Zombies and Quad Gun

[Lord Krungharr]

The Plague Zombie rules says they are Chaos Cultists w Fearless, FNP, Slow and Purposeful, no options, and just a close combat weapon. However it does not say they lack a BS, that is, they don't have different stats listed with a BS of 0. Nor did the little FAQ mention anything about them not having a BS, but we know their autopistols are just clubs.

So what are people's opinions of them manning a Quad Gun? I would vote yes.

[Nabterayl]

Yes, they can - you've analyzed it just right. Having a BS of 0 is not the same thing as having no ranged weapons.

[el_tigre]

Yes for now, absolutely nothing says they can't, but I imagine it'll get faq'd to no soon enough, funny as the image of zombies accidently triggering the gun to blow flyers out of the sky is.

[YorkNecromancer]

6th edition is all about narrative; the only time zombies use weapons is when the writer does so to actively subvert the "zombies are mindless" trope. RAW, yeah, we are all accustomed to the tiresome argument that that which is not forbidden is permitted... but it kinda flies in the face of the whole shambling horde thing - why would the zombies be unable to use the guns they are carrying, but somehow able to use a far more complex piece of weaponry, overriding the automated systems to take manual control? If they're too mindless to use a simple trigger, it seems unlikely they would be able to use a quad gun. So narratively it makes no sense and should thus be disallowed.

So I would argue that as it stands at the present moment, yes, the rules allow the zombies to use the gun, but as it's obviously not true to the zombie tropes the unit entry is explicitly invoking (roundly demonstrated by the fact the question needed to be asked in the first place), if a player chooses to do it, their opponent is allowed to call them on their obvious WAAC behaviour.

[dreadnoughtguy]

I can't figure out why people think they are mindless they are led by a character that can accept chalanges, doesn't sound mindless to me.

[DarkLink]

6th edition is all about narrative

Only if you want to play it that way, and even then it's irrelevant to what the rules actually say. Your preconceived notions of what zombies are and aren't capable of do not form actual rules.



if you do it, your opponent is allowed to call you on your obvious WAAC behaviour.

And if you're the sort of person who gets pissy about someone asking a legitimate question to ensure that they're doing something legal, then you're a prime example of all the worst things about the Scrub (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub), and you should seriously re-evaluate your life.

By the way, the sort of illicit WAAC behavior you're talking about would preclude this very thread. A true WAAC player, in the sense that you are using it, would simply play it like this and handwave any opponent's complaints. The OP, however, asked a genuine and honest question in an attempt to avoid breaking the rules. That is absolutely not WAAC by what seems to be your definition of the term.

[mallet_man]

let us not forget land of the dead where the zombies slowly gained intelligence and were eventually able to use automated weapons, I think rules as written its correct but from a fluff point of view it brings the funny argument of well what sort of zombies are we dealing with lol! just used them in a game against IG an they were awesome no quad gun involved though just kept marching into the gunline and kept going!

[YorkNecromancer]

Your preconceived notions of what zombies are and aren't capable of do not form actual rules.

It's not my notions. GW have said, time and again, that the rules should reflect what the model is. Also, 40K is pretty troperrific; the Zombie Cultist thing is clearly a way to allow "Night of The Living Dead"/"Left 4 Dead"/"The Walking Dead"-style zombies into 40K. Zombies aren't allowed to shoot because in films/books/comics/whatever, zombies don't think or shoot. The Codex literally states that Zombie cultists have guns but can't use them. Seriously - I've seen really serious arguments about whether running or shambling zombies are scarier. Zombies intelligent enough to use guns would be terrifying, but outside of Garth Ennis' "Crossed", I just haven't seen them (and even in "Crossed", they're not actual zombies per se). In the codex it also states the plague makes them mindless, so it's not my preconcieved notion - GW are playing the trope dead straight, and the "not allowed to shoot their guns" rules are playing to the trope too. Hence, the quad gun shoudn't be usable.

You'll also note that I said


the rules allow the zombies to use the gun

so, I'm well aware my "preconcieved notions...do not form actual rules".


The OP, however, asked a genuine and honest question in an attempt to avoid breaking the rules. That is absolutely not WAAC by what seems to be your definition of the term.

I never said anything about the OP. I've edited my original reply to better reflect my meaning. I must remember not to use the second person on the internet. I simply said that anyone who uses RAW to fire a quad gun with a horde of zombies so stupid they can't shoot the guns they are carrying, is a WAAC player. Which they are.

And calling me "scrub" won't change that.

[Lord Krungharr]

I did some reading about the Quad Gun, ie. Gun Emplacements, and that rule states it may be fired instead of their own weapon, however it does not specify what type of weapon. So I think this will probably get FAQd someday to reflect YorkNecromancer's view. But if we view it that way because of the Gun Emplacement rule (which someone on DakkaDakka brought up), then does that mean a Daemon Prince, or Lord or Champion with 2 CCW could not fire the Quad Gun? They can't drop the CCW and pull triggers? Hmmm.
And I do remember Land of the Dead well, that was the first and greatest zombie champion!

[mysterex]

I voted no for shooting. The description for plague zombies says "any guns are used strictly for the purposes of clubbing their victims to death" on that basis you can't shoot anyone with a quad gun you can only attempt to club them with it.

[YorkNecromancer]

I did some reading about the Quad Gun, ie. Gun Emplacements, and that rule states it may be fired instead of their own weapon, however it does not specify what type of weapon. So I think this will probably get FAQd someday to reflect YorkNecromancer's view. But if we view it that way because of the Gun Emplacement rule (which someone on DakkaDakka brought up), then does that mean a Daemon Prince, or Lord or Champion with 2 CCW could not fire the Quad Gun? They can't drop the CCW and pull triggers?

If Quad Guns are fired instead of the models own shooting weapon attack, then that would disallow the zombies (who cannot shoot their weapons), but allow a model like the 2CCW Chaos Champion, who simply chooses to go to battle without a gun, but can co-opt one if she stumbles across it.


The description for plague zombies says "any guns are used strictly for the purposes of clubbing their victims to death" on that basis you can't shoot anyone with a quad gun you can only attempt to club them with it.

I do like the idea of the zombies tipping the Quad Gun over as some kind of horrible improvised blugeon...