40K BRB verses Dark Vengence MRB

[RexScarlet]

Get the torches ready;

Warhammer 40,000 Main Rule Book or as some refer to it; the Big Rule Book (BRB).
verses
Dark Vengeance WH40K mini rulebook (miniRB?)

Note*; the players always have a choice to do whatever they want whan playing a game; pew-pew, RAW, RAI, paint, no-paint, GW, non-GW, and etc.

But this is strictly about two rulebooks that are different and should stop being confused as being the same.

1)
If you have the BRB, you are playing WH40K up-to its entirety *. (the organized sport of Baseball)

If you only have the miniRB you are ONLY playing Dark Vengeance (which is a starter/beginners game). (the basics of Baseball)
.
This also applies to Warhammer Fantasy 8e AND the newly released Hobbit Rule Books.

2)
GW FaQs do not support the miniRB only the BRB (because it is the Main RB).

3)
You do not just ignore chapters in any RB *.


So, why is there such confusion?

The BRB has several chapters, because that is how the game is intended to be played*. (Just as Baseball has an "entirety" of rules, * but you can play in a sandlot with a broomstick if you so wish.)
.
(NOTE; the miniRB does not have all the Chapters, WHY? I would argue the miniRB is a starter/reference book).
.
BRB; Rules, 41st Millennium, Miniatures Showcase, Hobby, Battles, and Appendices.

Rules; Easily explained as HOW to play, the laws and mechanics. Dark Vengeance has leaflets with some different rules. (just as Baseball has rules/laws/mechanics)
.
41st Millenium; Story, fluff, what have you. Dark Vengeance has leaflets with its own fluff. (just as Baseball has tradition and History) (how does this apply to the Game as a whole?)
.
Miniatures Showcase; Is in the BRB so the players do not confuse/try and field Eldar as Chaos Demons, and can see what colors certain figures/armies are painted. Dark Vengeance has leaflets that explain this. (this is part of the rules, just as Baseball has matching uniforms, if little johnny shows-up without socks, he is benched.)
.
Hobby; Is in the BRB to show players how they can assemble and model MOAR than just the starter Dark Vengeance figures, AND what is allowed or not allowed to be used. (just as oiling your glove and cleaning your cleats is allowed, but corked bats are not allowed.)
.
Battles; Where and how to play (just as Baseball has a field and bases arranged in a diamond)
.
Appendices; Reference for older books to get players up-to speed (baseball has rule changes; no more performance enhancing drugs, which covers more than just steroids)

This is my thought on how to end years of disagreements/arguements, good luck.

[Houghten]

I think you mean "how to start an argument."

The only rules in the BRB that are not in the MRB are clearly stated as being examples of how to make house rules for narrative games.

[RexScarlet]

You missed the point entirely.

There is more to a game than just mechanics.

MiniRB only has the mechanics. (sandlot baseball)

The BRB in its entirety is the game of 40K, not just the Rules Chapter. (organized sport of baseball)

[DrLove42]

No. Both have the Game of 40K in them.

The BRB has the hobby and background. The game is no way impaired by not knowing that, but can be enriched by it.

Using your analogy, I could watch a game of baseball, even play it without knowing what tree the bat comes from, or the history of the team

[Cpt Codpiece]

erm..... how about those of us that have been in the hobby some 20+ years.
the fluff is the fluff, i dont need to know how some design studio lackey butchers minis in supposed conversions and half RSed paint jobs.

the extra stuff in the big book i would say is more aimed towards the new players, as they dont have the history behind them to know the stuff that has gone on for the last 25 years of 40k.

now if they had necromunda style kill team rules, with a decent campaign thread in the back then cool. but alas its more of the same...... might as well be WD articles sold as 'premium' content.

as for the sheets in DV box they are there to teach complete noobs yes, but they also do not really use the rule book and the games played in the scenarios are not typical games, they are structured lessons in how the game works..... a taken by the hand gaming by numbers deal.

oh and baseball is a game played by girls in England..... called rounders. LOL (i am only half joking;))

[Houghten]

You missed the point entirely.

There is more to a game than just mechanics.

MiniRB only has the mechanics. (sandlot baseball)

The BRB in its entirety is the game of 40K, not just the Rules Chapter. (organized sport of baseball)

Boy, I'll say I missed the point entirely. Even after you've clearly stated it, I can't believe it.

[RexScarlet]

@Drlove42

Why, yes, both contain the mechanics of the game, but not both contain the rest, only one, which is the Main RB

So, just ignore the other chapters in the MAIN rulebook? (rules are not all aspects of the game, all aspects of the game ARE covered in the Main RB) (again, the miniRB is not supported by GW FaQ, and comes in a starter box).

You could watch a game of 40K and/or play it not know what provence in China the plastic came from, or the History of GW? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

[RexScarlet]

@ Cpt Codpiece I have been in the hobby for 20+ years

Dark Vengeance is called Dark Vengeance for a reason; it is WH40K Dark Vengeance, not WH40K

If you are using the contents of DV, you are playing DV with all its rules the box contains, if you are using the BRB, you are playing the game of WH40K

if you want to run withg the big dogs, you have to get off the porch?

[RexScarlet]

@houghten

remember my disclaimer above; "Note*; the players always have a choice to do whatever they want whan playing a game; pew-pew, RAW, RAI, paint, no-paint, GW, non-GW, and etc."

AND

"The BRB has several chapters, because that is how the game is intended to be played*. (Just as Baseball has an "entirety" of rules, * but you can play in a sandlot with a broomstick if you so wish.)"

If you have the miniRB, you only have part of the game...

[Cpt Codpiece]

Why, yes, both contain the mechanics of the game, but not both contain the rest, only one, which is the Main RB

So, just ignore the other chapters in the MAIN rulebook? (rules are not all aspects of the game, all aspects of the game ARE covered in the Main RB) (again, the miniRB is not supported by GW FaQ, and comes in a starter box).

You could watch a game of 40K and/or play it not know what provence in China the plastic came from, or the History of GW? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

i didnt say GW history, i said 40k history.
i know eldar from ork, squat from demiurge even.
what i dont need is ANOTHER half a hard back coffee table book of **** i already know :confused:.

however if this was content about custom DIY units and vehicles that would be another story.

i am not confused over the two formats, and i certainly didnt make a thread about it lol

[RexScarlet]

erm..... how about those of us that have been in the hobby some 20+ years.
the fluff is the fluff, i dont need to know how some design studio lackey butchers minis in supposed conversions and half RSed paint jobs.

The BRB Hobby and Showcase section settles the; painted and counts as arguements, becasue it is the Main Rule Book. Just becasue a Rule Book has a chapter titled rules, doe not mean we ignore the rest of the Rule Book

I agree about baseball, like watching paint dry...

[Houghten]

If you have the miniRB, you only have part of the game...

Yeah. The GAME part.

[Iyandagar]

It is "Vengeance" and that is all I can contribute to this bizarre topic... Thank you, and goodnight.

[RexScarlet]

i didnt say GW history, i said 40k history.
i know eldar from ork, squat from demiurge even.

How do you know? And how do you know what codex to buy when you branch out from Dark Vengence and into real WH40K?

From the BRB, it has all the information you need to play a real game of WH40K

Note; for veterans, no ned to have the BRB I agree, BUT, veterans still argue about; painted, unpainted, counts as, and etc. why? All the information needed to settle those arguements is in the BRB, but not in the miniRB.

And yes, I hate everything about the BRB; co$t, giant, hardback, heavy, and etc.

[RexScarlet]

It is "Vengeance" and that is all I can contribute to this bizarre topic... Thank you, and goodnight.

lol, ty spl ****; vengeance!

[RexScarlet]

It is "Vengeance" and that is all I can contribute to this bizarre topic... Thank you, and goodnight.

lol, ty spl ****; vengeance!

[Cpt Codpiece]

The BRB Hobby and Showcase section settles the; painted and counts as arguements, becasue it is the Main Rule Book. Just becasue a Rule Book has a chapter titled rules, doe not mean we ignore the rest of the Rule Book

I agree about baseball, like watching paint dry...


the very first rule in both versions of the book is?
the game is just that a game. have fun.

proxies and hoards of grey plastic are sadly part of the hobby, as peoples ambition often outstrips their painting time. also its fun to try new things, so proxies allow peole to try out a unit/weapon load out they may not have at hand.

the major failing point about your initial post is very evident in the new rules system.
40k is a GAME not a sport, it was redesigned to not be competative, to allow people to have fun with their plastic crack hoards, over a table be it in a dining room, garage or an organised play area hopefully with copious amounts of frothy beverages (or flat with bits in for the real ale crowd) and bacon butties/pies of varoius fillings.

a hobby section in a 'rule' book is not a requirement nor an indicator of a more enlightened end user, its simply another advert for GW's main revenue stream.......... plastic crack.


How do you know? And how do you what codex to buy when you branch out from Dark Vengence and into real WH40K?

From the BRB, it has all the information you need to play a real game of WH40K

Note; for veterans, no ned to have the BRB I agree, BUT, veterans still argue about; painted, unpainted, counts as, and etc. why? All the information needed to settle those arguements is in the BRB, but not in the miniRB.

And yes, I hate everything about the BRB; co$t, giant, hardback, heavy, and etc.

i know because i started the hobby in around 1988ish, with dabbling in the judge dread minis and space crusade.

and to reinforce my point, the big book would be aimed at the novice if they need the races pointed out.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The mini-BRB has the game, the big-BRB has the game and the hobby. They both have the same 40k game in them.

[Houghten]

How do you know? And how do you what codex to buy when you branch out from Dark Vengence and into real WH40K?
From staff members, from friends, from the pictures on the front of the codex cover. From Black Library novels and TVTropes and White Dwarves.


BUT, veterans still argue about; painted, unpainted, counts as, and etc. why? All the information needed to settle those arguements is in the BRB, but not in the miniRB.I become more and more convinced you're just trying to get a rise out of us. The closest the BRB comes to settling those arguments is "some players superstitiously believe painted models roll better" (paraphrased). There's the Most Important Rule, but that's in the lightweight rules too.

[RexScarlet]

[QUOTE=Cpt Codpiece;272033]

the major failing point about your initial post is very evident in the new rules system.
40k is a GAME not a sport, it was redesigned to not be competative, to allow people to have fun with their plastic crack hoards, over a table be it in a dining room, garage or an organised play area QUOTE]

Have fun is the goal of most games and is not the topic, also my disclaimer is that you can play however you choose; pew-pew, RAW, RAI, etc. again, not the topic.

Comparing a game to a game is not good enough? (sport does not change anything in the comparison)

How about the topic; the miniRB from DV is NOT the game of WH40K, it is the game of DV, the BRB is WH40K.

Call it beginner verses advanced? Just like if you had a Rogue Trader RB, and a Chapter Approved supplement, then you could play more than just the main game.

[RexScarlet]

@houghten

you know from being exposed to lots of marketing, you still would not know how to build/model, paint, or what codex to choose (unless you got to look at a codex before you bought it), unless you had the BRB, which goes over all those aspects of the game of WH40K that the starter miniRB DV does not.

not trying to get a rise, fresh ;)

BRB is Main RB; GW FaQ supports it, covers counts as, covers painted, covers rules. (organized game)
MiniRB from DV; not supported, does not cover anything when it comes to models, except the DV ones (sandlot game)

All the chapters are RULES, not just the rules chapter...

[RexScarlet]

have to jet for a bit

All I am saying is two things;

1) They are two different books and thus are two different games.
(or two different levels of one game if you wish?)
(sandlot verses organized)
(remember sandlot comes from Major League)

2) The BRB chapters are not ignored, as they are all part of the RB, and therefore part of the game in its entirety.
(matching uniforms, caps, gloves, cups, and cleats)

So, that being said, all questions and arguements should not occur without the BRB open, as it is the Main RB.

[Houghten]

...wouldn't know how to build or paint? 0_o

Are you serious? How can you possibly be serious? What kind of dribbling fool do you take me for?

---

And what crazy world do you live in where you don't get to look at the front cover of the codex before you buy it?

If the box says "Dark Eldar Hellions," and the book says "Dark Eldar," it's a fairly safe bet that's the book you want, not the one that says "Orks."

---

I disagree completely that all the chapters are rules. A painting guide is a recipe, not a rule. The timeline is not a rule, the background is not a set of rules, the pretty pictures are not rules. The BRB doesn't even say "Rules" on the front so why would you think everything inside is a rule?

[Eberk]

yawn...

there is 1 game and 2 books. 1 you get for free when buying the starter set (aimed at new players) and 1 you can buy if you don't want the extra models in the starter set.

The addition of the background/fluff is aimed to sell more (both the starter set and the BRB)

(I never bought the BRB of 5th and only used the miniRB but have both for 6th - and I play for more than 20 years)

case closed ???

[Popsical]

WOW! Ive just read this whole thread and... It has to be the single most feeble attempt at trolling ive ever come across lol.
Congratulations rex, how long did it take to come up with that?
Have you ever considered taking up a position in government?
That level of double dutch b0ll0cks is perfectly suited to governing a nation.

[RexScarlet]

I disagree completely that all the chapters are rules. A painting guide is a recipe, not a rule. The timeline is not a rule, the background is not a set of rules, the pretty pictures are not rules. The BRB doesn't even say "Rules" on the front so why would you think everything inside is a rule?

I believe I said how "would" you know how to paint/model, not that you did not know, and how would you know without looking "inside" a codex, which one appeals to you, oh wait, all that information is inside the BRB, which is the Main RB, not the DV mini RB.

Yes, a painting guide is a recipe, but "painting" IS part of the rules in the game, according to the BRB, in the DV beginners game miniRB it is not.

BRB stands for what? Big RULE Book.

The "Introduction" goes over what it takes to play, oh wait, that seems to include all the Chapters.

This is pretty cut and dry; rules are mechanics, as I said before, you could choose to use only the rules chapter and play with pennies and post-it-notes

[RexScarlet]

(I never bought the BRB of 5th and only used the miniRB but have both for 6th - and I play for more than 20 years)


and you never bought chapter approved, etc...

yawn

[RexScarlet]

Congratulations rex, how long did it take to come up with that?


so your thoughts on the Hobbit BRB verses miniRB? (You need the BRB to play anything other than the starter)

The Hobbit release gave me a new outlook on all the 40K arguements, especially the part about the hobby aspect not being rules, but if you use the BRB they are all part of the game as a whole, but if you use the DV miniRB, the hobby part is not part of that game.

so if your plastic hordes are on the table, you must be playing the beginners game of DV...

[Eberk]

and you never bought chapter approved, etc...

yawn
yeah, whatever...

blah, blah, blah

who cares anyway

bye

[RexScarlet]

ok back...

so where were we;

two things;

1) They are two different books and thus are two different games.
(or two different levels of one game if you wish?)
(sandlot verses organized)
(remember sandlot comes from Major League)

2) The BRB chapters are not ignored, as they are all part of the RB, and therefore part of the game in its entirety.
(matching uniforms, caps, gloves, cups, and cleats)

BRB is Main RB; GW FaQ supports it, covers counts as, covers painted, covers rules. (organized game)
MiniRB from DV; not supported by GW, does not cover anything when it comes to models, except the DV ones (sandlot game)

All the chapters are RULES, not just the rules chapter...

So, that being said, all questions and arguements should not occur without the BRB open, as it is the Main RB.

[RexScarlet]

yeah, whatever...

blah, blah, blah

who cares anyway

bye

who is the troll now? le cirque mi le dirque... yawn

[Houghten]

Yes, a painting guide is a recipe, but "painting" IS part of the rules in the game, according to the BRB
Back this up. I want the number of the page that says painting is a rule.


BRB stands for what? Big RULE Book.
That's a fan-given nickname.

[Popsical]

Houghten, why are you rising to the bait? That people have the time in their lives to spend inventing pointless conundrums that have no bearing on life at all is quite sad really. Move on folks, nothing to see here.

[RexScarlet]

[QUOTE=Houghten;272094]Back this up. I want the number of the page that says painting is a rule.QUOTE]

In BRB introduction; page xii "What you will need" "In addition to the Rulebook you are reading now..."

Not "just" a fan given nickname...The entire book is a rulebook...

Assembling and painting your figures in order to play WH40K (not the beginner game DV) is covered extensively in the BRB, which is a Rulebook in its entirety, as well as the Main Rulebook, as well as the first book released of which the DV miniRB comes from, as well as being supported by the GW FaQ, and the DV miniRB not being supported...

I do not feel time is being wasted, and again, this is a change of outlook on my part since the Hobbit dropped and both RB's are different, so it just got me thinking that both WH40K books are different...

[Archon Charybdis]

Actually, BRB stands for the Big Red Book of 5th edition, just like BGB was the Big Grey Book of 4th edition. If anything, the 6th ed book is the BYB.

I also like how your "poll" answers don't really relate to the question posed, they just restate the two "different" versions of the game you purport exist distinctly from one another.

[RexScarlet]

pointless conundrums

No paradox here, two comepletely different books. Just as WHFB 8e, and now for sure the Hobbit books...

[RexScarlet]

I also like how your "poll" answers don't really relate to the question posed, they just restate the two "different" versions of the game you purport exist distinctly from one another.

They are both rulebooks, my use of an abbr is my choice how to abbr; Big RB, DV mini RB easy distinction in my original post.

My point is that one is the Main RB (the big one) and all the chapters therein are part of the main game as a whole.

The other (the mini one that comes in the beginner starter box DV) is a different form of the main game, or can be used as a reference book for the main game, but is not a tome. (something like that)

My poll is a trick, and meant to be funny, either you agree OR you agree... Bravo to you to be the first to mention it!

My thought came about when the Hobbits two different rulebooks dropped at the same time, which was a first...

[Houghten]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Not everything in the rulebook is a rule.

Therefore, I do not accept page XII as a valid reference.

[RexScarlet]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Not everything in the rulebook is a rule.

Therefore, I do not accept page XII as a valid reference.

If the book IS a Rulebook, then the entire book, not just chapters you choose, are rules. (as I said before, you can choose to play however you choose, but that is not playing by ALL the rules.)

In the BRB there are many places that gaming and hobby are in the same sentence pg 305, pg 306.

So if you are just using the miniRB, yep, you are playing the beginners game of DV.

And if you are leaving out any rules and playing pew-pew, that is fine, but you are still not playing WH40K, you are playing sandlot baseball...

[Houghten]

I don't understand what misshapen mental processes can drive you to even try to believe that.

[dannyat2460]

Please note i have in my posetion both copys of the 6th edition rulebook

Reasons for having the BIG and as it is been referd to in this thread the full rule book

you dont have to buy the starter set
it contains the rules for 40K
it has a lot of fluffy things in it and pretty pics <main reason i got it
some info about expanding from 40k into campaigns using 40k rules
you could kill someone with it
and a few other little tid bits

Reasons for having the A5 rule book
its small and can take it to events without breaking your back < reason i have it
it comes with the DV set of models that are rather pritty
IT CONTAINS THE RULES

now theres one thing that both have in comon they both contain the rules for 40k

now to try and put it into a baseball termanoligy when 1 its an english game and 2 no one outside america other than english girls has n
any idea about baseball is very annoying but i will try to explain it how you would understand...

THIS GAME ISNT BASEBALL! STOP TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT AS BASEBALL! <and i actualy held down shift for that rather than caps lock

[RexScarlet]

Please note i have in my posetion both copys of the 6th edition rulebook

Reasons for having the BIG and as it is been referd to in this thread the full rule book

you dont have to buy the starter set
it contains the rules for 40K
it has a lot of fluffy things in it and pretty pics <main reason i got it
some info about expanding from 40k into campaigns using 40k rules
you could kill someone with it
and a few other little tid bits

Reasons for having the A5 rule book
its small and can take it to events without breaking your back < reason i have it
it comes with the DV set of models that are rather pritty
IT CONTAINS THE RULES

now theres one thing that both have in comon they both contain the rules for 40k



"The laws of the game" set ALL the rules for football in england, (just like the BRB in WH40K) so if you are kicking around a ball with some mates, you are not playing association football, you are playing something completely different.

(you are correct, the both contain the physical rules mechanics)

Law 7-17 cover "just" the physical rules for football, but there are more Laws/rules for real games

LIKE;

Law 4: The Players' Equipment (just like painted and assembled models)

[DWest]

Paging TDA; please bring the Master-crafted Banhammer with you.

[Cpt Codpiece]

i dont know what book you are reading if you think the 'hobby' section contains rules, other than suggested campaigns.

it is simply an advert for the companies pretty things (its real product, GW is a miniatures company, not a game maker).
nothing more.

next you will be saying the only marines you can play as are the ones that are shown painted or have a special character in the codex space marines, despite the fact it promotes you to create your own.

oh and do your marines have the correct insignia for company, campaign, squad, individual squad leaders and sub leaders including back banners and honours? like it is shown in codex space marines?
let me guess you have a full company of ultras with the exact marks and markings shown in the spread in codex space marines?

[RexScarlet]

i dont know what book you are reading if you think the 'hobby' section contains rules, other than suggested campaigns.

the Main RB (BRB)

again, the game of 40K has more to it than just physical rules, unless you are playing DV and using the DV miniRB, which just contains physical rules

see the soccer example above

Please, one post that shows the DV miniRB telling a player what to do after DV, when they choose to grow an army and play real WH40K?

Where is it?

All that information is in the BRB and covered in the various chapters, because ALL of the BRB is WH40K in its entirety, not just the physical rules chapter.

[Cpt Codpiece]

you assume, people need their hands held at every step of the way.

DV is indeed a starter game box, however the rules are exactly the same, i just double checked the FAQ and the mini book, the page numbers are indeed the same in both instances, so please do enlighten us on how GW do not support the mini book with FAQ and errata, showing prefrence to the large book?
like i said the sheets in DV DO NOT USE THE RULE BOOK! the rules you need are on the sheets.
the book is provided as the real game requires it, however the DV set as with all past big box core games provides you with a starting point for two armies.
the miniRB has no mention of the DV set at all by the way, only the included beginner sheets mention the basic beginner set.

if the big book and its 'chapters' is 40k in its entirety as you put it, then why do we need models, dice, rulers, terrain, objective markers and templates. surely by your logic the big book is the hobby, rather than the hobby being the hobby.
in my eyes the rules are the rules. the hobby is the rules, the gaming, the modelling, the painting and the collecting.

i have myself witnessed first time players, both this edition and previous in the GW stores i live near (newcastle and metro centre), play the gaming by numbers starter set (yay a 4+ does everything) then ask "so what else can i play as?" then spend the next hour or so talking with staff and customers soaking in the opinions and the lore/fluff to decide what they like in their soon to be army.
they did not need the hobby section of the big book to tell them what to do, they asked and looked at the minis on display, then set off on their path to damnation in the addiction of plastic crack

[Houghten]

Please, one post that shows the DV miniRB telling a player what to do after DV, when they choose to grow an army and play real WH40K?

Where is it?
Pages V and 108 tell you that you will need a Codex. Pages 44 to 49 and 78 to 87 detail several unit types not found in the box set (to say nothing of the Fortifications on pages 114 to 117), and pages 134 to 140 list relevant stats. All kinds of special rules that don't appear on the box set's models are listed on pages 33 to 43).

Oh, and there are pictures of other armies' models everywhere. They're in the rulebook, so they must be rules, right?

[dvs1]

Tried sooooooooo hard to stay out of this, but the ridicularity (yes, its not a real word) of it all screams to be silenced....or not.

Rex, yes the brb has more miscellaneous info for the hobby as a whole. No one will disagree with you that its bigger. Do you need to use it as a supreme reference guide over everything else (mrb) to play A game of 40k? No. Can you use it for what some may consider a more fulfilling game? for some, yes. What I mean to say is this argument seems very narrow viewed. It sounds like you're trying to make everyone play the game like how YOU like to play it. As mentioned before, there's 40,001 ways to play 40k. From UNpainted minis playing in a narrative campaign in a garage, to a national GT surrounded by exquisitely crafted and painted armies, to proxying the hell out of everything using quarters, cans, and books. There's no one absolute way to play. I believe that's even quoted somewhere in the BRB, lol. BUT, both said RB's contain the info needed to start rolling some dice. My SoB's still hit on a 3+ regardless of if they're painted or not. ( yes, they are fully painted )

Having said that, if the BRB works for you that's totally cool. Just don't rain on the people who do use the MRB

[DarkLink]

I didn't realize that there were 40k players so sheeplike they needed the hobby section of the BRB to tell them how to play. Heck, I didn't even know anyone actually read it. It's not like it doesn't have pretty much exactly the same stuff as the last two or three editions of rulebook. Seriously, even half the artwork is recycled.

[RexScarlet]

What I mean to say is this argument seems very narrow viewed. It sounds like you're trying to make everyone play the game like how YOU like to play it.



Again disclaimer I have said over and over;

Note*; How players choose to play; pew-pew, Tournament, RAW, RAI, paint, no-paint, GW, non-GW, and etc. is entirely up to them.

Example; you choose to play Ard Boyz style games, you are not really playing WH40K, you are playing a lesser level (like DV) THIS IS NOT A BAD THING

The/a Main Rulebook is “the law of the game” in any game and (as in English Football), the whole book, not just the physical rules chapter, and then the above “how a players choose to play” applies.

This creates “levels of play” the/a difference between a few people kicking around a ball in the yard (DV, unpainted, proxy, etc.) verses playing association football (WH40K in its entirety).

Facts; I have stated many facts throughout this post, that BRB is the Main RB (the DV miniRB is not) and that a RB in its entirety is the rules, not just the physical rules sections (Football: Law 4; players’ equipment).

The problem people are having is that they are confusing a book that was released with a starter set as being the same as a Main Rule Book, they are not the same (Hobbit especially, and WHFB8e either).

The DV miniRB comes with a beginning starter set, therefore it is not the same book, thus NOT the same game (or level of game), but this does not mean the DV miniRB cannot be used to reference physical rules while playing ANY level of game. (Just as a Football Referee may have a pocket sized rulebook while on the field)

As some have stated, there are vague hints and some references in the DV miniRB that a player can “go bigger” but in the DV miniRB there are no chapters as to how, but the how is covered extensively in the BRB chapters.

I have learned a lot during this post, pro and con, but the facts remain. (see first post)

Like it or not; painting and modeling are part of the rules of WH40K, but not part of the rules for DV.

[Houghten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[Cpt Codpiece]

Again disclaimer I have said over and over;

Note*; How players choose to play; pew-pew, Tournament, RAW, RAI, paint, no-paint, GW, non-GW, and etc. is entirely up to them.

Example; you choose to play Ard Boyz style games, you are not really playing WH40K, you are playing a lesser level (like DV) THIS IS NOT A BAD THING

The/a Main Rulebook is “the law of the game” in any game and (as in English Football), the whole book, not just the physical rules chapter, and then the above “how a players choose to play” applies.

This creates “levels of play” the/a difference between a few people kicking around a ball in the yard (DV, unpainted, proxy, etc.) verses playing association football (WH40K in its entirety).

Facts; I have stated many facts throughout this post, that BRB is the Main RB (the DV miniRB is not) and that a RB in its entirety is the rules, not just the physical rules sections (Football: Law 4; players’ equipment).

The problem people are having is that they are confusing a book that was released with a starter set as being the same as a Main Rule Book, they are not the same (Hobbit especially, and WHFB8e either).

The DV miniRB comes with a beginning starter set, therefore it is not the same book, thus NOT the same game (or level of game), but this does not mean the DV miniRB cannot be used to reference physical rules while playing ANY level of game. (Just as a Football Referee may have a pocket sized rulebook while on the field)

As some have stated, there are vague hints and some references in the DV miniRB that a player can “go bigger” but in the DV miniRB there are no chapters as to how, but the how is covered extensively in the BRB chapters.

I have learned a lot during this post, pro and con, but the facts remain. (see first post)

Like it or not; painting and modeling are part of the rules of WH40K, but not part of the rules for DV.

there is NO MENTION OF DV IN THE MINI BOOK.
THE SHEETS THAT COME WITH DV DO NOT USE THE RULEBOOK, ITS ALL ON THE SHEET.

YOU ARE FAILING TO GRASP SIMPLE CONCEPTS.
since you keep using sport, why not stick to that eh?

[Popsical]

Spot on Houghten! +1 to that buddy.

[dreadnoughtguy]

worst poll ever. You ask a question and neithor answer fit the question.

This is how it reads

Are speedboats faster or slower than cars?
A) Orange
B) Potato

worst argument starter fail ever!

[Uncle Nutsy]

Rex, you mean to tell us that the faq's released ONLY apply to one book, when both tell you how to play the game from A to Z? Because no matter how you phrase it, deny it, shift it, or play it... that's exactly what you're trying to tell us.

but you're one of those people who think they're right, no matter how many people tell you otherwise, no matter how many people prove you wrong. In other words, you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

But keep yakking. It's kind of entertaining to see how much you flail.

Oh and could you show where painting and modelling is covered in the rules section? Because by your very own logic, one would think manchester united should alter how football is played simply from the colours of their uniform. Now, before you answer, watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs)

[DarkLink]

Example; you choose to play Ard Boyz style games, you are not really playing WH40K, you are playing a lesser level (like DV) THIS IS NOT A BAD THING

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uRlNDK_Z03o/TqwNcqfvgsI/AAAAAAAAANo/Wes3uDQUSwQ/s1600/ImpliedFacepalm.jpg





This creates “levels of play” the/a difference between a few people kicking around a ball in the yard (DV, unpainted, proxy, etc.) verses playing association football (WH40K in its entirety).

http://cdn.epicski.com/1/1c/1000x500px-LL-1c63b5c4_picard-facepalm.jpg



Facts; I have stated many facts throughout this post, that BRB is the Main RB (the DV miniRB is not) and that a RB in its entirety is the rules, not just the physical rules sections (Football: Law 4; players’ equipment).

http://gabrielchapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/double-facepalm.jpg




The problem people are having is that they are confusing a book that was released with a starter set as being the same as a Main Rule Book, they are not the same (Hobbit especially, and WHFB8e either).

The DV miniRB comes with a beginning starter set, therefore it is not the same book, thus NOT the same game (or level of game), but this does not mean the DV miniRB cannot be used to reference physical rules while playing ANY level of game. (Just as a Football Referee may have a pocket sized rulebook while on the field)


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gWQaU40PH24/TQrrAq1H3sI/AAAAAAAAJ74/n1uDMSTPSec/s1600/Epic_Facepalm_by_RJTH%255B1%255D.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

No difference between the two.

When your splitting hairs, mind the atoms or you get 6 pages of nonsense.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Rex, have you read the mini rule book at all? It contains all the rules to play the game. I agree that the full rule book gives a great look at the hobby as a whole, and it takes more pains to stress the narrative nature of the game, but this is no way makes your analogy work, the BRB helps the game and encourages you to not focus so much on the rules because it has the space to do so

[Lord Krungharr]

I like all the background reading. I don't like lugging around the weight, especially at tournaments, but that is healthy for us to lift something now and then. The mini book is too small for me to read swiftly, especially with all the important details stuffed into corners in this rulebook. So I vote go with the big one.