Template Weapons and Friendly unit

[Saint_Anger]

If a squad of 9-Flamers of Tzeentch deepstrikes from reserves and tries to use breath of chaos to the enemy that is in its range, my question is that can the flamers use the breath of chaos? Because when they come from reserve with deepstrike formation(one flamer in the center, 5-6 in the first circle, 2-3 in the outer circle), some templates will cover some of its unit. So, in this case, the all flamers in the unit cannot use breath of chaos at all? Or only those that don’t touch friendly unit can be used?

[Wildcard]

I believe you ignore models in your own squad for those purposes. Same as firing out from a transports firepoint with a flamer. Will check the rulebook pages for reference later (bit busy now)

[Wolfshade]

Certainly you ignore the tank while firing from firing points, but I do not recall there being a change to template weapons and units. I thought the restriction that the "template weapon could not be placed with any friendly units underneath it" was still in effect.

Though I don't have my rule book with me to check :(

[sangrail777]

P. 52 can't touch any of the models in the firing unit.

[Saint_Anger]

Certainly you ignore the tank while firing from firing points, but I do not recall there being a change to template weapons and units. I thought the restriction that the "template weapon could not be placed with any friendly units underneath it" was still in effect.

Though I don't have my rule book with me to check :(

The rule is still in effect. So can I fire only some of it that don't touch friendly model? or I cannot fire for all model?

[Wolfshade]

You can shoot the models which are able to place their templates in such a way that they are not touching your own, so the ones on the outer most edge of the ring will be able to fire. Careful placement for your concentric rings while deep striking will maximise the number which are able to shoot, but inevitably the first model down and the ones at "the back" of the unit will be unable to shoot.

Perhaps instead of deep striking them close to teh unit and shooting them that turn, deep strike them out of line of sight and move and shoot next turn with all of them?

Obviously, there are times when an agressive deep strike and shoot in the face is preferable other times maybe wait. I don't know just a thought.

[Saint_Anger]

You can shoot the models which are able to place their templates in such a way that they are not touching your own, so the ones on the outer most edge of the ring will be able to fire. Careful placement for your concentric rings while deep striking will maximise the number which are able to shoot, but inevitably the first model down and the ones at "the back" of the unit will be unable to shoot.

Well, it's good to here I can place some templates, but what page in the rulebook can surely confirm this?

[Wolfshade]

Sangrail suggests p. 52, I don't have my book with me.

It would be under the rules for Templates.

If you are looking for the bit where it says some can shoot and some can't I don't think it specifically does, but remember that shooting is done on a model by model basis, similiar to how some models in a unit can be in range and other models are out of range.

Nice little tactica for them is here: http://daemons40k.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/flamers-of-tzeentch-and-you.html

[Saint_Anger]

Sangrail suggests p. 52, I don't have my book with me.

It would be under the rules for Templates.

If you are looking for the bit where it says some can shoot and some can't I don't think it specifically does, but remember that shooting is done on a model by model basis, similiar to how some models in a unit can be in range and other models are out of range.

Nice little tactica for them is here: http://daemons40k.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/flamers-of-tzeentch-and-you.html

Many thanks, it's a nice tip.

[Nabterayl]

Page 52 says, "Instead of rolling To Hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the firing model and the rest of the template covers as many models in the target unit as possible, without touching
any other friendly models (including other models from the firing model's unit)." So Sangrail is correct - any model that can place its template without touching any friendly models (including those in its own unit) can fire, and those that can't cannot. The words "Instead of rolling To Hit" should remove any doubt that we're talking on a model-by-model basis (as units don't roll To Hit, only shooting models).

[lobster-overlord]

The template rule changed between 3rd and 4th. In 3rd, it was the "duck" rule. You could shoot them through your own unit, but only enemy models would be considered hit. It allowed you to fire flame throwers around the edge of your own vehicles and keep the firing unit in cover. That paid off a couple times fo rme nicely.

I miss that rule.

John M>