Daemons Rumours

[Learn2Eel]

This is a pretty big Daemons rumour compilation, I thought you guys might want to check it out :) Not trying to deflate Dark Angels, but no harm in looking at what is likely coming next.
Hopefully they are entirely new codices, both the WFB and WH40K codices are very old. Apparently they aren't changing too much, mostly modifications, rules tweaking and points drops/increases ala the WD update. Hopefully (40k wise) the rules for Screamers and Flamers aren't indicative of the rest of the codex. I am interested to see the new Greater Daemons, it sounds like they will be absolutely massive models. Hopefully they get better rules this time around - they are still awesome in the current 40k codex, just a bit over-costed IMO.


Via Faeit 212 (http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/chaos-daemons-release-compilation-for.html).

Most readers here know I have an opinion that goes against the grain when it comes to the rumored February's codex and army book release of Daemons. Even though its backed up by behind the scenes rumors and is directed towards 40k only, I want to move past that, because there is a ton of information floating around regarding Daemons, and In reality, it would be cool to get two 40k codices out in the first two months of the year. So lets assume I am wrong (I hope I am), and there is a double Daemon release in February.


Here is the latest and greatest regarding Chaos Daemons and the Daemons of Chaos books to be released in February. This compilation was put together by Zion over on the Horus Heresy forums. (actually note, that as far as forums go.... this is one of the few that I actually enjoy being on and reading).


Compilation via Zion over on Heresy Online
Daemon Rumours
For those who just want the quick compilation here it is (actual links and rumour postings are below the compilation for those who want to see where this is all coming from):

Writer: Jeremy Vetock (both books!) (if this is true, it might be why we haven't seen that much from him recently prior to the DA book)
Projected Release: Dual Release in Feb (primarily gathered from other rumours)

Undivided
Chaos Beast (Maybe this guy? ) Approximately Daemon Prince sized/about twice as tall as a Bloodletter
Furies getting redone. Approximately Gargoyle sized with bat wings and a number of different head options (heads are 2 section heads like the Bloodletters). Dual kit with a ground based model option as well. Plastic kit.
New Elite Daemon Engine. Approximately Dreadnought sized. Lots of options with some God-specific model bits. Rumoured to be unique to Daemons.

Khorne
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
Jes Goodwin rumoured to be the one who sculpted/is sculpting the new Bloodthirster
Khorne Chariot (2 Bloodcrushers pulling something that looks like a wagon) with a Herald or some kind of new model that looks like it's belching fire.
Some kind of large flame belcher thing (maybe same as the option for the chariot?)
New Bloodthirster reportedly is a little shorter than the Dreadknight, hasn't changes too much in style though.

Tzeentch
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
New Chariot, pulled by screamers with Horrors riding it. Has an alternate Large Flamer (Pyrocastser perhaps?) rider option too.
Large Flamer (Pyrocaster perhaps? Maybe the same as the chariot character) “instead of horrors” (again, I have no idea what they mean by this, as it's an odd statement that doesn't make too much sense).
New Lord of Change is the tallest of the new Greater Daemons (not counting the wings). Apparently less hunched than before, and has a “fishy looking” option.

Slaanesh
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
Plastic Fiends were in the works. Current status unknown.
New Keeper of Secrets is a whole new design, shirking the old design and the FW one for something different, but still “very Slanneshi”.

Nurgle
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
Large Base Palanquin, Nurglings, Daemon Prince Base, Fat Plague Bearer (I'm not sure what this one means, this is the actual sentence from the rumour)
New Ku'gath design?
No Blight Drone
Some kind of large Nurgle flies being ridden by Plaguebearers
New Great Unclean One reportidly the best of the new Greater Daemon options (“absolutely rot, in a good way”)

Other
Rumours of a Chaos piece of terrain, no word on if it made it past the idea stage or if it's just wishlisting.
No word of other Exalted Chariot options at this time
All models are designed for both Fantasy and 40k now
Only Characters getting models are the ones who haven't gotten one yet
Daemons update will not be a huge overhaul to the books, mostly an addition of new models (I'm guessing some rules changes, points costs and some statlines will get tweaked a bit too if the WD update is anything to go by)
New Greater Daemons looked bigger than the old ones, might be moving to a larger base size
Greater Daemons might be wave releases instead of when the book drops.

The Rumour Posts:
These are all from Warseer's Fantasy Rumour section, though from the rumurs they should also carry over to the 40k codex which is supposed to drop at the same time (if the rumours are true).

Harry on Warseer:
In an effort to pull together what few rumours we have …
I have started threads for each of the armies rumoured to be somewhere in the pipeline.
I will do my best to keep the first posts updated as more rumours appear in these threads.
I have tried to remember as much as I can of what has been posted so far.
I will have missed or forgotten some of it ... so, any rumours that have been posted please just remind me ‘who’ said ‘what’ and I will update this first post.

Daemons of Chaos:
I know we have only just had a wave of Daemons but now we have this from hastings:

Release Date:
"The daemon rules should be taken as a stepping stone to the updated book (much like the wd vc terrorgheist article) next 4 books (for both systems are all chaos (in one form or another) and will hit within 4-5 months for all of them". (Hastings).
To clarify....Books: CSM, WoC, DoC, Chaos Daemons
All will be realeased within 4-5 months of the CSM codex hitting (sep afaik) (Hastings)

So we are talking february at the latest?
Author:
Unknown

Rules:
Unknown ... Beyond those suggested by the rules booklet in the recent WD

Models:
All 4 greater Deamons will get plastic kits (with head/weapon options plus wfb/40k specific bits on sprues) and that there will be "resin conversion packs" to make "named greater Deamons". (Hastings) No idea of timescales on this. I am not expecting them to arrive together Or with this wave. (Harry)
Jes Goodwin is rumoured to be doing the Bloodthirster. (BRING IT ON! ) No timescale for this. (NatTreehouse)
Khorne chariot, two bloodcrushers pulling a wagon with herald option or some fire belching thing. Large base
Tzentch chariot, pulled by screamers, with horrors riding, but I've also heard it has a large flamer rider too. Large base
Nurgle palanquin, nurglings, daemon prince base, fat plague bearer.
4 GD with variants for named daemons and swappable options, most rumors point to resin packs, but I've heard wind its all in the plastic kits lately. I'd lean towards Harry's news, but I hope for all in one myself. I have heard that these may be moving to the larger base now, if so, they will be huge. One can hope, but I don't have a lot of confidence in this bit.
Furies (no dual kit options I've heard of.) in plastic.
Plastic fiends were being worked on at one point, but I haven't heard anything about them recently.
New elite daemon engine. 40k Dreadnought sized. Lots of options. Quasi-God specific bits like the soulgrinder. Supposedly unique to daemons not the same as this new unit for chaos space marines.(Stickmonkey)
Big khorn flame belcher thing
Tzeentch Larger flamer instead of horrors.
Sounded like more ranged options for the daemons.(Stickmonkey)

Harry:
Maybe their are just two books ... with daemons included!!!

EDIT: Although hastings is pretty clear...
To clarify....
Books.
CSM
WoC
DoC
Chaos Daemons
All will be realeased within 4-5 months of the CSM codex hitting (sep afaik)

Stickmonkey:
Quote:
There has been some chatter on a demonic terrain piece, but I'm putting it down to wishlisting for now, nothing solid. Portal? meh. Shrine? meh.

I got to see the Ku'gath designs recently. Pretty Ace. The lab is wild, with nurgling assistants. I'm looking forward to seeing it translated to a model.

No more exalted chariots...at least not that I've heard of.

I did see a design for a big unaligned chaos beast of some kind. Looked like a oversized bear with a toothy maw instead of a head. No idea if it ever went on to be a model. Probably daemon prince sized. Design had a bloodletter drawn next to it which may have been half it's height.
I'm thinking the Chaos Beasts might be based on this guy. He's about twice the height of your infantry sized models after all.

Hastings (in response to a question regarding the Blight Drone being added to the 40K codex, this was confirmed again in the Fantasy rumour thread as a valid rumour):
Quote:
Not blight drones but similar, I can see 40k players using the FW blight drones instead of the big nurgle flies ridden by plagubearers that are getting released.

Stickmonkey:
Looks like my sourcing is again off on timelines. So I'm putting in an update on it here, lots of things have changed to me since my last timeline thread. (I want to repeat, these are rumors, almost none of this really "changes" per se, GW's got their plan, I don't, I get information that aligns from a few sources and try to base what I tell you on that)

Was correct on WoC for Nov, as that's in the bag now, moving on to Dec.

Jan:
Daemons. Still on track. Vetock doing WFB and 40k books, but I havent had confirmation that the books are actually coming in Jan. Expect Greater Daemons in plastic, a couple new chariots, a new daemon engine, and a couple new characters (well...characters which have never received models) Word is the Daemons update will not be a huge overhaul to the current book. Expect few new units. But the new GD models are phenomenal, love every one of them, especially the new GUO. None of the new units are single system, everything is in both 40k and WFB now.
Obviously he was off on Jan (that is Dark Angels), but the other stuff he mentions lines up with other rumours, and he gives us an author.


StickMonkey...
I forgot about Furies. They have been redone, they are coming for Daemons, they look so much better than the current models. The question will be if their rules make them worth it. They are about Nid Gargoyle sized, maybe a bit larger. Bat wings. Much more daemonic heads with toothy maws in 2 parts like the horrors and bloodletters. Not the bat men of old. Dual kit with a new ground based daemon, much like the vargheist/crypt horrors (which I've mentioned before).

There are a lot of questions winging my way about the GD. So to try to address those:
1. I don't know for sure all 4 will be released at once or if they will be in waves.
2. I have conflicting rumors they are moved to the oval base and are roughly the size of the beastmen gorghon, vs staying on the 60mm round bases. Based on my personal eyes on on WIP before, they are bigger. The GUO was not as big as the FW model, but its bigger than a dreadnought. My source says the GUO is the best looking of the new models, that it is "absolutely rot, in a good way".
3. The BT should be slightly shorter than the dreadknight. stylewise it hasnt changed much.
4. The KoS is the most changed style wise. Does not go towards the FW model or retain the style of the current GW model. Still very slaaneshi
5. The LoC AFAIK is the tallest of the models, not just due to the wings. Did not appear as hunched as before. Head options include a more fishy looking option.


via Stickmonkey 2-6-2012

Overview and Schedule

The Chaos Daemons release slot as last time around is a dual system release, updating the repsective armies for both Warhammer 40,000, and Warhammer Fantasy. There are a large number of models to be released as well as both books, so look for it to get broken up into 2 waves at least - with the lower possibility of 3 waves.

Look for the initial wave next month, and follow up waves a quarter later. That would put the first wave in March and the followup in June. Note however that Games Workshop has this thing for releasing Daemons in August - so that second wave might slide a little.

In any case, onto the waves themselves:

Wave 1
BloodThirster/Skarbrand (plastic)
Great Unclean One (plastic)
Chariot of Khorne/Herald of Khorne/Khorne Cannonade (anyone remember the old epic Doom Blaster)
Plague Flies of Nurgle
Palanquin of Nurgle/KuGath upgrade/Herald of Nurgle
Fiend of Slaanesh

There is also word of a named Daemon Prince and several smaller finecast models as well.


via Stickmonkey 2-7-2012


This round of rumors is regarding the Second Wave, penciled in for June. Note however that Games Workshop has this thing for releasing Daemons in August - so that second wave might slide a little.

In any case, onto the waves themselves:

Wave 2
Keeper of Secrets/(Named GD of Slaanesh)
Lord of Change/Fateweaver
Furies/(Chaos ground daemons...I've heard this alternate kit unit has an "unstable" rules granting them an extra save, a 12" teleport, and a chance to lose models (determined randomly).
Hounds of Khorne
An all new Tzeentch Flyer... (NOT the Heldrake)
Chariot of Tzeentch/ Flame cannon alt kit)

via Blood of Kittens (http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/02/17/rumor-it-releases-daemon-rules-front/) 2-17-2012

As most people realize Daemons will lose both Fearless and Eternal Warrior replaced with 5+ invulnerable and Fear. Eternal Warrior never really made sense in the grand scheme of things anyway because wouldn't Force Weapons be perfect to "banish" Daemons back to the War? As for Fearless, see a return of "instability" which is going to be close to 5th edition Fearless.

As I stated in a previous rumor GW is hell-bent on having each army hate something. Daemons are no different they just seem to hate themselves now.

Taking a look at the Chaos Space Marine and Warriors of Chaos books you can see where this is going. Each Chaos God units will hate a certain other god. This leads into the next rules change right in front of us. Depending on the Daemon's God it will determine the special abilities they get.

Khorne: Furious Charge

Slaanesh: Rending, Run bonus, Fleet

Tzeentch: Re-roll 1s for saves

Nurgle: Slow & Purposeful, Shrouded

Other changes that will surely happen...

Flamers and Screamers are getting nerfed, but the real big change will be Deamons having standard Deployment rules: no more Daemonic Assault.

The big reason Deamons were fast tracked has to do with Alessio Cavatore. Chatting with a few inside GW there has been an everything Alessio purge, and Daemons are the last big chunk of Alessio material left. Yeah, I know it sounds kinda petty, but it was a major impetus to get Daemons done. Daemons will still primarily be an assault based army, but that is the nature of the models having to be used both for Fantasy and 40k. That means Daemons will rely on speed to get across the board. Expect Chariots, warp portals, beasts, cavalry, jump troops to help with all this. Then there is cover saves Nurgle is the first piece of the puzzle, but just like certain Dark Angel things expect a "Clouds of Flies" to provide bonuses to cover saves all around. Chaos Space Marines and Deamons ICs will be able to join each other as long as their gods match up.


via DakkaDakka 2-18-2012

New Range Items

Warhammer: Daemons of Chaos

96 page full colour, hardback Warhammer Armies book

Codex: Chaos Daemons

· 104 page full colour, hardback Codex

Chaos Daemons: Plague Drones of Nurgle

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes three Plague Drones that are multi-posable and offer collectors a large variety when assembling them

Chaos Daemons: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch/Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes either a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch or a Herald of Tzeentch on a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

Chaos Daemons: Blood Throne of Khorne/Skull Cannon of Khorne

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes either a Blood Throne of Khorne or a Skull Cannon of Khorne

Herald of Nurgle

This Clampack contains a new plastic Herald of Nurgle on a sculpted base
New Finecast Releases

Herald of Khorne

A clampack that contains one highly detailed Citadel Finecast resin miniature


Herald of Slaanesh

A clampack that contains one highly detailed Citadel Finecast resin miniature


Available While Stocks Last
These Items are highly limited, please request the quantity you require and we will supply you as close to this number as we can.

Warhammer Battle Magic: Daemons of Chaos

A deck of 21 cards that contains the 6 spells for the Lores of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh as well as their signature spells

Psychic Powers: Chaos Daemons

A deck of 12 cards that contains the Primaris powers and 3 Psychic powers for the Lores Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle as well


via Faeit 212 2-19-2012

The Bloodthirster : 280pts
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
10 4 9 7 5 5 5 10 5+
Daemonic gifts: blood axe, armour of terror, whip of destruction
special rules: daemon, daemonic flight, furious charge, rage,blood without end
blood axe - user gains a previously lost wound he has lost earlier in game for every kill he makes on a 4+
armour of terror - user gains a 2+ save and 5+ invulnerable. The bearer gains a 4+ feel no pain if the weapons AP in lower than 3
whip of destruction - 12'' shooting attack - strength 8 AP 4 rending
daemon - see page 36
daemonic flight- see chaos special rules
furious charge & rage - rule book (P41&37)

Blood Without End- the Bloodthirster gains +d6 attacks on the charge and makes another strike at initiative step 1 for every wound he causes.
These extra strikes do not produce any further strikes.

Great Unclean One : 260pts
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 4 6 8 6 1 4 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: plague sword of death, bloated body, aura of decay
special rules: daemon, slow and purposeful,my master gifts all,shrouded
plague sword of death - wounds everything on 2+ with an ap of 3 - turns characters into spawn
bloated body - the daemon has a 4+ armour save and a 3+ feel no pain on any weapon AP 5 or below.
aura of decay - the great unclean one has defensive and assault grenades and causes all enemy weapons to count as -1 strength (I believe this is ranged and
close combat)

daemon - page 36
slow and purposeful - page 42
shrouded- page 41

My Master Gifts All - pick an enemy and friendly unit at the beginning of the game. The enemy unit gains -1 toughness and strength while a friendly Plaguebearers count as +1 strength and +1 to there feel no pain rolls.

TROOPS
Bloodletters: 14pts each
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 0 5 4 1 4 2 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: blood swords (strength: user AP: 4)
special rules: daemon, furious charge,rage
unit type: infantry
Number/squad: 5-20

Daemonettes of Slannesh: 12pts each
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 0 4 3 1 6 2 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: rending claws
special rules: fleet, make them suffer (+1 added to strength - already included)
Unit type: infantry
Number/squad: 5-15


WARGEAR
Tzeench Gift of Betrayal -50pts (one use)
pick an enemy independent character at random, that model or unit must pass a leadership test with a -4 penalty or be removed after being sucked into the warp for tzeench amusement, models from codex: space marine, dark angels,black templars,grey knights,space wolves,blood angels take a -2 penalty instead to represent their resistance from the dark gods temptations.

Nurgle's Blessing (30pts)
pick a nurgle unit in your army, that model/unit gains +1 to their feel no pain roll.

Sword of a Thousand Souls: 45pts
the bearer must charge every enemy unit and must challenge but gain +2d6 extra attacks on the charge.

Dance of Death: 40pts
pick an enemy unit at the beginning of the game, that unit must roll a initiative test every turn of the game or is under the control of the daemon player. The unit under control may charge friendly models but cannot move off the board or into any piece of terrain that can cause hard to the model. If the enemy passes the initiative test more than three times during the battle then the dance has been removed for the remainder of the game.

And Prices...

40K: Codex Chaos Daemons $49.50
WFB: Daemons of Chaos Army Book $49.50
WFB: Chaos Daemons Battalion/Battleforce $115.00
WFB: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch $40.00
WFB: Plague Drones of Nurgle $60.00
WFB: Blood Throne of Khorne $40.00
WFB: Herald of Nurgle $25.00


via Faeit 212 2-25-2012


Daemonic: Instability
If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6. You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by.

Daemons count as being fearless for shooting.

Heralds:
Have +1 to WS, W, I, A and have Ld: 9-10
If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not affected by daemonic Instability

Armor Saves:
All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save.
There are upgrades to give Heralds 3+ and even a 2+ save (very expensive)

Greater Daemons:
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Keeper of Secrets -
Base A:6, rending, and gain more attacks for every kill.

Bloodthirster - has amazing stat line:
WS BS S T W A I LD SV
10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+

Re-rolls all failed to hit and to wound.

Fateweaver -
Can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerable save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armor saves)

Basic Daemons:
Bloodletters – reduced by 1 point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points , are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points, shrouding replaces feel no pain.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points, improved saves.

Other Daemons:
Bloodcrushers are monstrous beasts with rage. (very expensive)
Beast of Nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by over 30 points.
Soulgrinder has skyfire in profile (220pts base)

Psychic Powers: Are very random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

[DrLove42]

Hmmm. Deamons.

[eldargal]

New Keeper of Secrets is a whole new design, shirking the old design and the FW one for something different, but still “very Slanneshi”.
Glistening devils dumplings, as far as the eye can see...

[Wolfshade]

This is a little left field. As in I was not expecting to hear this. But then didn't they have a WD codex not so long ago?

[eldargal]

It's not that left field, we've known daemons were not far off for a while.

[Wildeybeast]

This is a pretty big Daemons rumour compilation, I thought you guys might want to check it out :) Not trying to deflate Dark Angels, but no harm in looking at what is likely coming next.
Hopefully they are entirely new codices, both the WFB and WH40K codices are very old. Apparently they aren't changing too much, mostly modifications, rules tweaking and points drops/increases ala the WD update. Hopefully (40k wise) the rules for Screamers and Flamers aren't indicative of the rest of the codex. I am interested to see the new Greater Daemons, it sounds like they will be absolutely massive models. Hopefully they get better rules this time around - they are still awesome in the current 40k codex, just a bit over-costed IMO.

They are called army books in Warhammer. :p

[DrLove42]

I'd hardly call the WD update a codex.

[Wolfshade]

I'd hardly call the WD update a codex.

No, what I was thinking that was the time between the BA WD codex and the BA Codex wasn't that bad and it gave hints towards the design view

[Mr Mystery]

Interesting....

As you might have noticed, I'm normally highly sceptical of rumours, regardless of source. However....

1. Nothing too outlandish in there. At all.
2. Description of the models helps credibility.

Very interesting.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I am really looking forward to seeing the new greater daemon models.

[Learn2Eel]

Same, whilst I like the Fateweaver and Lord of Change models, I feel the others do need a re-design. Keeping bias aside, I would much rather a plastic Lord of Change as well really.

[Grulgor]

Oh dear lord bringing out all the chaos in one lump, too much tempting stuff in one small space of time, though at least the next 4-5 years should be cheaper so long as I resist getting another army.

[Learn2Eel]

Hahahaha too true mate, too true!
I'll see how the Daemons fare. If they actually get a balanced codex, I may give them more of a go (I have a very tiny force of them).

[Clewz]

Definitely interested if they redo the greater deamons. The current ones are far too cartoony

[The Sovereign]

Hoping they rebalance the Tzeentch flavored units a bit, as I'm a huge fan of the screamer models, but don't want to be considered a cheese player. The rumors about new furies, the war beast, and the flyer have me very excited, though!

[Learn2Eel]

I can't wait to see the White Dwarf leaks lol, a lot of people are saying the Daemons are getting new hardcover codices/army books, though I must say I have a feeling it won't be Daemons....

[Wildeybeast]

Leaked pictures of Warriors of Chaos down in the fantasy thread mean there will be no daemons in Feb.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Glistening devils dumplings, as far as the eye can see...

Reminds me of my favourite Blackadder episodes (Beer).

[eldargal]

Reminds me of my favourite Blackadder episode (Beer).
That's where I got it from, also one of my favourite episodes.:) It's amusing and synergises well with other factors.


Also Hastings, I believe, meant advance orders go up in February, implication being a march release.

[Learn2Eel]

That is correct, though I think they may put the rumoured flyer wave in between Warriors of Chaos and Daemons just to mix it up. Chaos followed by Chaos is good for a lot of people, but it might not work out the best for GW sales wise. I guess we will see, I am more looking forward to how Daemons go than anything else. I'm itching to do another Tactica :D hahaha.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Reminds me of my favourite Blackadder episode (Beer).

God it has been an age since I have seen black adder, hehe, love that show.


I am hoping a lot for the greater daemons, as they have always been such cool ideas, but the forgeworld counterparts have always been like 10 steps above the standard there. It would be nice to see really good quality models of the daemons, especially with all GW's current modelling technology.

[Bigred]

OP updated latest info.

[White Tiger88]

OP updated latest info.

ME likey likey........This gives my vampires lots of new models to make undead >:D

[TheCastigator]

I am very concerned to see what the price increases end up being for this release, given that they pushed the slaughterbrute/mutalith to $85, I expect we can see the same or more for demons. Glad to hear Vetock is doing them, I am a pretty big fan of his fantasy work.

[MajorWesJanson]

I am very concerned to see what the price increases end up being for this release, given that they pushed the slaughterbrute/mutalith to $85, I expect we can see the same or more for demons. Glad to hear Vetock is doing them, I am a pretty big fan of his fantasy work.

I actually think the increase will not be as much. Slaughterbrute is a rare choice for one army in fantasy, which means only one or two will be taken. GDs are HQ choices for Both Armies IIRC, and can be used more easily in multiples, meaning a slightly lower price will help encourage more sales, thus volume. If you look at 40K, especially Nids, the Hive Tyrant is $53.75 and Tyrannofex is $57.75, and the Trygon is 57.75. The latter two are on the large oval base, and are large models with options, so I'd say similar in kit size to the Greater Daemons. I'd guess some increase, but my guess is that the GDs will be no more than either $66 or $72, and not $85. $85 is a higher price point for the Slaughterbrute calculated to recoup costs on a kit that will not sell as many. GDs are far more iconic and ought to sell better.

[White Tiger88]

we pay 100+ for big models here now,..

[Lord Krungharr]

If they decide to make the Greater Daemons move to a bigger base size, like the flyer oval base, my original Greater Daemons will look very very puny. But they'll still be legal models won't they? If the bigger base happens, should I mount them on piles of skulls rather than just fields of skull to make them taller like the new models?

I hope the squad sizes of the Plague Flies is big enough to make them useful, and maybe they'll have some ranged puke attack or something too, or a poison slash attack, something ranged and Nurgley!

Skarbrand might be worth taking if they make his Bellow of Rage or whatever it's called only effective to 'friendly' models. I also think Khorne and maybe Slaanesh should have like a 50 point Icon upgrade of some sort that permits assaulting from Reserves. That would make sense, and be appropriately costed, and only the god-specific Daemons could use it. And Bloodcrushers should count as Cavalry just like the JuggerLords in the CSM Codex. That's my wishlist.

[Bigred]

Another day, another set of rumors. OP updated.

[White Tiger88]

Another day, another set of rumors. OP updated.

Is it bad i am hoping BOLS somehow gives away a demon army of new models for me to try & win? (For some reason i want to play them suddenly......)

[Learn2Eel]

We'll know soon enough if it is indeed Daemons I guess. I expect White Dwarf leaks in the next few days - the anticipation is really getting to me!
Let's just hope for a fine, balanced codex that brings some significant changes to make both assault and ranged Daemons work!

[The Sovereign]

I'm salivating thinking about a multi-build Lord of Change! The fish-like head has me very intrigued; maybe something with a little Lovecraftian influence?

[Learn2Eel]

I'm salivating thinking about a multi-build Lord of Change! The fish-like head has me very intrigued; maybe something with a little Lovecraftian influence?

Yes! Though I will still keep my recently bought Finecast Lord of Change model as my Fateweaver - one thing I did like about the Finecast kit was that it came with two heads and two necks to make your own, less frail Fateweaver. I'll be very interested in any other new Tzeentch Daemons, and see how their rules go.

[White Tiger88]

I have the erge to do a Tzeentch\Slaanesh army now.......Boob's & Tentical Magic!

[KrewL RaiN]

We'll know soon enough if it is indeed Daemons I guess. I expect White Dwarf leaks in the next few days - the anticipation is really getting to me!
Let's just hope for a fine, balanced codex that brings some significant changes to make both assault and ranged Daemons work!

QFT! I am so hoping for a nice balanced codex with some new toys!

[Learn2Eel]

Not sure if these have been added, but new Daemons rumours from Tastytaste, or at least what he expects;

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/02/17/rumor-it-releases-daemon-rules-front/


Now that everyone has ordered their redundant Death from the Skies it is time to move on to the next "impeding" release: Deamons. I am one to think that they aren't coming out just yet, but maybe with the April release. With rules rumors being hard to come by let us look at some obvious ones right in front us and others not so much.

As most people realize Daemons will lose both Fearless and Eternal Warrior replaced with 5+ invulnerable and Fear. Eternal Warrior never really made sense in the grand scheme of things anyway because wouldn't Force Weapons be perfect to "banish" Daemons back to the War? As for Fearless, see a return of "instability" which is going to be close to 5th edition Fearless.

As I stated in a previous rumor GW is hell-bent on having each army hate something. Daemons are no different they just seem to hate themselves now.

Taking a look at the Chaos Space Marine and Warriors of Chaos books you can see where this is going. Each Chaos God units will hate a certain other god. This leads into the next rules change right in front of us. Depending on the Daemon's God it will determine the special abilities they get.

Khorne: Furious Charge

Slaanesh: Rending, Run bonus, Fleet

Tzeentch: Re-roll 1s for saves

Nurgle: Slow & Purposeful, Shrouded

Other changes that will surely happen...

Flamers and Screamers are getting nerfed, but the real big change will be Deamons having standard Deployment rules: no more Daemonic Assault.

The big reason Deamons were fast tracked has to do with Alessio Cavatore. Chatting with a few inside GW there has been an everything Alessio purge, and Daemons are the last big chunk of Alessio material left. Yeah, I know it sounds kinda petty, but it was a major impetus to get Daemons done. Daemons will still primarily be an assault based army, but that is the nature of the models having to be used both for Fantasy and 40k. That means Daemons will rely on speed to get across the board. Expect Chariots, warp portals, beasts, cavalry, jump troops to help with all this. Then there is cover saves Nurgle is the first piece of the puzzle, but just like certain Dark Angel things expect a "Clouds of Flies" to provide bonuses to cover saves all around. Chaos Space Marines and Deamons ICs will be able to join each other as long as their gods match up.

Things have been spares from all rumor mongers, but a lot has to do with GW "renewed" lock down; translated GW rumor monger wack'a'mole.

Another good thing to understand is GW is moving quicker with releases than ever before. They had almost an entire year to create a backlog on sculpting and rules. To give you an example, the Chaos Space Marine codex was done in December of 2011. I am not talking about just the rules, but everything the photography, the layout, everything! Dark Angels same thing, done in March 2011. That means Daemons have been done since June and Tau and Eldar compelete or almost complete.

What I am getting at is this is going to be an epic year for releases, with only the Chapterhouse lawsuit and a new CEO possibly getting in the way.

Finally, I have a public service announcement from the dev team, they really want rules questions, so everyone keep on sending in any rules quandaries to

[email protected]

The design team has made updating FAQs a priority, which has been a marked and great change from years past.


So no more Fearless and Eternal Warrior, but a Daemonic Instability rule ala Fantasy? I guess that does fit with the changes to the Daemon Universal Special Rule, and what we have seen in the Chaos Space Marines codex. I expect the Daemon Prince and probably the greater daemons to retain Fearless though. Most units in the codex don't even need Eternal Warrior anyway, so no big loss. The rules for each god being identical to those 'Daemons of' get for Chaos Space Marines would also make sense; in that sense, could you imagine how, for example, that might affect Lords of Change and Fateweaver? They look good IMO, Slaanesh daemons are really quick, Khorne daemons have Furious Charge as always, and Nurgle daemons get Slow and Purposeful (low Initiative anyway, no guns to Overwatch) but Shrouded.

No more daemonic assault means some big adjustments to units, though that will definitely bring Screamers and Flamers back into line. The prospect of lots of ways to get your assault units up close really quickly is nice, considering almost the entire codex is melee-focused could this mean we get the first true working assault army in 6th edition? Also, independent characters from Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons able to join units from either codex finally? Yes please! Nothing says 'oomph!' like a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaught riding with Skullcrushers!

It is also interesting to note that he made no mention of Daemons in relation to psychic powers.....could this mean they are keeping their 'daemonic gifts' based powers? I still think turning them into psychic abilities would make more sense in terms of 6th Edition, just that they can never suffer Perils of the Warp or something like that. It will be interesting to see how they handle it, to say the least.

I hope he is wrong and they are coming out this month though. I've been waiting so long for them....and they really need more players.

[Wildeybeast]

Well, it was a Warhammer release this month, so it's almost nailed on to be a 40K one again in March. I suppose it could be Tau or more fliers, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't Daemons.

[The Sovereign]

I'm okay with screamers and flamers getting a bit of a nerf. I started playing Tzeentch flavored Daemons right before the infamous WD update, and the screamer models were what got me into the army; I love their look (oddly, I hate the flamer models). So I'd prefer not to get grouped in with "cheese" players, as I got into the army for all the right reasons.

[Learn2Eel]

That's the spirit! Whilst I do enjoy the fact that playing a Tzeentch army (my favourite kind) would be awesomely competitive for a change, I'm much more invested in the background and models. It's why I've been an ardent Thousand Sons player for years.
I do like manta rays *cough* Screamers, the concept is awesome. Just wish I didn't feel like a cheese-beard for fielding them.

[Learn2Eel]

Hey guys, apparently a release list has been leaked about the impending Daemons release. Will update once I have the proper sourcing. Apparently a local retailer has let it slip and is taking pre-orders already....

PLEASE BE TRUE!!!!!

Not sure if it is ok to post the source here, as it is another forum, but I've got the quote here and the link (http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/index.php?showtopic=10171&st=75).


This is coming for sure:

Codex: chaos daemons
Psychic powers: chaos daemons
Warhammer: daemons of chaos
Chaos daemons battalion/battleforce
Chaos daemon burning chariot of tzeentch
Chaos daemons plague drones of nurgle
Chaos daemons blood throne of khorne
Chaos daemons herald of nurgle
Chaos daemons herald of khorne
Chaos daemons herald of slaanesh


It's already on preorder by local dealer.

If it is true, it does confirm a big question about Chaos Daemons; they are switching to psykers! Two Mastery Level 4 heads for Fateweaver anyone? Would definitely compensate for the expected loss of his re-rollable saves aura....though as a Tzeentch Daemon he still re-rolls his 1s for saves :cool: Oh my I'm really excited!!!!

Obviously, no updated Greater Daemon models does raise doubts as they were apparently going to be a big part of the new release. Maybe they will be a later wave down the track, ala the re-done Eldar models? They did just move the Great Unclean One and Keeper of Secrets to Finecast after all.....

The Plague Drones are obviously the rumoured giant flies ridden by Plaguebearers - i.e. jetbikes/flying monstrous cavalry. Interesting to see if the chariots are available as transports for 40K daemons to get across the board, no doubt Khorne needs them....very interested now.

I really can't wait either for the WD leak or Saturday.....whichever comes first, I really need to know if this is happening lol!

[Jacob29]

Just popped in to say that my friend just rang me.

He was at Games Workshop and the staff used to words "Its already happened" (no idea what this is).

As well as when he went to buy some spray paint they asked him if he was coming next saturday for White Dwarf as its going to be special.

When asked "is it Daemons?" he said "maybe"...


So seems to be conclusive that Daemons will probably be in WD this Saturday.

[Learn2Eel]

Interesting......I will wait until I see the pictures though, I don't want to set myself up for Daemons and get disappointed by...well I dunno lol. We'll see soon enough!

You know....I really wouldn't be displeased if Matt Ward turns out to be the WH40K codex author. You know he'll make the codex balanced, for one, and he'll give it a lot of new and quirky rules, i.e. why I think Fateweaver will end up being two level-four psykers or something. We'll see though. Hopefully he doesn't turn it into Warhammer Daemons of Chaos though....the last thing we need is a broken army to ruin 6th Edition.

[david5th]

Seems i started a Daemon force at the right time, 2 unit in total - Skulltaker and a unit of Bloodletters. Just going to wait.

[Learn2Eel]

Via a member over on DakkaDakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/470602.page);


New Range Items

Warhammer: Daemons of Chaos

96 page full colour, hardback Warhammer Armies book

Codex: Chaos Daemons

· 104 page full colour, hardback Codex

Chaos Daemons: Plague Drones of Nurgle

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes three Plague Drones that are multi-posable and offer collectors a large variety when assembling them

Chaos Daemons: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch/Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes either a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch or a Herald of Tzeentch on a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

Chaos Daemons: Blood Throne of Khorne/Skull Cannon of Khorne

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes either a Blood Throne of Khorne or a Skull Cannon of Khorne

Herald of Nurgle

This Clampack contains a new plastic Herald of Nurgle on a sculpted base
New Finecast Releases

Herald of Khorne

A clampack that contains one highly detailed Citadel Finecast resin miniature



Herald of Slaanesh

A clampack that contains one highly detailed Citadel Finecast resin miniature




Available While Stocks Last
These Items are highly limited, please request the quantity you require and we will supply you as close to this number as we can.

Warhammer Battle Magic: Daemons of Chaos

A deck of 21 cards that contains the 6 spells for the Lores of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh as well as their signature spells

Psychic Powers: Chaos Daemons

A deck of 12 cards that contains the Primaris powers and 3 Psychic powers for the Lores Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle as well

Looks like this is happening! Yay!
I do genuinely hope the Daemons get much better psychic powers than what Chaos Space Marines got....I still dread the Lore of Tzeentch :(

Interesting points have been raised; daemonic gifts were one of our only sources of ranged anti-tank. As well, how will Dark Excommunication work now? I'm guessing Daemonic Gifts are still there, but just wargear. Hmmmm......methinks this codex is going to be hugely different.

[Learn2Eel]

Yay!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=7900032


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HeYgzDvqOK4

For those wondering about the 7th February upload date of the video, one of the blips on the UI shows the video was a "only users with a link can view this video", hence, they've basically had it their for a month but not shared the link.

[Defenestratus]

OH MY GOD!

IT'S HAPPENING!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=7900032


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For those wondering about the 7th February upload date of the video, one of the blips on the UI shows the video was a "only users with a link can view this video", hence, they've basically had it their for a month but not shared the link.

Keep your pants on there bud! :P

[Learn2Eel]

Haha that's just my initial reaction, I'm fine now :) I'm just really giddy, I can't think of another army I've been looking forward to more. Also, some good news for a change :D

Heh, change. Ah, never mind. I'm just really interested in how they change; by rights, they should be by far the most overhauled army for 6th Ed. Whereas most armies either needed small boosts or a smattering of new units, Daemons really need a rework from the ground up.

[DrLove42]

Now just hope its 40K and Fantasy, not just one :P

[Caitsidhe]

Haha that's just my initial reaction, I'm fine now :) I'm just really giddy, I can't think of another army I've been looking forward to more. Also, some good news for a change :D

Depends on the book really... I was seriously looking forward to my CSM book too. Eh. I'm glad the book is out because I'd like to see the Flamer Bomb go away and see a new type of army go forward.

[Learn2Eel]

Agreed to both.

Hopefully it turns out well, though I guess from the sounds of it they've invested a lot more into the codex than the CSM one. And yes, I'd rather Tzeentch Daemons not be the new flavour of the month. Balanced daemon armies, we can only hope!

[The Sovereign]

I'm a'cite! :D

[KrewL RaiN]

*does the happy dance across all 5 pages of this thread* omgomgomgomg xD

[Mr Mystery]

Pics! Pics or I'll arrange for Nurglings to infest your bunghole!

[Learn2Eel]

Having taken a step back and looked at Tasty's rumours, plus the release list, I've been really thinking about just how they will do this codex.
Like...ok, fair warning, this is a lot of discussion about rumours;

1) Our Troops, over-costed as they were, had to rely on deep-striking so as to save themselves a turn or two of shooting. Random and horrible as those deep strike rules were, it kind of was a saving grace for some units - ala Pink Horrors. Remove that, our infantry need a way to get to the enemy quickly. Seeing as there doesn't seem to be any transports, this makes me think the only way they can and should go is turn our Troops choices into cheap hordes. Ergo, 6 point Daemonettes, 7 point Plaguebearers, 8 point Bloodletters, 9 point Pink Horrors. Maybe with some slight debuffs - which have already been provided by the apparent inclusion of daemonic instability instead of Fearless. That might sound OP to many, but not to me - the reason being, our Troops have no real way of dealing with tanks, and only one of them has an ok shooting attack, the rest don't shoot at all. Without transports or a reliable way to get into combat, and with no real durability, they need large numbers to get there. Hence, making them really cheap and allowing players to take hordes of them - which fits the fluff anyway as Daemons attack in massed numbers, not small elite units like Alessio would have you believe.

2) Psychic powers. Now, what we don't know is how much of a capacity daemonic gifts will still play - my bet is they will remain and be our 'wargear'. But how many of the old ones are being turned into psychic powers? How many of our ranged weapons will become psychic powers? Take Flamers for instance - will their Breath of Chaos/Warpfire be psychic powers? Would that be more balanced? Could we be seeing the first inclusion of the 'Brotherhood of Psykers' rule? Given Pink Horrors are treated as a single mage in Fantasy, and that the codex author may very well be Matt Ward, this isn't entirely out of the question - and would make sense if indeed our Troops were dropped to those low prices. How do they balance it though? Will all ranged weapons be psychic powers? Will Daemons be immune to Perils of the Warp? How will Fateweaver work? Will he be a single mastery level 4 psyker or two mastery level 4 psykers ala Fantasy? How much will we pay/lose for psykers over daemonic gifts?

3) Greater Daemons. Everyone agrees these were over-costed and not really as strong as they should be. Given we are apparently losing Eternal Warrior, Fearless and the like, what will become of Greater Daemons? Will they be much cheaper to compensate, or have their stats buffed to much higher levels - or both? With no more daemonic assault (apparently), how will they reliably get up close and personal? Whilst this wouldn't be an issue for Bloodthirsters/Lords of Change as they have wings, a Keeper of Secrets will still be relying on run moves, whilst a Slow and Purposeful Great Unclean One has to slowly slog up the field. Will GUO's be a lot more durable? Following the Chaos Marines "Daemon of 'X'" rules, I expect they will get Shrouded. Still, they already have high invulnerable saves right? Unless we lead into....

4) Standardised 5+ invulnerable saves army-wide. Given the Daemon USR in the rulebook, could this be the save all daemons in the codex get? Will Greater Daemons/Tzeentch Daemons still have an improved invulnerable save? This would require a lot of re-costing; though obviously the entire codex needs re-costing.

5) Loss of Eternal Warrior and Fearless. I don't mind the former, provided we get a special rule against force weapons (hello Nemesis weapons with two chances to outright kill you). It doesn't even help most units anyway. The latter is interesting, especially if they are re-introducing daemonic instability ala 5th Edition No Retreat! wounds. Will Daemons be able to run off the table, or get Pinned? Will they be able to go to ground? Though Daemons tend to win combat, the problem is getting there - our units tend to be thinned down a lot when they get to combat, their effectiveness is reduced, and thus No Retreat! wounds would essentially be handed out more often. This leads back into making everything a lot cheaper.

6) Daemonic Assault. This is the big one. It changes everything about the army - starting the army on the board means less random, less risk. Units should drop in price considerably, especially ones designed to best use those rules. This should also, combined with the loss of Eternal Warrior, nerf Flamers and Screamers considerably. Our assault units lack transports, and without deep strike, though they have a reliable deployment they are no closer to their quarry. No more alpha strike, which means our units either need to be a lot cheaper to take in bigger numbers or they need their durability improved in some way.

7) Daemon Princes. Like CSM Daemon Princes? Statline and cost, yes. My bet is that their options will be a lot different, barring the psyker upgrades. I.e. crazy Tzeentch psyker-specific stuff, Nurgle missiles, Slaanesh Pavane, etc. Maybe no power armour, instead Khorne ones get iron armour? Interested to say the least.

8) Independent Characters/CSM. Tasty says our characters and CSM characters will be able to join each others' units. That, to me, would be fantastic on so many levels. It would also fit with Daemons deploying on the board normally. What say you to the infamous Khorne Juggernaught Chaos Lord attached to a unit of Bloodcrushers? Or Epidemius rocking up with Plague Marines? How about a jump-pack equipped Sorcerer rocking the Burning Brand paired up with Flamers of Tzeentch? Hell yes!

All that comes to mind at the moment.....so much to think about. I am really worried/excited about how they will handle the changes, if indeed these changes are happening.

[Learn2Eel]

Rumours about the Bloodthirster/Great Unclean One and more via Faeit 212 (http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/chaos-daemons-rules-for-blood-thirsters.html?showComment=1361255808155#c70814894 56541873650). Take with salt!


Earlier today we had details arrive on the upcoming Chaos Daemons codex that is due for pre-orders on the 23rd of this month. Now we have some rumor bits featuring the Blood Thirster, Great Unclean one, Bloodletter, and Daemonettes.

Please remember that these are still rumors until we get the codex in our hands. However we are getting close, so I would assume we are getting more defined information.

via Matt (not his real name) from the Faeit 212 inbox
Now that GW have released their teaser trailer I can give you the big scoop of information I have been holding. This information has only been told to a view of us and you must realise that is why we had to wait for GW to make their move. So this is what I know in the way of rules, stats and points - their is a view upgrades but nothing to amazing.

I will start with the big daemons -
The bloodthirsters : 280pts
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
10 4 9 7 5 5 5 10 5+
Daemonic gifts: blood axe, armour of terror, whip of destruction
special rules: daemon, daemonic flight, furious charge, rage,blood without end
blood axe - user gains a previously lost wound he has lost earlier in game for every kill he makes on a 4+
armour of terror - user gains a 2+ save and 5+ invulnerable. The bearer gains a 4+ feel no pain if the weapons AP in lower than 3
whip of destruction - 12'' shooting attack - strength 8 AP 4 rending
daemon - see page 36
daemonic flight- see chaos special rules
furious charge & rage - rule book (P41&37)

blood without end- the bloodthirsters gain +d6 attacks on the charge and makes another strike at initiative step 1 for every wound he causes.
These extra strikes do not produce any further strikes.

Great unclean one : 260pts
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 4 6 8 6 1 4 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: plague sword of death, bloated body, aura of decay
special rules: daemon, slow and purposeful,my master gifts all,shrouded
plague sword of death - wounds everything on 2+ with an ap of 3 - turns characters into spawn
bloated body - the daemon has a 4+ armour save and a 3+ feel no pain on any weapon AP 5 or below.
aura of decay - the great unclean one has defensive and assault grenades and causes all enemy weapons to count as -1 strength (I believe this is ranged and
close combat)

daemon - page 36
slow and purposeful - page 42
shrouded- page 41

my master gifts all - pick an enemy and friendly unit at the beginning of the game. The enemy unit gains -1 toughness and strength while a friendly plaguebearers count as +1 strength and +1 to there feel no pain rolls.

troop units :
bloodletters: 14pts each
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 0 5 4 1 4 2 10 6+
daemonic gifts: blood swords (strength: user AP: 4)
special rules: daemon, furious charge,rage
unit type: infantry
Number/squad: 5-20

Daemonettes of slannesh: 12pts each
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 0 4 3 1 6 2 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: rending claws
special rules: fleet, make them suffer (+1 added to strength - already included)
Unit type: infantry
Number/squad: 5-15


Wargear:
tzeench gift of betrayal -50pts (one use)
pick an enemy independent character at random, that model or unit must pass a leadership test with a -4 penalty or be removed after being sucked into the warp for tzeench amusement, models from codex: space marine, dark angels,black templars,grey knights,space wolves,blood angels take a -2 penalty instead to represent their resistance from the dark gods temptations.

nurgle's blessing (30pts)
pick a nurgle unit in your army, that model/unit gains +1 to their feel no pain roll.

sword of a thousand souls: 45pts
the bearer must charge every enemy unit and must challenge but gain +2d6 extra attacks on the charge.

dance of death: 40pts
pick an enemy unit at the beginning of the game, that unit must roll a initiative test every turn of the game or is under the control of the daemon player. The unit under control may charge friendly models but cannot move off the board or into any piece of terrain that can cause hard to the model. If the enemy passes the initiative test more than three times during the battle then the dance has been removed for the remainder of the game.

Some of these rules sound down-right crazy, as in, ridiculously 'what the hell just happened!' crazy for your opponent. Oh, and Bloodthirsters......:eek: If those are correct, Bloodthirsters are absolute murder machines! If those Greater Daemon rules are anything to go by - the Great Unclean One sounds ridiculously good too - I can't wait to see what the Lord of Change/Keeper of Secrets will be like!

Also notice for the 'daemon' rule it references "page 36". Unless that is referring to the rulebook, could it still be that Daemons have their own unique rules to go along with the main rulebook USR?

I have an inkling this is a Matt Ward codex, not because I think it is OP, just the crazy rules...that or it is Jeremy Vetock.
Like, that Tzeentch's Gift of Betrayal? Seriously, what the!? Hey Eldrad! Bye Eldrad! Whoosh!

That is of course assuming these are true....something tells me they aren't, but we will see.

[eldargal]

Didn't pay attention to the wonky formatting and thought we were geting T6 W daemonettes for a second.:rolleyes:

The Tzeentch thing is screwed up though, Space Marines get a boost against it but the race that has fought Chaos longer than the IoM has existed and has psychic technology rendering them almost immune to Chaotic psychic attacks don't? Not to mention the whole structure of eldar society (the Path system) is about negating the temptation of Chaos. **** that.

Given that they aren't even up for advance order yet and WD hasn't been leaked I think these are nonsense. At least, I hope so

[Learn2Eel]

When I look at them closely, they do seem to be fake. Look at the names for the wargear - "Plague Sword of Death", "Whip of Destruction", "Armour of Terror", "Blood Swords" (as opposed to Hellblades). They sound nothing like usual GW names. Also, what's with the 6+ armour saves when the entire army has 5+ invulnerable saves?

If the Bloodthirster and Great Unclean One rules were accurate - minus the names - I'd be very happy though. Just the promise of having insanely powerful Fantasy-esque Greater Daemons at an affordable cost is so darn tantalising.....

[White Tiger88]

What is this a playable Greater Daemon? What is the sorcery!!!! I would love this stuff to be true but i know its to good to be.......(If it is though i want to see the new Slaanesh sculpt....I am personally hoping for a kinky boob filled monster!)

[eldargal]

Good point, in the current book the profiles all include the 5+ save which matches the daemons rule.

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah I'm filing under 'too good to be true' for now.

Just seems too much!

[Learn2Eel]

No doubt though that if the entire codex is like this though.....well, I think 'balance' might just take a back-seat. Honestly though, and remembering that I favour game balance over all else, I must say it would be a welcome change for an alien army to be at the top of the pile.

Oh wait just remembered Necrons *doh*. :p

[White Tiger88]

No doubt though that if the entire codex is like this though.....well, I think 'balance' might just take a back-seat. Honestly though, and remembering that I favour game balance over all else, I must say it would be a welcome change for an alien army to be at the top of the pile.

Oh wait just remembered Necrons *doh*. :p

Hey necron's are space zombies.......not really "Aliens" more.......Angry Possessed robots?

*cough*

Anyhow i want some Slaanesh Info! BOOBS FOR THE BOOB GOD! oh and blood for the Blood GOD! khorne is shinny.

[eldargal]

Necrons are alien space zombies, so still aliens.

[Learn2Eel]

Anyone else think some of those rules seem tailor-made to make Necrons cry? Dance of Death is ridiculous, as is the Gift of Tzeentch thing - both of which would cause serious trouble for Necrons. Seems silly but, I dunno, if it is Ward, he could very well be trying to outdo his previous work or at least design an army to maybe break their meta dominance?

[Aldavaer]

Tzeentch's Gift of betrayal looks OP, for 50 points you get a power that has at least a 50% chance of removing any non SM IC from the game that could be 200 points +.

[eldargal]

Anyone else think some of those rules seem tailor-made to make Necrons cry? Dance of Death is ridiculous, as is the Gift of Tzeentch thing - both of which would cause serious trouble for Necrons. Seems silly but, I dunno, if it is Ward, he could very well be trying to outdo his previous work or at least design an army to maybe break their meta dominance?

I think they aretailor made to make the internet cry, someone is trolling the community and it isn't GW.:rolleyes:

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah, again, I do think they are fake. Still.....if they are correct.....
Well at least we will know where the inspiration for the recent Flamers and Screamers came from!

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed. And as for a bonus for being 'incorruptible'...

Tzeentch! Gimme your soul!
Necron! Welcome to it mate. Though to be fair, I've not seen it for oh, several million years.
Tzeentch! Bugger!

[DrLove42]

The Tzeentch gift thing sounds disgustingly bent. 50 points to remove a 200 point model on a 6+ on 2 dice? And why are loyalists resistant? Why not Tau who have zero warp interest, or Necrons who have no soul, or Chaos who are used to deamons as well!

The bloodthirster seems disgusting as well. Expensive but will just smash through any army. You get 1 turn to kill him, then he gets into combat, kills 10 things and regains 5 wounds.

And the GUO? Creating spawn with every kill with a fleshbane low AP weapon? Urgh

And Bloodletters got hit even harder. Not even AP3 anymore? Is there a point in having them?

[Learn2Eel]

I'm now convinced that either these aren't true or they are play-test rumours. Too much ridiculousness (the Dance/Traitor wargear, greater daemons) for one codex without even looking at other stuff!

[DrLove42]

Yeah maybe. As a point the GUO has an AP3 weapon. Why? Hes a MC so is always AP2....

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Tzeentch! Gimme your soul!


No.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh go on.

Please?

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah maybe. As a point the GUO has an AP3 weapon. Why? Hes a MC so is always AP2....

To be fair, it could be a generic/artefact weapon available to Nurgle Heralds as well. Something leads me to believe that if this stuff is accurate, then the Greater Daemons don't come with all that stuff in their base cost.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh go on.

Please?

No.

[Learn2Eel]

Why?

[Mr Mystery]

No.

Tosspot :(

[Learn2Eel]

Tzeentch out-smarts everyo....

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!

[Caitsidhe]

I recall how far off the CSM rumors were (and some of them were of this nature) from the book. We have the other rumor, for example, that Winged Daemon Princes are moving slots. If that one and these insane ones were BOTH true, it would be problematic would it not? I'm neither for or against these rumors. I'm just saying (as others have here) that I suspect this is just someone trying to get some weird thrill by making stuff up.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Tzeentch out-smarts everyo....

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!

It's all part of the plan.

We love it when a plan comes together.

[Mr Mystery]

I recall how far off the CSM rumors were (and some of them were of this nature) from the book. We have the other rumor, for example, that Winged Daemon Princes are moving slots. If that one and these insane ones were BOTH true, it would be problematic would it not? I'm neither for or against these rumors. I'm just saying (as others have here) that I suspect this is just someone trying to get some weird thrill by making stuff up.

Indeed. Bloodthirster seems all but unstoppable, especially given he's now a winged monstrous creature and thus entirely likely a flier. Realistically, he would never fail to make his points back. Between 6's to hit, and a 2+ save when I do? Yeah would have to be exceedingly jammy to drop him (not account for the wounding roll, that's 1 in 36 just to pink him. And at S6? 1 in 72 chance...shyeah!) before he gets stuck into combat and beats my army to death with their mechanical innards!

Names are off (but not really saying much to be honest, GW have a curious track record between awesome and dodgy names!) but most of all? Just way....WAY too hard. I mean they're rivalling the FW Greater Daemons.

Nurgle gift squishifying one enemy unit, and buffing all your Plaguebearers? Pull the other one, it's not covered in sores and pustules.

And again, Marines (of most stripes I think, didn't read it all that thoroughly, and only the silly stuff stuck) being somehow less corruptible than say, a Necron (got no soul) Tyranid (got no interest) Eldar (yeah, not falling for that again, Orks (but dere's a good fight 'ere! Zog off!' Really? Really really? GW are never quite that daft with power rules!

Defo a wishlist someone has decided to pass off as real.

[Caitsidhe]

Indeed. Bloodthirster seems all but unstoppable, especially given he's now a winged monstrous creature and thus entirely likely a flier. Realistically, he would never fail to make his points back. Between 6's to hit, and a 2+ save when I do? Yeah would have to be exceedingly jammy to drop him (not account for the wounding roll, that's 1 in 36 just to pink him. And at S6? 1 in 72 chance...shyeah!) before he gets stuck into combat and beats my army to death with their mechanical innards!

Yep. And if the rumor about them becoming another slot (say Fast Attack) were true... think about how many would be on the board. :) While I have no doubt that the new Daemons book will have some interesting (and a little crazy) stuff, I suspect the CSM Daemon Prince is probably the best guide we have for how similar things will appear.


Names are off (but not really saying much to be honest, GW have a curious track record between awesome and dodgy names!) but most of all? Just way....WAY too hard. I mean they're rivalling the FW Greater Daemons.

Yeah. I wondered about that too. Since Forge World is still part of their company and I expect they do at least "talk" from time to time, I can't imagine they would be this much out of synchronicity with each other.


And again, Marines (of most stripes I think, didn't read it all that thoroughly, and only the silly stuff stuck) being somehow less corruptible than say, a Necron (got no soul) Tyranid (got no interest) Eldar (yeah, not falling for that again, Orks (but dere's a good fight 'ere! Zog off!' Really? Really really? GW are never quite that daft with power rules!

Well... let's be fair... they ARE sometimes that daft... but I agree with you here. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they can't be THIS stupid. :D It also begs the question of Daemon on Daemon action. One would think that one Daemon God couldn't grab the favored tools of another without first taking out the other God. And would such a thing work on Fateweaver? I wouldn't think it should. :) Also... if this is about temptation... wouldn't the Daemon God of pleasure have been more likely to be the one offering? It just doesn't make any sense. We agree utterly.

[Bigred]

And Prices...

40K: Codex Chaos Daemons $49.50
WFB: Daemons of Chaos Army Book $49.50
WFB: Chaos Daemons Battalion/Battleforce $115.00
WFB: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch $40.00
WFB: Plague Drones of Nurgle $60.00
WFB: Blood Throne of Khorne $40.00
WFB: Herald of Nurgle $25.00

[White Tiger88]

NO pricing for the greater daemons? :(

[Lexington]

Pics HO!

http://plastickrak.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/new-daemons-pictures.html

A pretty unfortunate lot, to my eyes, but make your own judgements.

[harveydent]

UGH. Since when did Orks design models? And they seriously want to charge you $25 for that Nurgle herald? No thanks.

[Gir]

Seems adequtly Daemony to me. I like what I've seen so far.

[The Sovereign]

Disappointed in the Nurgle flies and Khorne chariots, but the Tzeentch herald on chariot looks good, thankfully.

[Learn2Eel]

Remember, they are still low-quality shots of models that usually look a lot better once they've been assembled and painted by other people. The same thing was said about a lot of earlier releases, but they looked so much better in person.

But for initial impressions, I like the Heralds and the Tzeentch chariots especially. The Plague Drones look cool, though I think the Plaguebearers on top look a little off. The Khorne Chariot and Cannon are a bit vague to make out properly, but they look ok.

Overall, I like it. I just wish there was also an image of the codex cover, I can't wait to see what artwork they went with! Also so we can find out who the codex author is!

[Learn2Eel]

Some semblance of sanity restored by the way - a source on Faeit 212 (http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/chaos-daemons-deployment-hints-and.html) has confirmed those earlier rumours are (surprise) false.



via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
For your site:
I just thought you'd want to know those Daemon rumors you posted up are fakes.

Greater Daemons are stronger than last edition. Troops are about the same and a little bit cheaper here and there.

All daemons can deep strike or can start on the board and when you reserve units for deep strike they kinda come in waves, it's similar but new at the same time.

That sounds great! So now we have the option to deep strike or start on the board! Yay! Hopefully this set is correct lol. Also, nice to hear the greater daemons are stronger, our Troops keep their power level and are cheaper. Neat! Also interested to see how that wave system works, I guess it now makes a lot more sense to take icons on your units - if they keep those - as you can have durable units foot-slog up and then have assault/fragile units deep-strike down without scatter.

Also related to the leaked images, anyone else think the 'Blood Throne' is a transport for Bloodletters? Just looks odd with three Bloodletters on it....and none of them pulling it. Would certainly make them a lot more viable!

[KrewL RaiN]

Also related to the leaked images, anyone else think the 'Blood Throne' is a transport for Bloodletters? Just looks odd with three Bloodletters on it....and none of them pulling it. Would certainly make them a lot more viable!

I want to convert it so that its pulled by Juggernauts. I think it will make it look 100% better. I am crossing fingers everything is balanced out. My Khorne Flakes want some love :< I do like the sounds of optional deep striking.

[White Tiger88]

Where the hell is all the Slaanesh? With out boob demons it just not warhammer!

[Nabterayl]

One of those pics looks like a Herald of Slaanesh, so check that equality box. Slaanesh already got its chariot models, so check that. Looks like Nurgle's getting some kind of cavalry, which nobody else is ... but Slaanesh and Khorne already had cavalry, so ... check that equality box too.

[White Tiger88]

One of those pics looks like a Herald of Slaanesh, so check that equality box. Slaanesh already got its chariot models, so check that. Looks like Nurgle's getting some kind of cavalry, which nobody else is ... but Slaanesh and Khorne already had cavalry, so ... check that equality box too.

But i want to see my new Greater Titty Daemon!

[Deadlift]

Not keen on most of the models, but then I have never really liked Daemons much anyway. BUT (that's a big but) I love the Nurgle models. Combine them with the earlier nurgle model releases and I may have a new project on the go.
Don't care if it would be competative or not, I love me some Grandfather Nurgle.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I want to convert it so that its pulled by Juggernauts. I think it will make it look 100% better. I am crossing fingers everything is balanced out. My Khorne Flakes want some love :< I do like the sounds of optional deep striking.

You sir, are a genius.

[White Tiger88]

You sir, are a genius.

Your right he is! i think i might just have to do that :D

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The flames from the tzeentch chariot kit could be cut up and modelled to make plastic Horrors that look more like they are in a constant flux of change, especially if you sculpt random eyes and limbs onto them. Think something like this : http://lovecraftiancreations.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/shoggoth.jpg

[DrLove42]

I think my problem with the chariot is the paintscheme.

It doesn't look like ethereal fire, it look like its being attacked by demonic seaweed

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

demonic seaweed is awesome though! I think ill like the kit for the parts in it, but the actual models it's meant to make don't appeal to me personally.

[eldargal]

Yep, it says seaweed to me also. GW needs to get its act together with paintjobs, they are superbly executed but do the models no justice. The amount of times you see people changing their mind on a model based on an alternate paintjob is quite ridiculous.

[Psychosplodge]

Leaked picture of a Daemon prince riding a pegasus

3671
3672

[Bigred]

I'm starting to worry about the designer's direction these days.

Continuing a trend with Dark Angels through Warriors of Chaos - amazing technical production of an intricately detailed lacklustre design.

It would seem that at some point GW decided that every millimeter of surface needs to be filled with detail.

While I appreciate that the Daemonic range should be outlandish and oddly proportioned - we are just not seeing the level of quality design work as in the past.

These are no Dark Eldar, or Coven Throne.

Why is it that Kingdom Death with 30K in seed money can make some minis that really unsettle a viewer while GW with millions cannot - for their one true "horror" range - Daemons.

[Deadlift]

I think BigRed that the design studio have the problem in that they have to design models that are both demonic, but that can't be too scary because of the younger players and their parents.
Models from Kingdom Death as you mentioned are really disturbing and beautiful in equal measure, but
I can't see GW going in that route with Daemons because of their wider audience and age range of players.

[eldargal]

I'm starting to worry about the designer's direction these days.

Continuing a trend with Dark Angels through Warriors of Chaos - amazing technical production of an intricately detailed lacklustre design.

It would seem that at some point GW decided that every millimeter of surface needs to be filled with detail.

While I appreciate that the Daemonic range should be outlandish and oddly proportioned - we are just not seeing the level of quality design work as in the past.

These are no Dark Eldar, or Coven Throne.

Why is it that Kingdom Death with 30K in seed money can make some minis that really unsettle a viewer while GW with millions cannot - for their one true "horror" range - Daemons.

I think daemons have always suffered from that, though. FW and the Diaz daemonettes aside daemons have always seemed quite silly to me. These new releases seem quite in character in that regard. The only daemon range I generally like is Slaanesh, even their recent combi-harvester kits had a sort of perverted feminine look to them. The rest always seem cartoony.

I still think larger pictures might change opinions of a lot of them, and different paintjobs. The Seaweed Chariot of Tzeentch in particular.

[Caitsidhe]

I think daemons have always suffered from that, though. FW and the Diaz daemonettes aside daemons have always seemed quite silly to me. These new releases seem quite in character in that regard. The only daemon range I generally like is Slaanesh, even their recent combi-harvester kits had a sort of perverted feminine look to them. The rest always seem cartoony.

I still think larger pictures might change opinions of a lot of them, and different paintjobs. The Seaweed Chariot of Tzeentch in particular.

I always think of that bizarre villain in the Powerpuff Girls whenever I see the Slaanesh range.

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/HIM

I shouldn't think of this and I don't like the way the models seem to push this direction.

[eldargal]

She looks like one of the early daemonettes aka bald crab girls.

[Caitsidhe]

She looks like one of the early daemonettes aka bald crab girls.

Yep and the name of that villain is "Him." One would presume the gender is male... I think. :D

[eldargal]

I didn't notice the name, just clicked the link and looked at the picture.:p

Codex cover from Faeit:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jqbWTh-icjY/USVBOuA84eI/AAAAAAAAT3M/cBvIURXeEqE/s1600/IMG_2195+-+Copy+(2).JPG

Battalion:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Yc_Iz7eM9MI/USVBOuqCEGI/AAAAAAAAT3U/vN9uUFXlDcI/s1600/IMG_2197.JPG

I like the cover art quite a bit.

Incidentally if anyone is still overly cynical about rumours, Hastings said back in October/November last year that daemons would go up for advance order in february.

[Learn2Eel]

Hastings has been spot on with his schedule aside from Dark Angels being before Warriors of Chaos. He also called the new Plague-Drones. Makes me excited for High Elves and Tau, who I believe are supposed to be up for pre-order in April and May.

It must be said; that Codex: Chaos Daemons artwork is the best artwork I've seen on a hard-cover codex from either edition. It is amazing! The Fantasy one is pretty good too.

[miteyheroes]

What happened to the new Greater Daemons? And the Furies? And the Daemon-Engine?

Hopefully we'll see them next month instead?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I was kinda thinking they'd do 4 kits (dont really count the hero clampacks..) so I'm surprised they didnt add in one of the 4 greater daemons there (keeper of secrets would of been my choice, so every god gets a plastic kit with this army release). I was definietly hoping the Furies duel-kit rumour was true too, since there is a huge lack in undivided stuff. Maybe next time.

Anyhow, the cover art is nice, I am liking the new style of codex covers - I wasnt too impressed with the 5th ed ones, often felt they looked too "busy" at times too, these more simple, stylish 6th ed covers are a great improvement I think.

[Kirsten]

GW with millions cannot - for their one true "horror" range - Daemons.

Daemons are not a horror range though, they are a wierd freaky range. Like the conversation in the fantasy thread, daemons are not lovecraftian entities. Undead are the horror range, necrons are the sinister range in 40k, daemons aren't.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nice!


I kinda want to make a Lovecraftian counts as Daemon army. I think it'd be sweet.

[Lord Krungharr]

I have some Chaos Marine Terminators and Possessed (and Helbrute) that have tentacle 'beards', so I call them my Heirs of Yuggoth, and thematically they work well for Nurgle and Tzeentch Marks. I could see Daemons being similarly effective in that scheme; though since the Warp is manifest through psychic/emotional inputs, I don't think anything besides despair and change would be in tune with the spaces between spaces. They are cold and indifferent, not hot and angry or decadent.

[eldargal]

Daemons are not a horror range though, they are a wierd freaky range. Like the conversation in the fantasy thread, daemons are not lovecraftian entities. Undead are the horror range, necrons are the sinister range in 40k, daemons aren't.
Yup. For the benefit of people who didn't read the fantasy thread:

Daemons have always been baroque and cartoony, they have never been horrific. Wanting horrific daemons is understandable but that is were the glory of 'counts as' comes in. GW have never taken a lovecraftian approach to daemons and I doubt they ever will. Hoping that they will do so is setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not saying this to defend teh aesthetic particularly, I for one don't care for the Nurgle and Khorne aesthetics (particularly Nurgle) and tolerate Tzeentch though I do quite like the Slaansh range bar the stupid Keeper of Secrets.

[Learn2Eel]

From what I can gather, Phil Kelly is the author of 40K Daemons, and Ward has re-done Fantasy Daemons. Also seems like Daemons beat Space Marines in their battle report, a feat Chaos Space Marines didn't manage :cool:

And no I don't have the WD and haven't talked to anyone who has it, just been trawling through different forums. From the sounds of it though this actually makes melee-centric Daemon armies viable again (i.e. non-Tzeentch/non-Screamer armies). Apparently a Herald of Khorne butchered a Terminator Librarian as well :eek:

Don't take this as fact though could very well be wrong/misinterpreted. Still, lots to get excited for.

[eldargal]

It's fake:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ar4YFfYsSgg/USXdMewlOeI/AAAAAAAAT68/jZWp-nVnSOI/s400/IMG_2224.JPG

[Learn2Eel]

Yup. Good stuff.
Had a lot of people convinced for a while there. I was kinda split down the middle, it was a very convincing fake.

Well, sanity restored! Now I'm much more excited for the codex! But....it does make one wonder what Ward is working on....
Also, Kelly is doing a lot of codices. I'm just putting it aloud; maybe Kelly isn't doing Eldar? That would make three codices by the same guy in just over a year, mind you, Kelly is my favourite author but that's a lot of work!
I'm hoping there are a lot of awesome rare artefacts/daemonic gifts available to heralds and greater daemons. I mean, the Khorne Herald they were using did kill a terminator Librarian, so maybe they have AP2 at Initiative weapons? That or daemons - or maybe just certain units - still have Eternal Warrior!

I'm so excited :D I can't wait to get my hands on the book! I can't see it being anything but an improvement to the previous one, which is already a big plus.

Someone over on Dakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/660/470602.page)has been talking about the rules;


Skull Cannon -- which fires flaming skulls across the battelfield -- is S8, range 36" APdoesn'tgetthrougpowerarmour.

Fly beasties are poisoned 3+ attacks, with I think 3A and W each.

.. seems they might be "jet pack cavalry" ..? Not quite sure how that works as such or if they have to choose a type or what ?

Demon Princes appear to he HQs.

There are various "loci" which you can buy for herlads, characters etc etc. These are all of varying cost and power....

... wait for it !...

.... and ( some ?) ... here we go..... ..... let you roll on chart(s) to see what powers or abilities they generate !

From what I can tell the Skull Cannon is AP4, meaning it will absolutely reave non-Space Marine infantry. Anyone notice a theme of S8 AP4 following through recent codices (Hades Autocannons, Psybolt Autocannons, etc). The Nurgle Plague-Drones actually sound pretty good, another post I saw said they were brutal in the game. Daemon Princes as HQs is sure to turn a few people off, unless they do switch Force Organization slots when given Wings as suggested in earlier rumours. Would seem sill to add yet another unit to an already bloated HQ section, especially when the Heavy Support section is relatively bare. Seems an odd way of reducing the number of anti-flyer stuff we can take. Of course, we don't know the fully story as far as fliers/anti-fliers go, though I doubt we will be restricted to just two flying monstrous creatures below 2000 points.

Loci from Fantasy! Yay! They are random though, but I'm guessing they are all beneficial. Probably like a D3 chart or something.

[Learn2Eel]

According to someone over on a Daemon website, there is a Daemon chart you roll on at the start of each shooting phase (friendly and enemy?) called the "Warp Storm Table". You roll 2D6 and get a random effect. Maybe this is how Kelly has decided to balance out the low saves/Toughness of most of out units versus gunline armies? If it is true, then that is a pretty darn cool idea.

[BatMarine]

If that's true it would sell me on the Demons, I always loved the random table wide effects type game play. Death Worlds chart, Daemon Worlds in Crusade of fire, Whatever that Space Wolf Rune Priest special character's name is... But honestly I don't see it happening unless it's very mild effects......

[SeismicGhost]

Well, I think Daemons are the horror range in 40k for this simple reason -
No Necrons have the Fear rule, while every single model in the Daemon army does.
They are horrifying soul devouring monsters from beyond the veil of reality who come here only to destroy life. Necrons can be reasoned with. (Especially with the fluff changes of the more recent editions.)

I definitely agree that the Daemons are not Lovecraftian. The Tyranids are Lovecraftian if anything is.


The horror range model thing isn't really comparable across Fantasy and 40K though, as Vampire Counts are for sure the gothic horror range in fantasy, while Tomb Kings (whom the Necrons mirror) are kind of a different thing altogether. They're like, an immortal undying empire as opposed to ravening undead hordes. Vampire Counts don't have a 40K mirror really.

[Caitsidhe]

Every single Daemon model has the fear rule.
I don't think any Necrons do.

Daemons are the horror range in 40k.
(Although I'll concede that they're not Lovecraftian. The Tyranids are Lovecraftian if anything is.)


It's not really comparable to fantasy because Vampire Counts is the horror range in fantasy, while Tomb Kings (whom the Necrons mirror) are kind of a different thing altogether.

Unless it is Fear caused by the notion that one is being turned into a Toon.

[SeismicGhost]

Then again, if you're going by fluff, fiction and RPG extended universe standard, Space Marines are easily the stuff of dystopian horror as well. The future in this game is supremely bleak and the very fabric of reality faces annihilation on a regular basis, so much so that humans have been forced to become the horrific heart-eating sleepless monsters that Space Marines are in order to survive.

Maybe Blood Angels are the Vampire Counts mirror.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Nah, Tyranids are a fairly common Military sci-fi trope, read practically any book from that genre with "bugs" and it's always the same hive-mind or HR giger ripoff. Guess Heinleinian would be the more apt term for them, or "Cold warrior bugs". They don't look or act alien enough for Loveraft either. Military races in the mythos are way more weirder and less understandable, like Flying polyps : http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/574623_10151097747944364_364851790_n.jpg

[memnarch_129]

Just looked through the Daemon section on GW website and noticed that the Codex is missing from the army essentials section. Dont know if this had been said before so figured Id add it to the discussion. Ive loved Daemons since they got their own book and hope that with some changes they make ALL varieties of Daemons (Slaanesh/Khorne more so then the other two) viable to play.

[AkimboGogurts]

As to the confusion over the Authors,

-Mat Ward wrote the Fantasy Army Book

-Phil Kelly wrote the 40k codex.

Sauce:http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/confirmations-on-daemon-authors.html

[Caitsidhe]

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad confirmation. I was largely unimpressed with the CSM book. I'd hate to see a repeat of a largely mediocre performance. However, if the same author is doing both books, perhaps we will see some nice synergy.

[Demonus]

yep I agree. As a long time CSM player I was let down by the blandness and even lazy feel to the chaos codex last year. what had great potential ended up kinda meh. I hope there is more synergy with the CD codex so CSM and CD can actually FEEL like battle brothers, instead of "oh, you happen to be on the table too? cool"

[SeismicGhost]

Nah, Tyranids are a fairly common Military sci-fi trope, read practically any book from that genre with "bugs" and it's always the same hive-mind or HR giger ripoff. Guess Heinleinian would be the more apt term for them, or "Cold warrior bugs". They don't look or act alien enough for Loveraft either. Military races in the mythos are way more weirder and less understandable, like Flying polyps :


See: Ymgarl genestealers.

[SeismicGhost]

Heh, sorry, I should say 'Yes, I agree.'
The bugs from sci-fi - Aliens, Starship Troopers, Predator, the Zerg, THOSE things are Tyranids. You're right.
I will also say that while no army in 40k is Cthulhian per se, if ANYTHING was going to be referenced as Lovecraftian it would have to be the Ymgarl Genestealers. Those guys are straight up fluff text Lovecraftian. They stole genes from something older than man. Something..... ANCIENT.....
OOOOoooOOoooo

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'd honestly love a proper lovecraftian faction in 40k, but I doubt itll sadly ever happen - one of the things that inspired me to start sculpting and eventually make my own game really since the sci-fi i love often has weird creatures (robert l forward, stapledon, lovecraft ect). Only viable option for 40k is DIY/counts-as (theres a reason I bought 30 flying polyps from rafm!). I definitely encourage people to do 'craftian takes on daemons or counts-as armies, thats where the real meat is for me, seeing the creativity from those kind of individuals.

Interesting thought on where the Ymgarl Genestealers stole their DNA from though! That's definitely one of the cooler mysteries in the backround for sure.

[spaceman91]

do you guys and girls think an all khorne list would work in 40k? just wondering

[Learn2Eel]

Hard to say until we have the codex mate. From the sounds of it, at least they do have decent ranged anti-tank now in the form of a S8 AP4 large blast weapon - no word on whether it is Ordnance but I am guessing it is.
By the way guys, a slew of pictures is up on Faeit (http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/daemon-information-random-powers.html) from the White Dwarf.

As there are too many to post here, I'll instead post the details (as well as stuff I've seen elsewhere);

1) Skull Cannon is Ballistic Skill 5 (!) with a 36" range S8 AP4 Large Blast. The players said it was "good against vehicles" but no indication on whether it is Ordnance or not.
2) The Burning Chariot of Tzeentch is apparently "the most dangerous shooting unit in the Daemon army"; from what I've heard it can feasibly blow up Land Raiders and, according to the players, wipe out entire squads quickly. It is fragile though. Sounds almost like a Land Speeder Vengeance, just with more versatile firepower.
3) The Plague Drones are Jet Pack Cavalry, meaning they move like cavalry but jump over terrain rather than go through it, meaning less dangerous terrain tests. Also, they can move 2D6 inches in the assault phase like other Jet Pack units. They have a good stat-line, and can take an upgrade that gives Poisoned (+3) melee attacks. With 3 wounds each at T5, they sound like very good harassers/tarpit units, and provided they are Eternal Warrior, they would give most monstrous creatures a big headache.
4) Beasts of Nurgle are much like Chaos Spawn, except they have Poisoned attacks, a lower Strength, an extra wound and a few other changes. Notably, enemies count as taking a disorderly charge against them, and - awesomely - at the end of an enemy charge sub-phase, if an enemy unit charges a friendly unit and has a model within 12" of the Beasts of Nurgle, they can immediately declare a charge against that unit! Actual counter-charge units! Also they are actually Beasts.

5) Loci are in for Heralds - abilities they can purchase that grant said ability to friendly units of the same god - and there are three tiers of Loci for each god - presumably more expensive but better buffs. One of the Loci for Nurgle is Feel No Pain - which obviously indicates that Plaguebearers and Nurgle Daemons in general have lost that special rule. A Tzeentch Loci is to give +1 Strength on psychic powers. The Daemons player said they went too far with Loci's and Daemonic Rewards, they are great upgrades apparently but are also probably expensive. Note that the high level of customisation isn't limited to Heralds - it says 'Daemonic Characters', indicating Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons get a lot of love too. As a note, I am pretty sure the Loci and Daemonic Rewards are not random - there's no mention of that as far as I can tell, mostly just that there are a lot of "twists and turns" i.e. potential effects/cost to effectiveness.

6) This may just be the real game-breaker for competitive players. The Warp Storm chart is indeed real, and according to the players it is a 2D6 chart. No mention of when it is rolled for, though other reports say it is at the start of each shooting phase. Now, the really big thing to note here is this particular sentence on one of the pictures; "The Warp Storm table was nerve-wracking too - you never knew what you were going to get - I kept hoping you'd roll a double-1 and wipe out your own army!" Two things; first off, a 1/11 chance that we can 'wipe out' our own army? In a standard six-turn game, that equates to this happening once in every two games on average. The wording is a little vague, but I will venture a guess they wouldn't include a rule that makes you lose the game - that would just be utterly stupid on so many levels. What I expect is a rule along the lines of 'each unit suffers D6 SX hits' or 'each unit must take a Daemonic Instability test' or yadda yadda. Seems a bit unfair for a random effect. I know it is Chaos, but still....Another thing to point out; if that double-1 effect is so bad, then what must the double-6 effect be? You would think to balance it out it is a really good effect, and again, it is one you get once in every two six-turn games. It makes me wonder what the other effects are - if it is indeed done at the start of each shooting phase, I imagine it provides defensive buffs for your units; as I mentioned earlier, it could be how Kelly has decided to give Daemons that extra bit of durability to make it across the board.

7) Heralds are still a 2-for-1 choice; even if they were playing double force-organisation, the Daemons player still had five HQs. I'm guessing players usually won't spend that much on HQs for Daemons, but with the additions of Loci it could very well be they are the Chaos Daemons equivalent of a royal court.
8) Pink Horror units are indeed psyker units - probably the first inclusion of Brotherhood of Psykers - but there is no indication of Mastery Level or the like.
9) Marked Soul Grinders! The one in the battle report is dedicated to Tzeentch. How does an AV13 walker with Fleet, a 5+ invulnerable save and 3 additional inches to Run moves sound (Slaanesh)?

Also, look at these upgrade names for a Daemon Prince; "Warp-forged armour, Warpstrider, Portalglyph". I'm guessing Warp-forged armour is 3+ armour, but no clues as to what the other two are. And yes, strangely, Daemon Princes are indeed HQs. For those worried that they have left Heavy Support bare though, remember that one of the Slaanesh chariot is a heavy choice, and now the Burning Chariot and Skull Cannon are heavy choices too.
Edit: The Nurgle Locus that gives Feel No Pain is the basic one, meaning it is likely the cheapest one. Maybe that doesn't spell doom for losing Feel No Pain - of course, I expect Plaguebearers and the like have had their cost reduced to reflect the changes.

I've also estimated costs of previously available units based on their old profiles, whilst making some broad but probably accurate guesses on how much some upgrades cost - this was just to give a basic idea of how much the cost of these units has likely changed. Very rough estimates gave me an army that - even without counting the likely expensive Plague Drones, Burning Chariot and Skull Cannon - averaged up to about 2500 points. Not much to go on obviously, but it seems like our units must be a lot cheaper - especially if my calculations are correct based on the assumption that Daemon Princes are costed like Chaos Space Marine ones. Interesting. I also can't see Soul Grinders being cheaper than Defilers - as it is, they have better armour all around, better stats and less guns all for about 60 points less. Suffice it to say, methinks our codex has gotten a big face-lift.

Also, as for Daemonic Instability, I assume it is based on a Leadership test after losing a combat - I think all Daemons are Fearless all the time though. Still, Daemons definitely have lower Leadership values now - they are no longer army-wide Leadership 10.

[KrewL RaiN]

Blaaaah knew that the fire coming out of the giant flamer chariot would be a dumb flat piece of derp :<

Getting excited now, seems like we have a bunch of new toys and super customizable HQs.

[Learn2Eel]

Phil Kelly says in the WD (apparently) that a Keeper of Secrets has a stat-line that puts a Daemon Primce to shame and is capable of turn two charges. That last one makes me wonder if it moves as a Beast. Either way, sounds great!

[eldargal]

Phil Kelly says in the WD (apparently) that a Keeper of Secrets has a stat-line that puts a Daemon Primce to shame and is capable of turn two charges. That last one makes me wonder if it moves as a Beast. Either way, sounds great!
I hope so. Phil Kelly writing it means I might actually work on my Slaanesh daemon army (I have 20 daemonettes and some seekers lol) especially if pure Slaanesh armies are viable. I want them led by a KoS too. Probably not using GWs model...

[Learn2Eel]

Something tells me they will be. They've added quite a few new units that seem to cover the weaknesses of each mono-god build, or at least implemented helpful rules changes. With points cost drops and boosts to Greater Daemons, it should be a much more balanced codex than before. The part about a KoS making a Daemon Prince blush is interesting, to say the least - the CSM Daemon Prince already has a stat-line that makes jaws drop (at least, before T5 and no Eternal Warrior are noticed). I'm guessing it will be WS9, S/T6, maybe S7, I10, A6-7, etc. Also being a Daemon of Slaanesh would give it Fleet, Rending and +3 inches to run moves. Something tells me though that turn 2 charges must mean it is a Beast, which is insane. Hopefully the Greater Daemons aren't over-costed though; they were already over-costed before. At least it sounds like they are more powerful now.

Now I want to know what the other Greater Daemons - particularly the Lord of Change - are like. Gah why does it have to be eight days from now :( lol.

[White Tiger88]

I hope so. Phil Kelly writing it means I might actually work on my Slaanesh daemon army (I have 20 daemonettes and some seekers lol) especially if pure Slaanesh armies are viable. I want them led by a KoS too. Probably not using GWs model...

Boobs for the Boob god! I really want this book now.....

[miteyheroes]

6) This may just be the real game-breaker for competitive players. The Warp Storm chart is indeed real, and according to the players it is a 2D6 chart. No mention of when it is rolled for, though other reports say it is at the start of each shooting phase. Now, the really big thing to note here is this particular sentence on one of the pictures; "The Warp Storm table was nerve-wracking too - you never knew what you were going to get - I kept hoping you'd roll a double-1 and wipe out your own army!" Two things; first off, a 1/11 chance that we can 'wipe out' our own army? In a standard six-turn game, that equates to this happening once in every two games on average.

A double 1 is a 1/36 chance, not a 1/11 chance. If you're rolling 6 times a game, you should get a double 1 about every six games.

[Learn2Eel]

Ah yes, my bad. Had a brain fart and was only counting doubles.

Well then that's not bad at all :) Have to see what the other effects are though. Sounds nice, random and cool.

[miteyheroes]

Of course, it'd still be better if it wasn't an "everyone dies" option... That happening 1-in-6 games will still be annoying! As you said, Instability or D6 hits per unit or something could work.

[DrLove42]

They took phasing out of the Necron codex for a reason, i'm sure they wouldn't put it in somewhere else instead

[Learn2Eel]

Agreed, I expect it is just each unit takes an instability test as if they lost combat or D6 hits. Might sound bad but we don't know the rest of the chart yet.

[eldargal]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZOrpoSthAn8/USdcCZtg1QI/AAAAAAAAE68/zcVufEMi_fQ/s1600/09-DSC_0617.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9_e5HKhyW4w/USdb6GzMb3I/AAAAAAAAE6c/Xwdv_DyNtR0/s1600/04-DSC_0607.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FBhjwg7pTNo/USdbyrHKCzI/AAAAAAAAE6A/KLEEAjUCuHo/s1600/03-DSC_0605.JPG

[Psychosplodge]

Moonheads abit of a fugly ucker int he?

[Mr Mystery]

Different angles help.

And absolutley loving the Tzeentch Herald! Very nice!

[Psychosplodge]

Who was it that wanted fly wings a few months back? looks like they're getting them...

[Learn2Eel]

Me like :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Praise to Tzeentch.

[Psychosplodge]

Praise to Tzeentch.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7084861696/h01EADD8C/

[Caitsidhe]

They took phasing out of the Necron codex for a reason, i'm sure they wouldn't put it in somewhere else instead

Why are you sure about that? Remember, they put Necron Phasing into a Codex in the first place.

[eldargal]

I actually think some kind of phasing ability would suit daemons perfectly if it was implemented properly and appropriately costs included in the units. Daemons in the background are hordes of things popping out of nothingness and even the deep strike rules don't really represent that adequately. I favour the idea of a mix of phasing and pain tokens. For each unit a unit of daemons kills it widens the breach in realspace allowing more daemons to spawn, so you get D3 basic daemons spawn or something.

[Denzark]

Who was it that wanted fly wings a few months back? looks like they're getting them...



I did... for nurgle heldrake purposes...

[Psychosplodge]

ah so these would be too small then?

[HERO]

6) This may just be the real game-breaker for competitive players. The Warp Storm chart is indeed real, and according to the players it is a 2D6 chart. No mention of when it is rolled for, though other reports say it is at the start of each shooting phase. Now, the really big thing to note here is this particular sentence on one of the pictures; "The Warp Storm table was nerve-wracking too - you never knew what you were going to get - I kept hoping you'd roll a double-1 and wipe out your own army!" Two things; first off, a 1/11 chance that we can 'wipe out' our own army? In a standard six-turn game, that equates to this happening once in every two games on average. The wording is a little vague, but I will venture a guess they wouldn't include a rule that makes you lose the game - that would just be utterly stupid on so many levels. What I expect is a rule along the lines of 'each unit suffers D6 SX hits' or 'each unit must take a Daemonic Instability test' or yadda yadda. Seems a bit unfair for a random effect. I know it is Chaos, but still....Another thing to point out; if that double-1 effect is so bad, then what must the double-6 effect be? You would think to balance it out it is a really good effect, and again, it is one you get once in every two six-turn games. It makes me wonder what the other effects are - if it is indeed done at the start of each shooting phase, I imagine it provides defensive buffs for your units; as I mentioned earlier, it could be how Kelly has decided to give Daemons that extra bit of durability to make it across the board.

From a design perspective, I think the worse is probably Unstable rule for all at double 1s. Or something similar to VC's crumbling when rolling the lowest. The highest on the chart however, should be something incredibly beneficial to the Daemon player, something almost akin to Without Number from the 3rd Tyanid Codex if anyone remembers. Lastly, I think the middle of the ground will be similar to those like Warp Quake from the GK book, or maybe even Tempest's Wrath from the SW book. Worse, it might be like Storm Banner form the Skaven book, or something more radical along those lines.

I would not look at what they say to be a literal gamebreaker, but something you dread having for a turn at least.

Regardless, in 40K sense, Daemons are not a very ranged army. Most of their units will struggle to get across the field unharmed, which is exactly why this chart will have a lot of enemy shooting mitigation if I was to place my bets.


Something tells me they will be. They've added quite a few new units that seem to cover the weaknesses of each mono-god build, or at least implemented helpful rules changes. With points cost drops and boosts to Greater Daemons, it should be a much more balanced codex than before. The part about a KoS making a Daemon Prince blush is interesting, to say the least - the CSM Daemon Prince already has a stat-line that makes jaws drop (at least, before T5 and no Eternal Warrior are noticed). I'm guessing it will be WS9, S/T6, maybe S7, I10, A6-7, etc. Also being a Daemon of Slaanesh would give it Fleet, Rending and +3 inches to run moves. Something tells me though that turn 2 charges must mean it is a Beast, which is insane. Hopefully the Greater Daemons aren't over-costed though; they were already over-costed before. At least it sounds like they are more powerful now.

I'm thinking it will have Beast. It's a very Slaanesh trait to have and I was actually dumbfounded when the KoS didn't have it last edition.
I'm hoping they will have more Slaaneshi flavor in the new 40K book (since I think it was actually well-designed in WHFB, though it had some balance concerns), something along the lines of Soporific Musk, but applying to massacre rolls. Roll an extra dice, discard highest, sounds like a pretty bad deal when losing to Slaaneshi demons no?

[HERO]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7084861696/h01EADD8C/

Why not both?

That's what I plan on doing :D

Edit: Also,
http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035375/11148828-en-marzo-demonios-rumores-y-fotos-a-dia-22/#101896978

[Denzark]

ah so these would be too small then?

Not if I use enough of them...

[Psychosplodge]

Why not both?


If ypu're using two, you need to use all four or the other two will feel left out...


Not if I use enough of them...

plan...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Nice to see the pre-orders up.

Only thing I really like is the Fire from the chariot kit, because it looks like i could make decent looking formless spawn type creatures from it :
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa207/embodiedscrew/Tzeentch_zps885e0278.jpg
If I can get that as bits somewhere, id stock up on a load and make some lovecraftian slimey styled Tzeentch horrors from it!

[KrewL RaiN]

If its flat, it might be easy to make some molds for it out of GS or that magic mold stuff.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

If its flat, it might be easy to make some molds for it out of GS or that magic mold stuff.

Not a bad idea! It does look flat which is good imo as i could add tendrills, eyes and mouths to it's basic shape to make it more 3D.

[eldargal]

Everything looks much nicer, there is a surprise.:rolleyes: Even the plague drones. I love the new mono-god battalions too. Even temped to get a Slaanesh collectors edition codex...

[Learn2Eel]

Hey guys, was about to post up some new notes I gathered from the White Dwarf but seeing as Faeit (http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/02/22/rumor-it-deamon-rules/) have posted this up I'll just let them do the talking :)


The White Dwarf is basically out now, and rules are being gleaned from it and the battle report therein as we speak. Here is the latest information on the latest Codex Chaos Daemons.

via TastyTaste on Blood of Kittens
As it turns out there is some valuable rules information from the GW Battle Report here is a quick run down of those insights.

*Deamons of special rules are the same as the ones found on the Deamon Princes in Chaos Space Marine codex
*Burning Chariot of Tzeentch has Torrent AP3 Flamers along with second mode with high strength for vehicle killing.
*The Skull Cannon of Khorne is Large Blast S8 AP4 or 36" range
*Standard Deployment is back for Deamons along with normal Deep Strike
*Plague Drones have upgrades to get 3+ along with at least Strength 4
*Daemonic Rewards random chart three tiers (50 pts to roll)
*Herald Loci buffing powers for same god units (Icons of Deamons)
*Psychic Powers
*All Heralds (minus Khorne) can be psykers and you still can take two for one per HQ
*Warp Storm random (2d6) powers that effect Deamons every turn of the game.
*Tzeentch Gets Divination (HUGE)!
*Soul Grinder has Skyfire

Those are the big ones I could gather I know others on the net have posted their own lists from the White Dwarf.
If you want a closer look at some of the Deamonic Rewards here is a pic.

As for that mentioned picture, it relates to Fantasy rules, not 40K.

So what to make of all this - and yes this is all true, I've seen it myself - WOW! A note on the battle report as well - the Space Marine player took an army that you would think would crush an infantry-heavy Daemons army, especially considering the losses the Daemon player took early on. A Thunderfire Cannon, two Storm Talons, lots of Tactical Marines, and a Null Zone Librarian to top it off. The Daemons did very well to win in style, and it would have been a crushing victory for them if not for one unit being lost at the end of the game.

Now on to those details; first off, confirmation of the 'Daemon of X' rules staying the same. Not surprising. The Burning Chariot has a multi-shot weapon that can blow up Land Raiders, and we have yet another Torrent AP3 flamer - Phil Kelly magic!
Daemonic Rewards are random charts - you roll on either Standard, Greater or Exalted charts depending on what you paid for. Loci are not random - if you buy Feel No Pain, you keep Feel No Pain.
It hasn't been mentioned earlier - remember how I said a double 1 on that Warp Storm chart can do a lot of damage to the Daemon units? And that the top results must be equally brutal - but in a good way? Well a 10 gives all Daemons +1 to their invulnerable save! Nasty!

Oh, and Tzeentch has access to Divination! Can you imagine a cheap bare bones Tzeentch Herald with the +1 Strength on psychic powers locus stuck in a large Pink Horror squad; the Herald casts Prescience, the Horrors cast their brutal powers? Nice! Oh and yes, Pink Horrors are indeed a Mastery Level per models taken unit. It was mentioned that the Space Marine player 'was lucky to kill enough Pink Horrors that their mastery level dropped to 2'. I am guessing it is one mastery level per five Horrors - meaning 20-strong units are Mastery Level 4. Though Deny the Witch can stop them, it is smart as the higher mastery level the unit is, the more powers they can cast and thus the far increased chance you will get a power off! Horrors are sounding good.....so long as they have access to good powers of course.

Soul Grinders Skyfiring sounds nuts, and would give Daemon players a big incentive to field them - especially as Daemon Princes are no longer heavy support options. So it looks like the design team wanted to reduce the number of flying monstrous creatures you could field, but provided skyfire options to compensate. Neat!
All in all.....I think this is shaping up to be a very good codex. Oh, and Phil Kelly basically said in his interview that 'you were a pansy to not take a Greater Daemon, my favourite of which is the Keeper of Secrets'. :D

EDIT: I found out what the Portalglyph on the Daemon Prince does! It spawns new units on a 4+ after it is "placed'. It's done at the end of the movement phase; in the battle report, five Pink Horrors were spawned.

Also a note on just how powerful the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch is - in the practice game they played, it wiped out an entire Tactical squad in one shot with words to the effect that it was "easy". It also can reliably destroy a Land Raider at 'long range' (more than likely they mean 24"). Sounds like death incarnate if it isn't blown up quickly.

Ooh....with Tzeentch Daemons having Divination, if Heralds/Pink Horrors are cheaper, I think a lot of Chaos Space Marine players are going to be very happy.....

[HERO]

The Burning Chariot has a multi-shot weapon that can blow up Land Raiders, and we have yet another Torrent AP3 flamer - Phil Kelly magic!

Good, cause I f'n love how it looks.

However, what will really do it/break it for me are the new GD models. I hope they release the book with them!

[Learn2Eel]

Good, cause I f'n love how it looks.

However, what will really do it/break it for me are the new GD models. I hope they release the book with them!

Won't be happening unfortunately mate :( Whilst they probably are in production, they aren't in this wave, and what few pictures from the White Dwarf I've seen show that the old Greater Daemons models are the ones used in the army book/codex. Still, I expect we will be seeing them this year; we can only hope!

Oh dear, just thought of another potentially ridiculous combination....
Ok, everyone remember how the Disc of Tzeentch is a Jetbike in Chaos Space Marines? It should be in this book as well (unless they already were, I can't remember). Now, take a Herald on a Disc and give it Prescience from Divination. Run it in a unit of Screamers. Provided they haven't been nerfed to oblivion since the White Dwarf update (and by the sounds of it, they haven't), that literally screams (pun intended) death for almost any opponent! Or, if you want to keep the Herald away (aside from denying challenges), put it in another fast-moving unit that doesn't require Prescience - such as Flamers.

Just a note, Karanak and the Changeling are now in the HQ section on Games Workshop's website. Does this mean they too are HQs? The Changeling is probably now another Herald level character, ala Fantasy, but Karanak is the odd one. Maybe Karanak is now a more powerful Herald-level character too? Not surprising, and not really something worthy of saying "oh they put units there that didn't need to be there" ala Daemon Princes, as the Changeling should be a Herald anyway and a case could be made Karanak should be more than just a unit upgrade. Still, it is great fun scrolling down the Chaos Daemons HQ page......

[Caitsidhe]

I'm not getting my hopes up until I see the final product. Once bitten, twice shy.

[Learn2Eel]

To more accurately determine if Daemons have indeed gotten price drops, I calculated the cost of the Space Marine force - including the up to date pricing for Stormtalons. The total came to 2455 - seeing as my estimates for the Daemon army without including the new units (which I estimate would take up at least 300 points) were about 2500, and I also only valued the Portalglyph at around 15 points (it is probably closer to 100), I think it is definitely safe to say our units have gotten cheaper. And again, it has to be mentioned the Daemon player was spending at least 600+ points on his HQ slots too - the Daemon Prince, if it is costed like Chaos Space Marines, takes up about 330-360 by itself if my guesses are correct. Ergo, daemonic hordes are back! Maybe not enough that we can get four heralds with loci in each of our Troops choices at 1500, but we can only wait and see.

Also, had to laugh at this;
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440199a&prodId=prod1160103a
Look at its stat-line and you will see what I mean....

Wait wha.....
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440199a&prodId=prod860026a
Uh-oh....

Ummm is it just me or is this just a bit too coincidental? I know they probably aren't correct, seeing as they are nothing like the 40K ones.....but seriously? What the......?
In any case, other daemonic stat-lines haven't been added/changed, so these can be officially debunked methinks. Still a funny typo....

[Deadlift]

I hope that the possibility of mono-god themed armies is possible, maybe with Chaos marines to flesh them out a bit. I really like the idea of Deathguard / plague marines and Nurgle Daemons personally.

[Learn2Eel]

I would expect that as long as Plaguebearers haven't changed too much (just stick a Herald with the Feel No Pain Locus with them) both armies will be very competitive either alone or together.
What I'm really excited about are Tzeentch Daemons combining with Thousand Sons or Tzeentch-themed Chaos Marines - Tzeentch is so horrible in CSM, but apparently very good again in the new Daemons.
Also Khorne Daemons could very well be what helps to make Khorne CSM armies viable.
Slaanesh armies work - Daemonettes/Seekers are mobile melee and tarpit units, Noise Marines provide medium to long range artillery. Neat.

[HERO]

It kinda stinks that they're not releasing the GD models with the first couple of waves.

I guess I'll be using my Tyranids as proxies because I seriously don't feel comfortable giving GW my money for models I know they're going to replace.

[HERO]

via the Faeit 212 inbox (has to remain anonymous source)
Daemonic: Instability
If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6. You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by.

For the case of shooting then the daemons count as being fearless.
If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not effected by daemonic Instability

Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10
Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base)

All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive)

Greater daemons are tough – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending.

Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WS BS S T W A I LD SV
10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+

Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound.
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour)

Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)
Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points

Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

Discuss!

[White Tiger88]

Slaanesh...is...playable! I LOVE IT!

[Learn2Eel]

My thoughts;

Daemonic Instability sounds exactly like 5th Edition Fearless. You can never be Pinned or fall back from shooting, and in combat you suffer wounds equal to how many models you lost the combat by. Ninja'd. Though that also probably means we can't go to ground, as was rumoured. Still, better than running away or getting Pinned at a bad moment. I also wonder if we are able to take saves when we fail Instability tests....my guess is no. Also interesting to note that Heralds do not suffer from Instability (and I presume Princes/Greater Daemons don't either) and confer this to their unit! And according to the guy in the comments section who made this post, kitted out Heralds are between 100-110 points. Sounds like they really want to push Heralds/make them more than just cheap HQs in this codex.

Note; for Daemonic Instability, the rumour actually says 'models lost', not 'wounds suffered'. Might be a typo/misinterpretation, but it would at least make a difference where multi-wound units are concerned (Flamers, Screamers, etc). I've noticed a few complaints about the "25%" rumoured rule, but methinks this is a way to encourage bigger units of Daemons - if you have 20 Bloodletters, you need to lose 5 before taking an Instability test. On the other hand, if you have 5 Bloodletters and lose 2, you are more likely to lose the unit. Food for thought, money for GW :p lol. With my 'Ninja'd part above, it sounds like it isn't based on how much you fail the test by - which is great. You just want to pass the test in the first place lol.

The Soul Grinder might seem hella' expensive, but it appears to be costed appropriately against a Defiler. Whilst I don't really agree with the Defiler pricing, at least it is consistent - if the Soul Grinder has better guns than it did before and cheaper/more upgrades (which we already know is true considering they can be dedicated to a god) then it might still be very useful.
Also about saves, the guy in the comments implied that armour saves are equivalent to invulnerable saves or something like that. It might only apply to the units' base save. Though, I think if a Tzeentch Herald (or a Lord of Change) can take a 2+ invulnerable save, paired with re-rolls of 1s for being a Daemon of Tzeentch......CHEESE!

Sounds like the Greater Daemons are all a lot more powerful, especially if that Bloodthirster profile is anything to go by. Re-rolling to hit and wound at WS10 S8 I5 with 5 attacks base? :eek: Considering the guy in the comments implied a Bloodthirster with that 65+ point upgrade is in the 290-320+ mark, does this mean the basic Bloodthirster is closer to 230 points? Ridiculous if true. And a Keeper of Secrets with 6 attacks that gets more attacks per kill. :eek: Fateweaver's ability sounds great, especially against characters without invulnerable saves - here's a trick (if it works as rumoured), charge into unit with Fatey (silly I know), challenge the Sergeant, kill the Sergeant, get a free Chaos Spawn :D I also assume the "only re-rolls invulnerable saves" is referring to Fatey's aura, ergo it won't benefit Daemons that have armour or cover ala Khorne/Nurgle Daemons. This all sounds quite....accurate to be honest.

Bloodletters I think are somewhat fair at that cost, especially now that they can deploy on the board and icons are now actually helpful in this army. It also depends on what buffs they get from Heralds, and what their Hellblades count as (though I expect them to remain AP3). I think I would have preferred them a point cheaper, but as it is, that is fine IMO. Daemonettes look to be a lot better, especially if they are S4 on the charge - though this does make me doubt the validity of the rumour, as I can't see why they would get such a rule. Plague Bearers seem fine, though the guy in the comments said they have a 4+ save - so they are a lot cheaper, they've lost Feel No Pain but have a better base save and Shrouded. Not to mention, they still have access to Feel No Pain through a cheap Herald. Sounds good to me. Pink Horrors though......the guy specified they have a "better save", meaning they probably have a 3+ invulnerable save. Now, remember the Daemon of Tzeentch rule gives re-rolls of saving throws of 1, and that these guys are psykers with high mastery levels based on squad size. They also have access to Divination. Insane. Expensive, but crazy.

Not too hopeful about the psychic powers though. Sounds like they aren't all that great. Well, at least Tzeentch has Divination, and I presume Nurgle would get Biomancy whilst Slaanesh likely gets Telepathy or something.

These are probably the most believable rumours we've seen so far. Nothing in there sounds too over-the-top, and nothing sounds too weak either. It sounds like you have to pay for the good stuff, and there are some notes in there that I think make a lot of sense - i.e. Fateweaver only affecting invulnerable saves, which would basically not help the Shrouded Nurgle Daemons or armoured Khorne Daemons (though of course they do still have invulnerable saves). Hopefully these are accurate.

Hmm, I've had some more thoughts about Pink Horrors (if these rumours are accurate). If I am correct about what the source of the rumour implied, then Horrors have a 3+ invulnerable save with re-rolls of 1s. That might sound incredibly over-powered to some, and it does to me, but they are apparently 19 buttercups a piece. Not to mention, they are still Toughness 3 with horrible stats otherwise. They are now Psykers (and thus can be shut down/denied) and are forced to run in big units to get better/more psychic powers and not fail Instability tests all the time. Have to see for ourselves....though I think it is accurate (again, if the rumoured rules are accurate) given that apparently Plaguebearers have a 4+ invulnerable save now.

[HERO]

For some reason, 3++ on Horrors seems a little off to me.
same with 4++ on Plaguebearers.

[Learn2Eel]

That it does. Though I do agree* with a lot of the post otherwise.
*By agree I mean sounds plausible :)

[KrewL RaiN]

My Bloodthrister loves to roll 1's to wound way too much, so I hope those tidbits are true :<

Also, monstrous beasts for Bloodcrushers? Is that a fantasy ruling?

Blarg the wait be killing me lol

The fluff blurb on White Dwarf Daily about the Plague Flies made me go awwwws... Beasts of Nurgle are happy slimy maggots, then they go sad and turn into putrid butterflies... poor things lol

[Learn2Eel]

Hmmm.....I'm starting to doubt the validity of this set of rumours. The source has said Horrors have a 4+ invulnerable save, but don't re-roll saving throws of 1. He also said they have the 'mark of Tzeentch'. Probably he has just read it wrong.

In any case, I expect images of the codex will be leaked online in a day or two. Not that it matters anyway, I'm sure most of us will have it on Saturday :D

[KrewL RaiN]

A little tidbit from the GW blog today: You'll also have four Blue Horrors spare, which you can add to your unit of Pink Horrors for a splash of colour or use as Horror counters in combat (when a Pink Horror dies they explode into Blue Horrors, which get to scrabble and nibble at their foes before they get squashed).

[korgüll]

There are a lot of information about Codex: Chaosdaemons:

Beware, its german (http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php/182161-D%C3%A4monen-2013?p=2891232&viewfull=1#post2891232)



Ich gehe am besten mal die Reihe durch und fasse zusammen was so an netten neuen Sachen dabei ist (ohne den alten Codex zu haben, daher kann ich nicht vergleichen):

Es gibt keine Aufstellung mehr wie im vorherigen Codex mit Armee halbieren. Die Dämonen haben keine Flieger, aber mehrere fliegende monströse Kreaturen.

Dämonen haben eine Zugehörigkeit zu ihrer Gottheit und jeweis Hass auf die Dämonen der verfeindeten Gottheit. Weiterhin kann sich z.B. kein Herold des Slaanesh Seuchenhütern anschließen.
Khorne: Rasender Angriff, Niederschmettern von deren Streitwagen wird mit S7 abgehandelt
Tzeentch: Beim Manifestieren von Psikräften +3 auf den Moralwert, Wiederholung von Rettungswürfen auf die 1
Nurgle: Langsam und Entschlossen, Schleier, jede Einheit, die vollständig aus Nurgledämonen besteht, wird behandelt, als hätte sie Defensivgranaten
Slaanesh: Rüstungsbrechend und Sprinten, jede vollständig aus Slaaneshdämonen bestehende Einheit rennt 3" weiter (W6+3"). Besteht sie vollständig aus Kavalleriemodellen, so rennt sie 6" weiter. Fahrzeuge, die keine Läufer sind, bewegen sich bei Vollgas 3" weiter.

Dämonische Instabilität:
Einheiten mit dieser Regel dürfen keine Modelle ohne diese Regel aufnehmen. Besteht automatisch alle Angst-, Niederhalten- und Moraltests. Wenn eine Einheit Dämonen einen Nahkampf verliert, so muss sie stattdessen auf die Instabilität mit 2W6 testen:
Differenz aus modifizierten Moralwert und Ergebnis entspricht zusäztlichen Wunden, gegen die keine Schutzwürfe erlaubt sind.
Doppel 1: Alle Leben*****te die die Einheit in dieser Phase verloren hat, werden wieder hergestellt! Jedes Modell, dass in dieser Phase als Verlust entfernt wurde, erscheint wieder.
Doppel 6: Die gesamte Einheit wird als Verlust entfernt!

Kriegsherren:
1 Leibhaftiger Tod: Alle Nahkampfwaffen des Kriegsherren haben Sofort ausschalten
2 Vernichter der Sterblichen: Der kriegsherr und seine Einheit haben Hass (gegen alles)
3 Herold des Untergangs: Solange der Kriegsherr lebt, legen alle feindlichen Einheiten Angsttests mit -1 ab
4 Unsterblicher Anführer: Befreundeten Einheiten aus diesem Codex innerhalb um 12" des Kriegsherren dürfen misslungene Tests für dämonische Instabilität wiederholen
5 Fürst der Unrealität: Solange der Kriegsherr am Leben ist, darfst du jeden Wurf auf die Warpsturmtabelle wiederholen
6 Warpleuchtfeuer: Sofern sich der Kriegsherr zu Beginn des Spielerzuges auf dem Spielfeld befand, welchen befreundete Einheiten mit der Sonderregel Dämon (also auch was von CSM) die als Schocktruppe eintreffen nicht ab, wenn das erste Modell innerhalb von 6" um den Kriegsherren platziert wird.

Warpsturmtabelle:
Gilt nur, wenn Hauptkontingent Dämonen ist. Es wird zu Beginn der eigenen Schussphase mit 2W6 gewürfelt und das Ergebnis wird sofort abgehandelt.
2 Der Sturm flaut ab: Alle Einheiten mit der sonderregel Däm. Instabilität (Freund wie Feind) müssen sofort einen Test für Däm. Instabilität ablegen.
3 Von den Göttern bestraft: Ermittle zufällig ein Charaktermodell (Freund wie Feind) mit der Sonderregel Däm. Instabilität, das sich im Spiel befindet. Das Modell muss einen Test auf Däm. Instabilität mit 3W6 ablegen und dadurch entstandene Verwundungen können nur ihm zugeteilt werden.
4 Warpbeben: Alle Modelle mit Dämon erleiden -1 auf ihre Rettungswürfe bis du oder dein Gegner das nächste mal auf die Tabelle würfelt.
5 Sturm des Feuers: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Nurgle (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Nurgle) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 zentrierst du die 5" Schablone auf einem beliebigen Modell der Einheit und lässt sie dann abweichen. Jede Einheit (Freund wie Feind) erleidet so viele Treffer mit S4 DS5 wie Modelle der jeweiligen Einheit getroffen werden. Die Treffer haben Deckung ignorieren und Sperrfeuer.
6 Oh glorreiche Verwesung: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Tzeentch (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Tzeentch) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 erleidet die Einheit W6 Treffer mit S4 DS3. Die Treffer haben Deckung ignorieren und Gift(4+). Fahrzeuge werden in die Seite getroffen.
7 Warpstille: Es passiert nichts.
8 Der Dunkle Prinz dürstet: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Khorne (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Khorne) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 erleidet die jeweilige einheit W6 Treffer Mit S6 DS-. Die Treffer haben Deckung ignorieren und Rüstungsbrechend. Fahrzeuge werden in die Seite getroffen.
9 Khornes Zorn: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Slaanesh (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Slaanesh) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 zentrierst du die 3" Schablone auf einem beliebigen Modell der Einheit und lässt sie dann abweichen. Jede Einheit (Freund wie Feind) erleidet so viele Treffer mit S8 DS3 wie Modelle der jeweiligen Einheit getroffen werden. Die Treffer haben Sperrfeuer.
10 Warpflut: Alle Modelle mit Dämone erhalten +1 auf ihre Rettungswürfe bis das nächste mal auf die Tabelle gewürfelt wird.
11 Dämonische Besessenheit: Ermittle zufällig einen feindlichen Psioniker, der kein Fahrzeug ist und sich auf dem Spielfeld befindet und kein Dämon ist. Der Psioniker muss einen Moralwerttest mit 3W6 ablegen. Misslingt er, so platzierst du einen neuen Herold deiner Wahl um 6" des Psionikers. Der Psioniker wird entfernt. Der Herold befindet sich unter deiner Kontrolle und hat keinerlei Aufwertungen und ist wie andere Einheiten ihres Typs Siege*****te wert. Er darf im Spielerzug seines Erscheinens keinen Angriff ansagen.
12 Aus dem Warp beschworen: Eine neue Einheit aus 2W6+3 Zerfleischern, Rosa Horrors, Seuchenhütern oder Dämonetten (deiner Wahl) trifft sofort als Schocktruppe ein.

Dämonen haben einen 6+ Rüstungswurf! Manche auch besser, wie Blutdämon mit 3+ Rüstungswurf.
Blutdämon hat kein Ewiger Krieger. Der Schädelsammler hat 3+ RW und Ewiger Krieger. Skarbrand hat auch kein Ewiger Krieger. Karanak ebenfalls nicht.
Herrscher das Wandels hat Psi2 (Prophetie und Wandel) und ist eine fliegende monströse Kreatur.
11-15 Rosa Horrors erzeugen 2Warppunkte, 16-20 Rosa Horrors 3 Warppunkte.
Kairos hat einen 4+ Retter. Jeder von Kairos Köpfen ist ein Psioniker mit Psi4. Beide Köpfe kennen alle Kräfte aus Wandel. Zusätzlich erhält der rechte Kopf je eine Kraft aus Pyromantie und Prophetie und der linke Kopf je eine aus Telepathie und Piomantie. Zu Beginn deines Zuges gibst du an, welchen Kopf du nutzen willst. Er kann mit seinem Stab einen einzelnen Würfel pro Spielerzug neu werfen. auch von 2W6, 3W6 usw. Würfen, wobei immer nur ein einziger Würfel neu geworfen werden darf.
Die blauen Gelehrten sind keine Psioniker, aber können ohne Psitest eine durch würfeln ermittelte Psikraft aus dem Hauptregelwerk einsetzen.
Der Wechselbalg darf sich in Basekontakt mit einem gegnerischen Nichtfahrzeugmodell eines seiner eigenen Profilwerte von KG, S, W, I und/oder A durch das das Gegners ersetzen (bis zum Ende des Spielerzuges).
Großer Verpester hat Psi1 und wählt aus Biomantie und Seuche.
Schleimbestien des Nurgle können in den gegnerischen Phase Angriffe ansagen!
Ku’Gath kann Nurgleschwärmen Leben*****te zurückgeben.
Epidemus und sein Seuchenzins:
Solange Epidemus lebt, führst du über alle nicht durch einen Schutzwurf verhinderte Verwundungen Buch, die von Dämonen des Nurgle (Freund wie Feind) angerichtet werden. Darüber hinaus zählst du auch Leben*****tverluste, die durch etwas anderes als einen Schutzwurf verhindert wurden (z.B. Verletzung ignorieren oder Reanimationsprotokolle). Am Anfang jedes deiner Züge konsultierst du die Tabelle. Alle Dämonen des Nurgle in Einheiten die sich innerhalb von 6" um Epidemus befinden erhalten die Boni (kumulativ):
7+: +1Stärke
14+: +1 Widerstand
21+ Gift (2+)
28+ Verletzung ignorieren (4+)
Hüter der Geheimnisse hat Erzfeind Elder & Darkeldar. Und Psi1 aus Telepathie und Exzesse.
Die Maske wiederholt jeden misslungenen Rettungswurf. Die Maske hat verschiedene Tänze.
Es gibt CHAOSFURIEN.

Flammenwaffen des Tzeentch:
Haben alle die Sonderregel Warpflammen. AM Ende jeder Phase in deren Verlaufe eine Einheit mindestens einen nicht verhinderen Lepun*****tverlust durch sowas erlitt, muss sie einen Widerstandstest ablegen. Vergeigt sie diesen erleidet sie W3 weitere Wunden ohne erlaubte Rüster oder Decker. Besteht sie ihn, erhält sie Verletzung ignorieren (6+), falls sie schon Verletzung ignorieren hat, sie wird es um +1 verbessert. Das Chaos ist launish!

Schädelkanone: Von der Schädelkanone getroffene Einheiten können diese Runde angegriffen werden, ohne dass der Angreifer Initiativeabzug durch schwieriges Gelände erhält.
Axt des Khorne hat bei einem Verwundungswurf von 6 Sofort ausschalten.
Mutierte Warpklinge (Tzeentch): Tötet der Träger ein feundliches Charaktermodell oder monströse Kreatur, so wird dieses auf 2+ in eine Chaosbrut verwandelt.
Warpverderben (Tzeetch): Wenn ein Charaktermodell oder monströse Kreatur seinen letzen Leben*****t durch eine Nahkampfattacke des Stab des Wandels verliert, explodiert das Opfer. Alle einheiten innerhalb von W6 Zoll um das Opfer (einschließlich der Träger und andere befreundete Einheiten) erleiden W6 Treffer mit S5 DS-.
Seuchenflegel: Modelle die einen nicht verhinderten Leben*****tverlust durch diese Waffe erleiden, müssen einen Widerstandstest bestehen oder sie verlieren einen weiteren Leben*****t, gegen denen keine Rüster oder Decker erlaubt sind.
Geisträuber-Schwert (Slaanesh): Modelle die einen nicht verhinderten Leben*****tverlust durch diese Waffe erleiden, müssen einen Initiativetest bestehen oder sie verlieren einen weiteren Leben*****t, gegen denen keine Rüster oder Decker erlaubt sind.

Viele Charaktermodelle kaufen sich keine direkte Ausrüstung, sondern geringe, mächtige oder erhabene Belohnungen für bestimmte Punkte. Was diese Belohnung dann ist, wird zufällig ermittelt (W6). Dies geschieht zum Zeitpunkt in dem die Begabung des Kriegsherren ermittelt wird. Belohnungen dürfen in der Armee doppelt auftauchen, aber ein Modell muss immer verschiedene haben. Wiederholt sich ein Ergebnis, würfle solange, bis ein anderes kommt. Man kann anschließend je eine einzelne Belohnunge (gering, mächtig und/oder erhaben) eines Charaktermodells durch die 0 ersetzen. Das wäre dann magische Waffe, mächtige magische Waffe und höllengeschmiedetes Artefakt.

Geringe Belohnungen:
0 Magische Waffe: Dämon erhält Ätherklinge (DS2, Meisterhaft, Spezielle Waffe), Dämon des Khorne erhalt eine Axt des Khorne, Dämon des Tzeentch einen Stab des Wandels, Dämon des Nurgle einen Seuchenflegel und Dämon des Slaanesh ein Geistrüber-Schwert.
So zieht sich das dann durch. Mal schauen, ob ich die ganzen Belohnungen noch abtippe. Es sind jedenfalls echt nette Sachen dabei.

Skarbrand oder Blutdämon machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Khorne Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Kairos oder Herrscher des Wandels machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Tzeentch Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Ku’Gath oder Großer Verpester machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Nurgle Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Hüter der Geheimnisse macht aus Dämonenprinzen des Slaanesh Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.

Dämonenprinz kostet nackt 145 Punkte. Er muss zu einem Dämon einer Gottheit werden:
Khorne 15P
Tzeentch 25P
Nurgle 15P
Slaanesh 10P
darf zur fliegenden monströsen Kreatur werden 40P
darf bis zu 50P an dämonischen Belohnungen wählen in beliebiger Kombination:
geringe Belohnung je 10P
mächtige Belohung je 20P
erhabene Belohhnung je 30P
Dämonenprinzen, welche nicht zu Khorne gehören, dürfen Psioniker werden:
Psi1 25P
Psi2 50P
Psi3 75P

Herolde zählen weiterhin je nur einen halben HQ Platz. Herolde haben bestimte Präsenzen, welche aufgewertet werden können und der Einheit Boni bescheren.

Ikonen können verbessert werden für einmalige Effekte und Instrumente können weitere Einheiten aus der Reserve holen und die unliebsamen Ergebnisse auf der Warpsturmtabelle zu Gunsten der Dämonen abschwächen durch Wiederholungswürfe.

[lattd]

Google translation of the post from Korgull


Demons have an affiliation to their deity and jeweis hatred of the demons of the hostile deity. It may also cause e.g. no herald of Slaanesh disease guardians connect.
Khorne: Furious Charge, low blare of their chariots is dealt with S7
Tzeentch: The Manifesting Psikräften +3 on the moral value, repetition of saving throws on the 1
Nurgle: Slow and Determined veil, each unit consisting entirely of Nurgledämonen is treated as if she had defensive grenades
Slaanesh: Armour Piercing and sprinting, each consisting entirely of Slaaneshdämonen unit runs 3 "further (D6 +3"). It consists entirely of cavalry models, so she runs 6 "on. Vehicles that are not runners, move at full speed 3" continues.

Demonic instability:
Units with this rule may not record models without this rule. Automatically passes all the anxiety, minimizing, and moral tests. When a unit loses a combat demons, they must be tested on the instability 2d6:
Difference of modified moral value and result corresponds zusäztlichen wounds, no protection against the throws are allowed.
Double 1: All Health has lost the unity in this phase will be restored! Each model that has been removed in this phase as a loss appears again.
Double 6: The entire unit is removed as a loss!

Warlords:
1 death incarnate: All melee weapons of warlords Shut Down
2 destroyer of mortals: The warlord and his unit have hatred (against everything)
3 herald of doom: While the war Lord lives, put all enemy units from test anxiety by -1
4 immortal leader: friendly units from the Codex to within 12 "of the warlords may repeat failed tests for demonic instability
5 Prince of unreality: As long as the warlord's alive, you may repeat every throw on the Warpsturmtabelle
6 Warpleuchtfeuer: the warlord If at the beginning of the players train on the field was what friendly units with the special rule demon (including what CSM) as shock troops arrive from not when the first model will be located within 6 "of the warlords .

Warpsturmtabelle:
Applies only if the main contingent of demons. It is rolled at the beginning of their own shooting phase 2d6 and the result is immediately dealt with.
2 The storm subsides: All units with the special rules twilight. Instability (friend or foe) must immediately test for twilight. Instability store.
3 punished by the Gods: Determine random twilight a character (friend or foe) with the special rule. Instability, which is located in the game. The model must have a test on twilight. Drop instability with 3d6 and thus created wounds can only be assigned to him.
4 Warpbeben: All models demon suffer -1 to their saving throws until you or your opponent the next time rolls on the table.
5 storm of fire: Roll a D6 for each non-bonded unit in melee on the field that contains at least one demon of Nurgle or an enemy unit is (or at least a model with Mark of Nurgle.). On a 6 you CENTERING the 5 'template on any model of the unit and can vary them. Each unit (friend or foe) suffers as many hits with S4 DS5 as models of each unit to be made. Results have ignore cover and barrage .
6 Oh glorious decay: Roll a D6 for each non-bonded unit in melee on the field that contains at least one demon of Tzeentch or an enemy unit is (or at least a model with Mark of Tzeentch.). On a 6, the unit suffers D6 hits with S4 DS3. The results have coverage and ignore poison (4 +). Vehicles are taken to the page.
7 Warpstille: Nothing happens.
8 The Dark Prince thirst: Roll a D6 for each non-bonded unit in melee on the field that contains at least one demon of Khorne or an enemy unit is (or at least a model with Mark of Khorne.). On a 6, the respective unit suffers D6 hits with S6 DS. The results have coverage and ignore Armour Piercing. Vehicles are taken to the page.
9 Khorne's wrath: Roll a D6 for each non-bonded unit in melee on the field that contains at least one demon of Slaanesh or an enemy unit is (or at least a model with Mark of Slaanesh.). On a 6 you CENTERING the 3 "template on any model of the unit and can vary them. Each unit (friend or foe) suffers as many hits with S8 DS3 as models of each unit to be made.'ve Hit the barrage.
10 Warpflut: All models with demons get +1 to their saving throws until the next time will be thrown on the table.
11 Demon possession: Determine randomly an enemy psyker that is not a car and being on the field and is not a demon. The psyker must pass a Leadership test with 3d6. Fails it, so you place a new herald your choice of 6 "of Psionikers. The psionicist is removed. The Herald is under your control and does not have any upgrades and is like other units of their type victory points. He must not in Spielerzug its appearance Attack announce.
Summoned 12 From the Warp: A new unit of 2d6 +3 Zerfleischern, Pink Horrors, disease or guardians Daemonettes (your choice) meets immediately as shock troops.

Demons have a 6 + armor save! Some even better, as Bloodthirster with 3 + armor save.
Bloodthirster does not have Eternal Warrior. The skull collector has 3 + RW and Eternal Warrior. Skarbrand has no Eternal Warrior. Karanak either.
Change the ruler has Psi2 (Prophecy and Change) and is a flying monstrous creature.
11-15 Pink Horrors generate 2Warppunkte, 16-20 Pink Horrors 3 Warppunkte.
Kairos has a 4 + savior. Each of Cairo's minds is a psyker with PJ4. Both heads know all the forces of change. In addition, the right head ever gets a force out pyromancy and prophecy and the left head one each. From telepathy and Piomantie At the beginning of your turn, you indicate that you'd like to use what you know head. He and his staff can throw a single die per Spielerzug new. by 2D6, 3D6, etc. litters, which may not always only one dice are rolled again.
The Blue Scholars are not psykers, but can be used without Psitest one determined by dice psychic power from the main rules.
The changeling must be replaced in base contact with an opposing non-vehicle model of a profile of its own values ​​of KG, S, W, I and / or A by the opponent (to the end of the players turn).
Great Unclean has PSI1 and selects Biomantie and disease.
Slime Beasts of Nurgle may announce in the opponent's attack phase!
Ku'Gath can return Nurgleschwärmen Health.
Epidemus disease and his interest:
As long Epidemus lives you lead all not by a guard throw prevented wounds book, the demon of Nurgle (friend or foe) are served. Furthermore you count also Wounds that have been prevented by something other than a union protection (eg ignore injury or resuscitation protocols). At the beginning of each of your turns you konsultierst the table. All demons of Nurgle in the units are received within 6 "to Epidemus the bonuses (cumulative):
7 +: +1 Strength
14 +: +1 Resistance
21 + Poison (2 +)
28 + injury ignore (4 +)
Keeper of Secrets has nemesis Elder & Darkeldar. And PSI1 from telepathy and excesses.
The mask is repeated each failed save. The mask has different dances.
There CHAOS FURIES.

Flame weapons of Tzeentch:
Warpflammen have all the special rule. AT the end of each phase in the course of which a unit has suffered at least one non verhinderen Lepun*****tverlust through something like that, they must pass a resistance test. They blew this, she suffers more W3 wounds without allowing elm or Decker. There they him, she receives injury ignore (6 +), if it has already ignore injury, it is improved by +1. The chaos is launish!

Skull Gun: Measures taken by the skull gun units can be attacked this round without the attacker gains deduction initiative through difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne has off a Verwundungswurf of 6 immediately.
Mutated Warpklinge (Tzeentch): Kill the carrier is a feundliches character model or monstrous creature, so this will be converted to 2 + into a Chaos Spawn.
Warpverderben (Tzeetch): If a character or monstrous creature loses his last life point by a melee attack, the wand of change, the victim explodes. All units within D6 inches around the victim (including the carrier and other friendly units) suffer D6 hits with S5 DS.
Flegel disease: models suffer a life point loss is not prevented by this weapon must pass a resistance test or they lose another life point, against which no elm or Decker are allowed.
Ghost Raider Sword (Slaanesh): models suffer a life point loss is not prevented by this weapon must pass an initiative test or they lose another life point, against which no elm or Decker are allowed.

Many character models are not directly buy equipment, but small, powerful or sublime rewards for certain points. What is then the reward is determined by chance (W6). This is done at the time in which the talent of the warlords is determined. Rewards may not be duplicated in the army, but a model must always have different. Repeats a result, roll, until another comes. One can then ever a single REWARDS (small, powerful, and / or elevated) of a character model to replace with 0. That would be magic weapon, powerful magical weapon and hell forged artifact.

Small rewards:
0 Magic Weapon: Demon ether blade (DS2, Masterful, Special Weapon), demon of Khorne gets sustaining an ax of Khorne, Daemon of Tzeentch a wand of change, demon of Nurgle a plague Flegel and demon of Slaanesh a spirit Rüber sword.
Then pulls the by then. We'll see if I abtippe all the rewards yet. There are certainly really nice stuff there.

Skarbrand or Bloodthirster make Daemon Prince of Khorne support selections instead HQ.
Kairos or Lord of Change make Daemon Prince of Tzeentch support selections instead HQ.
Ku'Gath or Great Unclean make Daemon Prince of Nurgle support selections instead HQ.
Keeper of Secrets makes Daemon Prince of Slaanesh support selections instead HQ.

Daemon Prince naked costs 145 points. He must become a demon of a deity:
Khorne 15P
Tzeentch 25P
Nurgle 15P
Slaanesh 10P
allowed to be flying monstrous creature 40P
may select up to 50p to demonic rewards in any combination:
small reward each 10P
mighty reward depending 20P
sublime Belohhnung per 30P
Daemon Prince, which do not belong to Khorne may be psykers:
Psi1 25P
Psi2 50P
Psi3 75P

Heralds are still depending only half HQ space. Heralds have presences official amount that can be upgraded and bring the unit bonuses.

Icons can be improved for one-off effects and instruments can get more units out of the reserve and the unpleasant results on Warpsturmtabelle favor of demons weaken by re-rolls.

[Bigred]

Google translate from German to English is notorious for its hilarious results. I'm thinking we need a German reader to help out here...

[Caitsidhe]

Google translate from German to English is notorious for its hilarious results. I'm thinking we need a German reader to help out here...

I'm sure we do although we can glean quite a bit from that.

[spaceman91]

That made my brain hurt.

[niclebel]

Epidemus disease and his interest:
As long Epidemus lives you lead all not by a guard throw prevented wounds book, the demon of Nurgle (friend or foe) are served. Furthermore you count also Wounds that have been prevented by something other than a union protection (eg ignore injury or resuscitation protocols). At the beginning of each of your turns you konsultierst the table. All demons of Nurgle in the units are received within 6 "to Epidemus the bonuses (cumulative):
7 +: +1 Strength
14 +: +1 Resistance
21 + Poison (2 +)
28 + injury ignore (4 +)


If this, combined with all the other stuff, is true, then it's a serious ****ing nerf to Nurgle units. Not much Feel No Pain anymore, a ****ty tally list. I think there's gonna be even more Tzeentch BS, maybe some more Slaanesh and probably more Khorne, but less Nurgle for sure. It's sad, but then again, I liked it when I was the only Nurgle fanboy I knew of.

[DrLove42]

Even without speaking German some bits are easy from the translation. Like Warlord Traits


1) Warlord attacks are shutdown (Instant death?)
2) Warlord has hatred everything
30 All enemy Ld tests are -1
4) All deamons in 12" may reroll Demoninc Instability
5) Reroll the warm storm tabke
6) Maybe something like deepstriking demons dont scatter?

Demonic Instability


If you lose combat, roll Ld. Every number failed by take a wound, no saves. On a double 1, every model killed that turn respawns. On a double 6 whole unit is destroyed

Epidemus is still in


7 kills +1 Strength
14 kills +1 Toughness
21 kills 2+ Poison Weapons
28+ FNP on a 4+

A lot of other, unintelligent gibberish though.

Things like the flame weapons of Tzeetch are just gibberish, and the chaos warm storm table equally so


The Khorne Skull Cannon maybe makes units count as assaulting through terrain?
Fate Weaver has all Tzeentch powers, and pyromancy, divination (prophecy), telepathy and "piomante".
Horrors are Pyskers, 11-15 Lv 2, 15-20 Lv 3 (suck it Eldar, a group of lesser demons are better pyskers than your Farseers!)

Best Guess on Warpstorm Table;

2 - Roll Instability on all units
3 - Random Deamon Character test instability on 3D6 (ouch)
4 - All Deamons -1 to invuln saves
5, 6, 8, 9 - D6 for every marked unit of a particular god. Centre blasts on them on a 6.
7 - Nothing
10 - +1 to all demonic saves
11 - Enemy pysker, test Ld on 3D6. If failed replace with Herald (OW)
12 - Spawn 2D6 + 3 Bloodletters, Horrors, Plaguebearers or Deamonettes as deep striking unit for free

[Rissan4ever]

Google translate from German to English is notorious for its hilarious results. I'm thinking we need a German reader to help out here...
Hilarious is right! From now on, I'm going to refer to Morale Checks as "Anxiety Tests."

[blueshift]

Hilarious is right! From now on, I'm going to refer to Morale Checks as "Anxiety Tests."

nightmare mode:
you have to scream it in a german accent

[Vengeance_Incarnate]

just a quick translation, please forgive my a bit rusted english


Normal deployment, no more demonic assault, no flyer only flying mc.
Demons have hatred against the opposing deity, just like chaos space marines e.g. no Slaneeshi heralds in nurgle units.
Khorne: Furious Charge, Smite on chariots at S7
Nurgle: Slow and Purposeful, Shrouded, unit composed only of Nurgle Demons count as being equipped with defensive grenades
Tzeench: Gain +3 to LD Test for casting psychic powers and reroll failed invulnerable saves at 1.
Slaneesh: Rending & Fleet, full slaneeshi units run +3”, full cavalry run +6”, non-walker vehicle boost +3”

Demonic Instability: Can only be joined or join units which also have this rule. Rule wise it’s like being fearless but if a unit lost close combat you role morale check and subtract the combat result, the result is treated as additional wounds with no saves allowed. Double 1 all lost Models get back, double 6 the whole unit is destroyed.
Warlord Traits:
1. Death Incarnate: Warlords melee attacks are done with “Instant Death”
2. Destroyer of Mortality: Warlord and his unit gain Hated (everything)
3. Herald of Doom: All Enemy Fearchecks are done with -1 less LD as long the Warlord is alive
4. Immortal Leader: All units within 12” of your warlord can reroll failed demonic instability tests.
5. Prince of Unreality: As long the Warlord is alive you can reroll Warpstorm rolls.
6. Warpbeacon: If the Warlord is on the table at the beginning of first turn, all friendly models with the demon USR do not scatter
Warpstorm:
Only if Demons are your main army, rolls are made at the beginning at the demons shooting phase with 2D6
2. The storm subsides: All units with demonic instability have to take an immediate test
3. Punished by the Gods: A random chosen character with demonic instability (friend and foe) have to take a instability test with 3D6, wounds can only allocated to that model.
4. Warpquake: All models with the USR Demon make invulnerable saves with -1 until next roll on Warpstorm table.
5. Storm of fire: Roll a D6 for every non engaged enemy unit, or units with at least one model belonging to Nurgle (Mark or Demon), on a roll of 6 centre the 5” blast marker on top of that model and let it scatter normally. The unit suffers hits equally to the number of models under the blast marker with S4 Ap5, no cover saves, barrage
6. Glorious decay: Same as above, but enemy +tzeench with D6 S4 AP3, Poisoned 4+, no cover saves, instead of 5” Blastmarker, against side armor
7. Warpsilence: Nothing happens.
8. The dark prince thirsts: like glorious decay +khorne, D6 S6 Ap-, rending, no cover saves, against side armor.
9. Khornes wrath: like storm of fire but against slaneesh 3” blast marker S8 AP3, barrage
10. Warpflood: all Models with the USR Demon gain +1 on their invulnerable saves until next roll on warpstorm table.
11. Demonic possession: choose a random enemy psyker, non-vehicle, non-demon on table, he has to take a leadership test with 3D6, if he fails he gets exchanged with a basic herald of your choice within 6” of the psyker.
12. Summoned from the Warp: A new unit composed of 2D6+3 Pink Horrors, demonettes, plague bearers or blood letters arrives via deepstrike.

[Malkuth]

My favourite piece of gibberish was definitely "Slime Beasts of Nurgle may announce in the opponent's attack phase!" :D I've no idea if there was a word missing in the original or if "announcing" is something really scary.

[lastlostboy]

Warp strom table:
At the beginning of every of your shooting phase roll 2d6.
2: all units (friend and foe) must test for demonic instability
3: a random char (friend or foe) with special rule demonic instability rolls with 3d6
4: all models with 'demon' (not demonic instability)-1 to invul saves until the next roll on the table (friend and foe)
5: roll d6 for every enemy or nurgle unit not in cloce combat. 6 = center 5" over the unit and scatter. S4 DS5, ignores cover, barrage
6: same with enemy unit and tzeentch. 6 = d6 hits, S4 DS5, ignore cover, poisen 4+, vehicles against side armor
7: nothing happens
8: same with enemy and khorne. 6 = d6 hits, S6 DS-, ignore cover, rending, vehicles against side armor
9: same with enemy unit and slaanesh. 6 = center 3" over the unit and scatter. S8 DS3, barrage.
10: ll models with 'demon' (not demonic instability)+1 to invul saves until the next roll on the table (friend and foe)
11: random enemy psychic, ld with 3d6, if it fails replace with a herold of your choice under your control, can't charge this turn
12: new unit of 2d6+3 bloodletters, horrors, plaguebearers or deamonettes as deep strike

[HERO]

Warp strom table:
At the beginning of every of your shooting phase roll 2d6.
2: all units (friend and foe) must test for demonic instability
3: a random char (friend or foe) with special rule demonic instability rolls with 3d6
4: all models with 'demon' (not demonic instability)-1 to invul saves until the next roll on the table (friend and foe)
5: roll d6 for every enemy or nurgle unit not in cloce combat. 6 = center 5" over the unit and scatter. S4 DS5, ignores cover, barrage
6: same with enemy unit and tzeentch. 6 = d6 hits, S4 DS5, ignore cover, poisen 4+, vehicles against side armor
7: nothing happens
8: same with enemy and khorne. 6 = d6 hits, S6 DS-, ignore cover, rending, vehicles against side armor
9: same with enemy unit and slaanesh. 6 = center 3" over the unit and scatter. S8 DS3, barrage.
10: ll models with 'demon' (not demonic instability)+1 to invul saves until the next roll on the table (friend and foe)
11: random enemy psychic, ld with 3d6, if it fails replace with a herold of your choice under your control, can't charge this turn
12: new unit of 2d6+3 bloodletters, horrors, plaguebearers or deamonettes as deep strike

Do you have the book on you?

If you do, some important questions please:

1. What are the real Greater Demon stats? There's literally 5 different rumors online..
2. What are some of the Locci if you remember?
3. Can you confirm that Fateweaver is now 4++?

[lastlostboy]

Do you have the book on you?

If you do, some important questions please:

1. What are the real Greater Demon stats? There's literally 5 different rumors online..
2. What are some of the Locci if you remember?
3. Can you confirm that Fateweaver is now 4++?

Sorry, I do not have the book. I'm just from germany. ;)

[for mankind]

My favourite piece of gibberish was definitely "Slime Beasts of Nurgle may announce in the opponent's attack phase!" :D I've no idea if there was a word missing in the original or if "announcing" is something really scary.

Greetings from Germany

sorry for my english

In fact it says something like:
"Beasts of nurgel may declare a charge, during the opponents close combat phase"

[for mankind]

Dämonen haben eine Zugehörigkeit zu ihrer Gottheit und jeweis Hass auf die Dämonen der verfeindeten Gottheit. Weiterhin kann sich z.B. kein Herold des Slaanesh Seuchenhütern anschließen.
Khorne: Rasender Angriff, Niederschmettern von deren Streitwagen wird mit S7 abgehandelt
Tzeentch: Beim Manifestieren von Psikräften +3 auf den Moralwert, Wiederholung von Rettungswürfen auf die 1
Nurgle: Langsam und Entschlossen, Schleier, jede Einheit, die vollständig aus Nurgledämonen besteht, wird behandelt, als hätte sie Defensivgranaten
Slaanesh: Rüstungsbrechend und Sprinten, jede vollständig aus Slaaneshdämonen bestehende Einheit rennt 3" weiter (W6+3"). Besteht sie vollständig aus Kavalleriemodellen, so rennt sie 6" weiter. Fahrzeuge, die keine Läufer sind, bewegen sich bei Vollgas 3" weiter.

Demons have an affiliation to their god, and have hate against the deamons of the enemy god.
(Tzeentch hates Nurgel, Khorne Slanesh)
And for example a Herold of Slaanesh may not join a unit of pleagubeares,
Khorne: furius charge; the impact hits of their chariots are dealt with S 7
Tzeentch: While taking psychictest they get +3 on their LD, may reroll a 1 for an inv. Save
Nurgel: slow an purposefull, veil, a unit with only demons of nurgel is treated as if it has defensiv granates
Slaanesh Rending, and fleet of foot, a unit with only models of slaanesh adds +3“ when running.
If the unit only contains cavallerimodells it runs D6+6“, vehicels, (no walkers) add +3“ when going flat out.


A really rugh translation, but you should get the picture

[lastlostboy]

kairos fateweaver:
4++
both of its heads is a level 4 psychic
both heads know all spells from 'change'
the right head knows one additional spell from pyromantie (? the fire thingy) and prophecy
the left heads knows one additinal spell from telepathy and biomantie
at the start of every turn you must declare which head you want to use
every turn he can reroll one (1) die, even out of 2d6 or 3d6

[for mankind]

Demons have an affiliation to their god, and have hate against the deamons of the enemy god.
(Tzeentch hates Nurgel, Khorne hates Slanesh)
And for example a Herold of Slaanesh may not join a unit of pleagubeares,
Khorne: furius charge; the impact hits of their chariots are dealt with S 7
Tzeentch: While taking psychictest they get +3 on their LD, may reroll a 1 for an inv. Save
Nurgel: slow an purposefull, veil, a unit with only demons of nurgel is treated as if it has defensiv granates
Slaanesh Rending, and fleet of foot, a unit with only models of slaanesh adds +3“ when running.
If the unit only contains cavallerimodells it runs D6+6“, vehicels, (no walkers) add +3“ when going flat out.

A rather quick translation of the first part of the rumors, not sure if I got the names of all the special rules right....

[HERO]

kairos fateweaver:
4++
both of its heads is a level 4 psychic
both heads know all spells from 'change'
the right head knows one additional spell from pyromantie (? the fire thingy) and prophecy
the left heads knows one additinal spell from telepathy and biomantie
at the start of every turn you must declare which head you want to use
every turn he can reroll one (1) die, even out of 2d6 or 3d6

Does that mean Kairos knows all spells of Tz, then 5 spells from either Pyromancy or Divination, in one head, and 5 spells from Telepathy or Biomancy in the other?
So for a total of 4 + 10 = 14 spells? (just like it is in fantasy)

That would make sense.

If that is true, that's godly. Take him and another Greater Daemon and cast Iron Arm. HF with that man. Divination is just a no-brainer.

[Learn2Eel]

No, I am pretty sure he means each head has one psychic power from those two disciplines; ergo one from Divination and one from Pyromancy on one head, and one from Telepathy and one from Biomancy on the other head. That is 4 Tzeentch powers + 2 rulebook powers per head, equating to a total of 12 powers across the heads, 8 of them unique. Crazy stuff.

[Learn2Eel]

Here's a compilation of Norman Mach's (I believe that is lastlostboy) post on the BoLS front page (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html).


The old placement of the army is gone.
No flyers, but flying MCs.
Demons belong to a god and have hatred to demons of an opposing god. Furthermore a Slaanesh Herald for example can't joint nurgle demons.
Khorne: Furios charge, HoW with chariot is S7
Tzeentch: +3 on Ld for casting PSI, reroll of failded inv. saves of 1
Nurgle: Shrouded, slow (don't remember the english rule name), every unit consisting just of Nurgle Demons counts equiped with defence grenade
Slaanesh: Rending and fleet, Slaanesh-only unit runs D6+3". Slaanesh cavallerie runs 6" more. Vehicles (no walker) move 3" more in the shooting phase.

Demonic Instability
Units with these rule can't be joined by a model without these role. Unit pass every Ld., pinning or fear test. If the demons are loosing a CC they must test with 2D6. The difference between mod. Ld and dice roll is the number of additional wounds without saves!
Double 1: Every lost wound in this phase is restored. Every removed model comes back.
Double 6: Remove the whole unit.

Warlord:
1) Every CC weapon of the warlord gains instant death.
2)Warlord and unit has hatred against everyone
3) As long as the WL is alive every enemy gets -1 for fear tests
4) Friendly units choosen from these codex in 12" of the WL can reroll failed demonic instability tests
5) As long as the WL is alive you can reroll every roll on the warpfire table
6) As long as the WL was on the table at the beginning of the turn, every unit with the rule demon (including from Codex: Chaos) coming via deepstrike won't scatter if the first model is placed in 6" of the WL

Warpstorm chart
Is only active when demons are the main army. Role 2D6 at the beginn of the demon shooting phase and apply the result.
2) Every unit with demonic inst. (friend and foe) has to test for it
3) Choose randomly one character with demonic inst. rule. Test with 3D6. Wounds can only applied to the character.
4) Every unit with demon gets -1 for inv. saves until next roll on the table
5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.
10) Every demon gets +1 on the inv. save.
11) Choose random one enemy Psyker (no vehicle, no demon, must be on the table). Has to take Ld test with 3D6, if he fails, he will be removed. Place a new herald of your choice without upgrades within 6". Not allowed to charge.
12) Place instantly a new unit with 2D6+3 demons (Bloodletters, pink horrors, demonettes or plague bearers, your choice) via deep strike,

Demons have 6+ armour, some have better saves (blood demon has 3+).
Blood demon no eternal warrior. The skulltaker(?) has eternal warrior and 3+ armour. Skarbrand and Karanak don't have eternal warrior. Lord of Change is Mastery Lv. 2 (divination and change(?)) and flying MC.
11 to15 pink horrors generate two warppoints, 16 to 20 horrors three warppoints. Kairos has a 4+ inv. save. Each of Kairos heads is a Lv. 4 Psyker. Both heads knew every change spell. In addition gains the right head on power from pyro and one divination. Left head - one pyro and one telepathy. Have to decide which head you use these turn. Can reroll one D6 every player turn (even from 2D6 or 3D6).
The blue Tzeentch demons are no psykers, but can use one power from the rulebook rolled with the dice without psy test.
Changeling in basecontact can replace one his stats (WS, S, T, I and/ or A) with one the enemy.
Big plague demon has mastery lv. 1 and plague and biomanty.
Nurgle slime beast can charge in the enemy phase! Ku'Gath can give wounds back to Nurgle Swarms.
Epidemus and his special rule
Count every unsaved wound caused by a demon of nurgle (friend and foe). Count even lost wounds saved by fnp or reanimation protocolls. Every Nurgle unit in 6" of Epidemus gains following bonus (cumulative)
7+: +1 strength
14+: +1 toughness
21+: poison (2+)
28+: fnp (4+)

Keeper of secrets has prefered enemy Eldar/ Dark Eldar. Mastery Lv. 1 telepathy and Slaanesh party lore.
The mask can reroll every failed inv. save. Has different dance.
There are chaos furies (maybe chaos harpyies in english).

Flame weapon of tzeentch - SR warpflame. At the end of every phase a unit with an unsaved wound caused by it has to make a Toughness test. Fail - D3 more hits withour armour or cover, passed - gains fnp 6+. If the unit has already fnp it be better by +1.
A unit hit by a skullcannon can be charged withount Ini loss caused by difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne: Instant death by a to wound roll of 6.
Mutated warpsword (Tzeentch) If the bearer kills an enemy Character or MC roll a D6. On a +2 it be replaced with a chaos spawn.
Warp...(Tzeentch): A character or MC killed by the staff of change will explode. Every unit in D6" will gain D6 S5 AP- hits.
Plagueweapon: Models with one unsaved wound caused by these weapon have to pass a Toughness test or will loose another wound (no armour or cover).
Sword (Slaanesh). Like plagueweapon, but with Ini test.

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

Skarbrand or Blood Demon make demon princes of Khorne to Heavy Support instead of HQ.
Kairos and Lord of Change do the same for Tzeentch.
Ku'Gath and Big Nurgle demon for Nurgle.
Lord of Secrets does it for Slaanesh.

Damonprince 145 points, has to choose one god:
Khorne 15p.
Tzeentch 25p.
Nurgle 15p.
Slaanesh 10p.
Can be a flying MC for 40 points.
Up to 50 points for gifts (Lv. 1 gift 10p. Lv. 2 20p. Lv. 3 30).
Demon Prince not can be a psyker (not Khorne)
Mastery Lv. 1 25p.
Lv. 2 50p.
Lv. 3 75p.

Heralds counts only as a half HQ choice. They have special presences. which can be upgraded and give the unit a bonus.
Icons can be upgraded for unique effects and instruments can get more units out of reserve and give you rerolls on the warpstorm table.

Thats all. I hope that my bad english is better than the automatic translator.

Holy hell. I think the sheer amount of random is going to make a lot of people very unhappy. This makes Chaos Space Marines seem like a control freak's dream than anything else.
My thoughts;

Strength 7 Hammer of Wrath on Chariots is cool. Nurgle Daemons alone get defensive grenades, which is also cool. Slaanesh cavalry run that get an additional 6" to Run movements? :eek: And the 3" extra Run movement applies to vehicles as well - Slaanesh truly is the quickest god right now.
Daemonic Instability isn't as bad as I had feared, but still nasty. Whilst Daemon units usually will win combat, it is still something to look out for - especially with the Warpstorm chart. Essentially Fearless still, so no going to ground. Units that don't have the rule can't join units with the rule - I suspect this is how they intend to prevent Chaos Lords and the like from preventing Daemon units (which sucks!), though from the rumours a Herald either removes this rule or ignores it. Interesting to see which one. Also, the results of rolling a double 1 or double 6 are sure to give players a very nervy time - on both sides! Both are highly unlikely, but still, the chance to remove the whole unit because of one lost combat, or to gain every model lost in that turn back? Crazy!

The Warlord chart looks better than most (if not all) the other Warlord charts I've seen so far in the context of the army. Instant Death on your combat weapons is nuts, especially on a unit such as a Bloodthirster. Hatred against everyone from the Warlord and its unit is bloody good too. -1 for Fear tests is situational, but helpful against the right opponents. Friendly units re-rolling Daemonic Instability tests within 12" is massive, given how dangerous it normally is. The fifth one is also very good, particularly if you roll something like a four or a two - as in, really good, though I feel a lot of players won't risk using it unless the first roll they make was a really bad one. The last one is very good, from what I can tell it makes your Warlord a free Icon. Overall, a pretty good warlord chart with only one situational/bad roll (the Fear one).

The Warpstorm chart.....well, this codex definitely won't be for people who don't enjoy random effects, though it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Two is terrible, and is one of many reasons that Heralds appear to be so necessary now. Thankfully, it is not a "remove the army from the table" effect; it seems most Daemons have decent Leadership (i.e. 7 or higher) and thus this actually shouldn't be too bad, considering there are no modifiers to the roll. You should still expect to lose a handful of models across the army though. Three is worse, though I think it must only apply to Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons - Heralds apparently don't have to test for daemonic instability and apply it to their unit. The average roll is 10-11, meaning as long as you don't roll badly you should be fine though. Four is arguably the worst of the bunch - I read somewhere else it only affects units with daemonic instability though? The five/six/eight/nine rolls may look bad, being for every enemy unit on the table plus specific god units, but it is only on a roll of a 6+. Ergo, that's probably one unit per side affected. So essentially, you'll be doing damage to both parties. And if you are lucky/your opponent has a lot of units, you can do some decent damage to - image that S8 AP3 Barrage Large Blast hitting a few Space Marine units? Seven is thankfully good, despite its inertness. Ten is nuts. Eleven is situational, but generally speaking most armies in 6th have at least one psyker in their armies, so this is quite good. It would also be absolutely devastating to enemies relying on expensive psykers - 3D6 averages to 10-11, meaning you would effectively have a 50% to remove Draigo, the Swarmlord, Mephiston, Eldrad and the like from the table just like that. Insane! Twelve is pretty crazy, provided you don't roll badly - an average of 10 new Daemons spawned, for free. That is a great move that could be used near the end of the game to plonk a unit on a previously empty objective. Overall, this chart is full of game-changers - both good and bad. Personally, I like it. It isn't as bad as we might have feared, but not as good as we would have hoped. I think it will make Daemons a very fun army to play against, though I think tournament players might shy away from them solely for this chart.

I'm not sure why all Daemons have 6+ armour saves or better. I am assuming it must be for future codex releases that may feature units that ignore invulnerable saves but not armour saves - Grey Knights anyone? The 'Blood Demon' is obviously the Bloodthirster, and it also confirms Greater Daemons (and presumably the army as a whole) has lost Eternal Warrior, save a few special characters. Skulltaker sounds neat with Eternal Warrior - if his cost has dropped and he is still as killy as he was, he should make a fine unit. A Lord of Change being Mastery Level 2 base is ok, though I expect they have upgrades that can take them up to at least Level 3. Divination and Tzeentch :cool: Awesome! No really, that is truly awesome! Horrors look fair, they can't be Mastery Level 4 psykers but at least they sound pretty neat. Kairos only having a 4+ invulnerable save is odd, though I assume as before he re-rolls all failed invulnerable saves as opposed to the Tzeentch trait of re-rolling 1s. And YES! Kairos has two level 4 psykers, each knowing six (?) powers! Awesome stuff! And re-rolling one D6 each player turn is whacky, to say the least. I'm sure the applications of that are not lost on others - though it depends on whether it is just in relation to Kairos or if you can do it to any D6 rolled across the game. The Blue Scribes sound more forgiving than before, and no psychic test either? That's better. The Changeling sounds funny as hell, imagine placing him against a Wraithlord - Toughness 8 Changeling! Great Unclean One being mastery level 1 psykers, and with access to Biomancy (and Nurgle) no less. Neat! Kugath giving wounds back to Nurglings is cool. Epidemius has definitely been nerfed, though I expect him to be cheaper now. Well, at least it has gotten rid of those broken combos - it also only affects Nurgle Daemons now, so no Allied shenanigans there.

I had to laugh at the Preferred Enemy Eldar/Dark Eldar bit for the Keeper of Secrets. I love Kelly's thinking. Though I guess this confirms that there is still no special character Keeper of Secrets. Mastery Level 1 with Telepathy and Slaanesh. You know, Daemons have access to the three best rulebook lores in the game. Divination is absolutely huge, but we still get Biomancy and Telepathy for good measure. Awesome! Also, have to see how good (or bad) the codex powers are. The Masque re-rolling failed saves is good.
Oh dear - why Warpflame, why? It was terrible for Warriors of Chaos, and it is terrible here. Dammit. Oh well. The Skullcannon bit is good, and in effect is an obvious "take me thrice" move by GW - Khorne Daemons suffer majorly with the lack of assault grenades, and this solves this, and it is a new kit too! *wink wink* Lol. The Axe of Khorne sounds nice, though I am guessing it is +1 Strength AP2 no Unwieldy. That Mutated Warpsword is laughably good, especially considering Chaos Spawn no longer suck. I am assuming Daemon Princes/Lords of Change have access to it (though probably only the former). The Staff of Change is pretty funny, and I am assuming each Lord of Change comes with that base (look at the model). The PlagueWeapon is decent, as is the Slaanesh equivalent. Of course, we need to know points costs before we can say more. I'm guessing the characters that don't buy equipment are the Heralds and possibly the Greater Daemons. That you can switch out the result for a '0' result that is really good ala Fantasy Daemons is great, sounds like you get a nice weapon - an AP2 one no less, and I am guessing each weapon you get is based on what level of reward you picked (ergo an exalted reward would give some crazy weapon). Interesting to see what the other results are though.

This bit is the best and I am sure will make a lot of players breathe a deep sigh of relief - Daemon Princes moving back to Heavy Support if you take the equivalent god-favouring Greater Daemon is awesome, and it also allows you to take Daemon Princes as Warlords now if you so choose, which makes sense in a way. Though some will complain you can't take say a Bloodthirster with three Tzeentch Daemon Princes anymore, this is obviously another design point meant to favour mono-god builds. As far as Daemon Princes go, I am surprised that Tzeentch is so expensive. That +3 for passing psychic tests may be why, given that I assume a Chaos Daemons Daemon Prince is Leadership 8 (the CSM one is Leadership 9 with VotLW), that is very handy. I am actually starting to wonder whether that +3 for passing psychic tests can take your 'total' beyond 10...i.e. you could pass on an 11. I guess not.
Well there you go - Daemon Princes use rewards too. And it looks like they are quite cheap. Level 3 is only 30 points, and from the sounds of it can provide great buffs? Me likey.....The Heralds staying as they were indicates they are really pushing them. Instruments giving re-rolls on the warp-storm chart sound great, and uniquely upgradeable icons? Sweet.

Thanks a lot mate!

[lastlostboy]

horrors:
aren't psychers, they just generate warp points
11-15 two warp points
16-20 three warp points

the blue scribes:
aren't psychers but can use a random psychic power without a psychic test from crb

great unclean one:
level one psychic, can take powers from biomancy and 'plague'

keeper of secrets:
level one psychic, can take powers from telepathy and 'excess'
preferred enemy (eldar & dark eldar)

and one really wicked one:
the skulltaker is the only one with eternal warrior


post script: this thing above is not from me!

[HERO]

No, I am pretty sure he means each head has one psychic power from those two disciplines; ergo one from Divination and one from Pyromancy on one head, and one from Telepathy and one from Biomancy on the other head. That is 4 Tzeentch powers + 2 rulebook powers per head, equating to a total of 12 powers across the heads, 8 of them unique. Crazy stuff.

How is that a total of 12?

4 from Tz, 2 per head x2 = 8.

[rpricew]

/snip
Count every unsaved wound caused by a demon of nurgle (friend and foe). Count even lost wounds saved by fnp or reanimation protocolls. Every Nurgle unit in 6" of Epidemus gains following bonus (cumulative)
7+: +1 strength
14+: +1 toughness
21+: poison (2+)
28+: fnp (4+)
So does that mean Nurgle Demons vs Nurgle Demons would make the tally go up on both sides (you increase my tally & I increase yours)?

[Anggul]

Most of it sounds good to me... except for that 11 result on the Warp Storm table. That's just ridiculous.

[Learn2Eel]

How is that a total of 12?

4 from Tz, 2 per head x2 = 8.

Errr. 4 Tzeentch powers per head. That's eight in total. Then one power from two rulebook disciplines. Four +1 from Divination +1 from Telepathy = 6 powers. That is per head (the other one gets one power from Biomancy and one power from Pyromancy). Capiche? I did say eight unique, but I meant that you can 'potentially' cast twelve powers across two pskers.

[Learn2Eel]

So does that mean Nurgle Demons vs Nurgle Demons would make the tally go up on both sides (you increase my tally & I increase yours)?

Yep, that's the way it used to work as well, though it also extended to friendly and enemy Nurgle Chaos Space Marines.

Hey guys, thought I would also clarify that according to someone on another forum (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?358267-Daemons-in-February-2013/page67), the guy on that GWFW website also posted up the Toughness values for each Nurgle unit;


via korgull

Then cry!
Nurgle toughtness:
GUO 7
plague bearers 4
Herald of Nurgle 5
Beast of Nurgle 5
Plague drones of Nurgle 5
Nurglinge 3
Ku’Gath 7
Epidemus 5

this is confirmed!
Thanks to Phonon @ GWFW

So, Toughness 7 Great Unclean Ones? Neat! Might not make a difference against Bolters, but it certainly helps against other high strength weaponry and lasguns.

Also, read this (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=8000066) from What's New Today. I laughed my head off at the bit where the Herald lures' the Exalted Flamer away from its chariot and steals it. It even says 'the Exalted Flamer is not amused' :cool: As well, it contains an interesting tidbit; when Pink Horrors die, they 'explode' into Blue Horrors. Apparently for each Horror that dies you put a marker next to the enemy unit dealing the wounds (in close combat). Funny.

Anyone else notice the Warp Storm chart is only in effect if Daemons are the primary detachment?

Holy.....you know on those Daemonic Gift charts the 'Primaris' (0 result you can take if you roll something you don't want) gives you a weapon, and that an example was an AP2 weapon? Yeah, well you know those special weapons from earlier? Those are what you get on the lesser chart. Jeez!

People were wondering how a SoulGrinder took out two flyers in two turns in the White Dwarf battle report? Here's how; the Harvester (it's basic gun) has been upgraded to a 3-shot Autocannon with two profiles - one normal, the other with Skyfire. Nice!

[HERO]

Errr. 4 Tzeentch powers per head. That's eight in total. Then one power from two rulebook disciplines. Four +1 from Divination +1 from Telepathy = 6 powers. That is per head (the other one gets one power from Biomancy and one power from Pyromancy). Capiche? I did say eight unique, but I meant that you can 'potentially' cast twelve powers across two pskers.

I guess... although realistically, you have 8 spells. It's a super awkward way of looking at it.

Edit: So is each head a Lv.4? My heads going to explode as I can't follow **** right now.

[Learn2Eel]

Hahaha yeah I did mean to say that eight unique bit first, I'm the same - my head is a bit scrambled too! And yes, each head is a Level 4 psyker :D Though you have to choose which head you are using each turn. I.e. say you rolled Endurance for Biomancy and your opponent is gunning for a Pink Horror blob on the last turn to wipe them off the objective. Cast Endurance on them. Or give Prescience to a unit of Screamers. Damn, the possibilities with Fateweaver are amazing.

Edit: Woah! Khorne Daemons have Rage and re-roll charge distances! This is according to another translation over here (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1320/470602.page). That's insane!

[HERO]

Hahaha yeah I did mean to say that eight unique bit first, I'm the same - my head is a bit scrambled too! And yes, each head is a Level 4 psyker :D Though you have to choose which head you are using each turn. I.e. say you rolled Endurance for Biomancy and your opponent is gunning for a Pink Horror blob on the last turn to wipe them off the objective. Cast Endurance on them. Or give Prescience to a unit of Screamers. Damn, the possibilities with Fateweaver are amazing.


I did say eight unique, but I meant that you can 'potentially' cast twelve powers across two pskers.

I would honestly stop saying extra numbers that don't really come into practice.

Each head is a Lv.4, but you can only do 1 per turn, so regardless you're a Lv.4 for all intensive purposes when casting. You can only cast up to 4 warp charges per turn. I don't know why you have to say cast 12 powers, or even more powers.

[Learn2Eel]

I've still got the Fantasy mind-set back when he had 14 powers and could technically cast half in each turn.
And yeah....that Khorne Daemon change.....crazy stuff. Bloodletters with pseudo Fleet and 4 attacks each on the charge, probably in addition to Furious Charge? If they are indeed only one popsickle cheaper than before, I think it is justified. Especially when combined with a SkullCannon that essentially gives them assault grenades.

[HERO]

Slaanesh: Rending, Move thru Cover, +3” to run distance for infantry, +6 “to run distance for cavalry (only if the whole unit is cavalry), +3” Flat out for chariots

What about the Keeper? The BR said that he can make it into combat on T2.

This means he's either Beasts, MC, or also benefits from the +3" at least.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm assuming it gets it as well.

By the way, two Nurgle weapons (including the Plaguebearers' one) have a 'Touch of Rust' ability that auto-glances a vehicle on a 6+ unless it would otherwise penetrate it. :cool:

Also, Faeit is going into meltdown :rolleyes: The amount of people saying Phil Kelly needs to die/the codex is horrible when we still don't know points costs and a lot of rules is making my sides hurt.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Greetings from Germany

sorry for my english

In fact it says something like:
"Beasts of nurgel may declare a charge, during the opponents close combat phase"

Aye.
I second this translation.

"Slimebeasts of Nurgle may declare charges during the opponents Assault Phase"

I'm afraid I have no interest in Daemons, so I'm not going to translate the whole thing just because, but if anyone wants specific sections translated, I can do that.

[Learn2Eel]

Hey mate, where statlines or points costs for Greater Daemons mentioned - i.e. stuff we haven't already seen? Cheers.

[HERO]

I'm assuming it gets it as well.

By the way, two Nurgle weapons (including the Plaguebearers' one) have a 'Touch of Rust' ability that auto-glances a vehicle on a 6+ unless it would otherwise penetrate it. :cool:

Also, Faeit is going into meltdown :rolleyes: The amount of people saying Phil Kelly needs to die/the codex is horrible when we still don't know points costs and a lot of rules is making my sides hurt.

Yup, pretty much.

-Shrike-February 26, 2013 at 3:09 PM
Model random upgrades? You don't. You put the base down on the table, roll to see what you get, and spend the rest of the day playing with liquid green stuff, telling your opponent you're "just making the model WYSIWYG". With a bit of luck, they'll concede the game, so you can claim victory with a codex so retarded it makes Twilight look like Lord of the Rings.

rofl^

[Learn2Eel]

To be honest, it's just people blowing off steam because they don't like changes to their army lists. They'll settle down eventually.

And yeah, that comment made my day.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Daemon Princes are 145pts base.

It has to be aligned to a god:
Khorne+15pts
Tzeentch +25pts
Nurgle +15pts
Slaanesh +10pts

Can be made Flying Monstrous Creatures for +40pts

Can buy up to 50pts of Daemonic Blessings, in any combination:
Minor Blessing +10pts
Mighty Blessing +20pts
Exalted Blessing +30pts

Non-Khornate Daemon Princes can be upgraded into Psykers/Sorcerors:
Psyker Level 1 +25pts
Psyker Level 2 +50pts
Psyker Level 3 +75pts



Dämonenprinz kostet nackt 145 Punkte. Er muss zu einem Dämon einer Gottheit werden:
Khorne 15P
Tzeentch 25P
Nurgle 15P
Slaanesh 10P
darf zur fliegenden monströsen Kreatur werden 40P
darf bis zu 50P an dämonischen Belohnungen wählen in beliebiger Kombination:
geringe Belohnung je 10P
mächtige Belohung je 20P
erhabene Belohhnung je 30P
Dämonenprinzen, welche nicht zu Khorne gehören, dürfen Psioniker werden:
Psi1 25P
Psi2 50P
Psi3 75P



Skarbrand or Bloodthirsters make Khornate Daemon Princes into (Heavy?) Support units instead of HQ units.
Kairos or Lords Of Change make Tzeenthcian Daemon Princes into (Heavy?) Support units instead of HQ units.
Ku'Gath or Great Unclean Ones make Nurgle Daemon Princes into (Heavy?) Support units instead of HQ units.
Keepers Of Secrets make Slaaneshi Daemon Princes into (Heavy?) Support units instead of HQ units.

Skarbrand oder Blutdämon machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Khorne Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Kairos oder Herrscher des Wandels machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Tzeentch Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Ku’Gath oder Großer Verpester machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Nurgle Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Hüter der Geheimnisse macht aus Dämonenprinzen des Slaanesh Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.

[The Emperor's Champion]

So, no info on stats or pts for Greater Daemons, but they shuffle Daemon Princes to Heavy Support and we have an idea of what Daemon Princes are like. So if Greater Daemons are apparently meant to be more powerful than Daemon Princes, they're gonna be pretty insane.

[HERO]

http://imgur.com/a/Oulir

GET THEM BEFORE THEYRE GONE

as you can see, a lot of confusion comes from there being TWO Demon books, one for Fantasy and one for 40K.

The rumored rules as we know it might be completely different.

[Learn2Eel]

Thanks guys.

By the way, that album is purely Fantasy.

[Learn2Eel]

Well, well, well.
According to someone who has been reading the German forums, all Lesser Daemons are now 9 points, except for Bloodletters which are 10 points.
Please be true! I want my daemonic hordes! And plus, it would make sense given that Plaguebearers are now T4 and have lost Feel No Pain.
As well, there have been profiles and stuff posted for some characters. I'm not sure of their validity but here they are nonetheless (I got this from Dakka (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/forum.php));


via Rakarsis

Nurgle Herald (45 pts)
ws 5 bs 5 t 5 w 2 i 4 a 3 ld 8
may take up to 30 points in gifts.
May be psyker up to level 2 for 25 points each.
May take presence of virulence: 10 points the model and its unit got poison 2+
Presence of fertility 20 points the model and its unit gain feel no pain.
Presence of affliction. 25 points. the model and his unit gains for every 6 on the enemys to hit rolls instantly attack with s4 ap - and poison 4+ (next to the normal attacks)
Can still take this throne thingie, forgot the name in english. 45 points
Gains +2 w +1 a and is bulky.

Juggernaut of Khorne: +1 t +1 w + 1 a and becomes cavalery.

Disk of Tzeentch: +1 a and jetbike

Horse of Slaanesh: +1 a and outflanking and acute senses. also becomes cavalry

Skarbrand (225 pts)
ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9 sv 3+
every unit (friend and foe) within 12" have rage and hatred (everything!)
got a s 5 ap - flamer...
his weapons:
murder : s user ap 2 lifebane
deathstrike s user ap 2 armorbane
his warlord trait is the all attacks cause isntant death.

Skulltaker (100 pts)
ws 9 bs 9 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 9 a 4 ld 8 sv3+
always has to accsept and issue challenges.
got eternal warrior and his sword is
s user ap 3 soulblaze and kills on 6's
comes with the adamant will presence.
may take a jugger for 45 points.

Karanak (120 points)
ws 7 bs 0 s 5 t 5 w 3 i 6 a 4 ld 6 sv 6+
before placing the armys on the board nominate his prey(character). as long as this model is alive karanak rerolls all to hit and to wound rolls against the prey and its unit
got the rage presence from the start.

Apparently Fateweaver has the 're-roll Warp Storm chart results' Warlord chart. I will update with any more stuff.

Mmmm.....I'm starting to think some of this stuff is fake. Skarbrand and Bloodthirsters are only S6, but have ridiculously high Initiative? Huh?

Ummm....from the amount of stuff this guy is posting, it seems to be true. I must say though; Bloodletters are apparently T3 with only 1 attack. There is literally too much stuff to post so I won't bother. But going off the quote above, could anyone say "buffed to the stratosphere" for Skarbrand? He wounds everything on a 2+, inflicting instant death with 6 WS10 attacks at I10. What the....!? At 225 points too....jeez. If this stuff is true, Daemons are one hell of a different army. One thing I have to note is that Khorne characters now have the highest BS. Given that the Skull Cannon is BS5, this isn't that much of a stretch. I think, if true, Kelly is basically saying "martial prowess" also extends to ranged combat. It isn't that bad a reason really.

EDIT: Oh yes they are genuine! Pictures have been posted - it is in German though. I'll start posting some more stuff right away.....after I've gone through it all :p

[HERO]

Coming as I get them... Will be updated a few times.

All deamons still got a 5+ invul, this counts also for every vehicle.



Lesser Gifts:1: burning blood. each time you take a unsaved wound the enemy that caused the wound suffers d3 s 4 hits with ds 5. no cover saves allowed. those wounds count towards the combat result
2: cleaving strike: each hit on a 6 causes the daemon to strike with double strength (max 10)
3: corrosive breath : flame : s 5 ap 5 assault 1 armorbane
4: spellbreaker: the daemon got the rule adamantium will
5: warpbreath: 18" s 8 ap 4 assault 1 soulblaze
6: warpstalker : the daemon and his unit get +1 on reserve rolls..

you may also decide to change your roll for the
0: magical weapon. the daemon gains a aetherblade (s user ap 2, mastercrafted specialist weapon).
daemons of khorne may take a bloodaxe ( s user ap 2 instand death on 6's specialist weapon),
daemons of tzeentch a stave of change (s+2 ap 4, concussive, specialist weapon. warpcurse: a model slain by the user of this weapon explodes and hits every unit within 6" inculding the user of the stave for d6 s 5 ap - hits) ,
daemons of nurgle a mace of pestilence (s+1 ap - specialist weapon, disease: for each unsaved wound the model has to make a toughness check or suffer another wound without armor/coversaves)

daemons of slaanesh a ghostreaver sword. ( s user ap 5 rending, specialist weapon, ghostreaver: same as the nurgle one but initiative test)

Greater Gifts:
1: corpulence : the daemon got +1 toughness and the special rule it will not die
2. daemonic toughness the daemon got the special rule feel no pain (4+)
3. dark blessing: the daemon may reroll failed invul saves
4 hellfiregaze : 18" s 8 ap 1 assault 1 lance
5 touch of decay the close combat attacks of the daemon got armorbane and lifebane
6 unbreakable skin, the daemon gets a 3+ armor save.

and the 0 if you decide for it:

mighty magical weapon:
you gain a mighty aetherblade (s +1 ap 2 mastercrafted, specialist weapon

daemons of khorne may take a bloodblade: (s user ap 2, specialist weapon, unwieldly, bloodthirst: the wielder gains the special rule rampage
daemons of tzeentch may take the mutating warpblade (s user ap 3, specialist weapon, warpmutation: a character slain with with weapon becomes a chaos spawn on a 2+
daemons of nurgle may take pestielnce sword (s user ap - poison 4+ instand death. specialist weapon, rustbreath: every armor pen throw of 6 is automatically a glancing hit if it wouldnt be a penetrate allready)
daemons of slaanesh may take whip of despair ( 12" s user ap - assault 2w6)

Exalted Gifts:
1: blessed twice: roll twice again on this chart. reroll another 1. xou apply both results without further costs
2: riftbringer: at the end of close combat phase in wich the daemon caused at least 1 unsaved wound you roll 2w6 and add 1 for each 3 unasved wounds the daemon caused. is the sum is 9 or higher a new unit of daemons will be created like the warpstorm table result number 12
3: souleater: at the end of the close combat phase, if the daemon caused at least one unsaved wound you roll a d6. on a 2+ the daemon gains another lifepoint (and may go up to 10 lifepoints)
4: unholy rage : the daemon gains the special rules rampage and rage
5: warpflame. the first time this daemon is slain dont remove him from the game but take him from the table instead. the daemon may come back from reserve with 1 wound remaining.
6: winds of chaos : 24" s 2w6 ap 4 assault 1 3" explosiv. fluktuation : roll the strenght after caling the target, if its 11 or 12 its counting as s10 but is a 5" blast instead of 3"

and the 0 again:
the daemon may take a hellforged artifact of his choise from the armory.. note that these are uniqe and only once taken:

eternal blade: s +1 ap - specialist weapon, honorseeker: at the beginning of the assault phase in wich the wielder is bound to roll a d3. the result will be granted to the wielders WS, initiative and attacks.

grimoire of true names: you may use it at any time in your movement phase. the target hast to be within 24" and at least one model with the special rule daemon has to be within the unit.
is the unit a enemy it has -1 on reserve rolls. is the unit a friendly unit roll a d6. on a 1-2 the all models in the unit (except the user) with the special rule daemon suffer -1 on the reserve rolls. if you roll a 3+ all models with the rule daemon have +2 on their invulnerable saves until your next turn.

portalglyph: may be used once per game. you may place it in the movement phase (does not matter when) place a 3" blast within 12" around the user. and let it scatter 4d6. if the marker goes off the board or cannot be placed it will move the distance so it can be placed (droppod) after that its a vehicle with the following profile : bs 0 12/12/12 hp 1

after placing the portalglyph you roll a d6 at the end of your movement phase. on a 4+ a new unit of d6 daemons (of your choisem horrors, daemonettes, plaguebearers or bloodletters) the unit got no upgrades but counts as a normal unit of its type.

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

Psychic Powers
Tzeentch: primaris: 24" s 5 ap 4 assault 2d6, warpflames, soulfire. 1 warpcharge.
for each additional warpcharge you gain a additional d6
1-2: 24" S d6 +1 assault 1 3" explosive, warpflames
3-4: 24" beam s d6+4 ap 2 assault 1 warpflames
5-6: witchfire: 18" s d6+4 ap 1 assault 1 explosive 3" warpflames.

Nurgle:
primaris: witchfire : flame s - ap 3 assault 1 poison 4+
1-2 : witchfire, 12" s 1 ap 2 assault 1 5" blast 4+ poison.
3-4 : blessing, the psyker gains at the beginning of each assault phase a d3. all enemys in base contact have the score reduced on their WS and initiative
5-6 : nova: every enemy within 12" has to do a toughness test or suffer a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the unit loses a model it has to do another toughness check and so on and so on.

Slaanesh
primaris : beam ; 24" s 6 ap - rending assault 1
1-2 : malediction, a enemy within 18" has -5 initiative and can not use the special rule counter attack nor can it overwatch
3-4 : 24" focused witchfire. enemy has to do a leaderchip tests or takes a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the model dies you nominate another random model in the unit. and so on and so on....
5-6 : nova : 12" every enemy has to roll 2w6 on and take the ld of the result. for every point remaining on this roll the unit suffers a wound without armor or cover saves allowed. after that the units have to do a pinning test-

Banners
horrors can for additional 20 points get the banner of curse... wich once per game causes a additional 2d6 s 4 ds - hits to any unit hit.

nurgle banner is :once per game all models in the unit have poisoned weapons 2+

slanesh: every enemy in base contact with the banner has -3 ws

Skarbrand
ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9 sv 3+
every unit (friend and foe) within 12" have rage and hatred (everything!)
got a s 5 ap - flamer...
his weapons
murder : s user ap 2 lifebane
deathstrike s user ap 2 armorbane
225 points. his warlord trait is the all attacks cause instant death.

Bloodthirster
250 points
ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 9 a 6 ld 9 Sv 3+
axe of khorne (instantdeath on 6s)
whip of khorne ( 12" s 6 ds 2 assault 1)
may take up to 50 points in daemonic gifts.

Skulltaker
ws 9 bs 9 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 9 a 4 ld 8 sv3+
always has to accsept and issue challenges.
got eternal warrior and his sword is
s user ap 3 soulblaze and kills on 6's
comes with the adamant will presence.
may take a jugger for 45 points. he costs 100 points

Karanak 120 points
ws 7 bs 0 s 5 t 5 w 3 i 6 a 4 ld 6 sv 6+
before placing the armys on the board nominate his prey(character). as long as this model is alive karanak rerolls all to hit and to wound rolls against the prey and its unit
got the rage presence from the start.

Flesh Hounds
16pts
ws 5 bs 0 s 4 t 4 w 2 i 4 a 2 ld 7 sv 6+/5++
scouts
collar of khorne: +2 on deny the witch rolls.

Khorne Heralds
55 points
ws 7 bs 7 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 6 a 3 ld 6 sv 6+
30 points into gifts
lesser presence of stubborness (may misstranlate here): 10 points the model and his unit have adamantium will
presence of rage : 20 points the model and his unit gain rage
presence of wrath: 25 points the model and his unit got hatred (everything!)
may take a juggernaught 45 points or a
Juggernaut ; +1 t +1 w + 1 a and becomes cavalry.
bloodthrone for 75 points

Bloodthrone
bs 0 12/12/10 3 hullpoints.
if the bloodthrone causes at least one hammer of wrath wound he regains a hullpoint on a 4+

a herald on a bloodthrone brings his presence to every khorne unit within 6" instead of only the unit he is in.

open topped transport but can only carry the herald

Bloodcrushers
ws 5 bs 5 s 5 t 4 w 3 i 4 a 4 ld 7 sv 6+
hellblades. and they cost 5 points more then currently.

one may become a bloodhunter for 5 points gaining 1 attack and can take up to 20 points in gifts.
may take instrument, icon and banner.



Bloodletter
10pts
hellblades - ap 3.
WS 5 bs 5 s 4 t 3 w 1 i 4 a 1 ld 7 sv 6+
one may be a hellfighter with the possibility to get up to 20 points in rewards.

one may take instrument of chaos 10 points, (if you deepstrike this unit you may nominate another unit of the same god to deepstrike right after them without reserve roll. in addition the warpstrom table roll of the same god wich wipes on the opposing god you may reroll the d6 if the unit is hit.

one may take ikon of chaos 10 points and may (still a homer but only works for units fo the same god) upgrade that for banner of blood for 10 points. ( the unit may once per game assault 6"+d6 instead of 2d6.

Ku'gath
260pts
ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t7 w 7 i 4 a 6 ld 9

still got his 4+ pieplate but its ap 3 now.
psyker level 1
and can heal 1 w per turn on a single unit of nurglings...

Great Unclean One
190 points
ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t 7 w 6 i 4 a 5 ld 9
psyker level 1
poison (4+)
cann roll for pestilence and biomancy. may be upgraded up to psyker level 3 for 25 pts per level.
may take 50 points of lesser, mighty and exhalted gifts.

Nurgle Herald
ws 5 bs 5 t 5 w 2 i 4 a 3 ld 8
45 points. may take up to 30 points in gifts.
may be psyker up to level 2 for 25 points each.
may take presence of virulence: 10 points the model and its unit got poison 2+
presence of fertility 20 points the model and its unit gain feel no pain.
presence of affliction. 25 points. the model and his unit gains for every 6 on the enemy's to hit rolls instantly attack with s4 ap - and poison 4+ (next to the normal attacks)
palanquin 45 points: gains +2 w +1 a and is bulky.

Plaguebearer
9pts
ws 3 bs 3 s 4 t 4 w 1 i 2 a 1 ld 7
daemon of nurgle so really they are shrouded... but no fnp nor t 5

Fateweaver
300pts
ws 1 bs 6 s 5 t 5 w 5 i 2 a 1 ld 9 4+ invul.
can reroll a single dice per turn.
psyker level 4. one head knows all of tzeentch +1 roll on pyromancy and prophecy, the other one knows all tzeentch and 1 roll on telepathy and biomancy you have to decide wich head is used at the start of every turn.

no longer make a ld or dissapear after getting wounded.
no reroll bubble

Lord of Change
230pts
ws 6 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 6 a 5 ld 9 and 5+ invul (like every other daemon)
starts as psyker level 2. can get a additional level for the same price as others.
can roll on tzeentch lore and divination.
can take up to 50 points in gifts.

Herald of Tzeentch
45 points
ws 3 bs 4 s 3 t 3 lp 2 i 3 a 2 ld 8
psyker level 1. prophecy and change as powers.
may take up to 30 points in daemonic gifts.
psyker levels up to 3 for 25 points each.
take up to three presences.
presence of tranmorification 10 points ( for each dead horror you place d3 blue horror markers instead of 1)
presence of change 20 points you roll a d6 at the start of each turn. your model and his unit gain the strength of the d6 roll.
presence of conjuration: 25 points +1 strength on the power of psychic powers by the model and his unit.
may take a disk of tzeentch 25 points
Disk of tzeentch: +1 a and jetbike
chariot of tzeentch 50 pts

Chariot of Tzeentch
100 pts flat.
10/10/10 all around 3 hp
flamer on the inside got 3 lp otherwise same profile as the rest.
my take the blue horror upgrade 10 pts (-1 ld for every enemy within 6".
can take up to 20 pts in gifts
open topped, fast, skimmer, chariot.

Flamers
same, but loose awesome flamer attack, replaced with
s4 ap4 and causes warpflame wich basically causes the enemy to force a toughness check after wounds have been caused. if he fails he suffers d3 additional wounds without armor or cover allowed. if he makes the test he gains 6+ feel no pain or if the unit already got feel no pain it becomes better by 1.. they cost the same as of the update.

Screamers
same (and re-roll 1)

Pink Horrors
9pts
ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 3 a 1 ld 7
for psychic tests they add +3 to the ld
Blue horrors: if a pink horror is slain place a blue horror marker.. at initiative 1 the blue horror attacks causing the enemy unit to suffer one s2 hit with ap -

horrors can only cast change dicipline, not divination.
horrors get 1 warppoint, 2 at unit strength 11-15 and 3 at 16-20. they generate psychic powers at the start of the game like normal psykers but can only roll on tzeentch lore.

2d6 shots base +d6 for each additional warp point. in additon they have access to the other spells of lore of tzeentch, you roll for them like you do with psykers. making them psyker level 3 gives great benefit.

Slaanesh
sadly no named greater daemon.

Masque
75 pts
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a ld 8
may take up to hit and run. unnatural reflexes (may reroll failed invul saves)
eternal dance: at the beginning of the shooting phase you decide for wich dance she makes against a single non vehicle unit within 12"

dance of binding: the enemy has -5 WS (minimum 1) can only move d3" only d3" run and only d3" assault. also the unit can only fall back d3"

dance of death: the unit suffers as many strength 1 hits as models are in the unit. these hits have AP 2 and igore cover.

dance of dreaming: the target has -5 bs and cannot overwatch. until the next turn of the mask.

Herald of Slaanesh
45 pts
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a 4 LD 8
same psyker upgrades as nurgle as well as gifts..
presence same costs.. here are the tiers:

presence of grace : model and unit gains move through cover
presence of agility (30pts) the model and its unit have +5 on its initiative (yes you read that right)
presence of seduction. the model and its unit may reroll to hit rolls in close combat. the user always has to accept challenges or issue them. but the user of the presence decides wich character the enemy takes for the challenge.

slanesh horse. 15
chariot 30
exhalted chariot 80
Steed of slaanesh: +1 a and outflanking and acute senses. also becomes cavalry

Fiends
ws 4 bs 0 s 4 t 4 lp 3 i 6 a 3 ld 7
models that getsin contact by one or more feinds gets -5 to their initiative
they got a 12" aura that decreases enemy psykers LD by 1
35 pts a piece

Seekers
ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 lp 1 i 5 a 3 LD 7
outflank, acute senses
12 points a piece

Daemonettes
9pts
ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 5 a 2 ld 7
no longer rending

Daemon Princes
warpsmithed armor with a 3+ armorsave for 20 points.
they can be made heavy support with the corresponding greater deamon (and charakter GD) fromt he same god.

Chaos Furies
ws 3 bs 0 s 4 t 3 w 1 i 4 a 1 ld?
infantry with jumpmodule (like crisis)
Can be to khorne/nurlge/slaanesh/tzeentch

Soulgrinder
135 pts + upgrade to god needed
Comes with close combat weapon and the harvester
Harvester is now a weapon with 2 profiles...
autocannon with 6 shots
autocannon with 3 shots and skyfire
Can can get the flamer (wich is now torrent) for 20
phlegm for 30
tounge for 25 points

http://fundaemons.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-rules.html

[HERO]

OK, I don't want to freak the F out, but..

http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1361936784296.jpg

I DON'T SEE MONSTROUS CREATURE ON THIS LORD OF CHANGE

plz tell me shocktruppen is MC... (which I"m 100% sure it translates to Shocktrooper rofl)

[Learn2Eel]

Don't worry, it is a flying monstrous creature lol. Also thanks for posting up the stuff :D Would have taken me ages to do it lol.

I think some people will say "what the?" to a Lord of Change and Bloodthirster having the same Strength and Toughness.
Really, despite the early complaints, it all looks really good.

I think what we can definitely gather from all of this is that we are now a true horde army. For laughs, you could run 140 Bloodletters and a 100 point Herald at 1500 points.
Seekers are ridiculously cheap!

[Kawauso]

OK, I don't want to freak the F out, but..

http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1361936784296.jpg

I DON'T SEE MONSTROUS CREATURE ON THIS LORD OF CHANGE

plz tell me shocktruppen is MC... (which I"m 100% sure it translates to Shocktrooper rofl)

I don't speak German, but:
Einheitentyp:
Fliegende monstrose kreatur (C)

pretty clearly seems like it says it's a flying monstrous creature and also a character.

[HERO]

Don't worry, it is a flying monstrous creature lol. Also thanks for posting up the stuff :D Would have taken me ages to do it lol.

I think some people will say "what the?" to a Lord of Change and Bloodthirster having the same Strength and Toughness.
Really, despite the early complaints, it all looks really good.

I think what we can definitely gather from all of this is that we are now a true horde army. For laughs, you could run 140 Bloodletters and a 100 point Herald at 1500 points.
Seekers are ridiculously cheap!

There's a lot of stuff here that makes me go WTF..

Like why does a Lord of Change only have a 5++?
Or like you said, why do they all have the same stats except for WS?
Why does a BT have BS10?
Why would you ever take Flamers now?
Are the point cost for Seekers for real?

You can obviously say that Lesser gifts = 10, Greater = 20, Exalted = 30.
Why in gods name would you EVER take the Exalted ones and not 2x Greater, 1x Lesser? LOOK AT THEM

[Learn2Eel]

There's a lot of stuff here that makes me go WTF..

Like why does a Lord of Change only have a 5++?
Or like you said, why do they all have the same stats except for WS?
Why does a BT have BS10?
Why would you ever take Flamers now?
Are the point cost for Seekers for real?

You can obviously say that Lesser gifts = 10, Greater = 20, Exalted = 30.
Why in gods name would you EVER take the Exalted ones and not 2x Greater, 1x Lesser? LOOK AT THEM

They've simply been redesigned from the ground up. They are completely different now.
From what I can tell, every unit in the army bar Fateweaver only has a 5+ invulnerable save. That might seem bad at first, but all of our stuff that did have better invulnerable saves is both cheaper and a lot more effective.
Well, I did look and the Bloodthirster does have higher Initiative and Ballistic Skill than a Lord of Change, as well as Attacks. But yeah, they all have S/T6 except the GUO which is T7.
BS10 on the Bloodthirster is probably a fluff change to show that Khorne Daemons have great martial prowess in all forms of combat - hence the Skull Cannon is BS5. Heralds of Khorne are WS/BS7.
They were unbelievably broken before. Now they are actually just slightly over-costed harassers, as they should be. Screamers haven't changed though, except for re-rolling failed saves of 1 and adding in Daemonic Instability plus losing Eternal Warrior. Screamers sound more restrained now, but still very good.
Yep. Seekers really are that cheap. Ridiculous. Three points more than a regular Daemonette for an extra attack, Cavalry, Outflank and Acute Senses.

Agreed on the daemonic gifts. Though it is insane how we can take an AP2 at Initiative weapon that is master-crafted for 10 points on our ridiculously high Weapon Skill and Initiative Heralds :eek:
Seriously though, I can't believe my eyes on some of this stuff. I6 Khorne Heralds with WS7 that at 65 points have a S5 AP2 weapon with three attacks? 135 point Soul Grinders that make Defilers look like Pyrovores?
Get this; twenty Daemonettes, 180 points. Take a Herald of Slaanesh with the 20 point locus for re-rolls to hit at 65 points. Laugh as your 245 point unit dishes out 65 WS5+ attacks at I5+ that are Rending and re-roll to hit. Seriously.

My initial impressions.....this is the craziest codex I've ever seen. Not OP-crazy, just what the hell crazy. Not UP either. I think this may very well come out ahead of both Dark Angels and CSM meta-wise.....early impressions though, we still don't know everything about quite a few units.

By the way to answer your question on that blog Hero, yes, Fiends and Seekers have Rending due to being Slaanesh Daemons.

[HERO]

I guess that's true. A complete redesign + a TON of changes that makes old Demon players frightful and curious at the same time.

I'm probably looking too deep into these rumors. Mainly because Fiends and Seekers are not listed to have Rending, but Daemon of Slaanesh in the CSM book has: Fleet, Hatred (Khorne), Rending, and Run an additional 3" (usually D6+3").

The major disappointment is the Daemon of Tzeentch. 5++ T6 flying bird with 5 wounds that re-rolls 1s to save, alright. But it's just so weird to have a 5++ Lord of Change. No one does this, not Warriors of Chaos, not Chaos Space Marines.. but a Greater Demon of Tzeentch? It's just incredibly inconsistent and raises eyebrows sky high.

I'll save judgement until I have the book in my hand, but S4 AP4 Flamers makes me cringe, but they're dirt cheap and have the WD stats which I guess is fine. I need to know more about this Chariot of Tz though.. mainly what weapons it has.

Outflank is such a terrible rule in 6th :/ If only you could charge then Seekers would be SO good.

Edit: Fiends cost 5 more, lose S5 --> 4, A5 --> 3, but gain +1W and +1I, and..

models that getsin contact by one or more feinds gets -5 to their initiative
they got a 12" aura that decreases enemy psykers LD by 1

I guess that's literally laughing at Grey Knights in the face. Sorry Halberds, going first yo. -1 to tests.


grimoire of true names: you may use it at any time in your movement phase. the target hast to be within 24" and at least one model with the special rule daemon has to be within the unit.
is the unit a enemy it has -1 on reserve rolls. is the unit a friendly unit roll a d6. on a 1-2 the all models in the unit (except the user) with the special rule daemon suffer -1 on the reserve rolls. if you roll a 3+ all models with the rule daemon have +2 on their invulnerable saves until your next turn.

what

-------

Anyone else find it amusing that the LoC can take the staff of change for 10 points that gives him +2S and Concussive? That would give him S8, Concussive, at I6 WS6 5 attacks, going at AP2 because he's a MC + explode.

[daboarder]

I guess that's literally laughing at Grey Knights in the face. Sorry Halberds, going first yo. -1 to tests.


Psyk-out grenades

[HERO]

Psyk-out grenades

Yes, avoid the Psyk-outs :<

But hopefully they can just vanish if we roll a 11 on the Warpstorm Chart amirite?!

[Learn2Eel]

God just noticed that about the Lord of Change taking that 10 point weapon. That is ludicrous. Take a 265 point bird with the Staff and Mastery Level 3, take obligatory Tzeentch power and two Divination powers. Go to town. Absolutely poops all over the previous one from a great height.

Trust me mate, Fiends and Seekers have Fleet and Rending; it is the Daemon of Slaanesh rule, as the guy confirmed for Daemonettes.
Beasts of Slaanesh are hilarious. The Grimoire is an odd duck out, that is for sure.

With all the different stuff you can do, I think I can see why there is so much random stuff. Not because it is fun and, to a degree, cool and fluffy, but there are a lot of cheese combinations I can see springing out of this codex. The cheapness of all these units, the access to Divination for Tzeentch Daemons, the 'what the' abilities of Skarbrand, etc. This may yet be the top 6th Edition codex. Just an inkling.

[Mr Mystery]

Honestly?

Nothing there worries me over much. Sure Daemons seem to have filthy attacks, but then, they don't have much of a save. Weight of firepower will do them over a treat. T3/4? Nothing to worry about.

Just have to play keep away as best I can, and trust in my Tesla to give them a solid zapping. I'd imagine Ork and IG players are much in the same boat. Keep calm and pour on the firepower!

[Learn2Eel]

The problem for Necrons will be their 24" range. Chaos Daemons are going to outnumber you 3 to 1 most of the time too, and you need to count on the fact they won't be smart and just deep strike units like Bloodletters off of icons from fast moving units like Bloodcrushers. Not that I think Necron players will be too fazed mind you. But I think it paints a pretty picture for the codex that it is likely to give almost any army a lot of trouble if played smartly.

Seriously though, I ran some numbers on Skarbrand. Again, barring Biomancy-loaded Swarmlord, he is now the best character challenger in the entire game. Seriously. Given he gives Rage and Hatred to himself as well, you are looking at; 9 WS10 I10 S6 attacks that inflict instant death, always wound on a 2+ and re-roll to hit on the charge. Put it like this; he has a decent chance of killing Draigo before he can retaliate too, or at least severely hurting him. He will kill any Daemon Prince before they get to strike. He will murder any other Greater Daemon without a fight. Mephiston, non-Iron Arm Swarmlord, and even the four wound Eternal Warriors such as Abaddon and Logan Grimnar will simply cease to exist - they are likely to die before they can even blink. And that is on average. Granted, getting him into combat will be the tricky part. But I think smart players will know to deep strike him in off an icon on Bloodcrushers or something similar. And once he is in combat....he even butchers entire units! Tarpitting him simply won't work, not unless a big unit is involved.
Oh, and unlike almost all those other 'powerhouse characters', he will annihilate any vehicle without breaking a sweat too, whilst giving insane buffs to his fellow daemons (and to the enemy, but as I said, it helps the Daemons a lot more than most other units).

[Learn2Eel]

Hey....Phil Kelly said that guy in the White Dwarf battle report was too afraid to take a Keeper of Secrets. More like too stupid to be correct (just kidding). It is 15 points more than a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh and gets; +1 BS, +1 T (huge, no instant death from S10), +1 W, +2 I, +1 A, Preferred Enemy Eldar/Dark Eldar, and it is a mastery level 1 psyker base that usually costs the Daemon Prince +25 points. Ergo....it is ridiculously more cost-effective compared to a Daemon Prince. Bloody hell. Can't believe I'm saying this.....I am really excited about this whole codex. I seriously think it could come out ahead of the previous two by a fair margin. The only thing that might hold it back is the randomness.

There is a lot of trolling combinations I am coming up with.....

Edit: What the actual *bleep*!? 10 Seekers of Slaanesh, 120 points. Assuming none die before getting into combat and that they charge, they will do the following two things on average; against Space Marines, they will get four rending kills, and a further five wounds leading to two failed armour saves for a total of six dead Tactical Marines before they can strike back. The other thing? Those four Rending hits means a dead Carnifex before it can strike. Ridiculous. Oh, and Slaanesh happens to have anti-Overwatch options available.....as do Chaos Space Marines. Trolololo!

[DrLove42]

I'm looking forward to it as allies for my marines (and maybe one day their own force)

My friend (who already plays) is unlikely to be happy about the flamers nerf (he used them long before the WD update) or the loss of Fateweavers bubble.

I'm happy to see Juggernauts becomes Cavalry (so why aren't they that in the Marine dex?). The "return"of blue horrors makes me happy. I can see cheap Tzeentch heralds with divination (reroll to hit) joining my Havocs and Obliterators....

[Psychosplodge]

Sub-munition railgun rounds used to love horrors...

[Learn2Eel]

But dude, 20 Horrors for 180 points :D Running daemonic hordes, especially considering our Troops are still powerful, is going to be sweet! Oh, and Horrors now hitting Tau on 3s :cool:

When I get the codex.....I think I am going to go on a list building spree. I seriously can't believe how cheap the stuff we are getting is.

[Psychosplodge]

I seriously can't believe how cheap the stuff we are getting is.

Really?
So how much will 2000points cost?

[Learn2Eel]

2000 points. Aba-dabba-aba-doo!

[Mr Mystery]

Gentlemen...remember to take your salts! REMEBER TO TAKE YOUR SALTS!

[Learn2Eel]

Oh we are; still, the guy we are getting our info from did post codex pictures...so about all we can doubt is the translation. Of course though that could make a huge difference of course.

[Caitsidhe]

Given (at least in my area) that the average game is now 1850 or less, I don't see this becoming a huge horde issue. Most people don't like playing massive horde armies. Most people don't like playing against them. It isn't because they are hard to beat or broken. It is because they are slow, tedious, and often painful. I'm not certain anyone is going to be thrilled about the appearance of what amounts to a brightly colored orc army six months from now. :)

Games Workshop seems hellbent on increasing the number of models on the table so (in theory) we will buy more models. The problem is that people are doing the opposite. We have merely decreased the average size of the game because the rules for resolving things has gotten clunkier. What do you get when you add clunky + more models? You get an average increase of 1.5 to 2x the realistic time requirement to finish a game. The tournaments we have been doing at 1850 barely have time to complete their rounds.

I realize that I am talking about this from the perspective of tournaments and/or people who like their games to wrap up in about 2-3 hours each TOPS. I suppose those who are happy with 4-6 hours a game won't have an issue with it. There still seems to be a loss of interest and excitement when more than half the time you spend (which is ample) is spent moving the annoying horde armies around.

[Learn2Eel]

As long as you don't play against another horde army, it shouldn't be too bad. I'm not saying it is the best thing, but I definitely think our basic Troops are a lot better than before. They aren't all that worse - and in some cases, better - and are much, much cheaper.

[eldargal]

So, with the daemonic gift thing you can choose to take an aetherblade isntead of rolling (counts as 0)? Is that correct? And the aetherblade costs 50pts?

[Caitsidhe]

As long as you don't play against another horde army, it shouldn't be too bad. I'm not saying it is the best thing, but I definitely think our basic Troops are a lot better than before. They aren't all that worse - and in some cases, better - and are much, much cheaper.

Agreed. I don't think (at least from what we have seen so far) that Daemons got any better or worse. My concern here isn't about effectiveness at all. I think that is really impossible to rate. I'm just voicing a total disinterest in the notion of playing Daemons if they come off the line designed to be played as a hordes army. I dread games against the Fungus Mungus (orcs) because I have to pull up a chair and try to look interested (so as not to be rude) while my opponent inches the limitless brood across the table or rolls the buckets of mostly impotent shooting dice or eventually effective melee dice.

If these rumors are true (and these ring mostly true to me whereas the earlier ones rang utterly false) I see it as a loss for Daemons in my area as a non-ally faction. Nobody is going to want to field them as Daemons alone at 1850 or 1500 (also becoming VERY popular). What is likely to happen is those using the allies rules will grab choice units to bolster their real army. I imagine I wouldn't be adverse (particularly if they switch slots) to peppering up my CSM with even MORE Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons. Will I need or want the endless hordes? No.

[Learn2Eel]

@eldargal: For 40K daemons, each tier of Gift is either 10 points, 20 points, or 30 points. Depending on which you choose, you roll on the correspond random chart comprised of 6 results. The optional '0 result' is there as a pseudo-Primaris ability, much like psychic powers - if you don't like what you rolled for, you can swap it out for one of the '0 results' corresponding to that tier of gift for free. Each '0 result' has its own unique wargear to choose from, and the first two tiers of gift feature god-based weapons and an undivided weapon, whilst the third tier features more unique wargear. In essence, you can take the basic Aetherblade - the S:user AP2 Master-Crafted Specialist Melee weapon for 10 points. As you can guess, other codices could only dream of paying 10 points for such a weapon.

@Caitsidhe: I can understand that. I don't particularly like playing against horde armies myself. Mostly though, I think Daemon armies probably won't go all-out horde; whilst they will have a lot more models than most other codices, they will still have a lot of big beasties to compensate. Based on those rules, a Slaanesh army could field two blocks of 20 Daemonettes with 2 Heralds of Slaanesh with the re-rolls to hit Locus for about 500 points, meaning that they still have 1000 points left for things like 12 point Seekers, 170 point Keepers of Secrets, 155 to 260 point Daemon Princes or 35 point Fiends of Slaanesh. Sounds almost like a Tyranid army in some respects. I think though that Tzeentch Daemons will end up making great allies - it is about 65-70 points for a cheap Divination Herald with Prescience and a Tzeentch power. Pop him with a cheap five-strong squad of Horrors, keep him near your backfield units and give the gift of re-rolls to Havocs, Obliterators and the like. I just think it is great personally that I can run a lot more lesser daemons than before whilst still keeping up a high number of greater daemons and daemon princes, as well as beasts and their equivalents.

[eldargal]

So my I10 monstrous creature KoS can be AP2 without halving attacks (smash) for a grand total of 180pts? I like this codex.:rolleyes:

[DrLove42]

So my I10 monstrous creature KoS can be AP2 without halving attacks (smash) for a grand total of 180pts? I like this codex.:rolleyes:

All MCs are AP2 without halving....

[Caitsidhe]

So my I10 monstrous creature KoS can be AP2 without halving attacks (smash) for a grand total of 180pts? I like this codex.:rolleyes:

It sounds that way. I expect the KoS will appear in most CSM armies along with a minimum cheap throwaway Daemons unit. :) *And what the other guy said. You don't have to halve your attacks to get AP-2. They are AP-2 ALL THE TIME. You only half attacks to double STR.

[eldargal]

Oh right, I was forgetting it was the double strength that is extra.

[DrLove42]

So deamons as an allies is going to be hard. You only get 1 HQ....and I want Divination Heralds AND deamons.

Grumble