Get your frustration out here folks!

[Lord of the Dead]

I have read through about 200 post today out of pure boredom! 90% of comments left are negative and discouraging. GW releases a new codex and they throw a fit, a new model that looks good but they bash it. Matt Ward! I feel sorry for that man, are you jealous that he has the job you want? there not bringing new codexs out fast enough but you turn around and complain about the one that was just released. I could keep going on but its useless. if you hate the game then pack it up find a new hobby, maybe one where you have less social interaction. granted I have only been playing for two years, but I like the game! sorry for the ramblings I look forward to all the complaining.

[Uncle Nutsy]

and you decided to complain about the complaining.

[Lord of the Dead]

you got it!

[Uncle Nutsy]

at least you're honest about it. :D

on a related note, we need a 'thumbs up' smiley, for stuff like this.

[Aspire to Glory]

I feel the same. I can't imagine why people are so negative about something that they supposedly enjoy. If 40k's flaws are so irredeemable, then why play?

[Lunar Camel]

I agree with Lord of the Dead. I see so many posts and hear of people bashing everything new that comes out. But yet, I never see anybody who says, "I quit!" and move on to another system. Usually, I see them playing the very thing they are complaining about.

I'm in this hobby because I enjoy building and painting miniatures. I enjoy getting together with other people and playing a game. None of it is going to change my life. I do it for fun. I could care less what the new rules and miniatures make the game "broken". I believe thats a myth.

[Learn2Eel]

For comedy, I direct everyone to 1d4chan's (I won't post the link) page on Matt Ward. So much rage!

I'm not really frustrated by anything to be honest. I get angry for five seconds (or five minutes) and that is it. Though I am a bit annoyed how everyone was complaining about how Ward writing the codex would lead to an OP Dark Angels army, yet when it is announced that Vetock is writing it the very same people couldn't care less if it was OP. To be precise, a Dark Angels fan I talk to occasionally complained incessantly about how he couldn't stand Ward writing the codex and how he wouldn't play them if they were OP, yet now he is like "oh yeah we can get a really strong codex and laugh at those Grey Knights!" essentially. Yeah.

[Lexington]

I, too, feel bad for Mat Ward. It must be awful to have so many halfwitted, babbling trolls constantly cursing you 'round the internets because they think your work is a steaming pile of offal.

...must be even worse that they're right. :D

[ElectricPaladin]

For all that I occasionally post negatively...

I basically agree with this sentiment.

I mean, look, the game isn't perfect. The hobby isn't perfect. We aren't perfect. Sometimes, though, I feel like every little thing is greeted by immediate negativity. New codex contains some neat new tricks? OMG it's OP! New codex is actually kind of balanced, just an updated version of the new codex? OMG we were nerfed!

Let's try to give things a chance before we freak out, ok?

[Learn2Eel]

I, too, feel bad for Mat Ward. It must be awful to have so many halfwitted, babbling trolls constantly cursing you 'round the internets because they think your work is a steaming pile of offal.

...must be even worse that they're right. :D

C+

[jifel]

Pessimists like to voice their opinions. Fact of life I'm afraid. I like the Chaos Space Marine Codex, and the Dark Angels look promising. This is the happiest I've been with 40k since I started playing in 4th edition. Really, like what GWs doing, my only request is that Black Library starts releasing their new HH books in softcover! I'm impatient...

[Houghten]

I'm mostly annoyed that I didn't know about Reaper Bones until it was over.

Though the pimple on the nose of the Land Speeder Vengeance is worthy of a little hate.

[ElectricPaladin]

Here's a bit of positivity: I just bought three "needs work" Eldar war walkers on eBay for 27$! Woo! The only thing I want more than war walkers is a wraithlord and some wraithguard... and I'm plenty happy to have war walkers.

Context: I actually quite like fixing up somewhat beaten down models.

Pew pew pew!

[fuzzbuket]

C+
D-

[eldargal]

I do find the relentless negativity on some forums extremely irritating. If you don't enjoy the game and don't approve of what GW are doing then why the hell do you roture yourself and everyone else by whining about it incessantly? The fuss over every new release in particular is ridiculous.

The Six Stages of a GW Release.
1) Disbelief ("That's what GW are giving us?!)
2) Disgust ("Everything is terribad and fail!")
3) Blame ("GW Sucks! Ward Sucks! Lazy sculptors are lazy and derivamitive and junk!")
4) Indifference ("Whatever, I'm going to sell my army on eBay and spend the money on wh*res or Warmachine. Probably Warmachine 'cos girls are scary")
5) Acceptance ("Actually the new photos don't look so bad...")
6) Enthusiasm ("Everything is just brilliant! Can't wait 'til pre-orders go up")

Every. Single. *******. Release.

[Psychosplodge]

Girls aren't scary, but why waste it on wh*res? That's an expensive five minutes....:D

People have a lot invested in the hobby, so everytime something happens they don't like people will moan.
Personally, I don't like the overly ornate route that Space Marines are going, but as I can generally leave off the "extras" I'm happy enough...


I’ve got 99 problems and being a decaying organism that’s born to die in a society run by money that i can’t escape is one of them.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Psycho, I don't even.... What?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'm not really that into 40k these days anymore, so it sort of feels like I'm on the outside looking in - so it does mystify me as to why people continue playing if they really don't like it so much. There is a massive variety of wargames out there nowadays, the past 3 or so years has seen such a huge surge in new games I'm surprised why anyone would stick with GW if they hate everything about it? not judging - but really dont' get :)

[Psychosplodge]

Psycho, I don't even.... What?

?

[Wolfshade]

People are resistant to change hence the joke

"How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb?"

"57, 1 to change it and 56 to say how much they prefered it before"

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

How can you say that you don't like ornate things?

Space Marines are the only ones that you can trust with relics, they won't die in two seconds.

[Psychosplodge]

All the oversized baroquery? It detracts from the clean lines of power armour...but like I said I can generally leave it off...

[alshrive]

while i agree with EG in principal that this is the series of events with every release i cannot see it happening with Belial- he looks uncomfortable. like he has been rectally impaled upon a ceremonial stave and his flailing is arms in discomfort. everything else however is quite pretty.

[Wolfshade]

I agree, I think the weakest model in the range is Belial, the triptych does not work for me

[alshrive]

his proportions just don't look Terminator in my eyes...

[pauljc]

Partly, I think the internet has bred such a massive 'sense of entitlement' in the current generation. Everything is so easily and immediately available, for cheap, that 'people' seem to think *****ing about the cost of things and then buying of eBay is the normal way to go.

I could go on a huge rant about this, about the lack of regard to the worth of objects. About how 'people' seem to think that if it's so cheap and easily available on the internet, then surely the originating company MUST be ripping us off. And that, somehow, because of this, they OWE us, the customer. WE are the ones who keep them alive. How dare they charge the price they want for items they created?!

But I won't. Suffice to say, I keep things real simply, just as I was brought up to:

Sh*t costs money. The company charges what they like. If I don't like that, I go somewhere else. They'll figure it out eventually.

[olberon]

after reading only the first page to be honest, i came to the conclusion that as long as we complain about the hobby there is still room for improvement.

The matt ward pestering as i like to call it is started by a select few -supposedly warhammer guru's of some kind- and posted a remark on the interwebz. now all the 10 year olds -and a lot of elders- follow them like a blind sheep. I dont feel sorry for matt in fact i think hes doing a pretty decent job with such a naggy fanbase. i, however, feel sorry for the so called blindsheep

[Mr Mystery]

My favourite thing that winds me up? Therefore I suppose making it my least faovurite thing?

People criticising GW's business decisions.

Why?

Well, I don't know about you, but I am a confirmed internet scrote. I don't know half as much as a I think I do, and absolutely none of that knowledge I do actually have has anything even remotely to do with running a multinational company....

So why do others think they know best? Particularly when they often display their knowledge to be less than my own (sweeping statements, baseless assertions and so on). which let's face it is pretty good going. Exactly which market leading multinational is that they captain?? Or is it more 'You don't wanna do it like that, you wanna do it like this cheerio bye ta-ta'??

Other one? ZOMFG!!!! GW SHOULD DO THIS NOT THAT! Then.....two months later....OOMFG! GW HAVE DONE THAT! THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS!. Yes, Scrotey McScrote. I do notice just how much you move the goalposts to try and give yourself an air of smug superiority.... and it's not working. I'd recommend going out, getting a job, and your own flat. Soon as you do that, I guaranfrickingtee you will suddenly have much, MUCH bigger things to worry about than what some company is doing.....

[Denzark]

MM - very droll. The complainers about the business model are indeed vexing. I will regularly challenge people to tell me which bluechip FTSE-index company they are CEO of for comparison. I will then get told I don't ned to do x-sport to know y-player is crap.

Correct, I'm sure. Also correct that those people who pipe up saying 'I graudated from the buckshee school of business with a third in macroeconomcs of fish-eating cultures' or 'I have a (mail order) diploma from the Univeristy polytechnic of pissssington , Arkansas.' Yes you are probably more qualified than me.

However GW has bulled through a profit warning (warning not mass losses, merely a warning) to the steady figures they have now - mid recession. I would say, evne though I find the marketing department vexing with all the secrecy bollox, that their business nous must be pretty reasonable.

And I still buy the plastic crack as do millions of others, so go figure....

[Psychosplodge]

I can see your argument when it comes to business model, however what worries me is that they are behaving in a manner a customer of a firm I worked for did(cost us a massive contract and 50% the staff their jobs), massively slash costs to inflate profits short term and look more profitable, it's mostly evident in firms that are looking to sell or have large private equity firms as major shareholders.

It worries me on the basis of I like the hobby, I don't want to lose the universe because of decisions made to please shareholders rather than in the longterm interest of the company. but yeah I'm just looking at similar stuff I've seen before but I don't run a business.

[Wildcard]

Only thing i ever whine about codexes is my own Codex: Grey Knights. Unfluffy and written in a way that you get turned down on a game. With so little options you are bound for some spam. Also, 1/3rd of those option being completely useless and 1/3rd being great, but situational at best. (Or have you ever seen anyone take a full GKT list without psybolts and armed only with psilencers unless they were trying to prove a point)

It has great units (got 3 nemesis dread knight - love the model, like the rules for example), but for me the story and fluffy likeness means alot. models rules needs to reflect fluff and fluff needs to reflect models capabilities. (after the glorified we-kick-*** -type of thing is removed that is usually seen in the novels. Cos i wouldn't like to see guardsmen squad beating the hell out of chaos space marine squad in close combat :) )

For 6th edition i got few complaints. All of them are what i would have liked from "Leaked playtest rules for 6th".
- Tanks having the ability to fire with all their guns at different targets at all times
- unit type: Heavy would have been super heavy with one hull point
- One or two others that i fail just now to remember

[Deadlift]

The thing I find with most GW update / new codex releases is there is usually something I don't like. But that's cool because there is always something I do. I can't think of a single release where I haven't like something from the release. Don't like it, don't buy it. By all means feel free to discuss why you don't like something too, why not. The forums would be a bit boring if we all agreed on everything. But here's the catch. Be constructive, have a point that does not resort to blah blah blah it's ugly poop blah blah. Debates great but so many fail to do it without resorting to "I hate it, it's crap"

The new DA release as an example, I really like most of the models. I don't like Belial, he looks like he needs a walking stick instead of a sword to me, the speeder I did like, but it looks too busy for my tastes. Too much gothic IMO thoughout the release maybe ?
But those DW and the rest of the RW release look lovely to me.

So sure keep the debate going, just don't resort to "name calling" it sometimes gets immature and pointless.

[Wolfshade]

Yes, there was a point where it seemed for a couple of weeks there were people making sweeping statements baseless accusations to which I responded with figures from the accounts proving them wrong..

[Lexington]

The Six Stages of a GW Release.

[...]

Every. Single. *******. Release.
Eh. Posts of the categories here can be found...at every stage of every release. Everywhere. They're not even necessarily prevalent by chronology. The Chaos Space Marine release is considered pretty lackluster, even well after the fact. People by and large loathe the Derpspeeder, even though we've got clear final photos. The Dark Eldar release was overwhelmingly beloved from the first leaked photos to the final release and beyond. Etc.

Meta-analysis of release reactions doesn't really seem to realistically describe anything besides the poster's attitude to the rest of the community.

[Mr Mystery]

By and large? According to whom? I'm seeing more positive opinions than negative or neutral?

[Lexington]

Based on a casual look through reactions on the bigger forums. The Warseers, B&C, Heresy, etc. Worst-received GW model in a while, from my observations.

[Thefallen]

I started playing in '89 the RT era. when 2nd ed came out and the game went from cool to awesome. Man I miss my vortex grenades.:( Then came the ”age of strife”(3rd ed). hell it was so bad, that they had to try and salvage it with the 3.5 revision. And the game went from one of the coolest games ever to suck a** nearly over night. It seemed to me that back in the 80s&90 GW cared more about what the customer wanted than solely about the $$$. they wanted to keep everyone happy AND make money. I just dont see that anymore.
case in point. Chaos Space Marines. while it is a much more balanced codex. it was a huge let down for Chaos fans. with so much potential it Just didn't deliver what everyone hope for. Traitor Legions. Why the f*** is half the book demons after they gave demons their own codex? if I wanted to play Demon's I would buy a demon codex and play that instead or take them as allies.
some more gripes with GW are....
1. Stupid things put into or left out of codices. In the name of ”game balance”. Example. Why are there no drop pods for chaos sm? hell they have a fleet of ships but no landing craft or fliers? Stupid hellchicken dont count. Or any focus on the traitor legions.
2. Overall game balance. Its broken and anyone who has been playing for a while knows this.
3. Ridiculous wait for codex updates.
4. Price gauging. I really dont care how the fanboys and girls try to defend this. Its a fact that every year GW porks us with 20-25% annual price increases. More players leave the game and less new players start.
5. Crapcast or failcast. It was supposed to be cheaper and better quality. It was cheaper for GW but they jacked up the price on us and quality is hit or miss.
I got more but thats it for now.
Over all I do still like the game. 6th is a big step in the right direction. im getting a few new dark angels I want and that will be the last GW gets from me for a long time.

[ElectricPaladin]

I started playing in '89 the RT era. 2nd ed came out and the game went from cool to awesome. Man I miss my vortex grenades.:( Then came the ”age of strife”(3rd ed) hell it was so bad that they had to try and salvage it with the 3.5 revision. And the game went from one of the coolest games ever to suck *** nearly over night. It seemed to me that back in the 80s&90 GW cared more about what the customer wanted than solely about the $$$. they wanted to keep everyone happy AND make money. I just dont see that anymore.
case in point Chaos Space Marines. while it is a much more balanced codex. it was a huge let down for Chaos fans. with so much potential it Just didn't deliver what everyone hope for. Traitor Legions. Why the f*** is half the book demons after they gave demons their own codex? if I wanted to play Demon's I would buy a demon codex and play that instead or take them as allies.
some more gripes with GW are....
1. Stupid things put into or left out of codices. In the name of ”game balance”. Example. Why are there no drop pods for chaos sm? hell they have a fleet of ships but no landing craft or fliers? Stupid hellchicken dont count. Or any focus on the traitor legions.
2. Overall game balance. Its broken and anyone who has been playing for a while knows this.
3. Ridiculous wait for codex updates.
4. Price gauging. I really dont care how the fanboys and girls try to defend this. Its a fact that every year GW porks us with 20-25% annual price increases. More players leave the game and less new players start.
5. Crapcast or failcast. It was supposed to be cheaper and better quality. It was cheaper for GW but they jacked up the price on us and quality is hit or miss.
I got more but thats it for now.
Over all I do still like the game 6th is a big step in the right direction. But the few new dark a,ngels I want and that will ne the last GW gets from me for a long time.

With all due respect...

What I think you're missing is that all that may be true, but there comes a point where you have to either play the game or walk. I think what the OP is saying - and a lot of us are agreeing with - is that we're sick of the constant negativity. If you don't like the game, then stop playing it. If you really want to change things, complaining on a web forum isn't going to do anything. Vote with your wallet. Sell of your army and go play something else. That's the only way GW is going to get a message.

Otherwise, you're just kind of spitting into the wind. Which is totally your right.

But, it's also worth reflecting, as a community, on the consequences of that negativity. Is it really fun to be so negative? Should we consider looking for the positive and avoiding knee-jerk negativity? It's one thing to say "gee, it's really a shame that the Tau haven't been updated in a long time - it really sucks for Tau players." It's something else to launch into a laundry list of all GW's various misdeeds every time they make a misstep, or do something stupid.

[Mrchilidog]

This thread should have never been started. All it is doing is encouraging more negative opinions (which are abundant in every thread on BOLS anymore). I would like to think that most of us are here to enjoy the hobby, socialize and share ideas with other people that enjoy it. If people really are that unhappy, start a new board and move over to Bell of Lost Trolls.

[Thefallen]

Wow I make a post as the tread suggests and people start crying about its negativity. Really? Maybe I did misinterpret the intent of the thread. I thought this was the complaint dept. I guess its the complain about the complainers thread.

[Lord of the Dead]

I never meant for negativity! I was simply trying too point out that the die hard fans are in it for the long run with an objective opinion when things seem a bit out of place. then their are the others and we all know who they are.

I started this post because I think its funny how most people will keep buying things just to complain about it later.

I enjoy playing the game WIN or LOSE! its something I enjoy from all aspects, building, painting, showing off my goofy conversions, most of all meeting new players that have the same fun I do.

there are valid points to all arguments, and I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Lord of the Dead]

thefallen this thread is just for that! complain complain complain. if they don't like it then they don't need to read it.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Girls aren't scary, but why waste it on wh*res? That's an expensive five minutes....:D


just came back to this thread from work/vid watching/forum hopping... and that made me laugh. Although if I were to spend my money on a pleasure girl, she'd be busy for at least 45 minutes. not trying to brag or anything.... ;)

[eldargal]

Based on a casual look through reactions on the bigger forums. The Warseers, B&C, Heresy, etc. Worst-received GW model in a while, from my observations.

Based on my less-casual (I've read every page of the DA thread on Warseer, for example) it goes as I said. A lot of people hated it (not as big a majority as people think, the whining drowned out a lot of positive posts) then when the better pictures were leaked we saw more and more people deciding it wasn't too bad and when it appeared on the GW website even more people started saying they liked it didn't like minor things about it, such as the gunner.

I will grant that the enthusiasm over the Chaos release was somewhat muted but even so the general pattern was there. Much whining initially but then as things progressed and more, better photos were released the whining subsided. Things like the Heldrake and Forgefiend were absolutely hated at the start and by the time the kits were released opinion as generally positive.

[Psychosplodge]

Wow I make a post as the tread suggests and people start crying about its negativity. Really? Maybe I did misinterpret the intent of the thread. I thought this was the complaint dept. I guess its the complain about the complainers thread.

We have got one of those, it's probably on about third page in the oubliette.


just came back to this thread from work/vid watching/forum hopping... and that made me laugh. Although if I were to spend my money on a pleasure girl, she'd be busy for at least 45 minutes. not trying to brag or anything.... ;)

:p We're not all teenagers anymore...

[Uncle Nutsy]

no, we are not ;)

[Pendragon38]

no, we are not ;)
(Ha...this is true.) Only thing I'm p!$$ed that GW wrote the squats off and then brought them back. That and they rewrote some of the better fluff right out of existence.
Thats all I can complain about.

Perry

[Sainhann]

I have read through about 200 post today out of pure boredom! 90% of comments left are negative and discouraging. GW releases a new codex and they throw a fit, a new model that looks good but they bash it. Matt Ward! I feel sorry for that man, are you jealous that he has the job you want? there not bringing new codexs out fast enough but you turn around and complain about the one that was just released. I could keep going on but its useless. if you hate the game then pack it up find a new hobby, maybe one where you have less social interaction. granted I have only been playing for two years, but I like the game! sorry for the ramblings I look forward to all the complaining.

Well, when that new Codex will cost around $55 unless you get the LIMITED EDITION version which would cost around $100 and will only contain things that have been written before with very little actual new stuff.

Yes I think that GW should get drag over red-hot coals.

They take away to long to get new Codexes out and each new one becomes the new Flavor of the Month because they want their fanboys to buy the new miniatures that are coming out.

Well I already have a Dark Angels army and a Guardians of the Covenant army so do not need any of their new models.

Plus I am not going to spend $55 dollars for a book that will be replaced in 5-6 years for even more money.

[The Sovereign]

GW white knights are just as bad as complainers. I'll have a balanced opinion, thank you. Some things GW does are amazing, and I'll praise them to no end for it. Some things GW does are jackass-inine, and I'll ridicule them to no end for it. That's true objectivity.

[Sainhann]

I started playing in '89 the RT era. when 2nd ed came out and the game went from cool to awesome. Man I miss my vortex grenades. Then came the ”age of strife”(3rd ed). hell it was so bad, that they had to try and salvage it with the 3.5 revision. And the game went from one of the coolest games ever to suck a** nearly over night. It seemed to me that back in the 80s&90 GW cared more about what the customer wanted than solely about the $$$. they wanted to keep everyone happy AND make money. I just dont see that anymore.
case in point. Chaos Space Marines. while it is a much more balanced codex. it was a huge let down for Chaos fans. with so much potential it Just didn't deliver what everyone hope for. Traitor Legions. Why the f*** is half the book demons after they gave demons their own codex? if I wanted to play Demon's I would buy a demon codex and play that instead or take them as allies.
some more gripes with GW are....
1. Stupid things put into or left out of codices. In the name of ”game balance”. Example. Why are there no drop pods for chaos sm? hell they have a fleet of ships but no landing craft or fliers? Stupid hellchicken dont count. Or any focus on the traitor legions.
2. Overall game balance. Its broken and anyone who has been playing for a while knows this.
3. Ridiculous wait for codex updates.
4. Price gauging. I really dont care how the fanboys and girls try to defend this. Its a fact that every year GW porks us with 20-25% annual price increases. More players leave the game and less new players start.
5. Crapcast or failcast. It was supposed to be cheaper and better quality. It was cheaper for GW but they jacked up the price on us and quality is hit or miss.
I got more but thats it for now.
Over all I do still like the game. 6th is a big step in the right direction. im getting a few new dark angels I want and that will be the last GW gets from me for a long time.


With all due respect...

What I think you're missing is that all that may be true, but there comes a point where you have to either play the game or walk. I think what the OP is saying - and a lot of us are agreeing with - is that we're sick of the constant negativity. If you don't like the game, then stop playing it. If you really want to change things, complaining on a web forum isn't going to do anything. Vote with your wallet. Sell of your army and go play something else. That's the only way GW is going to get a message.

Otherwise, you're just kind of spitting into the wind. Which is totally your right.

But, it's also worth reflecting, as a community, on the consequences of that negativity. Is it really fun to be so negative? Should we consider looking for the positive and avoiding knee-jerk negativity? It's one thing to say "gee, it's really a shame that the Tau haven't been updated in a long time - it really sucks for Tau players." It's something else to launch into a laundry list of all GW's various misdeeds every time they make a misstep, or do something stupid.

Yes, many of us have decided to vote with our wallets.

But that doesn't mean we can't hate GW for doing what they have to games that we liked to play.

2nd & 3rd Editions had their issues but the armies were far more balance back then. Today every new army usually becomes the new power army, because GW needs to new those new mini's and if the latest are not powerful they will have to increase their costs by more than the standard 10%-20%.

Come on the new Dark Angels Terminators are $60 for just five and if they are not Finecast Resin but plastic that is $12 per plastic figure. That is way over price for a plastic miniature.

Then there is the ultra slow release of Codexes and each time a new one come out it costs more. The Dark Angels costs $55 with tax and for me, a Dark Angels player, that is more than what I am willing to pay.

GW track record on pissing off their customers is very long.

So they deserve every single negative comment.

Because some of are not GW Fanboyz.