the "Boltguns are Salvo 2/4" is only 6", though the other effects of the banner (re-roll failed Morale and Pinning tests) are 12" - that sounds balanced to me, especially given how costly it is apparently. It means you have to clump your units and thus makes them more vulnerable to blasts/barrages/templates. Feel No Pain within 12" for a rumoured 85 points = :eek:

Looking at the wargear page, everything is priced exactly as you would expect against Chaos Marines. The relics prices are there too - looks like Chaos get the better relic combat weapons for their cost, though obviously combat is more a Chaos-centric thing. Seems a bit too costly to give the character FnP too. Though the plasma-cannon blast thing is quite cheap.

Overall looks like the two codices are going to be quite balanced against one another, it seems obvious they were designed to play hand-in-hand.

The Nephilim and Dark Talon weapons really are as 'average' as has been made out, and according to the QnA poster over on Faeit they are priced about the same as the Heldrake. That sounds like a big let down.

Huh, Darkshrouds grant +1 to combat resolution within 12". And yep, they don't have Stealth, only Shrouded - Stealth applies to other units within 6". Hardly as OP in tandem with Ravenwing as was being made out, sounds nice.

[Aspire to Glory]

Someone with a codex in hand is confirming rules on /tg

[Learn2Eel]

Wow, the Stasis Bomb on the Dark Talon only applies for one turn (-3 WS and I). Obviously it is based on timinng.

Looks like both the Dark Talon and Nephilim are Heldrake-priced or thereabouts. I think quite a few people will be disappointed with that given the costing of the Heldrake (I won't compare against 5th edition codex flyers).

Yep, Tacticals are as I said above. Their special/heavy weapons are also the same costs as Chaos Marines - by the looks of things, both basic Troops choices (and the vehicles are apparently the same costs too) are designed to be fairly balanced against one another. Tacticals don't get autocannons but gain plasma cannons. EDIT: Tacticals have Stubborn.

Scouts are slightly cheaper than in Codex: Space Marines. Like with Tacticals, you either take a standard Sergeant or pay for a Veteran Sergeant.

EDIT: I'll just let you guys find it yourselves :)

[Houghten]

*GASP* Sacred Standards!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Aspire to Glory]

*lets out a breath of relief*

Looks like they'll be fun to play, which is all I wanted.

[Learn2Eel]

Devastators seem perfectly balanced against Havocs as well. Depending on what people think of plasma cannons, I still think Havocs with autocannons look the best of either unit.

Agreed with both above posts, looks like a codex very much in line with Chaos; i.e. not OP, lots of good options, fun to play, fun stuff.

Interesting to compare Sorcerers to Librarians; the latter are a bit more expensive, pay a decent chunk more for a second mastery level (they can't take mastery level 3) and pay slightly more for Terminator armour. To counter that, they have Hatred: Chaos Marines base as well as Fearless, ATSKNF and access to Divination.

Company Masters seem balanced against Chaos Lords as well, whilst Lords would definitely be better for assaults depending on how they are equipped, Company Masters have better "buff" wargear.

There are some brutal combinations popping up though, revolving around the Banner of Destruction usually.

Note: It looks like the values I've been posting up may be wrong, apparently the limited edition codex has some misprints in the army list sections.

[Houghten]

Well, that's a novel way of getting me to buy the regular codex as well.

[Learn2Eel]

Hahaha!

[Averuen]

No Storm Shield option for Company Masters?

[Learn2Eel]

No they do have the option to take storm shields. But they also have access to wargear that provides invulnerable saves in a radius - though those are probably better served on a Librarian as the Company Master already has an Iron Halo.

[Averuen]

Hm okay, I just couldn't see it on that Wargear list. Its mostly for personal preference/modelling opportunity though. :)

[phil035]

Hm okay, I just couldn't see it on that Wargear list. Its mostly for personal preference/modelling opportunity though. :)

storm shield isn't on the wargear list at all think that might just be in the main options for each guy that can take them

[xilton]

I still think the flyers are a huge bummer. We won't bother with them with the weapons they have for the point cost. Just not worth it. Nice looking and that's it.

[Cosper]

The Blacksword missiles are a let down to me four of them equal an assault cannon. Vengeful Strike is nice.

[pauljc]

Guys, should you really be posting book scans on this forum?

That aside, I've already noted one funny combo involving 72 bolter shots, and the oddity that Company Masters can have Deathwing terminator armour, but not bikes.

[Cosper]

Are you referring to the salvo 2/4 banner? Because I dunno what it does :/

[pauljc]

Are you referring to the salvo 2/4 banner? Because I dunno what it does :/

Yep, that one :)

[Ataraxean]

Interesting to compare Sorcerers to Librarians; the latter are a bit more expensive, pay a decent chunk more for a second mastery level (they can't take mastery level 3) and pay slightly more for Terminator armour. To counter that, they have Hatred: Chaos Marines base as well as Fearless, ATSKNF and access to Divination.



Actually, one of the facinating things I noticed when reviewing the Army List Entries. None of the Dark Angels Independant Characters have ATSKNF. All the squads get it, so as long as you're with a marine unit you'll have it. But you can't drop a DA character into an Battle Brother unit (I.E. an IG Blob) and hand out ATSKNF like candy. You hand out fearless instead since they all seem to have have it in one flavor or another (mostly from Inner Circle).

Definitely an interesting change.

[pauljc]

Just FYI, Barcode, but I reported your posts for copyright violation. Nothing personal, but if those are your scans, you might want to take a look at the copyright info at the front of the book. :)

[bfmusashi]

He's from the Netherlands?

[Maxis Lithium]

Options are something to be considered too. The CSMs can trade for close combat weapons, or take holsters, sheaths and slings for 2 points a pop. Something that tacticals can't do.

[ElectricPaladin]

I've reported EVERYONE! TDA's storm troopers will be in your homes within minutes. If you hurry, you can jot down a quick goodbye to your friends and loved ones.

Seriously, people, can we all chill out. Pauljc is just doing what he thinks is right to protect BoLS from liability. It's up to the mods to look at the situation and make a decision. All that pauljc's report does is let TDA and BigRed know that something is up that might be worthy of their attention, and if you're right about fair use laws, they'll ignore it.

Can't we all just get along?

[bfmusashi]

Everyone's reported!

[Kyban]

How can I get in on this reporting action?! :p

[ElectricPaladin]

How can I get in on this reporting action?! :p

Reported!

[Daemonette666]

Lion's Roar says it is a gets hot Blast assault 1 master crafted weapon. The master crafted allows for 1 re-roll. Does this get applied to the gets hot roll or the scatter roll?

The codex will have to address this one or their will be lots of questions coming GWs way.

[Kyban]

Lion's Roar says it is a gets hot Blast assault 1 master crafted weapon. The master crafted allows for 1 re-roll. Does this get applied to the gets hot roll or the scatter roll?

The codex will have to address this one or their will be lots of questions coming GWs way.

It's a reroll to hit so it depends on how the gets hot for blast weapons is worded, wasn't there supposed to be something about DA being good with plasma though?

[lupo1982]

This codex is a TONNAGE OF ****.
I mean anti-air craft with FO6 missile?(Storm raven: we are so scared bro)
Anti-infatry craft with small blast fo 5 no VP?(any infantry: ohh we have a bd *** over here)
Deathwing or Ravenwing only viable trough special characters!
and **** and **** etc

[MarneusCalgar]

Who let dark angels out?

http://depositfiles.com/files/a2c8sepb9

[HERO]

This codex is a TONNAGE OF ****.
I mean anti-air craft with FO6 missile?(Storm raven: we are so scared bro)
Anti-infatry craft with small blast fo 5 no VP?(any infantry: ohh we have a bd *** over here)
Deathwing or Ravenwing only viable trough special characters!
and **** and **** etc

I couldn't make sense of any of this.

[Spamthulhu]

I couldn't make sense of any of this.

Me either, I think he is trying to communicate with us...

DO YOU WANT A COOKIE?!?

[Kyban]

"Do you want some hotdogs in a blanket?" :p

5pts to whoever gets the reference.

[mysterex]

Who let dark angels out?

If you understand Castilian :p

[phil035]

Me either, I think he is trying to communicate with us...

DO YOU WANT A COOKIE?!?

yeah..... i think he thinks that all missles can shoot a flyer if you take flakk and the fact that every unit can take them
::EDIT::

Who let dark angels out?



friggin hate you got my hopes up

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

The codex is now available on iTunes. I'm downloading it as I type.

[kevinmcd28]

Who let dark angels out?

http://depositfiles.com/files/a2c8sepb9

no hablo espanol lol

Ton parle anglais si vouz plait?

[spume]

The codex is now available on iTunes. I'm downloading it as I type.

Just for pre order, no?

[Houghten]

Lion's Roar says it is a gets hot Blast assault 1 master crafted weapon. The master crafted allows for 1 re-roll. Does this get applied to the gets hot roll or the scatter roll?Either / or. If you didn't need to re-roll the Gets Hot! roll, you can choose to re-roll your scatter-and-2d6; if you did need to, it's first scatter only for you, matey.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Just for pre order, no?

No, the actual ecopy is available. It finished downloading twenty minutes ago, and I went through the book.

[somba]

No, the actual ecopy is available. It finished downloading twenty minutes ago, and I went through the book.

still says only for per-order for me

but then again you are like 8-9 hours ahead of my time zone

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

still says only for per-order for me

but then again you are like 8-9 hours ahead of my time zone

Well, I am back in Australia, so anyone in my country can now purchase and download the book.

[wittdooley]

If you had a box of the terminators and a ravening bike box, how would you build them based on the rules?

[orinoco]

What a douch....



You have been reported as well.


yup. nobody likes a snitch, paulj

[Dominic]

Oh god, this will be modseer before we know it :s

Joking aside, I've just been able to download my copy of the codex on iTunes even though its technically Fridays still, not complaining like ;)

[Aurelian]

For all those complaining about the flyer, you should take a look to the special rule "Unrelenting Hunter" for some mitigation. If I understand it correctly, the rule was meant to make the Nephilim a better anti-air unit. Because Flyers count immobilized as destroyed, and Unrelenting Hunter allows the shooter to change a weapon destroyed result to immobilized, the Nephilim can destroy other flyers on a 4+ (3+ with the lascannon). Not sure whether this really makes up for the relatively sparse weaponry on a relatively pricey unit, but it should help some.

[Houghten]

Not if all you can achieve is a glancing hit...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I've reported EVERYONE! TDA's storm troopers will be in your homes within minutes. If you hurry, you can jot down a quick goodbye to your friends and loved ones.

Seriously, people, can we all chill out. Pauljc is just doing what he thinks is right to protect BoLS from liability. It's up to the mods to look at the situation and make a decision. All that pauljc's report does is let TDA and BigRed know that something is up that might be worthy of their attention, and if you're right about fair use laws, they'll ignore it.

Can't we all just get along?

Well put EP.

As for everyone else, paul was correct. That is a sign of copyright enfringement, and I, for one, do not wish BoLS to be associated to it. Keep this on 4chan where it belongs please.

Also, I totally DON'T have the Codex in my hands right now.

[Nabterayl]

Because Flyers count immobilized as destroyed, and Unrelenting Hunter allows the shooter to change a weapon destroyed result to immobilized, the Nephilim can destroy other flyers on a 4+ (3+ with the lascannon).
Flyers count Immobilized as Locked Velocity. Which is a very bad thing to happen to your flyer, but not as bad as dying :P

[Muninwing]

Interesting observations:
1. Bikes (but not Terminator armor) are in the wargear section. Does that mean a Captain can join up with Ravenwing?
2. In the scan of basic rules, it mentions that two combat squads made from the same unit can ride in the same transport, if I'm seeing this correctly. That seems tactically sound as well as super useful.
3. Combat squad of Deathwing with two Assault Cannons deepstrikes. Eight twinlinked s6 rending shots into rear armor. If you're me, they'd scatter off the board, but still...
4. Is there any reference as to if two darkshrouds affect each other with both stealth and shrouded?
5. Phrasing... Are just regular bolters affected by the standard (that gives salvo), or is it all bolt weapons? I'd assume just standard issue, but...

[Houghten]

1) There's a footnote that says a Company Master can't take a bike. Of course, he could still join the unit, taking a jump pack to keep up with them.
2) Yes, this ability has already been seen in the Space Marine FAQ.
4) The Darkshrouds don't give each other Stealth. Not that you need it; Jink plus Shrouded equals 2+ anyway.
5) It says "boltguns," which are your bog-standard rapid-fire bolter. That's not bolt pistols, and not storm bolters, but would include the bolter part of a combi-weapon.

[Aurelian]

Flyers count Immobilized as Locked Velocity. Which is a very bad thing to happen to your flyer, but not as bad as dying :P

Darn, I forgot. I still think the Nephilim is better than people think, but I don't actually have the money to buy a model anyway, so it's a moot point.

On another note, has anyone considered the argument that the rule "bane of traitors" should really work on any imperial faction under the reasoning "If you weren't traitors, why would I be smashing your face?" :P

[dirkspair]

DA show compassion and affection by smashing face, so things get confusing sometimes.

[Spikey McTorture]

Belial is a bada$$, that cable going into his power sword isn't a cable. 3559

[Azrael71]

I have just gone through the DA codex. Have no problems if people are whinging about azrael, i have one thing to say get over it i like that azrael rules all dark angels in the army are using his leadership and gives his squad 4+ invul. Asmodai can cause instant death and gains an extra kill point if he takes out any warlord in h2h. All DW vehicles and Dreads have preferred enemy rule. All dreads are deathwing. I am happy the way it the codex is balanced unlike others we can name. All our banners are back (about time). All bikes have hit and run special rules. As for the landspeeder vengeance love the idea.

I have had DA since angels of death days now have to redo my 30 termies with new choices in the codex.

Then work on 145 more troops not including bikes or vehicles and theres still 14 bikes, 4 attack bikes, 6 dreads master of the Ravenwing landspeeder, 10 Land Speeders (old metal ones),4 Land Raiders, 1 whirlwind, 2 preds, raorback and 1 rhino to do.

[daboarder]

For all those complaining about the flyer, you should take a look to the special rule "Unrelenting Hunter" for some mitigation. If I understand it correctly, the rule was meant to make the Nephilim a better anti-air unit. Because Flyers count immobilized as destroyed, and Unrelenting Hunter allows the shooter to change a weapon destroyed result to immobilized, the Nephilim can destroy other flyers on a 4+ (3+ with the lascannon). Not sure whether this really makes up for the relatively sparse weaponry on a relatively pricey unit, but it should help some.

Think you need to learn to play there mate....

[Mr Mystery]

Locked Velocity has it's used as well. Got troops on board? NO HOVER FOR YOU!

Plus it limits where the flier can threaten, as it has to keep going.

[Tynskel]

Just went through the codex. I really like it. You can put out a lot of marines, if you want to. The abilities seem balanced at first glance. I have a feeling that people are going to enjoy this codex.

[Defenestratus]

1) There's a footnote that says a Company Master can't take a bike. Of course, he could still join the unit, taking a jump pack to keep up with them.
2) Yes, this ability has already been seen in the Space Marine FAQ.
4) The Darkshrouds don't give each other Stealth. Not that you need it; Jink plus Shrouded equals 2+ anyway.
5) It says "boltguns," which are your bog-standard rapid-fire bolter. That's not bolt pistols, and not storm bolters, but would include the bolter part of a combi-weapon.

Incorrect. Jink (5+) plus Shrouded (+2) == 3+. (2+ if you flat out)

[Houghten]

Why wouldn't you go flat out?

[Defenestratus]

Because you want to shoot.

[Houghten]

It's a heavy bolter, or an assault cannon for an extra twenty points. I'd rather keep the twenty points and have my 2+ all the time, thanks. The army isn't going to miss those 3 S5 shots.

[Muninwing]

It's a heavy bolter, or an assault cannon for an extra twenty points. I'd rather keep the twenty points and have my 2+ all the time, thanks. The army isn't going to miss those 3 S5 shots.

at first, i really wanted to ask "well, why bother taking it then?" since most units are specifically for causing damage to the enemy.

then, i got a mental image of two DA tac squads in a fortified building with the command squad and the salvo banner, and the darkshroud zooming back and forth behind it each turn, away from the fighting but close enough to gift them its ability. tac squad bolters that shoot 4 shots at 24" fortified with a 2++ seems both ridiculous and crazy.

[Denzark]

Can anyone tell me what the point of Nephilims having missile lock is - it is in the army list but not the rules page. Is this just typo?

[Houghten]

I... don't see it in the army list?

There would be no point in giving that rule to a non-Blast missile anyway.

[Denzark]

Defnitely in the list of special rules in my fast attack section entry...

[Muninwing]

i'm betting that the Nephilim was priced as high due to destructive capabilities during playtesting... that then got nerfed. missile lock implies that once upon a time the Blackswords were something else. the Avenger cannon has different stats via FW.

if it had six S6 ap4 small blast missiles that never scattered... and a S6 AP3 hv7 cannon like its forgeworld equivalent... then the pricing would make a lot more sense, as well as the antitroop capabilities lauded as they were.

in development, they probably decided that they DA should have an antitroop and an antiflyer flyer, then they decided on two different antitroop styles (debuff and assault)... then tried to retweak... and muddied all the original ideas before releasing what they did.

given how many rumors had surfaced about this stuff being released last november, i wonder, too, if they had a cheez-fest set to go, then exercised a bit of restraint for once and (despite some confused blunderings) created a much more modest and balanced work with only a few problems. still, i can't see them selling the volume of DA flyers that they have Necron ones...

[rpricew]

still, i can't see them selling the volume of DA flyers that they have Necron ones...

I remember people saying the same thing about the Necron Flyers comparing them to Storm Ravens, and that turned out to be false. I see your point before my quote, but I bet there is something there that just hasn't been discovered on day 1 of the Codex drop. I think it wiser to reserve opinion until people get a few weeks with the codex and sort out some of the more interesting/subtle things.

[Aurelian]

Think you need to learn to play there mate....

Yeah, I was wrong there, already retracted it though. In my defense, I've been mostly playing against chaos and their flyer can't do much to Deathwing, so I mostly ignore it (not much I could do about it in the old codex anyway).

My point is that, while it may not have as much weaponry as we'd like for the point cost (meaning it may not be very competitive), it is clearly designed as an air superiority fighter, and I appreciate that GW designed it as such.

[Tynskel]

I think the Nephilim Jetfighter is good.

BS5 against almost everything. That a lot of firepower that practically doesn't miss.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I think the Nephilim Jetfighter is good.

BS5 against almost everything. That a lot of firepower that practically doesn't miss.


Agreed. It's fantastic. I assembled mine as a Nephilim with las cannons, so it should be very flexible for me.

[Muninwing]

Agreed. It's fantastic. I assembled mine as a Nephilim with las cannons, so it should be very flexible for me.

looking at the kit, i think i can magnet it to fit all options and switch it up. i really want to like the avenger cannon, i really want to... but i'm thinking that the las will end up being the best.

[Spikey McTorture]

looking at the kit, i think i can magnet it to fit all options and switch it up. i really want to like the avenger cannon, i really want to... but i'm thinking that the las will end up being the best.

I just magnetized mine, very doable, but time consuming.

[Muninwing]

i also had the hope to magnetize the new speeders, since i couldn't make up my mind as to which one i wanted.

then i decided that the plasma battery was too good to ignore. large pieplates of ap2 against GK termies? score. why not just go with that?

but then, i saw the potential for shrouding units in cover, especially for setting up a firebase with the salvo banner and multiple tac squads.

so i'm stuck. i hope the plasma battery and icon are easily swapped, above DJ Darkangel there...

[mallet_man]

if anyone knows where I might be able to find a PDF of the new book please PM me been looking around but haven't found anything yet :(

[gcsmith]

if anyone knows where I might be able to find a PDF of the new book please PM me been looking around but haven't found anything yet :(

Can't link stuff like that on the site mate. I would suggest maybe checking one at a gw store or buying one.

[Muninwing]

today's rumor post about datasheets for flyers was interesting...

"Eldar flyer and data sheet for it. Very similar stats to dark eldar flyer has missile lock, has distortion missiles."

missile lock again.

i'm wondering if the Nephilim's useless special rule is, like the "mastery level" clue on the GK codex, a hint of the future. it may be that it gets a boost to hit or damage to flyers, or some other nastiness, and that would account for the points and its lauded position as "supremacy fighter."

it might also be part of what slowed development from the projected november release... realizing that the special rule for this piece would make sense for others, then working on incorporating everything. it'd also justify their creation model as opposed to the PP "we do everything at once and release stuff gradually" model.

[rpricew]

"Do you want some hotdogs and a blanket?" :p

5pts to whoever gets the reference.

Fixed that for you... "Red vs. Blue" Pvt. Michael J. Caboose

[Houghten]

I just magnetized mine, very doable, but time consuming.

It's been less than 48 hours since the new models shipped... I wouldn't call that very time-consuming.


i'm wondering if the Nephilim's useless special rule is, like the "mastery level" clue on the GK codex, a hint of the future. it may be that it gets a boost to hit or damage to flyers, or some other nastiness, and that would account for the points and its lauded position as "supremacy fighter."

If we have to wait until 7th edition for it to make sense, we'll be waiting a long time. Do you think they'll amend the rule from the BRB?

[rpricew]

Maybe it will come out with the FAQ for the DA?

[Tynskel]

It's been less than 48 hours since the new models shipped... I wouldn't call that very time-consuming.



If we have to wait until 7th edition for it to make sense, we'll be waiting a long time. Do you think they'll amend the rule from the BRB?

I thoroughly enjoy the 1 dimensional thinking here.
Dark Angels Codex is about Synergy.

The Naphilim fighter immobilizes a target, that the ravenwing charges and destroys because it is auto-hit.

[Mr Mystery]

if anyone knows where I might be able to find a PDF of the new book please PM me been looking around but haven't found anything yet :(

Sorry to be rude, but what is it makes you so special you don't have to pay like everyone else?

[ElectricPaladin]

Sorry to be rude, but what is it makes you so special you don't have to pay like everyone else?

Give the dude the benefit the doubt, maybe? Perhaps he likes to have a pdf copy around so he doesn't have to lug the codex around with him if he wants to noodle around with lists on the go? Or maybe the copy he ordered is on its way from GW and he doesn't want to wait?

Either way, mallet, you don't want to ask for stuff like that here. It's against the rules, which is entirely reasonable because BoLS isn't exactly a multi-million dollar company ehre, and probably can't even afford a lawyer if GW gets suey. Also, use Google, lazy-butt.

[Mr Mystery]

Sorry dude, but pirates get on my pip.

I can't afford the book right now, so I go without. Not looking for a freebie.

[Houghten]

I thoroughly enjoy the 1 dimensional thinking here.
Dark Angels Codex is about Synergy.

The Naphilim fighter immobilizes a target, that the ravenwing charges and destroys because it is auto-hit.I thoroughly enjoy your inability to know what Munin and I are actually talking about here. The Unrelenting Hunter special rule isn't in question here, the Missile Lock rule is. It reduces scatter on Blast missiles, but Blacksword missiles aren't Blast weapons. The Nephilim has a rule it can never, ever benefit from, with or without your vaunted synergy.

Does that seem right to you?

[Tynskel]

I thoroughly enjoy your inability to know what Munin and I are actually talking about here. The Unrelenting Hunter special rule isn't in question here, the Missile Lock rule is. It reduces scatter on Blast missiles, but Blacksword missiles aren't Blast weapons. The Nephilim has a rule it can never, ever benefit from, with or without your vaunted synergy.

Does that seem right to you?
my codex doesnt have that rule... so, i dont see the problem...

[Houghten]

You know, this worries me a bit. Why is there a gap between the limited, unlimited and iPad editions of the DA Codex? Points costs, missiles with broken locks, Belial's now-you-see-it-now-you-don't Iron Halo... Did GW fire their entire QC department to save money?

[rpricew]

You know, this worries me a bit. Why is there a gap between the limited, unlimited and iPad editions of the DA Codex? Points costs, missiles with broken locks, Belial's now-you-see-it-now-you-don't Iron Halo... Did GW fire their entire QC department to save money?

Did GW have a QC department? :confused:

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Sorry dude, but pirates get on my pip.

I can't afford the book right now, so I go without. Not looking for a freebie.

Seconded. I'm sitting here flicking through a book that I can barely afford, but I bought it nonetheless.

[Iyandagar]

Despite the couple anomalies with the Codex, it is still in my humble opinion an exciting kick in the pants for the Dark Angels. So stuff will get faq'd, no difference to basically any other Codex that has preceded it. Heck flakk still hasn't been faq'd up across the board yet. Am I bothered? Nah I run Chaos and Dark Angels so I am happy that nobody else is toting Flakk yet... Looking forward to fielding my Nephy and Flying Mausoleum next weekend.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Iyan, I am calling it the Flying Mausoleum from now on, that's ace! :D

[Spikey McTorture]

Flyer pilots are nasty perverts. What is that he is grasping? I guess its not called a cockpit for nothing. Take a look at the pic ---> 3569

[Muninwing]

Flyer pilots are nasty perverts. What is that he is grasping? I guess its not called a cockpit for nothing. Take a look at the pic ---> 3569

reminds me of the youtube prank vid with the guy and his shake-weight.

maybe they've found a STC for shake-weights. that'd be an interesting development.

[Learn2Eel]

Don't know where else to post it; I just thought I would point out that the FAQ for the old Dark Angels codex is still there. I'm guessing the FAQ for the new codex will be released within two weeks or so, but I also predict FAQs for other codices will come out in that time. Just my gut feeling - after all, I'm pretty sure there are still a few things to be addressed for Chaos Space Marines (i.e. Abaddon joining marked units).