Is Metal BACK?

[Mystery.Shadow]

January 2013 White Dwarf. Page 31. At the top, ALSO AVAILABLE:

Is this true or a typo?

[TheBitzBarn]

Yes they have not been converted to resin

[Houghten]

It's not so much back as they haven't got rid of enough of the existing stockpiles of Azrael / Ezekiel to make it worth shifting to Finecast yet.

[Mr Mystery]

I'd say Houghton has the right of it.

[Psychosplodge]

They don't need to though as they can always melt them back down...Suggests more a F/C quality issue with the resin version to me.

[OrksOrksOrks]

They don't need to though as they can always melt them back down...Suggests more a F/C quality issue with the resin version to me.

Melting down costs money, and as they're trying to limit their metal prroducts, they don't have a lot of use for the metal anyway, its cheaper to sell of existing metal models, finecast has been fine for at least 6 months now, the complaints have died away, they've got the quality under control

[Psychosplodge]

It costs no more than melting to cast any of the still metal models, it may even be cheaper as rather than melting an entire ingot they're working with smaller "lumps" of metal that should melt quicker as a result. Also just sitting on it saves them money as they don't have to buy more in for remaining metal models...and if they ever sell it back to market the price is generally increasing as well.

Maybe it has, or maybe people are used to it?> who knows?

[OrksOrksOrks]

It costs no more than melting to cast any of the still metal models, it may even be cheaper as rather than melting an entire ingot they're working with smaller "lumps" of metal that should melt quicker as a result. Also just sitting on it saves them money as they don't have to buy more in for remaining metal models...and if they ever sell it back to market the price is generally increasing as well.

Maybe it has, or maybe people are used to it?> who knows?

It still costs money though, you have to pay someone to melt it down. Finecast is great now, they messed it up at first, but now they have it under control its lovely, I just got a box of Ork Kommandos and Snikrot, they're flawless, literally not a thing wrong with them at all, its better than metal, cheaper than metal, why would they go back on it?

[Psychosplodge]

Better is a matter of opinion, but if they're using the existing moulds still, and still shipping metal models for those characters, to me that suggests a F/C failure rate unacceptably high.

They'll have the facilities on site still for their metal casting process that already exists, that cost is literally negligible in the grand scheme of things while ever they're still producing any metal models.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Better is a matter of opinion, but if they're using the existing moulds still, and still shipping metal models for those characters, to me that suggests a F/C failure rate unacceptably high.

They'll have the facilities on site still for their metal casting process that already exists, that cost is literally negligible in the grand scheme of things while ever they're still producing any metal models.

In what way does it suggest this? There are still a lot of metal models that they haven't made finecast molds for yet, it could be indicative of them making new models for these guys so not bothering to change them over for all you know.

You're just joining in with the now pointless finecast hate, stop being so negative.

[Psychosplodge]

In the way that they've launched the new DA, the flagship loyalist release for this edition, and they aren't using the new material, it seems a reasonable conclusion. Beyond offering that F/C better than metal is a matter of opinion I've not commented on the relative merits of each material, merely drawn conclusions based on evidence as I perceive it...

[Mr Mystery]

If you've got a large backstock of metal models, why pay for a new mould and to melt down the stock, when you can just wait for your stock to sell through?

If metal was making a comeback, why release any new models in Finecast as well?

[Psychosplodge]

That makes some sense, but why release your flagship product in a now (apparently) inferior defunct material?

[Mr Mystery]

What flagship product?

Azrael and Ezekeil? Most long term DA players will have them already, so not exactly flagship in my opinion?

Really not following you here chap.

[Psychosplodge]

This is the big loyalist release, for 6th edition, that makes it pretty flagship wouldn't you think?

Yeah most of the vets will have them, but all the new blood are going to be looking at starting DA, and GW are selling some of them still in the material they say isn't as good as F/C? Somewhat shortsighted?

[RGilbert26]

Or it could just be the fact that they have a set budget for each release and so have to prioritise what gets made.

I don't understand your issue and problem with this as i get it 100%.

[Psychosplodge]

I was saying they surely wouldn't just be running stock down when it's an easily reusable material?

[ElectricPaladin]

Frankly, I'm not hoping for a return to metal. Metal is a pain in the butt to work with, compared to a good plastic or plastic-resin hybrid. I once spent about three days of hobby time sawing through a metal ravagore's legs. NOT FUN. A similar conversion would have taken my an hour or two in plastic.

Finecast has its own problems, but the only good thing about metal is how satisfyingly heavy the models are. Beyond that, it's an outdated technology that we should leave behind.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Its currently an unessecary expense, its cheaper to run the stock down before creating a finecast mould, its pretty simple, the fact that since Finecast, we've not had a single new release in metal shows its time is over, and good riddance.

[red/winter]

I'm sure they won't be going back to producing new models in metal. However there may be something to the finecast issue theory, at least with the Azrael model in particular. I ordered one a couple weeks before christmas alongside a Finecast runepriest, both with the intention of painting them up and giving to friends as christmas gifts. Lo and behold when the box came I only received the Runepriest with no Azrael to be found, along with a 0 dollar charge on the invoice for azrael with no explanation as to why they didn't ship him. Still haven't gotten anything for the dark angel player. Maybe he can pick something out from the new batch.

[Maelstorm]

finecast has been fine for at least 6 months now, the complaints have died away, they've got the quality under control

The last batch of Finecast I ordered had to have every single one replaced. All of them for air bubbles! Space Marine Masters of the Chapter and multiple Necron Lords, Overlords and a Flayed One pack... GW does plastic better than anyone. Finecast is still a mess that we are learning to accept.

[Wildeybeast]

If you've got a large backstock of metal models, why pay for a new mould and to melt down the stock, when you can just wait for your stock to sell through?

If metal was making a comeback, why release any new models in Finecast as well?

I thought one of the advantages of FC was they could use all the existing metal moulds? I was under the impression that was why they developed FC rather than just use the FW resin as that wasn't suitable to use in the metal moulds/casting process.

[Tommie Soule]

Now i like metal minis but i also like finecast minis....
but which is better?

There is only one way to find out!

[Mr Mystery]

I thought one of the advantages of FC was they could use all the existing metal moulds? I was under the impression that was why they developed FC rather than just use the FW resin as that wasn't suitable to use in the metal moulds/casting process.

No idea.

I'd imagine not though due to the frame for Finecast. Don't get that with metal, just injection ports.

[Wildeybeast]

An interesting point, though is it just the new sculpts which come with the frames? I don't recall any of my older purchases having the frames, just the bits like in metal blister. I may be mistaken in that though.

[Houghten]

No, the older models come with the frame as well.

According to the "Finecast, ta-da!" issue of White Dwarf, this is part of the metal casting process but with the metal models the frame is snipped off and melted back down, because a) it can be re-used and b) it's much cheaper to ship without all that extra weight. Whereas Finecast is so full of air it hardly weighs anything and it's cheaper to just ship it out than to take the time removing it...

[Wildeybeast]

Thanks Houghten. So I am correct in saying that they use the existing metal moulds in that case?

[pgarfunkle]

I'm not 100% but I think when Blood Angels were updated those characters which did not receive a redesign were not released in Finecast at the time. It took a while for Dante and Mephiston to be converted to Finecast