1500pts Thousand Sons - Input Appreciated

[Kawauso]

Sooo I think I'm finally done pulling my hair out trying to get together a Thousand Sons list that works and is fun.

I've managed to come up with a 1500 point 'core' to the army that I intend to collect first, which will allow me to add to the army with ~500-point 'expansions' to take it in a number of different directions for higher-point games and when I want to mix things up. The problem I was facing in trying to do this was coming up with an army 'core' that seemed solid and thematic, and flexible enough to allow me to expand upon the army later on without having to re-tool things too much.

So! Keeping in mind this is not intended for tournament play (but still ought to be a capable enough tool), I submit the following for your review, fellow forumites:

1500 points Thousand Sons Themed Army

HQS
Sorcerer in Power Armour;
ML2, Force Sword/Bolt Pistol, Mark of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption
125 pts

Sorcerer in Power Armour;
ML2, Force Sword/Bolt Pistol, Mark of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption
125 pts

TROOPS
Chaos Cultists x10;
Autoguns x8, Heavy Stubber, Champ. Shotgun
65 pts.

Chaos Cultists x10;
Autoguns x8, Heavy Stubber, Champ. Shotgun
65 pts.

Chaos Space Marines x8;
Meltagun x1, Champ. Combi-Melta
Rhino w/ Combi-Melta
179 pts.


Chaos Space Marines x8;
Meltagun x1, Champ. Combi-Melta
Rhino w/ Combi-Melta
179 pts.

Thousand Sons x9
Sorc. Force Sword
242 pts.

ELITES
N/A

FAST ATTACK
Hell Blade Fighter
130 pts.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Predator Annihilator;
Lascannon Sponsons
140 pts.

Chaos Land Raider;
Dirge Caster, Daemonic Possession
250 pts.

TOTAL:
1500 pts.
52 models
47 infantry
4 tanks
1 flyer



So here's the gist of how everything works:
The Sorcerers go with the regular Chaos Marine squads to create sort of counts-as Thousand Sons units. The reason I went with these over the real deal is to give the army some much-needed (I feel) flexibility when it comes to anti-armour potential. It also allows me to play with more psychic power shenanigans. I will admit I'm a little torn over these units as to whether I would be better off going with legitimate Thousand Sons (so expensive!), dropping a Sorcerer and filling out anti-armour potential elsewhere...much appreciation for any input!

The only other part of the list that I feel requires any explanation is the Land Raider and the Thousand Sons themselves. The Land Raider is a pillbox/delivery system for the 'true' 1k sons. It provides some needed anti-armour punch, a high-profile but also highly durable target that can draw some fire from my less durable vehicles, and a means of protecting the AP3 goodness inside until they need to storm out and cleanse/grab an objective.

There you have it - anyone have any input? I'd appreciate as much as possible as I'm hoping to get the core of my army nailed down in order to budget my project costs accordingly. :)

[Xenith]

Ok, some good ideas to start, but needs some work.

TS are shooty. They do not need a raider. A rhino will work fine for them, if at all. They need to be on the table T1 shooting, now that they can move 6" and shoot 24" reliably. Also, possession on the raider, with TS? Do you really want to be sacrificing TS to that thing? Id drop it for another predator, freeing 110pts. If you really want to keep it, tool up a CSM squad for combat and throw them in it. Add a ML3 biomancy sorceror or two.

I'd bump both sorcerers to ML3 also. Lvl 2 means you have to choose 1Tz power, meaning youll likely only have one that isnt extremely situational. bumping to ML 3 gets you two rolls on biomancy or telekinesis, which is excellent.

[Kawauso]

You make a good point about Possession; somehow I was completely overlooking the potential drawback. I guess it's probably not worth the added reliability since penetrating hits are going to happen relatively seldom on a Land Raider as opposed to other vehicles and even when it is shaken or stunned all of its gear is still twin-linked.

As for Thousand Sons being on foot...I suppose you do have a point.
I have a really hard time letting go of transports, though. Whenever I plop a squad on foot I always get that nagging voice in the back of my head telling me 'what if they need the mobility/protection?!'. For some reason I'm okay doing it with some armies like Necrons or (obviously) Tyranids or Guard, but when it comes to marines I'm always worried about my pricey squads being stranded somewhere and rendered ineffective. This is especially true for genuinely pricey units like Thousand Sons both in terms of their limited mobility and relative 'fragility' (just as vulnerable to weight of fire as regular marines).

As per the master level on the Sorcerers; you make another good point. 25 points per level is pretty pricey, though, so I'm cautious.

I guess if I were to drop the Land Raider that would permit me to max out the ML on both Sorcerers and get another Predator and still leave me 60 points to spare...

Were I to keep the LR, though, I have to say I disagree about putting a CC squad in it; I think it would be just as well-suited to a squad of Thousand Sons in that it can safely get them into double-tap range, quite possibly in a way so that their AP3 is not negated by any cover. They can then assault to mop up survivors as they're no worse and somewhat better in that regard than regular marines (and the advantage of double-tapping with AP3 bolters beforehand is considerable).

So dropping the LR for another pred/more mastery levels and miscellaneous stuff is something I'm willing to consider...
Anything else? If anyone else has anything to add, too, the more discussion the merrier!

[DrLove42]

The flier....is going to depend heavily on your local meta. Around here they nver survive coming onto the board. Intercepted before anything happens, cos AV10 and 2HP doesn't live.

Drop the Landie and max out your stuff as you said. Drop the flier, and you've got enough points for a dragon. And the dragon is scary, particularly with a flamer.

Personally i'm a big fan of Spawn and Maulerfiends, but Spawn need MoN (very unfluffy) and Maulelrfiend don't really fit....

[Xenith]

The 25pts/level is actually quite a steal, considering you get to use 5+ extra powers over the course of a game, and are pretty much guaranteed to deny the witch on a 4+.

[Kawauso]

The flier....is going to depend heavily on your local meta. Around here they nver survive coming onto the board. Intercepted before anything happens, cos AV10 and 2HP doesn't live.

Drop the Landie and max out your stuff as you said. Drop the flier, and you've got enough points for a dragon. And the dragon is scary, particularly with a flamer.

Personally i'm a big fan of Spawn and Maulerfiends, but Spawn need MoN (very unfluffy) and Maulelrfiend don't really fit....

Well unfortunately I don't really have a local meta at the moment...so it's hard to say how things would really go down.

I do have kind of a hard time seeing Interceptor being that big a problem - but then I haven't played all that much 6th edition yet, like I said.

Were I to get a Heldrake I don't think the flamer is a good choice, however, given that the purpose of fitting a flyer into the list is to hunt other flyers as I have no other sources of skyfire.
I have a really hard time liking the Heldrake, though, even though the rules are really solid. I just...have a really hard time seeing the model alongside the Thousand Sons in my army. Even though I'm toying with the idea of painting up FA choices (like flyers and Raptors) as Oracles of Change allied with my Thousand Sons, a lone Heldrake just seems...off. That could be because I was disappointed with how prevalent daemon engines are in the new Chaos Marine book compared with regular vehicles, though...

I dunno. I just can't settle on whether I like the kit or not, and I think that's reason enough for me to avoid it. I can't see myself staying interested in models I don't love, and things like the Hell Blade tickle my fancy much more than the Heldrake...even if they're flimsier and output less firepower.

That being said though I am kind of desperate for some AA firepower on a tight budget. Perhaps I'll have to fiddle with things and see what alternatives there are to both the Heldrake and Hell Blade (unfortunately very little, I know...).

[ElectricPaladin]

...but Spawn need MoN (very unfluffy) and Maulelrfiend don't really fit....

Is that really unfluffy? All the Chaos Gods mutate their followers, not just Tzeentch, and anyone overcome by mutations can transform into a spawn...

[Kawauso]

Is that really unfluffy? All the Chaos Gods mutate their followers, not just Tzeentch, and anyone overcome by mutations can transform into a spawn...

Mark of Nurgle models in a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch-themed army is pretty un-fluffy, I think, given those two gods hate each other (more than the usual inter-god animosity).

[ElectricPaladin]

Mark of Nurgle models in a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch-themed army is pretty un-fluffy, I think, given those two gods hate each other (more than the usual inter-god animosity).

Oh, yeah. I forgot that you were running a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch army. I thought DrLove was referring to that mark on spawn. My apologies.

[Kawauso]

No worries. :)

I do need to get my hands on some Spawn eventually, though - I think I'd like to field them sometime and at the least I need them for when some unfortunate individuals are turned into them. :) Good opportunity to experiment more with blending, too.

[DrLove42]

Well unfortunately I don't really have a local meta at the moment...so it's hard to say how things would really go down.

I do have kind of a hard time seeing Interceptor being that big a problem - but then I haven't played all that much 6th edition yet, like I said.

Were I to get a Heldrake I don't think the flamer is a good choice, however, given that the purpose of fitting a flyer into the list is to hunt other flyers as I have no other sources of skyfire.
I have a really hard time liking the Heldrake, though, even though the rules are really solid. I just...have a really hard time seeing the model alongside the Thousand Sons in my army. Even though I'm toying with the idea of painting up FA choices (like flyers and Raptors) as Oracles of Change allied with my Thousand Sons, a lone Heldrake just seems...off. That could be because I was disappointed with how prevalent daemon engines are in the new Chaos Marine book compared with regular vehicles, though...

I dunno. I just can't settle on whether I like the kit or not, and I think that's reason enough for me to avoid it. I can't see myself staying interested in models I don't love, and things like the Hell Blade tickle my fancy much more than the Heldrake...even if they're flimsier and output less firepower.

That being said though I am kind of desperate for some AA firepower on a tight budget. Perhaps I'll have to fiddle with things and see what alternatives there are to both the Heldrake and Hell Blade (unfortunately very little, I know...).

The big thing with a flamer is the range and its power. Come on max of 36", torrent a S6 Ap3 flamer 12"...thats the whole board, unless you're playing longways, something that can and will decimate anything short of terminator armour. Combine his piss poor BS and a template is generally better.

First time you come on and burn an entire long fang unit to death before they can do anything will convince you on it.

Alternative fliers....you are limited to Hell Talon (its bigger brother) or a very unfluffy blight drone. Alternativly you be very patient, because apparantly after the current FW book (Necrons) its going to be Tzeentch Marines and Deamons

[Xenith]

Mark of Nurgle models in a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch-themed army is pretty un-fluffy, I think, given those two gods hate each other (more than the usual inter-god animosity).

Perfectly fluffy for Tzeentch to turn a follower of Nurgle into a spawn, only to then be enslaved by one of his own followers.

[Kawauso]

The big thing with a flamer is the range and its power. Come on max of 36", torrent a S6 Ap3 flamer 12"...thats the whole board, unless you're playing longways, something that can and will decimate anything short of terminator armour. Combine his piss poor BS and a template is generally better.

First time you come on and burn an entire long fang unit to death before they can do anything will convince you on it.

Alternative fliers....you are limited to Hell Talon (its bigger brother) or a very unfluffy blight drone. Alternativly you be very patient, because apparantly after the current FW book (Necrons) its going to be Tzeentch Marines and Deamons

I understand that.

And I'm not doubting the flamer's effectiveness; what I'm saying is that anti-infantry firepower isn't really something I feel this army needs out of a flyer. Anti-air firepower is, however.

I know it's frail for its cost, particularly in comparison to alternatives out there, but the Hell Blade/Hell Talon are the only Chaos flyers at the moment that really 'speak' to me at all...and between the two the Hell Blade is more appealing, especially from a financial perspective.


Perfectly fluffy for Tzeentch to turn a follower of Nurgle into a spawn, only to then be enslaved by one of his own followers.

Eh - that's a pretty good explanation, and I wouldn't begrudge someone using that for their own army. Doesn't sit well enough for me with my own, though.
I'm very particular, I know.



Any way, I think I've come to the decision that I'm going to drop the Land Raider from my 1500-point list, but assemble the kit for my Thousand Sons anyway and keep it for bigger games.
As a result I'm now tinkering with a list that looks something like this:

HQS
Sorcerer; Bolt Pistol/Force Sword, Mastery Level 3, Mark of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption
150 pts.

TROOPS
Chaos Cultists x10; 8x Autoguns, 1x Heavy Stubber, Champ. Shotgun
65 pts.

Chaos Cultists x10; 8x Autoguns, 1x Heavy Stubber, Champ. Shotgun
65 pts.

Chaos Marines x8; 1x Meltagun, Champ. Combi-Melta
Chaos Rhino
169 pts.

Thousand Sons x9
242 pts.

Thousand Sons x9
242 pts.

ELITES
N/A

FAST ATTACK
N/A

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Predator Annihilator; TL-Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
140 pts.

Havocs x9; 4x Autocannons
167 pts.

Havocs x9; 4x Missile Launchers w/ Flakk Missiles, Champ. Combi-Boltgun
230 pts.

TOTALS
1470 pts.
67 Models
65 Infantry
2 Tanks

There are ~30 points left to play around with and I'm not certain where to spend them.
My biggest concern with this list is that there are only really 2 targets for the opponent's anti-armour firepower, and one of them is a Rhino...
I have to say that I like the feel of this list so far, but it would be kind of nice to fit in some more armour, perhaps.

Thoughts?

[Kawauso]

Alright, I think I've settled on a build (again).

Here goes...

HQ
Sorcerer; Bolt Pistol/Force Sword, Mastery Level 3, Mark of Tzeentch, Sigil of Corruption (assigned to regular CSM squad)
150 pts.

TROOPS
Chaos Cultists x10; 8x Autoguns, 1x Heavy Stubber, Champ. Shotgun
65 pts.

Chaos Cultists x10; 8x Autoguns, 1x Heavy Stubber, Champ. Shotgun
65 pts.

Chaos Marines x8; 1x Meltagun, Champ. Combi-Melta/Meltabombs
Chaos Rhino; Combi-Melta
184 pts.

Thousand Sons x9
242 pts.

Thousand Sons x9
Chaos Rhino; Combi-Melta
287 pts.

ELITES
N/A

FAST ATTACK
N/A

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Predator Annihilator; TL Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
140 pts.

Chaos Predator Annihilator; TL Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
140 pts.

Havocs x9; 4x Missile Launchers w/ Flakk
227 pts.

TOTALS
1500 pts.
60 models
56 infantry
4 tanks
5 scoring units

Feedback much appreciated!