Shooting thru close combat and cover

[Yayula]

I remember from 4th edition that close combats used to "block" LoS, not being able to shoot if the direction of the shoot passed thru the combat, so in 5th i can't seem to find anything regarding this, the closest thing was on the shooting phase indicating that you must select an enemy unit that is not in close combat, as i read it a close combat now only counts as another unit which confers 4+ cover save if shot thru it, am i right?

And regarding cover saves, i know it's cover if the model is obscured from light of vision 50% or more, but i was playing yesterday with a guy who used sisters of battle and was kinda new to the 5th edition rules, so he shoots at my CSM with a melta passing thru a unit of sisters, so i roll my 4+ cover save, then i shoot at his exorcist, and he claims being obscured because my shot passes thru his sisters, i´ve played always as that infantry doesn't confer obscured to vehicles or cover save to montruos creatures, but i was curious to check it out, couldn't find anything on the rulebook, about this. I told him that for the vehicle to be in cover it needs to be 50% covered, but since his exorcist is from 3rd edition the sisters models cover 60% of the tank, i told him that the tanks aren't at scale thats why only terrain and MC are supposed to give them obscured.

[Lord Azaghul]

pg 62 on the cover thing under
Vehciles and cover - obscured targets.
It doesn't say specifically that they don't.

I was rereading this section myself the other night

I've always played it the way you mentioned - and the vehciles to seem to be designed so that infantry can't offer them cover.

[Ferro]

... as i read it a close combat now only counts as another unit which confers 4+ cover save if shot thru it, am i right?
Yes.


And regarding cover saves, i know it's cover if the model is obscured from light of vision 50% or more,
Partially correct. The 50% rule only refers to vehicles, not infantry models. Reread the section again. "Light of Vision" is a curious way to say Line of Sight.

i´ve played always as that infantry doesn't confer obscured to vehicles or cover save to montruos creatures, but i was curious to check it out, couldn't find anything on the rulebook, about this.
Look again. Anything at all (infantry, rocks, foliage, fence posts) confer a cover save if it blocks LOS. A vehicle or monstrous creature's body must be at least 50% obscured from the Point of View of the firer's eyes.

I told him that for the vehicle to be in cover it needs to be 50% covered,
Yes...

but since his exorcist is from 3rd edition the sisters models cover 60% of the tank, i told him that the tanks aren't at scale thats why only terrain and MC are supposed to give them obscured.
No. Forget your 'scale' argument.' The model is what it is, and if it's obscured it gets cover.

In 5th edition, True Line of Sight (TLOS) is king. There are no abstractions about model size/height, etc. :)

[Nabterayl]

I remember from 4th edition that close combats used to "block" LoS, not being able to shoot if the direction of the shoot passed thru the combat, so in 5th i can't seem to find anything regarding this, the closest thing was on the shooting phase indicating that you must select an enemy unit that is not in close combat, as i read it a close combat now only counts as another unit which confers 4+ cover save if shot thru it, am i right?
Yes, see page 22. Note that you do have to actually be able to see through it - it's conceivable that a big enough close combat would completely block LOS.


And regarding cover saves, i know it's cover if the model is obscured from light of vision 50% or more
No, a non-vehicle, non-monstrous creature model "in cover" if any part of its head, arms, body, or legs is obscured from line of sight. A non-vehicle, non-monstrous creature is "in cover" if its toe is obscured behind a rock. See page 21 for this "intentionally generous" rule.

A unit is "in cover" if 50% or more of its models are "in cover." To take the most ludicrous example I can think of, if a ten-man squad of infantry has the toes of five squad members obscured, the entire squad is "in cover" and thus entitled to a cover save according to the chart on page 21. Most of the time this will be a 4+ cover save. But note the chart - if the toes of five squad members were obscured by razor wire, the unit would get a 6+ cover save.


, but i was playing yesterday with a guy who used sisters of battle and was kinda new to the 5th edition rules, so he shoots at my CSM with a melta passing thru a unit of sisters, so i roll my 4+ cover save, then i shoot at his exorcist, and he claims being obscured because my shot passes thru his sisters, i´ve played always as that infantry doesn't confer obscured to vehicles or cover save to montruos creatures, but i was curious to check it out, couldn't find anything on the rulebook, about this. I told him that for the vehicle to be in cover it needs to be 50% covered, but since his exorcist is from 3rd edition the sisters models cover 60% of the tank, i told him that the tanks aren't at scale thats why only terrain and MC are supposed to give them obscured.
If 50% of a vehicle is obscured by sisters, then the vehicle is "obscured," and entitled to a cover save so long as 50% or more of the models in the vehicle's unit are also "obscured" (see page 64). Since an Exorcist is a unit of one, if 50% of the Exorcist is obscured by sisters, then the Exorcist is entitled to the "obscured" cover save of 4+. This is true no matter what the Exorcist is obscured by - models, buildings, tall grass. If his Exorcist is a little shorter than the current one but otherwise a legal model, then yeah, it's easier for him to claim the cover save.

[Abominable Plague Marine]

I find it impossibly hard to determine if a vehicle is 50% obscured by infantry models or not, generally I give 4+ if its easy enough to tell with something like a building, otherwise offer a 5+ save. To say it either gets a 4+ save or it doesnt seems rather abstract also.........

[thecactusman17]

Here is an easy way to determine LOS on any vehicle/MC when infantry models are involved:

Are there models in B2B? Y/N?

Are they in B2B with the complete facing Y/N?

Is your firing model reasonably the same size as the cover-granting models Y/N?

Is your firing model at the same height as the others (if possible, try to ignore basing--modeling for advantage is a crappy way to play)

If the immediate amount of hull covered is not instantly obvious and the answer to all four questions is "yes," there's generally a pretty good argument to be made that they should have cover against most smaller tanks like Rhinos, Chimeras, hellhounds etc.

Larger tanks like Land Raiders, Monoliths, Skimmer tanks etc. should never get a cover save unless being blocked by terrain or Monstrous creatures/walkers/other vehicles.