Tyranid Rumours

[Learn2Eel]

I thought I may as well start up the rumour-mill thread, that way we can consolidate all the rumours in one spot and not have to search everywhere for info. Given the time-frame in which codices are redone, it doesn't come as a surprise that Tyranids may be coming up in the next year or so.

Via Naftka over on Faeit 212, there are some juicy Tyranid rumours popping up, with the mention of the potential codex author sure to raise some eye-brows. Take these rumours with a big grain of salt though.

http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/tyranids-synapse-changes-new-units-and.html


via the Faeit 212 inbox (no permission given to give a name)
Q4 2013 40k goes to Eldar supposedly, so will be early/late Q4 2013/Q1 2014. May be Q3 2013. Not entirely sure. There will be a codex release and there may be a WD/model release earlier. That would push the codex back though.

Kit released for harpy that will make a second FMC - current playtest name hydra. Harpy will remain anti-infantry, hydra to be anti flyer/vehicle.
Synapse will go back to giving eternal warrior - and instinctive behavior will be radically changed.
For other new kits - nothing major. Prime plastic kit, shrike upgrade pack, and lastly, a new MC that is built off of infiltrating and will have a snacking rule similar to the fantasy ghorgon.

next two Rumors should be taken with even more salt then normal - there will be multiple large plastic kit that is a multiple option kit that can make warriors/zoanthropes/lictors, one that can make venomthropes/raveners, and one that will make biovores/pyrovores and one for tyrant guard/hive guard. The finecast models are getting changed up a bit - will move to plastic. Also, some of these kits may be condensed into one box. Secondly - Ward is writing the dex. Extra salt here folks - extra salt.

Once again, keep in mind this is a long ways off and these are playtest rules.

Sounds very interesting. I think everyone agrees that a return to Synapse granting Eternal Warrior would be a more than welcome change, as it would help solve a lot of issues people have with taking units such as Tyranid Warriors and Harpies. Obviously, it would require some re-balancing though. Hopefully this proves to be the case and isn't just wish-listing.

The Harpy kit sounds great, though I seem to recall the rumoured mid-year flyer wave including a kit for Tyranids - possibly the Harpy. I think it would be great, especially with an anti-vehicle flying monstrous creature counterpart.
I wonder what the possible changes to Instinctive Behaviour would be.
Shrike upgrade packs! An infiltrating monstrous creature that eats people? Like some kind of giant lictor?

Matt Ward writing the codex......well at least we definitely wouldn't get an under-powered codex, and given his track-record, it should have good internal balance. That is the main thing though. The codex needs good internal balance - not units which are obviously better or worse than others (Tervigons, Pyrovores, Hive Guard, etc).

All with a grain of salt obviously, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe I picked a bad time to start them :cool: Haha.

[Ghoulio]

I honestly dont think Eternal Warrior with Synapse is really needed. What is actually needed is for units to be created properly with appropriate points costs. It isnt the loss of Eternal Warrior that makes me not want to use a Tyranid Warriors...its the fact that one with Bonesword, lashwhip and toxin sacs is FIFTY POINTS makes me not want to use them (plus their stats are garbage lol). I would MUCH rather have well written units with decent points costs then just blanket Eternal Warrior any day of the week.

Also, I would love to have Synapse be a fun an interesting rule instead of the generic garbage it is now. I really loved how in 4th ed your little gribblies would fall back to the closest Synapse Creature instead of your board edge. It was a super cool mechanic and made you want to take it and best of all it really made sense and fit the army.

I just hope when the DO redo the codex they actually get it right. The 5th ed Codex couldn't have been further from what, as a Tyranid player, I would have wanted. I makes me so mad that you ONLY see Tyrgons, Tervigons, Hive Guard, Termagants (only for Tervigons) and maybe Flyrants anymore. There are 32 units total in that book...only 5 get played, and only 2 of those existed before 2010. THAT is a mark of a horrendous codex. Also, everything moving to plastic would be AMAZING lol.

[Learn2Eel]

Oh I definitely agree, it really is a sign of bad codex writing when it is obvious to anyone that the internal balance is way off. Most of our stuff if over-costed, though Eternal Warrior would still be good. Nothing sucks more than having an awesome Tyranid Warrior brood wiped out by a single Battle Cannon. This is why I think Ward would be great for the codex - as much as people don't like him, he rarely gets his internal balance wrong. And I think after how bad the current codex has been received, plus the distinct lack of allies, we won't be getting another 'under-powered' codex. To be honest, the lack of Allies makes me think we may be getting some stuff to compensate - i.e. having an expanded Force Organization chart even below 2000 points.

That would be a good change, though I think Instinctive Behaviour is ok as it is - emphasis on 'ok' and not 'good'.

Yep, it really is kind of sad. Mind you though, Zoanthropes, the Doom of Malan'tai, Deathleaper, Gargoyles, Raveners, Dakkafexes, Biovores and Hormagaunts still see quite a bit of use, as does the Swarmlord.

I shouldn't have to feel bad if I field Lictors or Pyrovores, who both have pretty wicked models.

[Learn2Eel]

Just to add, an anonymous person in the comments section said that they can "guarantee" a Tyranid release of some kind this year, most likely a model wave (probably the Harpy) - maybe even a WD mini update ala Daemons.

For reference, the anonymous poster (the one that supplied the rumours in the article as well) continually implies they are a GW employee of some sort.

[wittdooley]

I wish they'd just lower the points cost on gaunts and make them the massive swarm army they should be.

[Learn2Eel]

I would make Termagants 4 points a model with BS4 and a free weapon upgrade (along the lines of a flamer template or small blast weapon perhaps?) for every 10 or so in a brood. Devourers though should still make them like 8 point models. Change the other guns to make them more viable.

As for Hormagaunts, make them 5 points a model and WS4. Make upgrades like Adrenal Glands and Toxins Sacs 1 point each, not 2 each. I would also give them some kind of grenades in their basic equipment, conditional upon...perhaps they have assault grenades that apply only if the unit they are charging has less models than they do ? I.e. the Hormagaunts overwhelm the defenders before they strike back?

And I don't think those would necessarily be bad changes. Horde armies need some loving.
An idea I've seen mentioned a few times is a Hormagaunt-spawning Tervigon. It would have to be an upgrade/more expensive though, as Hormagaunts would work much better than Termagants in that role.

[Kirsten]

not sure why it would give eternal warrior personally, if it is the hive mind driving them on regardless of wounds I would have thought feel no pain would be more logical. obviously you don't want that army wide either, merely saying it would be more believable as an effect. Like Ghoulio I would rather see some sort of alternative in place personally. Not used nids since I sold my army in fourth edition, always been tempted to start again though, just love those big plastic monster kits. was always a massive carnifex fan and just hant three of those lovely kits, only had the second edition screamer killers when I played them.

[Anakzar]

I don't think much of making them all eternal warriors either... I wish they would take a good look at the 2nd ed stat lines and think about changing alot of them back.

Hormagants used to be WS4 with BS0 they now have WS3 and BS3 lame on a model that has no ranged attack and in the fluff is supposed to be very powerful in CC. They also lost 1S and gained SV6+ and +1 I.

Genestealers used to have 4 attacks and S6.. now S4 and 2 Attacks... I would like to see them get at least 3 attacks and S5. All other armies can get an extra attack from having two CC weapons.

Carnifexes took the worst hits though... WS6 BS4 I6 (terminator armor) ect now WS3 BS3 I1 and SV3... I would like to see them at least have those starts comparable to a dreadnought. I1 is very sad...

Tyranids used to be combat masters... all of them even the more shooty ones. Zonathropes had Force weapon claws... for example.

Termagants were WS4 BS3...

Warriors Had better WS and BS and were T5 W2 instead of T4 W3... if they regained those stats no need for eternal warrior to make them more viable.

Some of the weapons were nerfed too harshly over the years Deathspitters were S6 and had 32 inch range (complicated rules hitting models within 2 inches).. range hurt the worst. Likely they did 3 shots for faster play but knocking them down to 18 inches was harsh.

I would like to see spike rifles be 24 inches even if they lost assault just for variety and another choice.

Most of the new models have decent stats but some of the problems carried over to them as well WS3 and I1 is sad sad for what was once one of the best CC armies out there.

[Learn2Eel]

I think the Eternal Warrior thing should be supplementary to actual balance changes - i.e. statlines, wargear, special rules, points costs, etc.
Right now, why would anyone take half the units in the codex for anything but fluff or modelling reasons?

With Hormagaunts, making them WS4 would be a big help, though I don't think they would get S4. To be honest though, Termagants have S4 guns, so why not?
I would also increase the range of Termagant Fleshborers to 18". As it is, sure the horde units are cheap but they aren't good for their cost.
I think they will buff Genestealers when they are re-done, after all, they did just take a massive nerf by not being able to charge from Outflanking. Your idea sounds good, but they would also need a considerable price drop and a return to 4+ armour. Maybe 9-11 points a model for WS6 BS0 S5 T4 W1 A3 I6 LD10 Sv +4 ? They could even give them a special rule stating that they specifically can charge from reserves.

I would do this with Carnifexes;
WS4 BS4 S8 T6 W4 A4 I4 LD8 +3 as their basic profile, and make them cheaper as well. Then give them a load of different ways to change their statline, ala biomorphs in earlier codices. As for special rules, they should have Furious Charge, Rage and that outnumbered rule (you gain D3 attacks if outnumbered, forget what it is called). Would make them a lot more viable.

Warriors should be S5 T5 base I feel, they are twice the size of a Space Marine and yet are no tougher? Sure they have more wounds, but they should be tougher and stronger.

I would also change the Pyrovore around severely so that it actually has a specific purpose. Drop the power weapon attacks, give it different kinds of 'flamer ammunition', give it better stats - make it tougher for one - and make it a lot cheaper. That way, it can be used as an effective and cheap infantry suppression unit - for example, it could have like a S5 AP4 template, a S4 AP3 template, a S3 AP2 template, etc. Perhaps also give them the Torrent special rule - their 'flamers' are gigantic after all. Make them more mobile. Maybe that would make them a bit OP in an infantry-centric edition but at least people would, you know, use them.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I know I would personally be happy either with eternal warrior, or just a proper use of the stat lines. I mean hell look at the poor hormagant, 6 points and an ork boy at the same cost could kick its butt without really trying that hard. I have always felt that while warriors are great, they really cost too much for what they do, if they had eternal warrior, or if they just had a better statline they would be much more worth it hands down.

I am hoping to god that ward doesn't write the codex though, I love my bugs and really don't wanna see him mess up the story, or just create stupid powerful combos. I like winning don't get me wrong, but I want it to be based on my skill and use of models, not just because I took the best combo.


I really hope a flier wave comes soon though, even though the harpy isn't impressive I still wanna paint one up. If past tyranid models with wings are any comparison, I have a feeling that the harpy is going to look frelling beautiful.

[Houghten]

Oh I definitely agree, it really is a sign of bad codex writing when it is obvious to anyone that the internal balance is way off. Most of our stuff if over-costed, though Eternal Warrior would still be good. Nothing sucks more than having an awesome Tyranid Warrior brood wiped out by a single Battle Cannon. This is why I think Ward would be great for the codex - as much as people don't like him, he rarely gets his internal balance wrong.

I dunno, when was the last time you saw someone use a psilencer, or equip an acolyte with a power weapon? And why do the costs of the grey knight special weapons vary from unit to unit in a manner that has nothing whatsoever to do with those units' roles? How about Honour Guard, or the ever-annoying "why are you a Fast Attack slot?" Land Speeder Storm?

[Learn2Eel]

And yet almost every Grey Knight unit sees use. Which is my point.
Also, see how few examples you picked up?

[Houghten]

I'm not going to sit here all day doing it. I just picked the worst examples. My point is that he's terrible at internally balancing unit options so you end up with clones from army to army.

Besides, the question inverts itself pretty easily. If these are the overcosted options, what are the undercosted options? Everything else. Since you're looking at internal balance, no meaning is lost this way.

[Learn2Eel]

And in most cases, each unit works fine and is balanced well against one another. I'm sorry, but I simply do not follow the school of thought that Ward codices are unbalanced, because they simply aren't overall. People just complain incessantly about them because the 'cheesy' combinations are more obvious than in other codices, though his horrible fluff-writing also plays a part in it.

Look at Necrons. Aside from Flayed Ones, pretty much every unit in that army can be put to good use and the controlling player won't feel bad about it. Sure there are some OP units that you can spam, but it is nowhere near as bad as a lot of other codices.
As for under-costing, put the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codices side-by-side and spot the difference.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm probably in a minority here, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the Tyranid codex. Like all of Cruddace armies, it requires careful army selection and the using units in careful coordination with each other but I don't see anything wrong with that. It just requires more...finesse to use than armies where all the units are balanced against each other and you just pick the stuff you like. I get the argument that there are certain units which are low down the list of selection compared to others in the army but personally I like the fact we have armies which don't all work in the same way. One change I would like to see is a return to arming all your warriors differently and then I can go back to fielding all mine as WYSISWYG rather than having to start each battle explaining what they are armed with and why they don't look like they should.

[Houghten]

I don't understand what you are trying to say. The codexes are not balanced overall, but they are not unbalanced? How can both of these be true?

As for Necrons... ugh. The book actually forces you to spam unit options in most units, when they get any options at all. Want a mixture of swords and scythes in your Lychguard? How about no!

[Learn2Eel]

I don't understand what you are trying to say. The codexes are not balanced overall, but they are not unbalanced? How can both of these be true?

As for Necrons... ugh. The book actually forces you to spam unit options in most units, when they get any options at all. Want a mixture of swords and scythes in your Lychguard? How about no!


And in most cases, each unit works fine and is balanced well against one another. I'm sorry, but I simply do not follow the school of thought that Ward codices are unbalanced, because they simply aren't overall. People just complain incessantly about them because the 'cheesy' combinations are more obvious than in other codices, though his horrible fluff-writing also plays a part in it.

Look at Necrons. Aside from Flayed Ones, pretty much every unit in that army can be put to good use and the controlling player won't feel bad about it. Sure there are some OP units that you can spam, but it is nowhere near as bad as a lot of other codices.
As for under-costing, put the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codices side-by-side and spot the difference.

I would have thought I made myself clear. I don't agree with people that say they are unbalanced, because they are not unbalanced in my opinion. Simple. Ward-hate just happens to be the new black. I'm not saying that your criticisms aren't justified, but I think too many people got caught up in the Grey Knight 5th edition fad (and now the Necrons in 6th edition) and forgot to check that Space Wolves and Imperial Guard had been pulling the same tricks well before that. In reality, for the most part, Grey Knights and Necrons are not OP. Certain choices in them are. But that applies to Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Eldar and the other codices too.

I am talking unit choices. Triarch Praetorians may not be as good as Lychguard, but they still have a use and you aren't so flustered by using them like you would if you were using Pyrovores, Lictors, Rippers or even the poor Carnifex. Most of the units are on a pretty even ground. In the Tyranid codex, most of them are way over-costed, and there are ones which stand head and shoulders above the rest - but the problem is that the codex is so obnoxious about it. Why is a Carnifex the same points cost as a Tervigon, the latter doing so much more for the army and not even really losing out on the damage front as much as one would think? Why would I take a Pyrovore instead of a Biovore for the same cost? Why would anyone in their right minds take a melee Carnifex when you can instead take a Trygon? Why are Gargoyles only a point more expensive per model than Termagants? What exactly is the point of Old One Eye costing as much as a Land Raider? Why can a Mawloc that has little cost difference next to a Trygon only get to use its defining attribute a maximum of three times in a standard game, an attack that is unreliable? Why the hell does a Tyrannofex cost so much more than a Tervigon? Why, what, why!?

@Wildey I get the idea that Cruddace was going for synergy with the Tyranid codex, and that is fine. But not when it is implemented so poorly. There is literally no reason to take certain units for anything but fluff/fun inspiration. A lot of the units are simply so much better than the others it is really quite laughable. The author himself apparently admitted to over-costing everything because he thought they would be "too powerful" without actually considering the adverse effects it would have on the actual use and implementation of the units. That may not be true though so I won't put stock in it.
I rarely complain about the codex, and to be frank, this is just me being honest. I am quite happy to try out all the different options and use them appropriately - most of them can be made to work, it is just very difficult. But I can understand why a lot of Tyranid players feel they have been short-changed.

[Houghten]

Aha, it makes more sense if I read "because they simply" correctly instead of as "simply because they"
>.>

[Learn2Eel]

Oh lol, haha. I get that a lot, my language and comprehension skills are pretty suck lol. My bad!

[Wildeybeast]

@Wildey I get the idea that Cruddace was going for synergy with the Tyranid codex, and that is fine. But not when it is implemented so poorly. There is literally no reason to take certain units for anything but fluff/fun inspiration. A lot of the units are simply so much better than the others it is really quite laughable. The author himself apparently admitted to over-costing everything because he thought they would be "too powerful" without actually considering the adverse effects it would have on the actual use and implementation of the units. That may not be true though so I won't put stock in it.
I rarely complain about the codex, and to be frank, this is just me being honest. I am quite happy to try out all the different options and use them appropriately - most of them can be made to work, it is just very difficult. But I can understand why a lot of Tyranid players feel they have been short-changed.

I get what you are saying. Synergy should be; 'If I take unit a, unit b would support it well or I could use the buff from unit c as well. Alternatively I could take unit d instead of unit a'. Cruddace has a number of unit d's but you just wouldn't pick them over unit a for any reason other than fluff. He did a better job with the Empire army book, but even that has some unit d's in. You would never take flagellants unless for fluff reasons. It's not that they are bad, it's just that for their points cost there are so many other things you would pick before them. Still, at least he is improving. I agree entirely that there shouldn't be things in a book that no player would ever pick.

[Learn2Eel]

I agree with everything in your post. Having read his later codices, they do seem to be getting better.

[eldargal]

Actually I've seen flagellants used mighty effectively, but yes there were a few misfired in the book, mortars in particular (hurhur misfire & mortars...). I would agree that Cruddace has been worst for internal balance so far, in my opinion Kelly is best. Not always but usually fairly consistently. Few useless units or choices in the Dark Eldar and Vampire Counts books, some that don't see competitive play simply because they are more about unpredictable fun rather than consistent results.

[Defenestratus]

If Tyranids come before Eldar, I cannot be held responsible for the rage that is unleashed.

[rpricew]

a new MC that is built off of infiltrating and will have a snacking rule similar to the fantasy ghorgon.

Sounds like the "Red Terror" to me!

[Learn2Eel]

Let us hope! They did bring Old One Eye back after all...

[eldargal]

If Tyranids come before Eldar, I cannot be held responsible for the rage that is unleashed.
I doubt it, this year is chock a block for rumoured releases already, even if eldar make it for November (which I sincerely hopefor) I can't see tyranids coming before them with Tau also on the agenda. Possibly some kind of Ork release too.

[rpricew]

I can absolutely, positively guarantee you there will be models for them in 2013; as well as a WD update for said models.

GW is trying to give love to at least a dozen armies per year (both systems included) from now on. Gone are the days of "2 armies per system, and those are the only ones who get anything."

There's a reason I choose to remain Anon on here. Just saying...

from the comments over at Faeit 212

[Wildeybeast]

Actually I've seen flagellants used mighty effectively, but yes there were a few misfired in the book, mortars in particular (hurhur misfire & mortars...). I would agree that Cruddace has been worst for internal balance so far, in my opinion Kelly is best. Not always but usually fairly consistently. Few useless units or choices in the Dark Eldar and Vampire Counts books, some that don't see competitive play simply because they are more about unpredictable fun rather than consistent results.

I think they still work fine (despite the nerfing of their martyr rule), I just don't see why anyone would pick them for anything beyond fluff reasons. 99% of people would pick greatswords over them any day of the week .

[Kawauso]

Here's hoping for some AA option on a flying beasty that doesn't involve guns. I'd love to be able to vector strike enemy aircraft reliably, or something along those lines...I really don't want to have to add guns to my bugs.

[Ghoulio]

Here's hoping for some AA option on a flying beasty that doesn't involve guns. I'd love to be able to vector strike enemy aircraft reliably, or something along those lines...I really don't want to have to add guns to my bugs.

There were rumors a little while ago that said Pyrovores would get an update in WD with revised rules to make them AA mounts. I think that would actually be pretty boss as they have to be one of the least used units in the game. Like I have literally never seen one in real life outside of the box lol. Hopefully they will get revised stats as well as a new weapon/role considering they are on the same base as a Carnifex but for some reason have the super wimpy stats (exactly mind you) of a Biovore which is on the 40mm base. I also think it would be nice to see the new Flying MC variant with some AA guns as well as vector strike abilities (its base strength can't be too strong since it auto hits).

Regardless I am really looking forward to see the new Harpy + Variant model. You can say what you want about their rules, one thing you can't complain about is their models, especially the new ones (that Tervigon is easily one of my favs of any range).

[Tynskel]

I am hoping they'll bring the old rules back for mycetic spores. They used to be used to blow up fliers, and then they would rain spore mines down to the ground.

The other thing I want: Flight 1549. If you have a Gargoyle swarm is 20+ models, and the unit moves into base 2 base contact with a flyer, and the swarm is under synapse control, the swarm elects to take 2D6 wounds (no armor save), and the Flyer takes Str 10 AP 2 hit, representing clogging up the engines and damaging the cockpit of the flyer.

[rpricew]

I am hoping they'll bring the old rules back for mycetic spores. They used to be used to blow up fliers, and then they would rain spore mines down to the ground.

The other thing I want: Flight 1549. If you have a Gargoyle swarm is 20+ models, and the unit moves into base 2 base contact with a flyer, and the swarm is under synapse control, the swarm elects to take 2D6 wounds (no armor save), and the Flyer takes Str 10 AP 2 hit, representing clogging up the engines and damaging the cockpit of the flyer.

I think you're talking about the Meiotic Spore, not the Mycetic Spore? Maybe I'm the one all messed up, I don't have my IA books handy. We love the Flight 1549 rule here too, but it was for every Gargoyle lost the vehicle took a Str 6 AP 2 hit. We called it "Birdstrike"

[DarkLink]

I dunno, when was the last time you saw someone use a psilencer, or equip an acolyte with a power weapon? And why do the costs of the grey knight special weapons vary from unit to unit in a manner that has nothing whatsoever to do with those units' roles? How about Honour Guard, or the ever-annoying "why are you a Fast Attack slot?" Land Speeder Storm?

As a Grey Knight player, the only unit I don't either personally field regularly or don't see fielded regularly are Purgation squads, Brotherhood Champions, and Brother Captains (and those only because they're almost exactly the same as a Grand Master, except not quite as good, so you always just upgrade). And I've seen all of those played before. Inquisitor Valeria and Brother Captain Stern are both pointless as well, but everything else in the codex has a place.

So 3 units and 2 special characters, compared to:

Draigo, Coteaz, Mordrak, Karamazov, Crowe, Grand Master, Inquisitor, Librarian, Paladins, Purifiers, the Assassins, Henchmen Warbands, Strike Squads, Terminators, Storm Ravens, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Chimeras, Interceptors, Land Raiders, and Dreadnoughts.

Purgation squads really only get passed over because Psyrifle Dreads are underpriced a bit and compete for a slot, and Purifiers are a better deal. Brotherhood Champions just need a second wound and access to grenades to be solid. Adjust the cost of psybolt ammo on various units and nerf the Rad/Psykotroke grenades, and then everything in the codex except a couple of special characters would all be very competitive choices. That's pretty good internal balance. The fact that no one takes psilencers and falchions is just details.

[Houghten]

I disagree entirely with your last sentence. It makes it a complete waste of the sculptor's time.

[Learn2Eel]

There are a lot of upgrades in different codices no one would really use though, it isn't like Ward set the precedent. Take the Tyrannofex for example. No one would ever use the Fleshborer Hive for its rules.

[Anggul]

The rumours sound like a load of rubbish, most of the proposed combi-kits make no sense. The only one that made any sense was Hive/Tyrant Guard.

As for rules, the gaunts are just fine as they are (although they should give Termagants back their Fleet). Pretty much every other entry in the codex has massive and blatant flaws, but Termagants, Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are some of the only things which don't really need changing. Zoanthropes and Raveners are also fine.

There are just a whole lot of changes that need to be made. I've worked on a lot of them myself in a 'codex fix' that I've been writing. It isn't over-powered fanboyish-ness, it's just an attempt at making the many rubbish units and choices useful.

[DWest]

Being very cautiously optimistic here, but I'm hoping Ward is the one doing the new Nids, because power and fluff aside, one thing he is good at is digging into the "back catalog" and bringing weird old RT-era stuff back into the game. If he is doing our book, perhaps we'll see the Genestealer Cult brought back in some form (unsure what other goodies might be lurking in the depths to be summoned up)

[Dominic]

Being very cautiously optimistic here, but I'm hoping Ward is the one doing the new Nids, because power and fluff aside, one thing he is good at is digging into the "back catalog" and bringing weird old RT-era stuff back into the game. If he is doing our book, perhaps we'll see the Genestealer Cult brought back in some form (unsure what other goodies might be lurking in the depths to be summoned up)

Especially with the introduction of allies, I think we'll see Genestealer cults back in the game in one form or another before long

[Chris Purdy]

The one thing that I would like to see is the abilty to take gargoyles and shrikes as a troops choice. The way i see it you would have to have a flyrant and buy it a specific upgrade to use both these fast attack choices as troops.

Apart from that general levelling of stats to make the codex slightly more competitive would be welcome. With all the chapterhouse stuff going on I think we can take it for granted that its in GW best interests now to produce a model for every codex entry, so I expect to see both the harpy and the mycetic spore transport thingy being released in the not too distant future

[Learn2Eel]

There are a lot of things that need to change - i.e. making it so that Tervigons aren't a "must-include" in competitive armies. Generally, cost reductions are needed across the board, as well as rules adjustments for quite a few. Speaking to my LGS owner, I was talking about how I wouldn't be surprised if Hive Tyrants became independent characters and Tyranid Primes could take wings and join up with Shrikes - he agreed and said he thinks it will happen too. And no, that isn't a rumour or anything - that is just what we would both like to see happen. Pyrovores need their rules changed a lot more than a price drop. Even at twenty points a model people would still shake their heads more often than not as they simply don't fit into the army list.

Old One Eye and Carnifexes need some love. Trygons and Mawlocs are ok, although some price changes would be good. The Tyrannofex needs a massive price drop. The Doom is way too cheap for what it does, albeit it is random. Genestealers need to have their rules tweaked - 4+ armour, better strength and attacks are mandatory, as well as price drops.

Though I have an inkling I've made these points already :)

Given that it looks like a Harpy model is being released either in February or March, we might be getting a much better anti-air platform and not have to take over-costed flying Hive Tyrants to fulfill that role.

[Ghoulio]

The single biggest thing I want to see for a new Tyranid codex is to massively cut down on the redundancies of the current codex. I would love to see everything have a place without doubling up. Examples:

Tyrannofex -> Carnifex: The Tyrannofex is a Sniper Fex from last edition (Sniper Fex was T7, W5, 2+ save with a Venom cannon and barbed strangler when the venom cannon had the 100% exact same stats as a rupture cannon). I want to see the Tyrannofex fill a different roll as right now they are both kind of ghetto gun beasts that are obscenely expensive.

Ymgarls -> Lictors: So...a unit that picks a piece of terrain, comes in reserve by popping out of terrain and can assault? Sounds a heck of a lot like Lictors from the 3rd and 4th ed codex. I mean, Ymgarls are just mini lictors. I would love to see Ymgarls removed and Lictors beefed up a small bit and given Ymgarls deployment.

I just want every unit to feel like they have a place instead of being made totally redundant by something that is just OBVIOUSLY better. The range section also totally fits in this as you could lose half the weapons and nobody would notice. FOCUS PEOPLE!! FOCUS! lol. Regardless I hope for great things with the new book!

[Tynskel]

I don't think the Lictor is exactly the same as the Ymgarls. The lictor's placement rules are better than before. The issue is that Pheromone Trails does not work until the turn after the Lictor arrives. Which essentially makes the Lictor's ability worthless.

1) the +1 reserves should be 'while the lictor is alive'. The lictor is already on the board, technically!
2) the beacon should work the instant the Lictor appears, because, again, the Lictor is already on the board!

The lictor has been always an assassin unit, too, so it should have '(ch)' listed next to its profile. They should be able to use precision shots/attacks and issue challenges.

I mean, it is perfect for Hit and Run. Assault a squad, issue a challenge (hahah chaos), assassinate the character, then Hit and Run bug out! Note, also, that if a challenge is refused, your Lictors would then be able to use precision strikes to hit the character (the opponent cannot strike, but the rule doesn't state that it cannot be wounded).

[Anakzar]

In the fluff the lictor is waiting in ambush to jump out kill and then go back into hiding. Its supposed to be on the board and since they had rules with the Ymgarls that allow assault on the same turn they appear from reserves why not lictors as well? The rules almost make it useful but then fall flat... And yes (ch) would help as would giving regular lictors the same rule as the deathleaper ie “where’d it go” to put them back into reserves.

As it is the lictor jumps out shoots twice and then stands about and gets shot at... or it jumps out and runs... either option really don't work with the fluff. It either should be allowed to assault on the turn it pops up... or the fleshhooks should do what they did before, pull any survivors into CC.

Oh and the stealth is not really enough of a save bonus when they are supposed to be almost invisible even when right next to the enemy due to the “chameleonic skin”. I would like to see shrouded at least and possibly both shrouded and stealth... Plus what happened to the dodge 5++ in CC?

[Learn2Eel]

If they made Lictors viable I would be one happy chimp, that's for sure. They are such awesome models, and their background is killer. Ever since learning about Tyranids and playing them in Dawn of War 2, Lictors have been one of my favourite units in 40K. Making them a lot cheaper, giving them better stats (i.e. more durability, better shooting attacks, etc), applying their reserve benefits as long as they are alive, and letting them charge off of reserves would make them really useful for a change.

[Tynskel]

I don't particularly care if they can charge off of reserves. The real key would be their ability to effect reserves and deep strikers. That would be worth their points alone if they could do that.

[Learn2Eel]

I do agree, but still, I would like them to at least have a way of minimizing damage to themselves. Whilst you can pop up in terrain far away from enemy units, you then aren't using it as an assassin/disruption unit either. I think it should fit both roles, otherwise "hunt the lictor" just becomes a one or two turn game to get rid of your reserves bonuses. Hopefully it gets both kinds of buffs, I would even love this idea; come in before reserves rolls, boost reserves and reduce scatter for deep-strikes and the like that turn it is on the board, charge into an enemy unit - maybe have a way of avoiding overwatch (maybe through Flesh Hooks?) or at least make it more durable - challenge and assassinate the squad sergeant, hit and run out of combat then drop off the board like Deathleaper except at the end of the turn. That would be awesome, maybe OP, but if they kept the current price-tag they have then I think it would be fair enough.

[Anakzar]

That would be a little OP. The enemy should get over watch... they got to have at least some hope of taking it out before it snatches away their leader ;) And they already have hit and run, a way to leave combat at the end of the turn if they leave during the enemy turn then at the start of the lictor's turn they could either shoot and charge in again or go back into stealth mode(reserves).

The reserve bonus should be if it is still alive due to its being on the board all the times, just hidden.

humm here is another thought maybe only snap shots could be taken against them? Think of it like the Predator movies that thing was almost invisible and when it was shot at they basically were shooting snap shots at barely seen movement in the bushes. Though a flamer should be able to hit it, in 2nd ed flamer/blast could only hit on a 4+ to simulate the troops not really aiming but instead firing for effect and hoping to get lucky.

[Learn2Eel]

Lictors are just too fragile, either they need a big boost to their durability-based stats or they should get a special rule; that one where you can only snap-fire at them would be good.
The idea of a 70 or so points character sniper that provides reserves bonuses sounds fair to me, obviously it shouldn't be able to beat out Space Marine Captains and the like (unless it is really lucky with rending and stuff) but it would be cool to take out sergeants and the like. In general, making it a character would be great, or at least giving it Precision Strikes. Maybe they are just limited to one per unit? Would fit well with the background I think. I dunno. I just know they need to be changed lol. Even looking at them now, making them T5 (or an extra wound), 4+ armour, making them characters, letting their reserves bonus apply when they become available, and giving them the ability to charge out of reserves and disappear like Deathleaper would make them a competitive choice.

[Tynskel]

They are not fragile.
A Brood of lictors in terrain is quite durable.

They should be characters so they can use precision strike.
It would also be nice if they can take things like 'poison' or 'implant attack'.

[Ghoulio]

I don't think the Lictor is exactly the same as the Ymgarls. The lictor's placement rules are better than before. The issue is that Pheromone Trails does not work until the turn after the Lictor arrives. Which essentially makes the Lictor's ability worthless.

1) the +1 reserves should be 'while the lictor is alive'. The lictor is already on the board, technically!
2) the beacon should work the instant the Lictor appears, because, again, the Lictor is already on the board!

The lictor has been always an assassin unit, too, so it should have '(ch)' listed next to its profile. They should be able to use precision shots/attacks and issue challenges.

I mean, it is perfect for Hit and Run. Assault a squad, issue a challenge (hahah chaos), assassinate the character, then Hit and Run bug out! Note, also, that if a challenge is refused, your Lictors would then be able to use precision strikes to hit the character (the opponent cannot strike, but the rule doesn't state that it cannot be wounded).

I think you are missing the point of what I am saying. In their basic roles from a rules standpoint they do virtually the exact same thing. They both start in reserve, they both appear (one assaults, the other gets shot). What I am saying is you could easily just remove Ymgarls and combine their rules or change the rules for Lictors so they actually fill a niche instead of looking over at Ymgarls in envy as they preform the same roll a million times better. I personally would love to see Lictors be something like 2nd ed where people were terrified of them.

Like I would be happy to see Ymgarls and Deathleapers removed (so 3 units doing the SAME THING) and just have Lictors using th Deathleapers rules combined with the Ymgarls deployment costing around 120pts each at a 0-1 choice, make them 1-3 for that choice, all deployed independantly and change phermone trail to what it was in 4th ed (just a re-roll for one failed reserve other then the lictors per turn whiles its alive). THAT for me is an interesting unit (also a CH as you mentioned) and makes lictors useful again. (just spitballing, not saying that is how they should be just an example of something interesting).

Point is, unique units preforming unique roles within the army because the Hive Mind would design them that way. I want to make choices based on playstyle not "Well, Lictors are horrible and Ymgarls do the same thing but a million times better so obviously I will do Ymgarls".

[rpricew]

A Lictor should have Deathleaper's Stealth/Shrouding and then a 4++ Inv save in CC to simulate his ability to deflect blows, but still make them easy enough to take out with a dedicated CC unit. Flamers/Str 8 Weapons would still be their Kryptonite and they should come in broods of 1-3 with the ability to upgrade one to the Deathleaper for 70 points. If you upgrade the unit, then they can go back into reserves the same as Deathleaper can now. The Pheromone trail should work while the Brood is alive and units arriving from reserves would arrive using a similar rule to Decent of Angels. In a perfect world, being able to deploy them separately like the old Zoanthropes would be awesome too. If you split them up, then they would all be characters, but if run together, then only the upgrade to Deathleaper would allow for Precision Strikes. Also, giving the Deathleaper a "Warlord Trait" that gave him a VP for killing whoever he nominates for his "It's After Me" rule would add a little more to the game in my opinion.

I would like to see Ymgarls as an upgrade to Genestealers broods for the applicable amount of points. This would make them scoring and make Genestealers more viable in 6th edition with all of the changes to the rules with assaults.

[Tynskel]

I don't think genestealers need that kind of change.

So you can't '1st turn' assault. whoopdy doo.
You still have an extremely fast unit that can get large numbers, slaughters in close combat, and has fleet.

Stop taking 10 man units. take 20!

[Kawauso]

I don't think genestealers need that kind of change.

So you can't '1st turn' assault. whoopdy doo.
You still have an extremely fast unit that can get large numbers, slaughters in close combat, and has fleet.

Stop taking 10 man units. take 20!

20-man units are hard to move around with regards to terrain, and Genestealers have a poor save and no assault grenades (which means that much of the time their being 'extremely fast' can be easily negated by your opponent). Also while they aren't terribly expensive, taking that many of them is investing a quite a lot in a unit with those drawbacks that can only do CC.

Don't get me wrong, I love Genestealers and think they're an awesome troops/elite choice, but they do have serious drawbacks (which is not a bad thing!), and those drawbacks make using large units of them kind of impractical.

[rpricew]

I don't think genestealers need that kind of change.

So you can't '1st turn' assault. whoopdy doo.
You still have an extremely fast unit that can get large numbers, slaughters in close combat, and has fleet.

Stop taking 10 man units. take 20!

You make it sound sooooooo easy! (Not trying to be snarky (maybe a little), but without tone, your comment comes off very dry) :cool:

However, it does make me wonder if you've really tried Genestealers in 6th in a competitive capacity? If you've figured out something that most other Tyranid players haven't, then post up a Battle Report video and teach us how it's done. I not trying to get into a flame war with you, and I'm not being sarcastic. I'm saying instead of just throwing up a troll comment about the subject, explain how your strategy works. I just want to have fun friendly discussions with like minded people and maybe learn something from more experienced players.

Kawauso has some really good points about Genestealers. In addition, for 17 points, it doesn't make sense to take them over Hormagaunts at 8 points each. They die way too easily with shooting & Overwatch. Sure, they will wreck whatever they hit, but other units are more point efficient to do so. Hormagaunts are faster and can withstand the casualties much better in broods of 24-28 than Genestealers can at 16-20 for the same or less cost. Large Hormagaunt broods will generally engage and destroy 2-3 units, where a unit of 14-20 Genestealers will typically only be able to handle 1-2 units. The only use I've found is running them as character killers with a 150 point Broodlord commando squad or running them as Ymgarls.

Also, this isn't about a 1st turn assault. You CAN first turn assault if you're positioned right and you go 2nd, so that's not even an issue.

What I thought this was all about, was looking at ways to improve the Codex in the spirit of the unit. Ymgarls, Lictors and Deathleaper all pretty much do the same thing. Ymgarls are just more flexible options to the Genestealer. So why not make them an upgrade? It costs the same points and puts my 60 Genestealers back on the board as Troops, instead of in the already heavily crowded Elite Slot.

[Learn2Eel]

Having looked around, it seems like Tyranids are a high priority for GW right now. Hopefully it is true - it makes sense, given that if they had a new codex with some new units and a significant overhaul of their rules to make them much more balanced and competitive then it would draw massive numbers/sales. Literally the only reason a lot of people don't play Tyranids is the rules in the current codex.

As a general rumour, someone over on Warseer has posted that Cruddace is doing Tau (as everyone kind of expects), Kelly is doing Eldar (no surprises again), Ward is doing Orks (interesting to say the least), Kelly is doing Black Templars and either Kelly or Ward is doing Tyranids (likely the latter, though either would be great). Seems quite reasonable. That would also fit with the rumour that Vetock is doing Daemons as well (though Ward is the other rumoured author).

[Tynskel]

Competitively? Hellz no. I got my WAAC out during 'ard boyZ. However, I don't take all genestealer lists. I use a squad of 20 and I take a phat squad of hormogaunts. I have used that since 2nd Edition. They charge the same targets together. Tyranids are always about synergy, so, if you don't charge things together, things are gunna suck.

1 simple trick: go to ground if someone shoots at your genestealers. They are doing their job if if people are shooting at them, not your hormogaunts.

[Learn2Eel]

Well isn't this (http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/tyranids-nextfor-aprils-white-dwarf.html) interesting....



Earlier today I received an email that the next White Dwarf (April's edition/ released in March) was seen, and in it, Tyranids were spotted. Exactly what it was that was seen is still a mystery, but its still exciting to think that our favorite bugs might just be next for some sort of an update or release.


Please note that this is a rumor, and that this email's content was edited for posting.

via the Faeit 212 inbox from an anonymous source
Tyranids is next month. Not sure whats coming exactly, but the info was spotted from an upcoming WD due out at the end of march.

One comment on the blog says that it is the model release of the Harpy and a points increase for the Tervigon. Thanks, nerf our best unit in a codex where almost every unit is over-costed? Not that I don't think Tervigons need a debuff though, but more so the rest of the codex needs to be brought up to scratch.

Interesting if true, and it would definitely signify that Tyranids would be out before the end of the year.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Here is one more vote against "Eternal Warrior." It is my least favorite rule in 40k and smacks more of Superhero genera than Sci-Fi in my opinion. I've played Nids for years and I love the idea of a big, fat bug taking a krack rocket to the head and exploding into chunks. It is very cinematic and eternal warrior breaks that immersion. I agree with the many people on this thread who believe the better fix is to address the high points costs. As it is, Chaos can build cheaper swarm lists than the Nids and that just does not seem right.

[Learn2Eel]

Agreed, I think Eternal Warrior would be nice but our units are over-costed regardless.

[eldargal]

It could be a wave release with a new kit or two and new rules. I doubt they would tweak old rules though and just just for one random unit like the tervigon.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I just sold off my Tyranid army, too. Bad timing on my part!

[Mr Mystery]

Well isn't this (http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/tyranids-nextfor-aprils-white-dwarf.html) interesting....



One comment on the blog says that it is the model release of the Harpy and a points increase for the Tervigon. Thanks, nerf our best unit in a codex where almost every unit is over-costed? Not that I don't think Tervigons need a debuff though, but more so the rest of the codex needs to be brought up to scratch.

Interesting if true, and it would definitely signify that Tyranids would be out before the end of the year.

Last months had a Necron flier on the back page.

Could be a few releases later in the month, but In'm not sure it signifies anything.

[Bigred]

That flyer wave is still floating around somewhere and has a tyranid flyer in it...

[Learn2Eel]

Yep, that's what I am thinking as well, and it would make perfect sense.